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RWBY: AP buffs

There is also the fact that characters have taken hits from Salem and lived, like Oscar and Jaune.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
...

Why did SilentLyfe delete the updated Low 7-B blog for Raven's storm...
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Shit my bad. We haven't been using the Maiden storms for a couple years now and I wanted to get rid of some old calcs that weren't being used. Didn't know we would eventually need them again. Then again, considering the new storm requirements I'd have to be redone again anyways.
 
SilentLyfe said:
Shit my bad. We haven't been using the Maiden storms for a couple years now and I wanted to get rid of some old calcs that weren't being used. Didn't know we would eventually need them again. Then again, considering the new storm requirements I'd have to be redone again anyways.
Click to expand...
Why delete blogs tho smh

Would you be willing to make a new one?
 
While we are waiting for the storm calc, I want to make the argument for RWBY characters having large island dura, since they can take hits from Salem.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Its not several minutes of screentime later. It is quite literally seconds in real-time.



15:41 Ozpin tells Pyrrha and Jaune to leave the building, and at 15:52 they are shown nearing the exit. Immediately after from a timeframe standpoint, at 16:19, Cinder and Ozpin have a short talk and standoff which lasts until 16:38.



Episode 12 picks up immediately after this at 1:22, with their fight lasting until 1:51. Then at 3:28 it shows Jaune and Pyrrha making it out of the building, and then the final explosion with Cinder flying up the tower at 3:44

Cinder and Ozpin's fight lasted ~30 seconds

Subtracting the 11 seconds it took for Jaune and Pyrrha to get to the exit (with a few seconds accounted for the fact that they didnt get to the door itself in the scene and thus pent a few more seconds running) It took Jaune and Pyrrha ~30 seconds to get outside while Ozpin and Cinder were fighting.

The timeframes are effectively identical. And you literally hear beat for beat the booms of Cinder and Ozpin clashing in the scene where Jaune and Pyrrha are outside.
Click to expand...

Alright, I’ll agree on the timeframe.

Now let’s get to the massive problem this causes and that was never addressed.

If your claim is that “Cinder is more powerful than the Long Memory,” then that creates an entire host of problems.

Cinder would therefore be capable of one shotting Dust Infused Hazel, and anyone weaker than Dust Infused Hazel.

This means Cinder is able to one shot and VAPORIZE Qrow in a single attack.

But Qrow is relative to Winter. Who can fight Maiden Cinder, literally trading blows and deflecting her attacks. With no Aura, Winter is able to parry blows from Cinder, and when she gets ACTUALLY HIT, she just sprays a bit of blood and gets sent flying.

There is absolutely no reasoning as to why Winter should be able to reflect attacks from someone who is capable of vaporizing her until she is nothing.

Like are we claiming that Winter is capable of vaporizing Qrow now? Or are we saying Qrow can vaporize Hazel? If Qrow is comparable to people that can vaporize Dust Infused Hazel, how the hell did he not one shot Dust Infused Hazel?

Every single instance of Maiden Powers not one shotting someone now needs to be brought into question if you’re claiming that Cinder is equal to the Long Memory. The shields from the Long Memory shouldn’t even be relative to each other outside of specific instances, so why would the shield that protected Oscar and the shield that protected Ozpin be the same?

I would assume that a function of the Long Memory’s ultimate attack would be that it can protect the user from literally dying to themselves. So a 7-A shield so Oscar and survive the explosion should not be controversial, while Ozpin’s shield would just be using enough energy as he needed.

The scaling chain inconsistencies that result from “Maidens should be able to vaporize every character in the verse in a single attack” is way too high.
WeeklyBattles said:
Basically its:

Salem and prime Ozma: 6-C/High 6-C

Long Memory: Varies, up to 7-A

Ozpin and the Maidens: Low 7-B

Everyone else: Downscales from Low 7-B

...So basically nothing changes other than Long Memory and Salem
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I agree with this.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Basically its:

Salem and prime Ozma: 6-C/High 6-C

Long Memory: Varies, up to 7-A

Ozpin and the Maidens: Low 7-B

Everyone else: Downscales from Low 7-B

...So basically nothing changes other than Long Memory and Salem
Click to expand...
My only question here is why are we scaling prime Ozpin to 6-C and assuming he got weaker each incarnation when we could simply say Salem got stronger over time?
 
Maitreya said:
My only question here is why are we scaling prime Ozpin to 6-C and assuming he got weaker each incarnation when we could simply say Salem got stronger over time?
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He actually states he got weaker over time if I’m reading the arguments correctly. Though Salem getting stronger over time should be a given as that is literally what Grimm do and she’s the oldest Grimm-like being alive.
 
Maitreya said:
My only question here is why are we scaling prime Ozpin to 6-C and assuming he got weaker each incarnation when we could simply say Salem got stronger over time?
Click to expand...
Ozpin managed to keep up with and put Cinder on the backfoot. And there is not indication that Salem has gotten stronger over time, unlike the statement where Ozpin says his magic has gotten weaker.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Alright, I’ll agree on the timeframe.

Now let’s get to the massive problem this causes and that was never addressed.

If your claim is that “Cinder is more powerful than the Long Memory,” then that creates an entire host of problems.

Cinder would therefore be capable of one shotting Dust Infused Hazel, and anyone weaker than Dust Infused Hazel.

This means Cinder is able to one shot and VAPORIZE Qrow in a single attack.

But Qrow is relative to Winter. Who can fight Maiden Cinder, literally trading blows and deflecting her attacks. With no Aura, Winter is able to parry blows from Cinder, and when she gets ACTUALLY HIT, she just sprays a bit of blood and gets sent flying.

There is absolutely no reasoning as to why Winter should be able to reflect attacks from someone who is capable of vaporizing her until she is nothing.

Like are we claiming that Winter is capable of vaporizing Qrow now? Or are we saying Qrow can vaporize Hazel? If Qrow is comparable to people that can vaporize Dust Infused Hazel, how the hell did he not one shot Dust Infused Hazel?

Every single instance of Maiden Powers not one shotting someone now needs to be brought into question if you’re claiming that Cinder is equal to the Long Memory. The shields from the Long Memory shouldn’t even be relative to each other outside of specific instances, so why would the shield that protected Oscar and the shield that protected Ozpin be the same?

I would assume that a function of the Long Memory’s ultimate attack would be that it can protect the user from literally dying to themselves. So a 7-A shield so Oscar and survive the explosion should not be controversial, while Ozpin’s shield would just be using enough energy as he needed.

The scaling chain inconsistencies that result from “Maidens should be able to vaporize every character in the verse in a single attack” is way too high.

I agree with this.
Click to expand...
So...do you want a response to this or am i to assume you got the gist due to agreeing with the updated revision i proposed?
 
CurrySenpai said:
Even so I think this can just be explained with PIS. We know Salem is stronger than these dudes but it wouldn’t be interesting to see them get obliterated in one attack.
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Characters in RWBY channel their aura through their weapons to make them as durable as they are. If Jaune's shield didn't break apart from the blast, then that would mean that he himself could tank it.
 
Someone brought up ISL; and I will note that it's not needed if people are calculating someone's entire AP feat normally. But it applies to characters surviving edge of explosions or if a human sized or smaller character is getting hit by something with a much higher cross sectional area. Since they are often too small a target to actually take a direct hit from certain things.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Someone brought up ISL; and I will note that it's not needed if people are calculating someone's entire AP feat normally. But it applies to characters surviving edge of explosions or if a human sized or smaller character is getting hit by something with a much higher cross sectional area. Since they are often too small a target to actually take a direct hit from certain things.
Click to expand...
The latter is the case with the Long Memory, as the area of the explosions is far higher than the cross sectional area of any involved.

WeeklyBattles said:
So...do you want a response to this or am i to assume you got the gist due to agreeing with the updated revision i proposed?
Click to expand...
As long as no one is scaling to Oscar’s shield that protected him from the Long Memory detonation, yes, I am ok with returning to the prior Maiden scaling chain.
 
Cire said:
Characters in RWBY channel their aura through their weapons to make them as durable as they are. If Jaune's shield didn't break apart from the blast, then that would mean that he himself could tank it.
Click to expand...
Are you claiming that Salem, going all out, the person you claim to be “The Big Bad” and therefore has reasons to scale to High 6-C because she is astronomically stronger than everyone else, is weaker than Jaune’s durability?
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Are you claiming that Salem, going all out, the person you claim to be “The Big Bad” and therefore has reasons to scale to High 6-C because she is astronomically stronger than everyone else, is weaker than Jaune’s durability?
Click to expand...
I though the Long Memory was stronger then her?
 
Cire said:
I though the Long Memory was stronger then her?
Click to expand...
Stronger than who? I’m saying that Oscar’s shield, which protected him from the Long Memory, does not scale to the shield that Ozpin failed to use against Cinder. Not only because the nature of the Long Memory means that the specific usage of it by Oscar is far higher than Ozpin’s usage, but also because the scaling issues that arise from it are too glaring.

For Salem, no one scales to her magic at all. She makes the scaling chain just as bad since, if anyone scales to her, the Long Memory feat becomes a total outlier to their durability. Ozma has gotten weaker after his incarnations, so the Maidens are not relative to Salem via him.

So no, no one is scaling to High 6-C other than Salem, and even that is shaky because she’s more open to anti-feats later down the line than others are open to positive feats.
 
So, as a summary, Salem gets upgraded to High 6-C, the 1/5 Ozma scaling is revoked, the Long Memory gets a “varies up to 7-A” for destroying Monstra and everything stays the same tier wise. The Low 7-B value the Maidens scale to will come from Raven’s storm (after it is reposted and maybe evaluated again).

Everyone in agreement?
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
So, as a summary, Salem gets upgraded to High 6-C, the 1/5 Ozma scaling is revoked, the Long Memory gets a “varies up to 7-A” for destroying Monstra and everything stays the same tier wise. The Low 7-B value the Maidens scale to will come from Raven’s storm (after it is reposted and maybe evaluated again).

Everyone in agreement?
Click to expand...
I agree with this.
 
I think someone should put the updating ratings and justifications into a sandbox so it can be judged properly.

Because I'm still not positive on the High 6-C calc directly scaling to the rest of her magic/stats.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
So, as a summary, Salem gets upgraded to High 6-C, the 1/5 Ozma scaling is revoked, the Long Memory gets a “varies up to 7-A” for destroying Monstra and everything stays the same tier wise. The Low 7-B value the Maidens scale to will come from Raven’s storm (after it is reposted and maybe evaluated again).

Everyone in agreement?
Click to expand...
What’s 7-B again? Small City?
 
Might want still want to get the whole thing recalced due to possible new calcing techniuqes or something.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
So, as a summary, Salem gets upgraded to High 6-C, the 1/5 Ozma scaling is revoked, the Long Memory gets a “varies up to 7-A” for destroying Monstra and everything stays the same tier wise. The Low 7-B value the Maidens scale to will come from Raven’s storm (after it is reposted and maybe evaluated again).

Everyone in agreement?
Click to expand...
Yes
 
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