Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[BestMGQScalerEver]

As someone who has seen Chase's antics he says this stuff for shock value and jokes. He isn't a pedophile and has put out his distaste for them as well.

 

[KLOL506]

While I do think Chase definitely sounds like a total creeper, and I do vaguely recall a time we strictly warned him for harassing a Japanese speaker and saying some racists comments against them. Though that was years ago and don't remember exact details. I actually recall that this was like brought up before years ago and the proposal to permaban him was rejected as brought up by Agnaa and I think Mr._Bambu also commented. But "C***y" (I am censoring myself just to be safe as I know it sounds close to a banned word but it probably isn't) is just a general term for women; it's not specifically anything to do with children. Also, a lot of people get reported here for having a "Lolicon fetish" and allegedly being pedophiles based on that. But I have spoke with people who are more familiar with that than I am, and they agree that Lolita is nothing more than an art/fashion that involve adult female characters dressing up like schoolgirls. I don't support this fetish and do think it is legit creepy, but it's not the same as being a pedophile or child predator and it is not our job to dictate what people are into offsite. And the "Rape" comments are commonly seen as jokes of poor taste and it's again not our job to judge offsite comments like that.

I will let other staff members comment and I won't be surprised if Chase has some dark/creepy intentions. And may have seen him do problematic things before, but based on the album and what it ties into our offsite rules, I don't think it's considered a violation of our site standards.

You did not just say that about the c word DDM

 

[Deagonx]

Discord is a cesspool of ironic comedy

I think this is true and kind of the headline here, and I think the content of these messages can make the discussion very touchy, because it's easy to for the conversation to transpose back and forth between "were these messages acceptable" vs. "to what extent should discord degen humor be used for bans on-site?" when I think it's clear that no one is arguing that the messages were okay or that they wouldn't be banned if said here.

 

[Lonkitt]

Except these are offsite comments that you have to be with the person daily to know the context of. Discord is a cesspool of ironic comedy and using these things as their actual view on things without knowing the context is extremely dumb.

This is an incredibly poor excuse. He has a plethora of totally disgusting comments, and you’re excusing it as “oh! Just fun and memes!”

This isn’t something to joke about in the first place

 

[CloverDragon03]

If he said N word with hard R or the R word to their face, it is ban worthy. Just not if he said it behind their back. But that should have been specific in the report.

I'll just respond to this now since you're in favor of the permaban, the screenshot shows he did say the n word with the hard r directly to them

 

[Darksmash]

This is an incredibly poor excuse. He has a plethora of totally disgusting comments, and you’re excusing it as “oh! Just fun and memes!”

This isn’t something to joke about in the first place

You will be banning half of the whole website if you took everyone's discord comments seriously.

 

[Lonkitt]

You will be banning half of the whole website if you took everyone's discord comments seriously.

If half of our users’ comments looked like this? Then I’m all for that. Your arguments really aren’t a good look for yourself or Chase

 

[Darksmash]

If half of our users’ comments looked like this? Then I’m all for that. Your arguments really aren’t a good look for yourself or Chase

What if I get you a list of people that have used the n word and n word with hard r on discord? Will all of them be bannable?

 

[Damage3245]

I'm curious to see if the reported user has anything at all to say on his defense.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

It's not so much about "protecting" them, rather, it's a question of whether or not their behavior off-site is relevant to the wiki in the first place. I'll be the first to say that the example of the user who continued to harass firestorm after being banned here was relevant, but I'm not entirely persuaded of this. It's certainly very gross and I think Chase needs to mature quite a bit.

If you refuse to stop someone saying the hard-r, say they want to rape c*nnies (for context, they refer to small girls in this instance, so there is no “it just means woman”), over and over, that’s tolerance. Does this wiki not pride itself on so called reliable statistics, and having a respectable community within the rules? What kind of reputation do you set when you let someone with these ideas and comments on the wiki freely roaming?

Edit: Imgur is updated. This absolutely does not refer to “woman” in any context, he makes his preference ABUNDANTLY CLEAR.

 

[Lonkitt]

What if I get you a list of people that have used the n word and n word with hard r on discord? Will all of them be bannable?

Hell yeah

If you’re implying it’s fine for people to use the n word commonly, again, not a great look for yourself

 

[Lonkitt]

If you refuse to stop someone saying the hard-r, say they want to rape c*nnies (for context, they refer to small girls in this instance, so there is no “it just means woman”), over and over, that’s tolerance. Does this wiki not pride itself on so called reliable statistics, and having a respectable community within the rules? What kind of reputation do you set when you let someone with these ideas and comments on the wiki freely roaming?

Edit: Imgur is updated. This absolutely does not refer to “woman” in any context, he makes his preference ABUNDANTLY CLEAR.

This is damning evidence, yep

 

[LordTracer]

I’m 100% in favor of a permaban here, I don’t know why this discussion is even being entertained.

 

[Deagonx]

If you refuse to stop someone saying ... over and over, that’s tolerance.

To be clear, it's not about allowing it here (this is a VSBW staff discussion thread, not a global morality police thread), it's about determining whether or not we should be concerning ourselves with off-site behavior that has nothing to do with VSBW in the first place, and that isn't connected to on-site problematic behavior.

If you’re implying it’s fine for people to use the n word commonly, again, not a great look for yourself

I think it's pretty clear that he is not implying that it any way, rather, pointing out that this policy -- if applied site-wide -- would result in a lot of bans for users that are otherwise perfectly well behaved here due to objectionable humor on discord, which is a pretty common thing. I agree, I always found it gross and offputting as well, but a discussion does need to be had about clarifying off-site rules regardless.

 

[ShionAH]

I'm curious to see if the reported user has anything at all to say on his defense.

I messaged them here so we just gotta wait or permaban them without even waiting (The better option tbh, they seem very weird)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Guys, we don't need the RVR to be getting spammed for the Umpteenth time in a row. Also, some people initially took what I said out of context and while I admit I spoke too soon, I have posted another comment sharing my thoughts and later said some of the other reasons should have been collected in the initial report. @Chasekilleen also should be pinged to be notified about his report and the higher up staff should decide from here.

 

[Lonkitt]

I think it's pretty clear that he is not implying that it any way, rather, pointing out that this policy -- if applied site-wide -- would result in a lot of bans for users that are otherwise perfectly well behaved here due to objectionable humor on discord, which is a pretty common thing. I agree, I always found it gross and offputting as well, but a discussion does need to be had about clarifying off-site rules regardless.

Just because it’s common doesn’t mean it’s right

The excuse that “oh on discord people use racial slurs all the time, so it’s fine” is so silly

 

[Damage3245]

The context is that rape jokes and racism are "funny" and "ironic" to this person

Come on now

I'm in favor of a ban for the user that has been reported, but having a dark sense of humor off-site alone isn't grounds for punishment. What the user has done is a lot worse than that, but "jokes" aren't bannable. Or at least they shouldn't be, off-site.

 

[Deagonx]

Just because it’s common doesn’t mean it’s right

The excuse that “oh on discord people use racial slurs all the time, so it’s fine” is so silly

Maybe you are responding to the wrong comment, but I did not say or imply in any way that I thought it was okay, and I'd appreciate if you would focus on what I am saying.

 

[Crabwhale]

Anyway, as for my take on this situation.

I will be completely honest and say that I am a proponent of comedy being pushed as far as it possibly can be. Dark humor, hell pitch black comedy is by and large alright by me. But there has to be a method to the madness that tells you the person isn't this way a hundred percent of the time.

It's just like the act like being an asshole ironically: fine if you do it 15% of the time or something akin to that, but if it's all the goddamn time then that starts telling me a bit about yourself.

Similarly, if this person is talking about rape on a consistent basis, that uh has some unfortunate implications about their character.

 

[Lonkitt]

Maybe you are responding to the wrong comment, but I did not say or imply in any way that I thought it was okay, and I'd appreciate if you would focus on what I am saying.

I did read your comment, and that was my follow up. I was letting you know I understood the implications and voiced my thoughts on it

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I will be completely honest and say that I am a proponent of comedy being pushed as far as it possibly can be. Dark humor, hell pitch black comedy is by and large alright by me. But there has to be a method to the madness that tells you the person isn't this way a hundred percent of the time.

Exactly that. But there’s a difference between liking morbid humor, and then this.

 

[Deagonx]

I was letting you know I understood the implications and voiced my thoughts on it

Okay, then let me be very clear that you did not understand the implications, because I was not implying that I thought it was okay. So I hope moving forward we are clear that nothing I said meant that at all.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm in favor of a ban for the user that has been reported, but having a dark sense of humor off-site alone isn't grounds for punishment. What the user has done is a lot worse than that, but "jokes" aren't bannable. Or at least they shouldn't be, off-site.

I disagree. When that humor is "lol rape and racism funny," a line seriously needs to be drawn

 

[Planck69]

Banning people for dark humour is insanely asinine. I'm with Crab when I say dark or objectionable humour in and of itself isn't some metric of a person's morality or character whatsoever and pearl clutching gets us nowhere.

That said, if all a person talks about or posts is such content or comments then it starts becoming very, very objectionable. All I'll add to this.

 

[Deagonx]

But there’s a difference between liking morbid humor, and then this.

I don't disagree, but to Clover's point:

When that humor is "lol rape and racism funny," a line seriously needs to be drawn

This is true, a line does need to be drawn, but we have to be clear and precise about what that line is. It's clear that our rules for how people conduct themselves here, and how people conduct themselves off-site, are very different things. If our approach is that a certain level of degeneracy off-site constitutes a perma-ban here, then we should have a discussion about where that line should be.

 

[Lonkitt]

You just gave us proof of a user using the n word with the hard r….

 

[Lonkitt]

This is true, a line does need to be drawn, but we have to be clear and precise about what that line is. It's clear that our rules for how people conduct themselves here, and how people conduct themselves off-site, are very different things. If our approach is that a certain level of degeneracy off-site constitutes a perma-ban here, then we should have a discussion about where that line should be.

Again. When we have knowledge of them acting like this, do we really want them on our site if we would ban them for doing the same stuff here? It’s like if I said “hey guys, you can’t be here if you’re racist. Oh but if you’re racist when we’re not looking, it’s fine”

 

[Darksmash]

You just gave us proof of a user using the n word with the hard r….

Yeah but I am also aware they don't mean it seriously.

 

[Deagonx]

You just gave us proof of a user using the n word with the hard r….

Well, not just a user, an admin. Do you believe Crabwhale should be demoted and/or perma-banned for using the n-word with a hard r off-site? Again, since this misunderstanding seems to crop up frequently: This is not a discussion about whether or not it's okay to do this, it's about whether or not it should be punishable on-site for off-site behavior. Certainly if he made those comments here, it'd be a huge problem.

do we really want them on our site if we would ban them for doing the same stuff here?

It's not a matter of wanting them on the site, per se, but a matter of whether or not we should have an approach of policing off-site behavior in general, and where exactly that line is drawn. Most sites tend to have a "off-site isn't our problem" approach unless it's directly connected to something site related.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't disagree, but to Clover's point:


This is true, a line does need to be drawn, but we have to be clear and precise about what that line is. It's clear that our rules for how people conduct themselves here, and how people conduct themselves off-site, are very different things. If our approach is that a certain level of degeneracy off-site constitutes a perma-ban here, then we should have a discussion about where that line should be.

That's all well and good, because I genuinely do believe that there's a certain line to be drawn when it comes to offsite degeneracy, and that we actually need to establish what that line is

 

[Lonkitt]

Yeah but I am also aware they don't mean it seriously.

“Oh yeah, I said the n word with the hard r. But I didn’t mean it seriously!”

Uh huh

 

[Maitreya12]

Stop this. Very unproductive and a needless “whataboutism” onto the topic. This is more than just ‘saying the hard r’ and more so to do with a consistent basis of very problematic behavior. I’m also fairly certain that Quantum is ******* black my friend.

Are you really about to tell a black man he can’t say the hard r off site?

 

[Darksmash]

Well the difference is that degeneracy related to "cunnies" or "rape correction" are long running memes in weeb communities (literally join any anime/manga/VN related server and search these terms up). They are the weeb equivalent of dark humour like using the n word jokingly.

 

[Reiner04]

Well if the the n- word has been used on daily basis even if as a joke, it does tells us about a character.

 

[Deagonx]

“Oh yeah, I said the n word with the hard r. But I didn’t mean it seriously!”

Uh huh

I mean, look, if you're saying that we should have a site policy that anyone that uses a racial slur off-site should be perma banned here, certainly we can have a discussion about whether or not that should be the case, but it's important that this conversation doesn't get transposed into the entirely separate conversation of whether or not it's moral/okay to do so.

 

[Lonkitt]

Well the difference is that degeneracy related to "cunnies" or "rape correction" are long running memes in weeb communities (literally join any anime/manga/VN related server and search these terms up). They are the weeb equivalent of dark humour like using the n word jokingly.

That isn’t dark humour, that’s straight up offensive and predatory

I can’t believe people are actually defending predatory behaviour

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Stop this. Very unproductive and a needless “whataboutism” onto the topic. This is more than just ‘saying the hard r’ and more so to do with a consistent basis of very problematic behavior. I’m also fairly certain that Quantum is ******* black my friend.

Crab is white, he has sent pictures of himself in that server before.

 

[Propellus]

From a quick search here's some stuff from recently promoted moderator crabwhale. (Nothing against the guy btw. Very chill and fun. This is just to make a point on why using discord stuff is bad)


Snip

You know if you're gonna get someone demoted, you could've just done that to Human Resources.

 

[Damage3245]

There's an awful lot of non-staff users still posting about this...

Can people stop and let and let the staff discuss it?