ShionAH
He/Him- 15,002
- 3,811
Didnt see it my badThis was already addressed as he already reported himself and requested himself to be banned. So this is useless addressing this again.
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Didnt see it my badThis was already addressed as he already reported himself and requested himself to be banned. So this is useless addressing this again.
So I looked into this just to see what this is about (I looked through the message wall which took some time) and honestly I don't see where you're getting this from. It would be one thing if Geb wasn't showing anything and just making claims (which can be dismissed via hitchens razor) but he's showing evidence through recordings of him talking to these people. Can you elaborate on why it doesn't show much evidence and how? When I was shown this in Geb's server (and in dm) the guy called "ImagineBreaker" didn't sound like "Blitz." Your argument implies that you think Imagine is Blitz because "some people can sound different via voice acting" yet you have no evidence to support that it's the same voice in different tones (somebody in Geb's servers pointed this out) and the last voice sounds too different to be the same.I am aware of that upload, and also shared it to quite a few people. But it was agreed it didn't really show much evidence. And Blitz apparently sounds exactly like ImagineBreaker did in his YouTube video. Some people can sound different via voice acting, and it's not like a typical discord conversation where it is common place for people to talk over each other by accident. There is like a pause between each person speaking.
Plus, as AKM said, it isn't something that should be brought up every 6 months and it is best to trust Fandom about the Email Address overlap lists.
So I looked into this just to see what this is about (I looked through the message wall which took some time) and honestly I don't see where you're getting this from. It would be one thing if Geb wasn't showing anything and just making claims (which can be dismissed via hitchens razor) but he's showing evidence through recordings of him talking to these people. Can you elaborate on why it doesn't show much evidence and how? When I was shown this in Geb's server (and in dm) the guy called "ImagineBreaker" didn't sound like "Blitz." Your argument implies that you think Imagine is Blitz because "some people can sound different via voice acting" yet you have no evidence to support that it's the same voice in different tones (somebody in Geb's servers pointed this out) and the last voice sounds too different to be the same.
Do these honestly sound the same to you?
Can you even prove beyond reasonable doubt that ImagineBreaker is Blitz and Red? Never mind your reasoning for why he's voice acting is unclean, from what I see the reason they don't talk over each other is because they have the patience to let each other finish, you can kind of see this is how Geburah operates if you actually watch his videos (like this here: ) he doesn't really talk over people unless he feels he has to, there's a pause between speeches at some points and I don't see why these would even be inherently connected you are being unnecessarily skeptical over small details.
Something else that was pointed out was why would you trust a sketchy email list over voices? Your only defense for using them is essentially that they come from an authority and trusting authorities over explicit recorded evidence would most certainly be appeal to authority, it'd be like if a cop said he heard a gunshot when the camera and audio shows that a balloon popped. The likelihood that the recorded evidence is forged is so low it shouldn't even be considered, for Blitz he had witnesses there so it's best to go to them instead of making things up as you go along. From what I'm seeing in Antvasima's message wall is that it was found that these accounts have nothing in common within fandom and this is according to yourself so you're grasping straws here.
I'm not saying Geb should be unbanned but the points against him should at least be better than this. Your arguments hinges entirely on assumptions and claims you can't prove (and I doubt you're even sure of). As I said you yourself said that Fandom found nothing that makes him guilty of anything and that's the same authority you've been relying on through this whole case: https://community.fandom.com/wiki/M...eadId=4400000000003416005#4400000000012184828
Also I'm wondering something and that's this: Geb mentioned that he sent you confirmation emails from other emails, what did they say? (if you can reveal) because I noticed that when looking through the message wall you kind of ignored this.
I'm curious as to what your response will be to this but Geb's arguments are much better and at the very least more consistent than yours (yet again I've seen his evidence and not yours, so if you could send me it I could review it and judge who's more credible).
I know about the email list you just talked about it. What makes it so reliable? You are just saying it is without any substantial evidence. The entire problem with your claim is that Fandom themselves went back and looked and found nothing on them, I'd suggest asking again to see what they find. That is appeal to possibility DDM just because something could "possibly" be the case doesn't make it the case there are no exceptions to this. Again this is not inherently related, even in Geb's video I showed you there were rarely any overtalking and everyone were overall waiting until someone finished what they had to say, the video you posted is about 200 people being in a single voice chat (which is insane) if there is only 2-5 people in a chat then what can I say except "results may vary." Also one more thing I wanted to mention is even if they had the same email address, that doesn't necessarily mean anything if the people managing it are showcased to be different individuals altogether so the case you're trying to make is pretty much weak but that's if they did have the same email address.First of all, back in summer 2020, the Bureaucrats and Super Mod were given a list of duplicate accounts with an Email Address overlap. It is very reliable, and whether or not ZaStando, Blitz, and Red are different people or not. It does not change the fact that they had a shared Email Address back then. And anyone could easily log to their accounts to change their Email Address. Also, I'm not saying he "Needs to talk over people all the time." But people talk over each other by accident when there is more than one person in the discussion. Now if someone had a conversation like like this just for fun, I could see merit.
Remember, to try to invalidate the reliable Fandom spreadsheet is to make arguing cases for Sera Ex's family members being legit family members, or about LordAizenSama making 5 socks to get around his permaban to troll the wiki and denying those obvious facts. Which I am pretty sure @AKM sama @Promestein and @Ryukama can vouch out Spreadsheet on our long list of Email address overlaps are very reliable. Although, since @Mr._Bambu is a Super Mod now, I suppose he also can see the Google Doc if I give it to him in PM.
As for Imagine Breaker, I will it admit I don't have the hardest cases, but I do remember a time when ZaStando make an alt, accidently posted on his wall warning himself not to be making alt accounts, but later Imagine Breaker posted the exact same post word for word mere seconds after ZaStando posted it on his own wall by accident and removed it. Plus, I'm sure @Maverick_Zero_X @ShadowWarrior1999 @ShakeResounding @The_Axiom_of_Virgo and @Theuser789 have better experiences than I do and can make cases about how too similar they are.
Extras to the list? Hmmmm. Okay but do you have proof the opposite is true? Rather than assumption? You want Geb and his friends to prove they're different by either 1. Talking at the same time (which has kind of been done already in the BlitzSevenTeen recording) or 2. using webcam and showing different faces, two of which are unnecessary and probably wouldn't even change your perception of Geb and his proof in general. This is entirely up to Geb. From what I'm seeing this is going in circles and heading towards nowhere. The current state of things is in Geb's favor argument wise imo.I am not allowed to publicly share the spreadsheet because it contains confidential information on 1046 accounts, also, I don't think it's easy to add extras to the list. If anything the opposite is true and that there are more socks with an Email Address overlap that were forgotten. Also, the number of people in a chat isn't what matters, the issue is that if you truly want to prove you're different people. Showcase an example of you talking at the same time. Well, there are other methods too, you could always webcam and show that you have different faces, and make the video listed as Enlisted and Privately share it with me on Discord, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to go that far.
Nowadays, we already know Sera was found guilty of abusing multiple accounts to agree with herself. And family members sharing Email Addresses is common, but friends sharing them would only be the case if two or more of you lived in the same house hold. Sharing Email Addresses is generally considered illegal in general unless people are basically that close IRL. But hypothetically, if I had family members who were on the wiki, I would be willing to find some evidence to share privately with some of the higher up staff. Still, I don't know if you all live in the same household, and admittedly some of the stories I have heard from them directly haven't always been the most consistent. But the point still stands.
It used to be pretty easy to prove before the forum move, but this account has all their message wall threads deleted. And staff used to be able to view/restore deleted messages on their wall, but I don't think they can do that anymore. But there was a time when ZaStando27By11 posted a warning letter on their own wall, removed it, and Imagine Breaker posted the exact same message in every detail mere seconds later. I wish I could show you the evidence or restore deleted messages. But at the moment, I cannot. But I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who remembers something like that.
No, a negative would be my assertion your assertion is more a positive than a negative as it relates to something existing meanwhile my assertion supposes it doesn't so my assertion is the true negative. If you didn't hear Geb and Corrupt Demigod speaking at the same time and then Blitz speaking soon after then you are missing pretty significant details, why don't you ask Eternal and Corrupt Demigod was happened in that call? You're making this much more difficult than it needs to be. I'm trying to understand why and the more I look into it the more shady things look, you don't seem to have an actual concrete con against him, you repeat and repeat and repeat like an AI. It's not a matter of special treatment, it's a matter of innocence and Geburah has proven it meanwhile you keep trying to make up claims which incriminates him when you yourself have no proof. Lets say he somehow got the pictures of ImagineBreaker, Blitz and Red what then? Are they all guaranteed a seat back in the VSBW? Because if not then the juice just isn't worth the squeeze they're now risking their actual privacy and are vulnerable to doxxing so unless you're offering a deal you are going to be ignored and not even be taken seriously (and I wouldn't suggest doing that even if you offered to bring them back).I don't really need to prove a negative, also, the shared Email Addresses lately aren't evidence. It just means they're different now, it doesn't prove they were different upon creation nor do they prove they were different back in 2020. I saw his video and I heard no one talking at the same time, I always heard a pause between each person starting to speak. And yes, this is a circular argument which is why I feel the topic should be dropped, none of them are having their bans lifted.
Literally every cyber security class in existence tells you not to share your social media accounts with others, and more importantly. Xenoforo does not allow more than one account using the same Email Address unlike Fandom, hence why they even made a giant list of accounts with an Email Address overlap in the first place. And they shared it with us, with the sole purpose of informing us which users have been abusing multiple accounts to either agree with themselves or making sock accounts to bypass a ban. Which ZaStando, Blitz, and Red are on that list. We cannot give them special treatment.
The forum move came at a surprise, and it's not like there is enough time to archive everything. All threads before the start of the forum move where moved to this one, and there was nothing saying that message walls were going to be removed. But somehow, all messages on his wall were removed. You cannot fault the VSBW staff for not being able cover every corner. This was a Fandom staff who have set things up to make it difficult.
Also, we don't need yet another discussion to get dragged on this thread. Especially since once again, it is against the rules for regular users to bombard the RVR with the same circular arguments. And it is up to the staff to decide what is and isn't ban worthy. ZaStando, and Imagine Breaker; especially the former have both done things that are strictly ban worthy. An Imagine Breaker's case he derailed a 5-A Sonic upgrade thread by bombarding it with 1-A stuff and he self admitted that he just wanted to do it out of a vengeance against other Sonic supporters who reported ZaStando to get him banned. This is a topic that seems to get brought up constantly every 6 months or less and that is not going to change the conclusion.
If he has all of this evidence why doesn't he just show it? I can understand the email list but everything else he has said has come up without a single source especially the wall post mishap. Friends don't share emails? Are you implying that friends don't ever share emails? On no occasion? Go on quora or something and ask that you'll find someone I'm sure so that's a ridiculous idea.DDM, setting aside the books that this user is writing, the evidence you have referred to (the email list, the wall-post mishap) is absolutely damning and there is no doubt that you are correct in your suspicion. I don't know what the other users agenda is with this group, but friends don't share email address, and the idea that there was some sort of Fandom/Xenforo glitch that just-so-happened to falsely duplicate an email amongst these unrelated accounts is absolutely ludicrous and should be dismissed entirely.
Negative claims are statements that assert the non-existence or exclusion of something. Negative claims are assumed to be true so long as no evidence is presented to prove the claim false. If the negative is the spreadsheet making a mistake then the claim is true especially since Fandom already confirmed he ain't guilty: https://community.fandom.com/wiki/M...eadId=4400000000003416005#4400000000012184828. He did create other socks but it wasn't to bypass his ban according to him: https://vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violations-reports-67.80135/post-2733928 it was rather to explain that he didn't create those other accounts and that he merely created those accounts to make it clear that the people impersonating him weren't him (I actually did a quick search around the website to find this out), you know what you should do? Bring in instances of him using socks to deceive people and bypass the ban and not simply warning people of falsehoods. That brings up an issue because if he's willing to admit to using socks then I think it's fair game to trust him when he says that those accounts are not him.Actually, the negative in this context is the Spreadsheet making a mistake. Until proven that they made a mistake, and Fandom literally did have access to check these lists, it is the assumption that it is all reliable information. Also, excluding Blitz, Red, or Imagine, ZaStando has clearly made other socks to bypass his ban including ZaStandoByThe11, ZaStandoBoi (The one with an Email Address overlap with Red and Blitz), and many others he openly admitted to. Also, he was banned for 3-6 months before the incident of harassing ShadowWarrior and kept at it despite being warned. Also, the webcam was only a mentioned as a possible method, and if they proved they weren't the same guy. It wouldn't quite get ZaStando unbanned, but I would have seen something for just maybe a few of his friends. And again, I wasn't suggesting that, but simply mentioning it as one possible method.
Also, even if you haven't taken a cybersecurity class, it is still mandatory to be reading TOS or the basic social media advice before joining any social media platform. The "Do not give out any personal information" is one of those basic guidelines as is sharing passwords to others. In this world, it is common place for even the closest of friends to betray one another. Hence why there is such a sensitive rule about shared Email addresses on this forum. Not to mention, we already had to deal with a lot of users abusing multiple accounts to agree with themselves. Look at all the instances we had to deal with Misaka Mikoto, Jonathan Lighter, Mckmal, ect.
Again, one cannot expect all staff members to have 100% perfect recollection of everything that went on. The forum move has already destroyed the evidence and it wasn't anything anyone was expecting to be something needed to be archived. So there is that. Still, if you saw the wall on Antvasima's message wall, the other evidence of ZaStando's other actions are already quite self evident. Not just the ShadowWarrior harassment, but also telling other people to kill themselves. It doesn't matter if it was another wiki, but suicide encouragement on any Fandom platform is worth a permanent global block from all Fandom owned wikis. It's basically the most self evident way to get permabanned from in the first place. He was also globally blocked across Fandom one time for saying some homophobic slurs and Imagine Breaker also got permabanned shortly afterward when he tried to talk to the same Fandom staff who blocked ZaStando.
Also, there are a lot of people who have payed attention to how ZaStando27 and ImagineBreaker have behaved on the wiki and on Discord servers. And people more familiar with them them me such as Maverick and ShadowWarrior are ones who said that there was some pretty damning evidence of being the same guy. Also, you admitted you understand the Spreadsheet example and why I can't show that, but the evidence is still there. But still, there are a long list of common tropes of people being socks such as joining immediately after one was permabanned, making the exact same arguments or debating for the common goals, having the exact same speech patterns and/or OPs and blogs being the same structure, and the list goes on. If applying those "Razors in debating" is your primary argument against me, then those are razors too.
Anyway, I think this topic has already been discussed in too long detail and it should be concluded at this point. Not to mention a conversation on your wall combined with how confrontational you are with the staff on the RVR from a user who seems too new to know how to post lengthy posts with such advocacy for a permabanned user are all things that make me even more suspicious about your antics.
I never said to show that, I'm concerned about the other claims DDM has made without sources but I'll drop this.We obviously cannot publicly show the email addresses of over a thousand members, and Medeus seems to have a considerably better memory than I do. This argument should preferably be dropped now.
Absolutely in support of Milly on this. No matter what the user’s contributions have been, it doesn’t justify somebody with this kind of character being on our site. Permaban is the best way to goReporting @Chasekilleen.
Album speaks for itself. I do not care that this is off-site, there is no way that this is even remotely excusable.
I did contribute by saying I agree with a permaban.@Artorimachi_Meteoraft if you’re not going to contribute to the discussion at all don’t comment, you’re just wasting space.
Either way this looks like a permaban to me.
Edit: the album has more, just in case someone wanted to attempt the “maybe it’s just a joke” defense. There’s one image I couldn’t even save because I’m in class rn. Look for yourselves.Reporting @Chasekilleen.
Album speaks for itself. I do not care that this is off-site, there is no way that this is even remotely excusable.
I think this is an important misconception to clear up, not just for you but for other users as well. You should only be commenting if you are the accused party or if you have helpful information to provide. This isn't the place to be offering agrees/disagrees with user bans, in the future please refrain from commenting on matters that you aren't involved in.I did contribute by saying I agree with a permaban.
Alright @Deagonx i’ll keep that in mind next time I decide to be on here again.I think this is an important misconception to clear up, not just for you but for other users as well. You should only be commenting if you are the accused party or if you have helpful information to provide. This isn't the place to be offering agrees/disagrees with user bans, in the future please refrain from commenting on matters that you aren't involved in.
This message is strike two. I'm keeping track.Damn it one less Chinese left on the site
Chase is giving Chinese like me and other Chinese a bad name/Rep.
I think Chase’s intentions are VERY CLEAR. I really don’t see why this shouldn’t be treated with a permaban. It’s clear what he’s communicating, which is straight up predatory behaviour, along with racism thrown inWhile I do think Chase definitely sounds like a total creeper, and I do vaguely recall a time we strictly warned him for harassing a Japanese speaker and saying some racists comments against them. Though that was years ago and don't remember exact details. I actually recall that this was like brought up before years ago and the proposal to permaban him was rejected as brought up by Agnaa and I think Mr._Bambu also commented. But "C***y" (I am censoring myself just to be safe as I know it sounds close to a banned word but it probably isn't) is just a general term for women; it's not specifically anything to do with children. Also, a lot of people get reported here for having a "Lolicon fetish" and allegedly being pedophiles based on that. But I have spoke with people who are more familiar with that than I am, and they agree that Lolita is nothing more than an art/fashion that involve adult female characters dressing up like schoolgirls. I don't support this fetish and do think it is legit creepy, but it's not the same as being a pedophile or child predator and it is not our job to dictate what people are into offsite. And the "Rape" comments are commonly seen as jokes of poor taste and it's again not our job to judge offsite comments like that.
I will let other staff members comment and I won't be surprised if Chase has some dark/creepy intentions. And may have seen him do problematic things before, but based on the album and what it ties into our offsite rules, I don't think it's considered a violation of our site standards.
So him calling people the hard-r offsite, and saying he wants to rape them is not a violation? At what point does off-site standards become protecting legitimate racists and degenerates?I will let other staff members comment and I won't be surprised if Chase has some dark/creepy intentions. And may have seen him do problematic things before, but based on the album and what it ties into our offsite rules, I don't think it's considered a violation of our site standards.
He is. I didn’t think I had to add more images to the Imgur, but I got 5 minutes till I’m outta class. I can’t even save half of the images sent because I’d look like the freak.I dunno DDM, this feels like pretty good ******' reason to me. Bonus points if he!s like this all the time.
To be clear, lolita (the fashion movement) and loli (the pedophile **** genre) are two different things that should not be equated. The latter is always a sexual depiction of underaged girls and is pedophilia, simple as. The former has no sexual connotations, so it's quite clear that this guy isn't just uh, enthusiastic about japanese fashion movements.While I do think Chase definitely sounds like a total creeper, and I do vaguely recall a time we strictly warned him for harassing a Japanese speaker and saying some racists comments against them. Though that was years ago and don't remember exact details. I actually recall that this was like brought up before years ago and the proposal to permaban him was rejected as brought up by Agnaa and I think Mr._Bambu also commented. But "C***y" (I am censoring myself just to be safe as I know it sounds close to a banned word but it probably isn't) is just a general term for women; it's not specifically anything to do with children. Also, a lot of people get reported here for having a "Lolicon fetish" and allegedly being pedophiles based on that. But I have spoke with people who are more familiar with that than I am, and they agree that Lolita is nothing more than an art/fashion that involve adult female characters dressing up like schoolgirls. I don't support this fetish and do think it is legit creepy, but it's not the same as being a pedophile or child predator and it is not our job to dictate what people are into offsite. And the "Rape" comments are commonly seen as jokes of poor taste and it's again not our job to judge offsite comments like that.
I will let other staff members comment and I won't be surprised if Chase has some dark/creepy intentions. And may have seen him do problematic things before, but based on the album and what it ties into our offsite rules, I don't think it's considered a violation of our site standards.
It's not so much about "protecting" them, rather, it's a question of whether or not their behavior off-site is relevant to the wiki in the first place. I'll be the first to say that the example of the user who continued to harass firestorm off-site after being banned here was relevant, but I'm not entirely persuaded of this. It's certainly very gross and I think Chase needs to mature quite a bit, but perhaps a more direct conversation needs to be had -- entirely removed from Chase or anyone in particular -- about how exactly we intend to police off-site behavior.So him calling people the hard-r offsite, and saying he wants to rape them is not a violation? At what point does off-site standards become protecting legitimate racists and degenerates?
All fiction Battle Wiki and it was made in poor taste right after chase denied some evidence in a nasuverse "upgrade" threadI've known Chase for a few years now, not super close to him but we've had friendly interactions and I've been on a few discord servers with him.
Upfront, I agree, the messages are very weird/creepy and if anything remotely like that was said here, I'd immediately advocate for a permaban. With that said, one thing that I've noticed as a result of being invited to a hodge-podge of Discord servers connected to these communities is that there is a strong undercurrent/persistent fascination with shock value humor. Racist remarks, dark humor, et cetera.
If the decision is made that this type of behavior off-site is justification for a ban here, I suppose I don't feel strongly enough about it to stand in the way, but there is something that strikes me as a bit "off" about gathering screenshots of someone off-site engaging in poor-taste degenerate humor and using it to ban them here in absentia of any clearly problematic behavior on-site. It'd be one thing if we thought he saw him harassing people/women, or if there were some genuine suspicion of him circulating illegal images, but as it stands I don't see how this is, on it's face, something that the wiki should involve itself with in the first place.
It's not so much about "protecting" them, rather, it's a question of whether or not their behavior off-site is relevant to the wiki in the first place. I'll be the first to say that the example of the user who continued to harass firestorm off-site after being banned here was relevant, but I'm not entirely persuaded of this. It's certainly very gross and I think Chase needs to mature quite a bit, but perhaps a more direct conversation needs to be had -- entirely removed from Chase or anyone in particular -- about how exactly we intend to police off-site behavior.
I would like to ask, where are these messages from? The official VSBW server or somewhere else?
There is no official VS Discord. Even the staff server is strictly unofficial, de jure.I would like to ask, where are these messages from? The official VSBW server or somewhere else?
I genuinely do not care. At some point, the "it's just a joke" excuse can't save youThis is kinda being blown out of proportions.
"Cunnies" and "rape correction" are long running memes(albeit extremely weird) in weeb communities that people say ironically 95% of the times. Chase does it so often that you have to be mentally slow to not realize that he knows that it gets reactions out of people and so he stays in character.
What does cunnies means exactly?
Can you both not derail? It's filling up the threadcute and funny...
just google it
Quick correction, loli in of itself isnt really pedophilic, just a term for a cute ( not in the sexual way) short woman/female child character.To be clear, lolita (the fashion movement) and loli (the pedophile **** genre) are two different things that should not be equated. The latter is always a sexual depiction of underaged girls and is pedophilia, simple as. The former has no sexual connotations, so it's quite clear that this guy isn't just uh, enthusiastic about japanese fashion movements.
We have to have at least some standards on who we allow here, and I ******* hope people see how "i love raping underage girls" is ******* intolerable and should not be allowed within miles of this community, or any community.
Were R words ever considered that hard here? I think I've even seen ppl joking about it on site.So him calling people the hard-r offsite, and saying he wants to rape them is not a violation? At what point does off-site standards become protecting legitimate racists and degenerates?
Except these are offsite comments that you have to be with the person daily to know the context of. Discord is a cesspool of ironic comedy and using these things as their actual view on things without knowing the context is extremely dumb.I genuinely do not care. At some point, the "it's just a joke" excuse can't save you
If he said N word with hard R or the R word to their face, it is ban worthy. Just not if he said it behind their back. But that should have been specific in the report.So him calling people the hard-r offsite, and saying he wants to rape them is not a violation? At what point does off-site standards become protecting legitimate racists and degenerates?
I am in the Discord server where I was pinged, and they were talking about him. Yes, I saw more scans and now on board with a permaban, but what sd I said is that those should have been specified more in the initial report.I dunno DDM, this feels like pretty good ******' reason to me. Bonus points if he!s like this all the time.