Rikudou Madara Uciha vs 7th Hokage (8/11/0)

[UchihaSlayer96]

It's so lame for a vs match to take place and characters aren't using their full power (when we know 100% they can do so) because of stupidity on a plot level. Like why even have the match?

I don't mind allowing Naruto to use out of character moves and tactics, but are you going to extend the same courtesy to Madara?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I don't mind allowing Naruto to use out of character moves and tactics, but are you going to extend the same courtesy to Madara?

That was what I was thinking throughout the match. Why is Madara not allowed to use feats from previous keys while New Era Naruto is allowed.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

That was what I was thinking throughout the match. Why is Madara not allowed to use feats from previous keys while New Era Naruto is allowed.

Exactly!

 

[Galvino]

I don't remember personally not allowing Madara to do stuff he clearly can do, only thing I argued against was aoe IT without the moon.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I don't remember personally not allowing Madara to do stuff he clearly can do, only thing I argued against was aoe IT without the moon.

I guess IT without the Moon would just have range limited to the users eye sight range instead of the planetary range provided by reflecting it off the moon

 

[WrongIdea21]

Yeah, I think This would be count as Inconclusive match with 5C Hokage Naruto Rating on the profile.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So you agree that using genjutsu is in character for him.
You also admit that it's something he's been able to do with an inferior Dojutsu.
I think we've said all we needed to, and can just let people come to their own conclusions on this one.

Him acting stupidly once or twice would be reasonable for us to brush aside as simple PIS and plot. But him ALWAYS acting that way? Nah, that's just his standard tactics at that point. Is it influenced by bad writing? Absolutely, but everything in Boruto is badly written, so we might as well ignore it all then?
I'm personally against giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying that he'll pull out his Teen self's tactics and creativity when he's never showcased the willingness or tendency to use in character.
If you feel otherwise, that's fine. Again, I feel like it's something we can let the other voters come to their personal conclusions on.

He didn't teleport it inside Madara lol. He switched places with his sword when Madara was already rushing towards him, and Madara simply ran into the blade and got stabbed. Sasuke can't teleport anything into anyone. That's not how his ability works.

I personally think that's just the norm for Boruto, but to each their own I suppose.

Prove he can use it (with EMS) on Naruto and Kurama at the same time, or the whole point is moot.

Naruto's tactics IN GENERAL is to spam shadow clones. And I wouldn't say everything in Boruto is badly written, but the power scaling definitely is. The site ignores the Kage being Otstsuki level, so why not ignore the plot nerf to Naruto's versatility?

Oh hey you're right. I've been thinking all these times that an unnerfed Sasuke would solo 99% of fiction by teleporting his sword into their brain lol.

Speaking of Boruto, what will Madara do about Baryon Mode?

I don't mind allowing Naruto to use out of character moves and tactics, but are you going to extend the same courtesy to Madara?

It's not out of character though. Madara can use moves and tactics he used in previous forms, but not stuff he's never done before.

Yeah, I think This would be count as Inconclusive match with 5C Hokage Naruto Rating on the profile.

Are you sure bout that? Is there a site standard for battles who's votes difference becomes less than 3 after the 24 hour grace period and there's no objective debunk, just disagreement of the evidence?

 

[WrongIdea21]

Are you sure bout that? Is there a site standard for battles who's votes difference becomes less than 3 after the 24 hour grace period and there's no objective debunk, just disagreement of the evidence?

The AP Scaling Chain can't be used Since That have not Applied on his Profile bro, and Those Argument has been counted Invalid before 24 Grace periode. Or shall we wait For CRT applies to his profile? At least 2 people here vote Naruto For his AP Gap wich is Doesn't get accepted yet and its would be considered to invalid vote.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The AP Scaling Chain can't be used Since That have not Applied on his Profile bro, and Those Argument has been counted Invalid before 24 Grace periode. Or shall we wait For CRT applies to his profile? At least 2 people here vote Naruto For his AP Gap wich is Doesn't get accepted yet and its would be considered to invalid vote.

Either way you look at it, Baryon Mode Naruto has a large AP advantage, so those votes would still be valid that way.

 

[Galvino]

Shouldn't boil release just make Naruto stronger than Madara anyway? Though I suppose Madara can probably do that too, not sure.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Either way you look at it, Baryon Mode Naruto has a large AP advantage, so those votes would still be valid that way.

Yes, but the profile didn't Applied that yet, so..

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Shouldn't boil release just make Naruto stronger than Madara anyway? Though I suppose Madara can probably do that too, not sure.

He doesn't have their cooperation which is what Naruto needed to ask them for the power

Yes, but the profile didn't Applied that yet, so..

He is At least 5-C, for being stronger than Isshiki, who is considered far more powerful than Jigen, who easily overpowered Naruto and Sasuke. That's a pretty big AP gap.

 

[WrongIdea21]

He is At least 5-C, for being stronger than Isshiki, who is considered far more powerful than Jigen, who easily overpowered Naruto and Sasuke. That's a pretty big AP gap.

have Atleast Rating means His AP bigger than just Normal Rating? No, its implying his 5C its the lower cap, if there's has Higher Rating then Fine, but its not.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Prove he can use it (with EMS) on Naruto and Kurama at the same time, or the whole point is moot.

You really want me to prove that he can do something he's already done with an inferior Dojutsu? Man, that's gonna be a tough one!

Naruto's tactics IN GENERAL is to spam shadow clones. And I wouldn't say everything in Boruto is badly written, but the power scaling definitely is. The site ignores the Kage being Otstsuki level, so why not ignore the plot nerf to Naruto's versatility?

It doesn't ignore them scaling, it just considers it an outlier. (Which might change soon, but that's besides the point, and I personally have no stake in the matter tbh)
Naruto's in character move set in Boruto is the opposite of what an outlier is, since that's how he always fights now.

Oh hey you're right. I've been thinking all these times that an unnerfed Sasuke would solo 99% of fiction by teleporting his sword into their brain lol.

LMFAO!

Speaking of Boruto, what will Madara do about Baryon Mode?

Personally, I don't see him using it at all. It's an absolute final resort, which he used against someone immensely stronger than himself. He knew he had no hope of beating Isshiki, and that he was going to die anyway, so he didn't think twice about giving up his life.
Madara is more versatile, but he's not really stronger than Naruto, just on par, so I don't see Naruto being forced into that form here.

On the off chance that he does use it, I think Madara can simply outlast it. The AP gap isn't wide enough for Naruto to just destroy Madara beyond repair or anything, so his regeneration will allow him to outlast BM's extremely short time limit. His life-force absorption is just useless due to Madara's immortality.

It's not out of character though. Madara can use moves and tactics he used in previous forms, but not stuff he's never done before.

Something that a character consistently does not do is considered out of character in my book, but in any case, I've already said my piece on this.
Fair enough on the Madara point.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You really want me to prove that he can do something he's already done with an inferior Dojutsu? Man, that's gonna be a tough one!

It doesn't ignore them scaling, it just considers it an outlier. (Which might change soon, but that's besides the point, and I personally have no stake in the matter tbh)
Naruto's in character move set in Boruto is the opposite of what an outlier is, since that's how he always fights now.


LMFAO!

Personally, I don't see him using it at all. It's an absolute final resort, which he used against someone immensely stronger than himself. He knew he had no hope of beating Isshiki, and that he was going to die anyway, so he didn't think twice about giving up his life.
Madara is more versatile, but he's not really stronger than Naruto, just on par, so I don't see Naruto being forced into that form here.

On the off chance that he does use it, I think Madara can simply outlast it. The AP gap isn't wide enough for Naruto to just destroy Madara beyond repair or anything, so his regeneration will allow him to outlast BM's extremely short time limit. His life-force absorption is just useless due to Madara's immortality.

Something that a character consistently does not do is considered out of character in my book, but in any case, I've already said my piece on this.
Fair enough on the Madara point.

uh...he only did it separately.

Not really sure why without plot holding him back Naruto wouldn't use his normal moveset, but alright

Yeahhhhhh...

But I mean if Naruto can't beat Madara normally, he might resort to it.

I mean...Baryon Mode Naruto>Isshiki>>Partial Otsutsuki Jigen>>Karma Seal Jigen>SPSM Naruto~Madara. Baryon Mode Naruto>>>>>>Madara. Madara's doubly screwed if SPSM Naruto is considered equal in speed to Madara but Baryon Mode specifically being a boost focused on speed and strength makes speed unequalized. Not sure how that works.

Well, alrighty then.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

have Atleast Rating means His AP bigger than just Normal Rating? No, its implying his 5C its the lower cap, if there's has Higher Rating then Fine, but its not.

It's an ambiguous upper cap, so it can be argued as an AP stomp.

 

[WrongIdea21]

It's an ambiguous upper cap, so it can be argued as an AP stomp.

I'll reply this Tomorrow, now my battery is Low, and I'm going to off.

 

[Slacjow]

Madara is better in every single department but he somehow loses this battle.
Huh.
What are the votes?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Madara is better in every single department but he somehow loses this battle.
Huh.
What are the votes?

I think either 11-9 or 10-9, I believe someone changed their vote from Naruto to Madara.

Is he tho? Baryon Mode kinda wrecks him...and 5000 clone bombardment that even pressured Kaguya. Asura avatar and true tailed beast rasenshuriken...Naruto has quite a lot to put Madara down.

 

[Slacjow]

Is he tho? Baryon Mode kinda wrecks him...and 5000 clone bombardment that even pressured Kaguya. Asura avatar and true tailed beast rasenshuriken...Naruto has quite a lot to put Madara down.

First you have to decide, if it is Baryon Mode or regular SPSM.
If it's Baryon Mode, Madara just outlasts, Naruto can't use Ninjutsu, so, no clones or anything, he will eventually die, Madara will either regenerate from the damage, or he will just keep his distance.

If it's SPSM, Adult Naruto doesn't make 5000 clones, if he makes 5000 clones, Madara makes 5000 clones, he won't be an idiot as to fight so many clones alone, considering he knows the jutsu, genins know it.
Asura Avatar was never used in his Adult form, so pointless to discuss it.
TBBRS can be absorbed or avoided, or blocked, Naruto and Madara are relative in power, so no one shots.

Naruto has nothing that can help him put Madara down, no power advantage, no hax advantage, no speed advantage.
When it comes to power they are roughly equal, when it comes to hax, Madara eclipses him, heck, the battle is over as soon as Madara looks at Naruto, IT GG.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Is he tho? Baryon Mode kinda wrecks him

Madara has the stamina and Regen to survive Baryon Naruto.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

First you have to decide, if it is Baryon Mode or regular SPSM.
If it's Baryon Mode, Madara just outlasts, Naruto can't use Ninjutsu, so, no clones or anything, he will eventually die, Madara will either regenerate from the damage, or he will just keep his distance.

If it's SPSM, Adult Naruto doesn't make 5000 clones, if he makes 5000 clones, Madara makes 5000 clones, he won't be an idiot as to fight so many clones alone, considering he knows the jutsu, genins know it.
Asura Avatar was never used in his Adult form, so pointless to discuss it.
TBBRS can be absorbed or avoided, or blocked, Naruto and Madara are relative in power, so no one shots.

Naruto has nothing that can help him put Madara down, no power advantage, no hax advantage, no speed advantage.
When it comes to power they are roughly equal, when it comes to hax, Madara eclipses him, heck, the battle is over as soon as Madara looks at Naruto, IT GG.

It's Hokage Naruto, meaning he can go into Baryon Mode if he's pressured

Adult Naruto can and will if not plot nerfed. And Madara doesn't make 5000 clones, he's never made more than 25.

It just requires all the world's nature energy, so he can still do it.

He can have clones restrain Madara's arms so he can't absorb it.

Madara doesn't IT solo in character.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Madara has the stamina and Regen to survive Baryon Naruto.

He has low-mid regen, he's not gonna recover from the power of those blows with that big an AP advantage. They'll obliterate him.

 

[Galvino]

If it's Baryon Mode, Madara just outlasts, Naruto can't use Ninjutsu, so, no clones or anything, he will eventually die, Madara will either regenerate from the damage, or he will just keep his distance.

Baryon Mode makes Naruto comparable or equal to Isshiki who is at least equal to Kaguya who is way above Madara. Naruto would destroy Madara the same way Guy almost did, but this time would finish the job and wouldn't have the stamina problem Guy had.

Madara has the stamina and Regen to survive Baryon Naruto.

As for regen, Madara confirmed Guy almost killed him and so, if Guy had more stamina, he certainly would have killed Madara. So Naruto in Baryon Mode, who does have more stamina than Guy, would destroy Madara before he does run of stamina and power.

 

[Galvino]

Madara doesn't IT solo in character.

I would probably avoid the in character argument because then the others will say adult Naruto wouldn't use 1000 clones in character or something.

 

[MrKerf]

Adult Naruto wouldn’t use 1000 clones in character (or something).

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Baryon Mode makes Naruto comparable or equal to Isshiki who is at least equal to Kaguya who is way above Madara.

we dont accept Isshiki as being above Kaguya on the site, also your correct it will end up like Might Guy vs Madara, but Madara will Regen while Naruto loses steam.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What is naruto doing about the infinite tsukuyomi though? Destroying the moon?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

He has low-mid regen, he's not gonna recover from the power of those blows with that big an AP advantage. They'll obliterate him.

Naruto can only punch, at best his going to smash Madara's face in and break his bones.

 

[Slacjow]

It's Hokage Naruto, meaning he can go into Baryon Mode if he's pressured

I don't think this is allowed in battles.

Adult Naruto can and will if not plot nerfed. And Madara doesn't make 5000 clones, he's never made more than 25.

25 wood clones as an Edo Tensei each of which used Susanoo.
If not plot nerfed Juubi Jin Madara would make 1000 shadow clones each with Susanoo, Limbo with Susanoo...

It just requires all the world's nature energy, so he can still do it.

It doesn't require all of the world's nature energy, just the area.
If Naruto sucks the natural energy of the entire planet it will turn into wasteland, that's what happens to worlds Ootsutsuki drain.

He can have clones restrain Madara's arms so he can't absorb it.

Em, Susanoo, Shinra Tensei, Limbo substitution, Madara's own clones, Genjutsu Naruto's clones, TSB shield, Light Fang...

Madara doesn't IT solo in character.

You don't know that, at that point Madara had Rinnesharingan, there's no reason he won't use it.

 

[Galvino]

I don't think this is allowed in battles.

Why not?

25 wood clones as an Edo Tensei each of which used Susanoo.
If not plot nerfed Juubi Jin Madara would make 1000 shadow clones each with Susanoo, Limbo with Susanoo...

They each didn't use perfect susano though, which they would need to in order to stand a chance against Naruto's clones. There's no evidence for Madara's clones using the perfect version of a susano. Meanwhile, we know Naruto's clones (at least like 5 or something) can use Kurama avatars.

You don't know that, at that point Madara had Rinnesharingan, there's no reason he won't use it.

My argument against that is we don't know for sure with definitive proof that IT without the moon is aoe. Not as far as anyone has shown anyway.

 

[MrKerf]

It’s actually very in character for him to use IT, come to think of it.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I would probably avoid the in character argument because then the others will say adult Naruto wouldn't use 1000 clones in character or something.

Naruto will use many clones in character, Madara only did it for a game, never when fighting serious.

we dont accept Isshiki as being above Kaguya on the site, also your correct it will end up like Might Guy vs Madara, but Madara will Regen while loses steam.

OH BOY. Aren't Adult Naruto and Teen Naruto accepted as comparable while Partial Otsutsuki Jigen stomped them, letalone Jigen, whereas Kaguya struggled? I mean come on. There's also "Likely stronger than the rest of the Ōtsutsuki clan," on his profile, and that includes Kaguya. And Guy and Madara are more comparable than Madara and Baryon Mode Naruto, plus Baryon Mode can dish out attacks that will do as much damage to Madara as Night Guy the whole time

What is naruto doing about the infinite tsukuyomi though? Destroying the moon?

Fly to him and stop him from doing it or close his eyes

Naruto can only punch, at best his going to smash Madara's face in and break his bones.

proof he can recover from his brain being blown in?

I don't think this is allowed in battles.

25 wood clones as an Edo Tensei each of which used Susanoo.
If not plot nerfed Juubi Jin Madara would make 1000 shadow clones each with Susanoo, Limbo with Susanoo...

It doesn't require all of the world's nature energy, just the area.
If Naruto sucks the natural energy of the entire planet it will turn into wasteland, that's what happens to worlds Ootsutsuki drain.

Em, Susanoo, Shinra Tensei, Limbo substitution, Madara's own clones, Genjutsu Naruto's clones, TSB shield, Light Fang...

You don't know that, at that point Madara had Rinnesharingan, there's no reason he won't use it.

The battle is Rikudou Madara vs 7th Hokage, it doesn't say anything about Naruto's form, so yes he can use it.

And Naruto can make Kurama avatar clones.

Difference between removing a plot nerf and being not in character at all. And what says he can make 1000 clones and what says the limbo clones can make susanoos?

Are you sure about that? The site accepts it as absorbing all nature energy left on the planet.

What's Em? And for susanoo the clones can do Kurama Avatar and hold down the perfect susanoo, limbo sub could work but will leave one of his limbo clones restrained giving Naruto an advantage. Madara can't make clones without weaving handsigns and his arms are being restrained, he'd have to genjutsu them before the rasenshurikens hit him which would hit him real fast and that's assuming the genjutsu works, which might not as Rinnegan Sasuke couldn't just put Naruto in a genjutsu. And do you really think a TSO shield is gonna hold out against 9 tailed beast rasenshurikens? Light fang would be dodged.

He likes to enjoy his battles.

It’s actually very in character for him to use IT, come to think of it.

On the whole planet, but not on one person in a battle. We don't even know if he can use it on one person or if the rinne sharingan is some weird ability that only works when reflected on the moon.

 

[Galvino]

we dont accept Isshiki as being above Kaguya on the site, also your correct it will end up like Might Guy vs Madara, but Madara will Regen while Naruto loses steam.

I didn't say Ishhiki was above Kaguya, all I said was he's at least equal to her and that Kaguya is way above Madara. Baryon Mode Naruto is way above Guy anyway, and Guy almost killed Madara, he left him with like half his body. Imagine what Naruto would do, he would destroy Madara to the point where he can't regen. He's not literally immortal, if he gets hurt enough, Madara is gonna die.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I didn't say Ishhiki was above Kaguya, all I said was he's at least equal to her and that Kaguya is way above Madara. Baryon Mode Naruto is way above Guy anyway, and Guy almost killed Madara, he left him with like half his body. Imagine what Naruto would do, he would destroy Madara to the point where he can't regen. He's not literally immortal, if he gets hurt enough, Madara is gonna die.

the Madara that Guy fought is like 6-A. This isn't the same Madara.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Fly to him and stop him from doing it or close his eyes

Madara thinks and the infinite tsukuyomi is initiated. So what is naruto gonna do then? I'm pretty sure the infinite tsukuyomi effects everyone of the planet regardless of what they do, unless they have a rinnegan like sasuke, but naruto doesn't have that, let's say that he doesn't lose if he has his eyes closed, then is he gonna fight madara the entire time without vision? And madara can do izanami to win, it's instant gg too if he can't beat naruto hand to hand.

 

[MrKerf]

I am pretty sure he can’t use Izanami.

 

[Galvino]

the Madara that Guy fought is like 6-A. This isn't the same Madara.

You're right, but what I'm saying is that the Madara we're arguing about is equal to Naruto because his limbo clones were equal to Naruto's clones. Okay, so on that basis, if this same Naruto goes into Baryon Mode, he would be at least equal to Kaguya and so he would be way above Madara and would kill him in the same way Guy almost did but in this situation, Naruto would succeed.

 

[Galvino]

Madara thinks and the infinite tsukuyomi is initiated. So what is naruto gonna do then? I'm pretty sure the infinite tsukuyomi effects everyone of the planet regardless of what they do, unless they have a rinnegan like sasuke, but naruto doesn't have that, let's say that he doesn't lose if he has his eyes closed, then is he gonna fight madara the entire time without vision? And madara can do izanami to win, it's instant gg too if he can't beat naruto hand to hand.

Dude, for Madara to use the moon, it took a whole set up of launching his limbo clones and several asteroids to distract Naruto and Sasuke and then fly up to the sky to do it. Naruto would make hundreds of clones and then jump him in this scenario since he's not protecting anyone this time.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Dude, for Madara to use the moon, it took a whole set up of launching his limbo clones and several asteroids to distract Naruto and Sasuke and then fly up to the sky to do it. Naruto would make hundreds of clones and then jump him in this scenario since he's not protecting anyone this time.

That's true, but then madara can just use it like regular genjutsu.