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Puella Magi Discussion Thread XI or I: The Eternal Story

I'm bored, so I made this. Have some Madomeme.

4y3jiv.jpg
 
Random Yep, thanks for catching that. I've updated it to class 10.

Beast I see. If I do some Suzune Magica girls, I'll probably need some of the more recent Magia Record translations if you can find them.

I haven't started with Magia Record yet, it's been a bit of a slow process, especially since I'm going back to the source material for many of them to add anything we missed. (Like Chocolate factory Kyoko).

Also bruh

Velox I'd be proud lol

EDIT:

Something I forgot to bring up is that my Ui page is ready to go, but I want to know if I'm missing anything before I publish it. (Other than updating the Notable Attacks section)

And if anyone is free, could they help me list down the abilities for minor uwasa? This would rather help Nemu's page a lot.

Finally, we still need a calc guy to check Boxwood's feat (Could have some effects on the scaling in Magia Record). Which Calc Staff should I ask?
 
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Well once Nemu's page has the minor uwasa blog finished, I think you'll find her to be a great summoner for matches.

Ui's page will soon be published too, so that is some 5-B matches you can make.
 
I can't say much about Ui's profile since I haven't even finished the main story part 1, I should probably starts finishing it soon. But I do love the fact you refers Alina as "someone special" though.

I found this, hope this could help.

 
How is her magical girl form working in the profile? it seems to combine her eve projections with her normal self afters she rescued, which wouldn't work since after chapter 10 she's a normal magical girl?

edit this, class 25 lifting strength for riz? the witch seems comparable in size to big ben's bell
 
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You're right, I'll probably have to split them up. Or more likely remove Eve projections entirely, since I'm pretty sure they can't fight. That said, would that give Eve Time Stop Resist since it still works in Homura's time stop, or just her ability?

Well, Big Ben's bell is pretty huge, we'd have to get more info to be sure (Especially since Big Ben bell already is pretty close to baseline).
 
Unsure, maybe but hesitant on her having resistance since we never see it used on her

From these images riz is able to stand on the head of the butterfly and she's 168cm tall, which would make it much bigger than big ben's bell which is 2.29m tall
 
I wonder what the Japanese fanbase will think about Ashley coming to JP after the death of EN.
 
I'll probably just write it down as time stop resistance when it comes to Eve's Illusion Manip.

Huh. Though Big Ben's bell would be bigger. I would say even Class 50 is a safe bet if thats the case.
 
Tart and elisa should also have resistance to magnetism manip, since their sword and gun are created by pernelle

And speaking of tart's sword, since she's 7-a for being restricted by it, wouldn't her magia record key be 7-a since she's using it?
Edit her lifting strength also needs to be updated

Edit ages for the tart magica girls that i could find the birth year for (their age will be listed at the time of 1431)
Tart = 19
Riz = 20
Melissa = 17
Elisa = 18
Pernelle = 111
Isabeau = 61
 
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Can’t wait for th Ashley profile. As for their reaction to Ashley, many people seem to love her. There’s been a lot of cute fanart circulating since her release, and people have slapped her in their all slot for maximum speed during grinding hours.
 
Leafbladie said:
Can’t wait for th Ashley profile. As for their reaction to Ashley, many people seem to love her. There’s been a lot of cute fanart circulating since her release, and people have slapped her in their all slot for maximum speed during grinding hours.
Click to expand...
Some former na server players seems quite disappointed (some even complained) that Ashley now speaks Japanese though.
 
Beast_Zero_Gudako said:
Some former na server players seems quite disappointed (some even complained) that Ashley now speaks Japanese though.
Click to expand...
I’m a bit disappointed they didn’t let her speak primarily English, but much better than the alternative of not having her at all. Most of the people on Reddit have been posting tons of memes celebrating Ashely’s return in my experience,
 
Even though she is not speaking english anymore, Ashley is STILL special in a way.

She is literally the only unit with 4 same disks in the game.
 
Soeaking of metaphors, since SD was talking about those.

That reminds me that Akuma Homura should still in part be The Nutcracker Witch, if not still The Nutcracker Witch altogether, just having gained sentience within her old body. She splits Madoka from the Law of Cycles, and even shatters her own Soul Gem with her teeth, so it’s pretty obvious The Nutcracker Witch and its tendencies are still present.
 
Not sure, aside from looking very different and having massive stat changes, Akuma Homura also has the Dark Orb, which is definitely not a grief seed like Homulily would have.
 
SomebodyData said:
Not sure, aside from looking very different and having massive stat changes, Akuma Homura also has the Dark Orb, which is definitely not a grief seed like Homulily would have.
Click to expand...
Isabeau would like to have a word.

It’s possible for Witches to look like humans. And despite being wished to be human again, she still remained a Witch internally, just one with a better sense of self consciousness, a human appearance, and a greater amount of power than before. (Sound familiar?)

If anything, since Madoka wasn’t able to stop her from turning into a Witch in the first place (which was how her wish is supposed to work), it could be argued that her using powers on someone who already become a Witch would result in the exact same outcome.

Kyubey even talks about the chick unable to break its shell when describing how Homura had become a Witch without her body transforming, whille Isabeau’s body is referred to as an empty shell.
 
I mean, Isabeau retained her regular human form and witch forms; Akuma Homura got a new one and hasn't shown her witch form. Not to mention the Dark Orb is a kinda red flag that this ain't the same.

That's a bit of an oversimplification, considering how big of a jump Isabeau and Akuma Homura have.

I don't think anyone really understands what entailed in the last few minutes of Rebellion, so it seems kinda like pushing it.

Wouldn't the chick metaphor go against you? The difference between an empty shell and a chick stuck inside is pretty big, nvm that Kyubey said this while Homura was Homulily, not Akuma Homura.
 
They’re not the exact same, but it seems like a similar principle is at play.

The Dark Orb really just seems to be her shattered soul gem reformed to contain the Law of Cycles within it. Mind you, the shattering of a Soul Gem should mark some kind of transformation into a Witch. Even when Ultimate Madoka’s Soul Gem shattered, we saw Ultimate Gretchen pop out from it. Madoka just seems seems to have the power to prevent even herself from turning into a Witch.

Also, Isabeua’s “human body” is described as an empty shell, but her true Witch form is still contained within it. And puppeteered by her Witch form. Like, that’s why you can still see her body planted atop her witch form. It was still inside her, just like how I think Nutcracker Witch is still inside Homura.

As for whether or not Homura has a Witch form, well, why would she want to let her Witch form out?
 
We'd need more evidence before saying anything.

The Dark Orb was described by Homura to be filled with love, don't think it was stated to be containing the LoC.

That just seems like an assumption based on how Isabeau's witch form came out from underneath Isabeau.

I mean, in Homura's case specifically, she has no choice. The nutcracker witch is suicidal and is actively trying to kill itself.
 
The pink spool in the scene where Homura becomes a Witch and a Demon is supposed to represent The Law of Cycles. We see it earlier in the film when her familiars kick it, rejecting it, after she discovered she became a Witch.

This is supposed to represent her rejection of savlation through Madoka. How she is committed to die here.

Later, we see the Pink Spool of thread when Homura becomes a Demon. Her shattered Soul Gem reforming around it to become the Dark Orb.

in the production note, it’s said that Madoka’s power are sealed within her earcuff, which is just her Dark Orb transformed, much like the Magical Girl rings: https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Puella...ovie:_Rebellion_Official_Guidebook_"Only_You"

The first time we see it, it’s obviously not the real Law of Cycles, just how Homura perceives it. But the latter one, when she becomes a Demon, is the real law of cycles, and that’s what she captured.

Nutcracker witch is suicidal
Click to expand...

Two responses to this.

1. The reason the Nutcracker Witch is suicidal is because she’s the broken nutcracker, the one who failed Madoka, and viewed her death as the best way to keeo Madoka safe. But now she’s no longer broken now, so this is rather irrelevant.

2. I think she still actually does want to die though. Considering the final scene of the movie is literally Homura falling off a cliff. It’s just that she can’t die, because now she believes has to live in order to guarantee Madoka the life she deserves.
 
Yeah, we know her powers are there but the LoC is not. Specifically, I think Homura said to Sayaka she only took the small portion that was Madoka (and by extension, her powers) but the LoC is still otherwise out there.

1. Fair
2. Also fair
 
I mean, the Law of Cycles is one of Madoka’s powers, so wouldn’t see the issue.

Yes, she tore off a piece, but she never directly stated what she did with the rest. In fact, the only thing she mentioned was splitting off Madoka and all her memories from the Law of Cycles, not her powers. So the natural assumption there would be that‘s how her powers were severed from her.

The pink spool of thread is meant to represent The Law of Cycles, as I mentioned with it being kicked away earlier, signaling Homura’s reiection of that method of salvation. Like, if you think it’s meant to be something else, I could understand your rejection of it, but if the answer is, “just don’t think about it, it could mean anything”, that feels a bit lazy.

Not saying you’re doing that though, just to be clear.
 
Sayaka states in the beginning that Homura ripped off a piece of The Law of Cycles, she’s not commenting on whether or not Homura took the whole thing. So the point about Homura having the rest of the LoC within her Dark Orb wouldn’t be rebuked by this.

Homura even says the piece she ripped off was the piece that used to be Madoka before she ceased to exist, no mention of her powers. What I assume you’re trying to argue then is that Homura ripped off the piece that used to be Madoka, but Madoka as a Magical Girl, thus she sealed away her Magical Girl powers in her Dark Orb.

But that raises the question, why would she need to do this? Why not just rip out Madoka as a human?

In fact, when we see her ripped from the Law of Cycles, when she’s talking ahout being ripped in two, we see her as ordinary girl and Ultimate Madoka with her eyes dulled out. Implying that’s the Law of Cycles that remained after Madoka had been torn out from it. And that the Madoka torn out from it was just plain old Madoka.

We even see that Ultimate Madoka be swallowed by Homura’s despair and love along with the rest of the universe, so why wouldn’t it also be contained by the Dark Orb?

Mind you, I’m not stating that being contained by the Dark Orb would limit it’s effect on the world. All of Homura’s love and despair seemed to cover the entire universe, so the law of cycles would still be in effect in this case.
 
The powers and memories of a crystallized magical girl are one and the same.
 
SomebodyData said:
The powers and memories of a crystallized magical girl are one and the same.
Click to expand...
Alright, I typed up another explanation of the scene, but decided to delete it in favor of this.

Homura’s a crystalized Magical Girl, right?

She knows the powers when split from a person can manifest themselves as a separate entity an reunite with them.

The Law of Cycles is Madoka’s power. We see it split from her by Homura, and even left with the exact same appearance as Ultimate Madoka.

Thus is the Law of Cycles reunites with Madoka, she will regain her memories and purpose.

So why wouldn’t Homura seal the Law of Cycles within her Dark Orb to prevent this?

I can only think of 2 explanations

1. She wasn’t strong enough to do so.

2. Doing so would bring back the World of Witches.

1 cannot be true, because we see her leftover Law of Cycles be completely enveloped by Homura’s love and despair. So strength shouldn’t be the issue.

While 2 might be possible, as Homura wouldn’t want the Witches to be brought back, I find that highly unlikely. Homura possessing the crystalization of Law of Cycles shouldn’t prevent it from doing its duty as an auto purification system. Because it still did its job while it was a part of Ultimate Madoka.

Remember, the Dark Orb was only reformed from her Soul Gem, and she herself only transformed into a Devil, after itndid so around the Pink Spool of Thread.

Again, something that is pointedly associated with the Law of Cycles.
 
Again there are too many assumptions here for it to be acceptable for the page.

We don't know much of Homura's new universe or why / what Homura did or what she really is. We don't even know if Homura's currently remembers the Wraith Arc which would throw away your whole post.

Also what are you talking about the pink pool around the dark orb? Those were probably blood cells considering the next scene later showed blood veins.
 

The pink spool of thread first appears here. It is kicked by the Clara Dolls with a sense of disdain. Earlier in the film, the Clara Dolls are shown throwing tomatoes at the statue of Madokami, with a similar sense of disdain. As pink is a color associated only with Madoka, the idea of threads tying Madoka to a fate greater than her individual self, and the spool of thread itself looks like a wheel (which Law of the Wheel would be another valid translation of 円環の理, which literally means The Circle Theory). I can only interpret it based on this context as a rejection of the Law of Cycles, Madoka's powers, the salvation she offers all Magical Girls.



In this video, at 2:19 we again see the thread fall after Homura's love and despair swallow the universe, while in the process of being rewritten.

Then at 2:45 we see her shattered Soul Gem reform itself around the Spool of Thread to become the Dark Orb.

So again, the first appearance of the thread is metaphorical. I don't doubt that, but the second appearance should be it as the actual Law of Cycles, Madoka's powers.

Again, this is the only time we see something being trapped within the Dark Orb. And the only thing mentioned being trapped within it, is Madoka's powers. Ergo, this must be the point at which Madoka's powers were sealed within the Dark Orb.

And again, given that the thread should represent the Law of Cycles, it would not be so outrageous as to assume the Law of Cycles is contained within the Dark Orb.

In fact, I think it would be more of a stretch to assume the only two counterpoints I could see to this.

1. The Law of Cycles is not Madoka's power, and thus although Madoka's power is contained within the Dark Orb, the Law of Cycles is not.

2. The Law of Cycles is Madoka's power, but only part of Madoka's power is sealed within the Dark Orb, and that part does not contain the Law of Cycles.

Right of the bat, 1 seems completely false to me. Madoka is literally the creator of the Law of Cycles, it should be her power. The fact that she is able to transfer it along with her memories to other people means she has control over it.

And 2 would be more of an assumption than what I'm making. That only "part" of Madoka's powers is contained within it, when it just says Madoka's powers with no qualifier. It would be the natural assumption to make in this case that it refers to all of Madoka's, not just the ones she has a regular Magical Girl.
 
Well #1 is what is stated by Homura herself.



1:20 onwards has Homura state she only took a small part (Madoka) of it, with 'it' being the Law of Cycles. So the rest of the LoC is unaffected.

1:40 reveals that a consequence of this was that Sayaka and Nagisa were pulled in with her, and that they can't return to where they come from. Implying the LoC is still out there instead of with them.

When Homura split Madoka from the LoC, it's exactly what happened (If you want symbolism as an argument), for a split second when Homura splits Madoka from the LoC, you can see two Madokas. The human and the goddess forms.
 
#1 was that the Law of Cycles is not a power of Madoka

Which uh, in that case it should only be treated as a law she created, and thus not listed under her abilities. Anything that can be inferred about her powers from its existence should not be applied to Madoka, since she does not directly control and manipulate it. Like characters who have creations feats that scale far above their destruction feats.

Ultimate Madoka was considered to be omnipresent on a multiversal scale. But if we nix the Law of Cycles from her powers, the greatest size for her would be bigger than the Universe due to Urobuchi’s statement about her dress containing the universe.

Law manipulation should also be removed, as she only created the law, she doesn’t manipulate it.
 
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