Puella Magi verse: adding scans for God Tiers

[StrymULTRA]

So, as pointed here, PMMM god tiers suffer from the lack of scans on some of the most relevant abilities in matchups, tho I was able to find the scans and I'm now able to put evidence. Credits to @Kuro4416 and @Delta333 for helping me finding some of the scans.

Madoka Kaname

Acausality (Type 5. Became an existence which is no longer a part of the universe, with nobody being able to neither interact with nor remember her anymore, as she's now completely outside time, cause and effect, without any kind of connection to the world)

Now that her Acausality is justified, I'd like to change some stuff about her Conceptual Manipulation.

She didn't really killed the witches using a direct "boom conceptual erasure", she had to apply a law in order to prevent witches to be a thing again across all space and time. However, I'm not saying that she should have her conceptual manip removed in favor of a strong Law hax, as herself said she's able to destroy laws. And Laws in context are concepts, as Madoka embodies the Law of Circles. So I'd write her Abstract Existence and other abilities like this.

Omnipresence and Abstract Existence (Type 1. Stated to have become a concept that exists across all space and time), Law Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1. Rearranged the universes to make them fit with the new law she has created in order to erase in every universe, past and future, the concept of Witches. Can destroy or rewrite laws, which in context are concepts due to Madoka herself being the Law of Cycles)

EDIT: Her AP justification seems more hax than AP, ngl. This should sound more like AP.

Multiverse level+ (Completely reformed the multiverse, which is stated to be made of infinite universes, from destroying the concept of Witches in every universe, past and future. Ascended to a higher level of existence to become a conceptual entity as the Law of Cycles itself, which encompasses the multiverse as well as the nonexistent multiverse beyond it. Has shown to be on par with Ultimate Kriemhild Gretchen)

She also should have Avatar Creation for kinda obvious reasons.

Kriemhild Gretchen

Her NEP 2 and High Godly lack scans to back them up.

New ones should be like this.

Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2. Was able to appear in Ultimate Madoka's new universe despite the new law she applied prevented the concept of Witches from existing. Stated to be made of the despair of the Puella Magis, which is what transforms them to Witches), Regeneration (High-Godly. Even after Ultimate Madoka erased her, she was able to return, making Madoka unable to permanently defeat her)

Homura Akemi

Her hax justification can be better on her Akuma Homura key.

All previous abilities, but enhanced, Immortality (Types 1, 3 and 9), Incorporeality, Non-Physical Interaction, Higher-Dimensional Existence, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Size Manipulation, Avatar Creation, Large Size (Type 9), Omnipresence, Acausality (Type 5), Abstract Existence (Type 1), Law Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation (Should be the same as Ultimate Madoka as she became an existence equal to hers according to WoG)

She also should have her Acausality Type 1 better explained due to her remembering the reset of the multiverse made from Madoka, as a key point of the movie is her remembering the witches and Madoka's existence.

Acausality (Type 1 through contact with her shield. Was able to remember the Witches and Madoka's existence even after the latter's reset of the multiverse)

 

[Hasty12345]

I like these changes, it actually makes her profile (in the stronger keys) look more like a VBW profile and less like an opinion.

I would, however, like to suggest - if possible - that specific screenshots of the relevant statements be put into an imgur folder and rather rather than the chapters. This might just be happening to me, but when I open those links, it takes me to the top of the chapter.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I would, however, like to suggest - if possible - that specific screenshots of the relevant statements be put into an imgur folder and rather rather than the chapters. This might just be happening to me, but when I open those links, it takes me to the top of the chapter.

It contains the literal translation and users can check all the context, other than being able to find these with a CTRL F anyway if they just want the statement.

 

[Elizhaa]

The additions seems fine.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

I agree, it's pretty simple.

Should it add justification for the immeasurable speed of UKG? it looks vague if there is no scan that proves, i think.

 

[Zencha9]

Finally
Anyways yeah i pretty much agree with everything here good job

 

[StrymULTRA]

I agree, it's pretty simple.

Should it add justification for the immeasurable speed of UKG? it looks vague if there is no scan that proves, i think.

Eventually became at least comparable to Ultimate Madoka in speed, who transcends linear time, and is implied that she keeps fighting her, but it is unknown whether or not she would become Omnipresent if it wasn't for Ultimate Madoka's influence

That's remotely not Immeasurable speed, it's not a situation like Sonic vs Solaris, which has evidence of becoming Immeasurable tbh. If it needs to be removed it's fine, as it seem like a remnant of the old tiering system.

Edit: I think her Large Size should become eventually Type 9 as she's kinda the equivalent of Ultimate Madoka tbh.

The additions seems fine.

What do you think of this idea?

 

[Delta333]

Yeah the current reason for immeasurable speed sucks, IMO Madoka's arrows being able to go through time in final episode can be new reason for immeasurable speed

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah the current reason for immeasurable speed sucks, IMO Madoka's arrows being able to go through time in final episode can be new reason for immeasurable speed

What exactly stops it from being just range tho? It's something every Omnipresent across space time can do by default. Giygas for example can attack across time but it's not Immeasurable speed for example.

 

[Delta333]

What exactly stops it from being just range tho? It's something every Omnipresent across space time can do by default. Giygas for example can attack across time but it's not Immeasurable speed for example.

The arrows come from her physical avatar, who is not omnipresent, and we can even see that her arrows fly casually in the sky, I mean if they are omnipresent attacks then they don't need to fly to the past at all, as they should always exist in the past instead

 

[Remus1998]

Should a scan be added for Madoka's immunity to Soul Manipulation?

 

[StrymULTRA]

The arrows come from her physical avatar, who is not omnipresent, and we can even see that her arrows fly casually in the sky, I mean if they are omnipresent attacks then they don't need to fly to the past at all, as they should always exist in the past instead

K then.

Should a scan be added for Madoka's immunity to Soul Manipulation?

Her Soul Gem isn't a thing anymore, so yes? A scan for Homura's memory manip (the one that screwed Ult. Madoka) would be nice too.

 

[StrymULTRA]

A thing like this.

eventually became Immeasurable, possibly Omnipresent (Eventually became at least comparable to Ultimate Madoka in speed, who can attack every universe in the past and future simultaneously, and is implied that she keeps fighting her, but it is unknown whether or not she would become Omnipresent if it wasn't for Ultimate Madoka's influence)

Tho I noticed an issue here.

Sub-Relativistic (Even before being born, as a comet grief seed she managed to fly from space to Earth, and upon being born, her arms grew to entrap the Earth in almost a second)

This should be calculated ngl.

 

[Delta333]

Here is scan for Homura's memory manip

 

[StrymULTRA]

Here is scan for Homura's memory manip

Gureto. I'll watch the movie too to get the clip of her yeeting Madoka's memories too. Plus the whole "implied to be able to destroy the multiverse" thing, if there is.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Here is scan for Homura's memory manip

This too, for also the Acausality. Tho she did regain Time Manip in Rebellion anyway.



Edit: This for her BFR/Hammerspace too

 

[StrymULTRA]

About Homura, I can argue Absorption and a more potent Memory hax for her Homulily key.

This is her splitting Madoka from the Law of Cycle, taking her place as well.

This is Homura confirming to have taken a fragment and her messing with the memories of everyone, including Godoka (with confirmation of Godoka being affected too).

With manga version too

 

[Delta333]

Yeah she should have absorption, she actually has been categorized as Absorption Users and Power Absorption Users on profile tho

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah she should have absorption, she actually has been categorized as Absorption Users and Power Absorption Users on profile tho

This. I also should recalc Kriemhild Gretchen Sub-Rel feat (as is Narutoforums and pic is also dead), then we should be fine.

About new Homura abilities for her Homulily key (which are Absorption, Power Nullification and Enhanched Memory Manipulation), I'd like to say that she reverted Madoka to her human self, but Magia Record kinda of ***** this idea, so I have no idea of how to type it lol.

For her AP instead I thought at this:

Multiverse level+ (Forcefully split Madoka from her Ultimate self, overtaking her role and gaining a piece of the Law of Cycle. Replaced Madoka as a Goddess and became an existence equal to hers according to WoG)

Edit: Forgot that Magia Record is before Rebellion lol. It'd be something like this:

Absorption, Power Nullification, Sealing, Reality Warping and Enhanched Memory Manipulation (Split Madoka from her Ultimate Self, taking a piece of the Law of Cycle, which is Madoka's records of her before ascending to her Ultimate self, changing the memories of everyone in the process, including Madoka herself, who is now just a human confined in Homura's rewritten universe)

Edit 2: How tf does Ultimate Madoka not have Reality Warping and NEP 2 EE?

 

[Kuro4416]

It's a bit late actually because I didn't open the thread from yesterday, so well, I'll read it later, I'm a bit busy because of the test, want to go to sleep actually but can't sleep lmao, sorry to bother

 

[Kuro4416]

Well I just finished the exam and well, I passed lmao(Thanks Delta!) . Well can I insert?

Avatar Creation(Use she avatar to enter the dream world inside homura's soul gem)

Is this good?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well I just finished the exam and well, I passed lmao(Thanks Delta!) . Well can I insert?

Avatar Creation(Use she avatar to enter the dream world inside homura's soul gem)

Is this good?

Technically no, we don't see her in this scan. Tho is already obvious from Homura's profile. Something like "used a physical representation to enter in Homulily's dream world" should be fine.

This actually gives to Homulily the power to screw AE1 and Omnipresent stuff from attacking their avatars too technically.

 

[Kuro4416]

Yes, it seems to look very good here, waiting for staff entry

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yes, it seems to look very good here, waiting for staff entry

K. I'll recalc Kriemhild Gretchen's Sub-Rel feat. Plus, there are some issues.

First key of Kriemhild Gretchen: At least Planet level (Far superior to her fourth timeline magical girl form, who one shot Walpurgisnacht. Immediately upon birth, sucked up everything on a continental scale; as its barrier spread out, it grew to encompass the entire planet.)

That "at least" should be removed, as it doesn't seem above baseline at all. This is the original scan. The way this is described doesn't seem 5-B, so I'll sugegst something like this.

Planet level (Far superior to her fourth timeline magical girl form, who one shot Walpurgisnacht. Immediately upon birth, she started to suck up everything on a continental scale, later doing so with the entirety of the Earth)

Second Key is Unknown for no reason. For how is described, it sounds just being able to one-shot her previous key, plus, she did nothing but being one-shotted from Madoka. So I'll suggest something like this.

At least Planet level, likely far higher (Immensely superior to her fourth timeline self as she wasn't made of just Madoka's despair, but also Was bigger than the Earth as her arms were able to enwrap the entire planet and even then, she was continuing to grow larger).

UGK being Omnipresent doesn't make sense tho, she's stated at best to be as big as a galaxy at peak. She should be Immeasurable at best.

Plus some scan of her being > Avatar of Calamity would be really nice (for real, from where comes the whole "Immensely above the peak of the Avatar of Calamity, who was created merely as a side effect of Ultimate Kriemhild Gretchen's curses", really, from where?).

 

[StrymULTRA]

Because I made an imgur album for the scans about "UGK = Ult. Madoka", but it says just that Madoka is only fighting witches for eternity, which alone isn't enough to prove UGK 2-A. Only way to make UKG 2-A is from making her scaling above AoC, but there are no scans proving that :V.



Edit: Nvm, is said that AoE is made of the curses of Homura's shield, and UKG is made of all the curses and despair. My bad.

 

[Delta333]

UGK being Omnipresent doesn't make sense tho, she's stated at best to be as big as a galaxy at peak. She should be Immeasurable at best.

Omnipresence is ability of UM and witch has all abilities of the previous magical girl form, the galaxy sized is just her mere avatar anyways, tho at this point I think we should wait for SD since the revision is starting to reach more and more important stuffs instead of focusing on the original matter

 

[StrymULTRA]

Omnipresence is ability of UM and witch has all abilities of the previous magical girl form, the galaxy sized is just her mere avatar anyways, tho at this point I think we should wait for SD since the revision is starting to reach more and more important stuffs instead of focusing on the original matter

I'll just calc the UKG feat then.

Tho what about this for UKG?

At least Planet level, likely far higher (Immensely superior to her fourth timeline self as she is made of the despair of all the Puella Magis other than just Madoka's. Was bigger than the Earth as her arms were able to enwrap the entire planet and even then, she was continuing to grow larger). Will eventually be Multiverse level+ (Should be far stronger than the Avatar of Calamity as she's implied to be made of all the curses, which would include also the Avatar of Calamity).

 

[Delta333]

Tbf I don't get the reason why did UKG have unknown rating in the first place so I'm not entirely sure about the removal

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

Tbf I don't get the reason why did UKG have unknown rating in the first place so I'm not entirely sure about the removal

The Unknown rating came from the fact we don't have the exact number for Final Timeline Madoka's AP. We only know the fact that she is exponentially more powerful than her fourth timeline iteration. She used to have "At least 5-B, likely far higher" rating, but that got removed because this wiki doesn't give lowballed number for the sake to be as accurate as possible.

I agree with the additions though. Sorry that I can't be any help here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The Unknown rating came from the fact we don't have the exact number for Final Timeline Madoka's AP. We only know the fact that she is exponentially more powerful than her fourth timeline iteration. She used to have "At least 5-B, likely far higher" rating, but that got removed because this wiki doesn't give lowballed number for the sake to be as accurate as possible.

I agree with the additions though. Sorry that I can't be any help here.

This doesn't make sense. Photoshop Flowey here isn't just Unknown because of the SOULs power being exponential. The "likely far higher" already does this.

Tho I'd appreciate an explanation on why UGK is "possible omnipresent" too.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Entrap the whole world in almost a second.

Don't know jackshit about PMMM, but taking this at face value, that is basically 40075 km/s, approx 13% the speed of light, ie relativistic.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Don't know jackshit about PMMM, but taking this at face value, that is basically 40075 km/s, approx 13% the speed of light, ie relativistic.

Tbh I noticed that it actually takes around 2 secs and I got approximately like Sub-Rel+.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I ain't some god calc dude, but from the feat itself, she uses both of her arms, each one to cover half of the world. Wouldn't that get the speed halved, or nah?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I ain't some god calc dude, but from the feat itself, she uses both of her arms, each one to cover half of the world. Wouldn't that get the speed halved, or nah?

I asked to @M3X and he definitely confirmed that it should yeah.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Got 6.37c for UKG. So the remaining stuff is to discuss KG omnipresence and 5-B rating in her UKG key.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I believe you meant 0.0637c?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I believe you meant 0.0637c?

****, confused with %.

 

[Kuro4416]

Regarding calc, I am a bit weak or rather I am very lacking in knowledge about character speed calc (lmao) so is there anything else for hax, feats etc?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Regarding calc, I am a bit weak or rather I am very lacking in knowledge about character speed calc (lmao)

To be honest calc section of the verse is a mess but this ain't the thread. I'll fix it when this is done.

so is there anything else for hax, feats etc?

This doesn't make sense. Photoshop Flowey here isn't just Unknown because of the SOULs power being exponential. The "likely far higher" already does this.

Tho I'd appreciate an explanation on why UGK is "possible omnipresent" too.

 

[Delta333]

"Possibly" omnipresence cuz in WA she can only appear in nonexistent multiverse, which means UKG is not really omnipresent, or it can mean that she is still omnipresent but UM has ability to seal omnipresent being