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Agree with the CRT
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Post-Haoshoku Luffy and Shuron Hakken Kaido CRT based on G4 and Strongest Attacks multipliers.
- Thread starter Eseseso
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #44
So Gear 5 would upscale to Baseline High 6-A which is 4.435 petatons (and so would Kaido's flame dragon for scaling above both Shuron Hakke and normal G5 Luffy), and Bajrang Gun would be 17.74 petatons.
Of course, should that 4.537 petaton Momo calc @KingTempest made get accepted, the values for each form go up a lot.
G4 and G5 would be 18.148 petatons, strongest attacks would be 36.29 petatons and Bajrang would be like 72.59 petatons
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Eminiteable
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So regular Hybrid and Zoan were damaging and taking hits from Gear 5th Luffy showing that there wasn't that much of an increase with Shurron Hakke like the CRT is claiming.
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- #47
G5 Luffy still overpowered him.
And Luffy himself has held his own in base against those many times stronger.
In the 2nd phase of the Katakuri fight he matched Kata in base for a fair while despite being way weaker.
Eminiteable
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When did G5 overpower Kaidou in AP?
Good for him, Kaidou's showings though weren't that he was just holding his own against a stronger opponent he was outright winning until Bajrang Gun.
The issue here is Kaidou wasn't portrayed way weaker against Gear 5th despite not using shurron hakke, the only thing shown is that the strength difference Shurron Hakke gives isn't that much bigger despite you claiming it makes him four times stronger and more durable which it doesn't.
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- #50
I mentioned it above in an earlier post
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His haoshoku infused attacks are his physicals. Not dura neg. It woulndn't work if we said it amps Ryuou, but in this case it's an AP addition on a pre-existing AP amp
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It's neither dura neg nor his physicals, Luffy can punch a target without using Haoshoku infusion, and then increase the power of his punches 4x times with compression in Gear 4.
However, Haoshoku is a set boost in power, not a multiplier, if Base Luffy's AP is 1 but with Haoshoku Infusion is 50, then the compression would be Base Luffy x 4, meaning 54 in total, not 200.
This is futher supported by the fact of Kaidou taking similar damage from Luffy's attacks while either in Base State or with Gear 4th.
The multiplier makes no sense because of that, and it's the reason why we put "higher" with Gears rather having a similar lineup to his previous keys.
However, Haoshoku is a set boost in power, not a multiplier, if Base Luffy's AP is 1 but with Haoshoku Infusion is 50, then the compression would be Base Luffy x 4, meaning 54 in total, not 200.
This is futher supported by the fact of Kaidou taking similar damage from Luffy's attacks while either in Base State or with Gear 4th.
The multiplier makes no sense because of that, and it's the reason why we put "higher" with Gears rather having a similar lineup to his previous keys.
WrongIdea21
He/Him- 4,089
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Snook make a lot of sense, I agree.
Base Luffy with Hao infusion <<<< Gear 4th with Hao Infusion.
Base Luffy with Hao infusion <<<< Gear 4th with Hao Infusion.
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Where the hell are either of you coming up with this?
Luffy's Gear 4 is 4 times stronger than G2 Luffy with CoC
Therefore Luffy's Gear 4 hits 4x harder with CoC than G2 Luffy does
You both turned the haoshoku infusion into a multiplier, and Gear 4, the canon multiplier, into an addition. You literally changed the context of the form's very purpose to create this sudden numerical system outta' nowhere to fit this weird narrative just because "Kaido wasn't getting that hurt". Yeah, and Kaido's haki was getting stronger the entire exchange. The dude went on to unlock another state just to nearly one-tap Gear 4 right after so clearly he wasn't going to get dog walked like Doffy.
WrongIdea21
He/Him- 4,089
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It is not difficult to understand why make it difficult?
Even without haki Gear 4th is still >>>>Base Luffy.
If Base Luffy with Haki is at a certain value then Gear4th will be at least 4x greater than that.
Even without haki Gear 4th is still >>>>Base Luffy.
If Base Luffy with Haki is at a certain value then Gear4th will be at least 4x greater than that.
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Since when? Luffy developed Haoshoku Infusion during his fight with Kaidou.
You do realize that Base Luffy with Haoshoku Infusion hits as hard if not harder than Gear 4th's strongest attacks without Hao?
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That's precisely what we're disagreeing with.
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We're literally arguing for the opposite of that.
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Yes, the same Luffy who went from getting 2 shot by hybrid, to getting off screened and disappointing Kaido, to taking Shuron Hakke hits in base several times and still muscling through. Unless you want to argue COC infusion is also a durability boost.
Okay? And Gear 4 then should hit x4 harder while it has COC infused into it. It scales off Luffy's COC infused base all the same.
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- #62
WrongIdea21
He/Him- 4,089
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But y'all sounds like Haoshoku infusion has no AP value.
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That Luffy had a "rough" Hao infusion as Kaido stated and was still able to hurt and parry Kaidou's attacks either way.
He was still able to hurt Luffy before entering Shuron Hakke, what's your point?
Headcanon, repeating it won't make it any more true.
The multiplier makes no sense whatsoever, current base Luffy can clash and parry Kaidou's attacks thanks to the use of the Haoshoku, and Kaidou is able to parry and clash with Gear 4th's compressed attacks also enhanced by Haoshoku.
Even Base Kaido can take Gear 4th Snakeman's compressed + Hao attacks, there's no such multiplier.
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A weaker Kaido compared to his later amps which were quickly overwhelming Luffy before he adapted
Not the point. The point is Luffy went from being unable to take more than a few hits to having a full on slugfest with a vastly stronger Kaido.
I'm not sure you're aware what "headcanon" means if you're calling the accepted manyfold multiplier that, but coming up with a formula that has literaly no foundation whatsoever to justify why the x4 is suddenly changed.
A sober Kaido. Compared to when he took a Kanabo hit to the face before Shuron Hakke and got up smiling, the first Shuron Hakke hit in 1037 has Luffy stunned on the floor screaming in pain.
There was never any "parrying" or "clashing" during the final round. Drunk Zoan Kaido took a punch to the mouth, had his blast detonate in it, fell flat and immidiately got up in his Bloodlusted Drunk state (using his seemingly strongest hybrid version) and hit Gear 4 right back without Luffy getting the chance to react. Their "clash" got interrupted by CP0.
A Snakeman attack at the very beginning of their fight vs a snakeman attack vs Shuron Hakke Kaido and Luffy that both grew stronger by the end shouldn't even be a comparaison point.
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Weaker? The only amp he got was Shuron Hakke and before that he was hurting Luffy just fine, once again your point?
It's headcanon simply because Base Luffy is hurting Hybrid Kaido just fine, the same Kaido who took compressed attacks in his Base Form.
Gear 4th Luffy nearly got nearly one-shotted by Kaido's TBB and later got killed, and we don't know what happened during Kaido vs newly discovered Haoshoku Luffy since it was off screened.
Yes there were, Luffy clashed multiple times with Kaido after he had entered Shuron Hakke, he even heatbutted him.
And that wasn't even the final round, the final round was against Gear 5 Luffy and a Kaido which had stopped using his Shuron Hakke modes.
Completely and utterly irrelevant, first of all it was in chapter 1025, a Base Kaido was able to withstand Snakeman Luffy's Jet Culverin, which was enhanced by compression and Hao, and later on Base Luffy was also able to hurt him in his Hybrid Form and clash with him.
Your argument falls apart when you realize that you are trying to make Base Luffy Hao 4 times stronger than Snakeman Luffy's Compression and Hao.
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Gear 5th Luffy is a different case, being able to hurt Kaido by slamming him into the ground (meaning no Hao involved, his pure physicals are 6-A).
Problem is Gear 5th only used compression until that very last attack, which is already High 6-A thanks to the calc.
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An amp that forced Luffy into Gear 4 when prolonged off-screen battle with a hybrid Kaido prior didn't.
And so did the scabbards. And so did Zoro. Hurting Kaido doesn't instantly make you his equal.
Between Kaido vs Base Luffy and Shuron Hakke vs Luffy we were blatantly told that Kaido got stronger. TBB was from a Super Hybrid Kaido. That form stunned the hell out of even Gear 5 with Koka defense on both arms.
You said "Gear 4". I answered for Gear 4, the very round Kaido got the victory. There were no clashes there. A stronger Kaido took an Over Kong Gun, got stunned, then used an amp to retaliate. There was no clash with Gear 4.
It's not even new for Luffy to get as strong as his previous limit in a short timespan.
VS Katakuri he went from getting worked in Gear 2/3 an even 4 to boxing Katakuri in base. Why is it suddenly ridiculous to believe Luffy in a far more deadly battle had his haki bloom to the point of surpassing his Snakeman state at the beginning of the fight.
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Fair enough.
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Yall dont wanna hear my answer
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- Thread starter
- #72
Any legit answer will do.
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Ykw, nah.
Here's my view on it now
Now it's not.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_784_14.jpg
Gear 4th works as multiplying whatever force is on Luffy's fist at the time.
The compression utilizes tensile force to amplify the strength of Luffy's strikes.
The equation is
Compression Amp * (Regular Punch + Amplifiers) = Expansion Amp
The compression is multiplying what Luffy is already using.
Everybody saying "it's a big amp so its not multiplication and it's a static amp" has no proof for their claims. Here's how I see it.
Luffy's a 10. Buso's a 20. Hao's a 500. G4th amp is 4
G4th Regularly = 4 * (10 + 20) = 120
Haoshoku = 10 + 500 = 510
Buso w/ Haoshoku = 10 + 20 + 500 = 530
G4th w/ Haoshoku = 4 * (10 + 20 + 500) = 2120
Haoshoku's Amp alone is superior to G4th's regular strength, but you can stack G4th on top of that
That's my final answer. Good night
Here's my view on it now
This used to be my view on it.
Now it's not.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_784_14.jpg
Gear 4th works as multiplying whatever force is on Luffy's fist at the time.
The compression utilizes tensile force to amplify the strength of Luffy's strikes.
The equation is
Compression Amp * (Regular Punch + Amplifiers) = Expansion Amp
The compression is multiplying what Luffy is already using.
Everybody saying "it's a big amp so its not multiplication and it's a static amp" has no proof for their claims. Here's how I see it.
Luffy's a 10. Buso's a 20. Hao's a 500. G4th amp is 4
G4th Regularly = 4 * (10 + 20) = 120
Haoshoku = 10 + 500 = 510
Buso w/ Haoshoku = 10 + 20 + 500 = 530
G4th w/ Haoshoku = 4 * (10 + 20 + 500) = 2120
Haoshoku's Amp alone is superior to G4th's regular strength, but you can stack G4th on top of that
That's my final answer. Good night
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- Thread starter
- #74
Ykw, nah.
Here's my view on it now
This used to be my view on it.
Now it's not.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_784_14.jpg
Gear 4th works as multiplying whatever force is on Luffy's fist at the time.
The compression utilizes tensile force to amplify the strength of Luffy's strikes.
The equation is
Compression Amp * (Regular Punch + Amplifiers) = Expansion Amp
The compression is multiplying what Luffy is already using.
Everybody saying "it's a big amp so its not multiplication and it's a static amp" has no proof for their claims. Here's how I see it.
Luffy's a 10. Buso's a 20. Hao's a 500. G4th amp is 4
G4th Regularly = 4 * (10 + 20) = 120
Haoshoku = 10 + 500 = 510
Buso w/ Haoshoku = 10 + 20 + 500 = 530
G4th w/ Haoshoku = 4 * (10 + 20 + 500) = 2120
Haoshoku's Amp alone is superior to G4th's regular strength, but you can stack G4th on top of that
That's my final answer. Good night
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Why wouldn't they want to hear your answer when you're agreeing with them?
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Because it's an answer all the same. I assume he was just trying to stay neutral
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This has been my stance the whole time. Haoshoku doesn't suddenly make Gear 4's striking multiplier irrelevant. It's in the realm of headcanon entirely to say anything but that. Gear 4 multiplies the striking of Luffy's fist by 4, no matter what said fist has amping it.
At the very ABSOLUTE least if you don't believe base/G2 Luffy has proven he's equal to hybrid Kaido so G4 scales off that, G4 was wacking a drunk hybrid Kaido and Over Kong Gun should use the King Kong Scale over G3 (which in this case is comparable to G2)
Gear 4 has 2 layers of x4 stacks that can be used and we're ignoring all of them entirely
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- Thread starter
- #78
Of course, since G3 only scales unquantifiably above G2, we should just use the >2x scaling we currently use for Strongest Attacks
Technically only one.
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G4's base compression>G2
G4's Strongest/Biggest compression>G3
Although yeah, technically here it's one since G2 and G3 were portrayed as just a new base fighting style for Luffy now
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