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Post-Crisis Wally West 2-A CRT

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I don't mind a 2-A Flash, but it depends on what the knowledgeable members that I called here, such as Firestorm808, think.
 
I meant the feats and wording that would be used for it with scans and all.
 
Something along these lines? Some more quantified than me can iron out the wording

“Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+“ at his peak (Overpowered the Anti-Monitor and destroyed his armor while he was being drained, despite the Spectre being incapable of doing so while amplified by Earth's sorcerers)

I think these would be the relevant scans for his peak key (all credit goes to Firestorm, obviously):

Time travels backward to earlier in the alternate Crisis, during the final battle between Earth’s heroes and the Anti-Monitor after creating New Earth. Image
Shares speed with heroes in order to boost their metabolism to be powerful enough to injure the Anti-Monitor. Image
When they fail, Wally then starts tearing apart the Anti-Monitor’s armor by himself. This is not his full strength, as demonstrated later in the issue with his fight against Cobalt Blue.Image 1 Image 2 Image 3Image 4 Image 5
Click to expand...
  • (To clarify, the Anti-Monitor was having his power drained by Doctor Light, but he was also more powerful in this timeline due to Barry’s absence further unbalancing the AM’s power in favor of anti-matter.)
  • Not even the Spectre, who was magically amplified by all of DC’s sorcerer’s at the time, was capable of piercing the Anti-Monitor’s armor and defeating him.Image 1 Image 2Image 3
  • Here, Wally channels the entirety of the Speed Force, describing it as limitless power and infinity, and obliterates Cobalt Blue. This is an important benchmark, since this is seemingly Wally’s max, yet he later goes much faster.Image
    Channels the entirety of the Speed Force, describes it as limitless power and infinity, and obliterates Cobalt Blue.Image 1 Image 2
 
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AM Universe absorbed Dawn of Time Anti Monitor is a different level of power from New Earth Anti Matter Star Absorbing Anti Monitor.
 
I don't want to derail but tbh, I don't see why Wally should be above The Spectre because according to a later story it was that The Spectre's power by itself would've been enough to prevent COIE but was being foolish with his power, I believe that the 1992 Spectre comic run kinda affirms this as in that run The Spectre was depowered by The Presence for his recklessness during that event.
Now whatever or not we say in the AP justification that Flash was above that amped state of The Spectre doesn't matter to me, but I'm just pretty skeptical about it
 
LordTracer said:
I mostly agree with Firestorm808’s proposals, although I don’t mind 2-A Wally when he’s amped by the Speed Force.
Click to expand...
Yeah, assuming the AM scene doesn't have some crippling context maxing out at 2-A isn't bad (he did amp the heroes when they shattered his armor).
 
@Firestorm808

I trust your sense of judgement. What would you currently suggest?
 
Mav hit the nail on the head. Spectre’s power varies a lot but he should still be 2-A in Chain Lightning, but his max is way higher. I don’t see a problem with scaling Wally to a mere 2-A Spectre. 2-C exists since AM was stated to be depowered iirc but he could still blow up multiple universes and was superior to the Pre-Crisis heroes.
 
Shouldn't we list more reasons for the new statistics in the Flash profile page than just beating the Anti-Monitor? On its own it would be taken as a plot-induced stupidity-driven outlier.
 
I mean the relativistic mass punch beat up Pre-Crisis Reverse Flash who scales to Superwoman who should be 2-C and he should be superior to Barry who stopped the anti-matter cannon. Technically his rebirth feats could also scale to his Post-Crisis self via Hunter Zolomon. Don't forget that he has a variable tier and I'm also fine with accounting for his 8-C low-ends. His fight with Cobalt Blue (who's the one to kill Pre-Crisis Barry) could also back this up, but I'm skeptical on him using the entire SF against him.
 
I am more referring to that the otherwise explained scale of his powers and the Speed Force need to be mentioned in the Flash page, as they do not make the Anti-Monitor feat completely implausible compared to his usual feats.
 
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Greenshifter said:
I don’t see a problem with scaling Wally to a mere 2-A Spectre.
Click to expand...
My issue with that is The Spectre in later tales was later established as being able to prevent COIE on his own but didn't do his foolishness.
Now since Wally did do something that an amped Spectre at the time couldn't do is fine for scaling, but it should be made clear in like a note that The Spectre was much more powerful at the time and was unable to stop AM at the time because he was being stupid
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
He was more powerful due to barry’s absence
Click to expand...
image0.jpg

Oh right, that is an important detail.

“My God. This was the difference Barry’s absence made. The balance of matter and antimatter now favors the Anti-Monitor more completely. As mighty as he was before he’s even more frightening now.”
 
@Antvasima

In the 25 years of Post-Crisis Speedster history, Wally's interaction with the Semi-beaten Anti-Monitor in Flash Vol 2 #150 would be the highest non-speed force tapped feat at At least 2-C/2-A (See Anti-Monitor pending CRT). I consider this an outlier.

Flash has consistently shown that his heaviest attacks on his own rely on relativity. In the same Chain Lightning Storyline Flash Vol 2 #148, Wally describes his Dwarf Star RMP as his hardest punch ever, going all out because of time travel logic. Ripping the universe via his IMP at exactly the speed of light would be High 3-A/3-A since nothing implies it destroying the timeline or affecting time.

As for feats tapping into the speed force, we have Wally defeating Cobalt Blue, Bart Allen volunteered to absorb the entire Speed Force so that he would be fast enough to stop Prime, and Barry traveling back in time to save his mom causing the Flashpoint Timeline. I would rate their use of the Speed force in this era as 2-C.

The multiverse map wasn't introduced until Multiversity in 2014, so we shouldn't apply that structure to past stories and feats.
 
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Greenshifter said:
I mean the relativistic mass punch beat up Pre-Crisis Reverse Flash who scales to Superwoman who should be 2-C and he should be superior to Barry who stopped the anti-matter cannon. Technically his rebirth feats could also scale to his Post-Crisis self via Hunter Zolomon. Don't forget that he has a variable tier and I'm also fine with accounting for his 8-C low-ends. His fight with Cobalt Blue (who's the one to kill Pre-Crisis Barry) could also back this up, but I'm skeptical on him using the entire SF against him.
Click to expand...
Following New Earth, there is no Pre-Crisis Reverse-Flash in the reborn timeline.

Time travel and the COIE is complicated. You can't time travel to Earth 1 before the Crisis with Infinite Earths because the Dawn of Time was rebooted to only having 1 timeline.
 
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Firestorm808 said:
@Antvasima

In the 25 years of Post-Crisis Speedster history, Wally's interaction with the Semi-beaten Anti-Monitor would be the highest non-speed force tapped feat at At least 2-C/2-A (See Anti-Monitor pending CRT). I consider this an outlier.

Flash has consistently shown that his heaviest attacks on his own rely on relativity. In the same Chain Lightning Storyline Flash Vol 2 #148, Wally describes his Dwarf Star RMP as his hardest punch ever, going all out because of time travel logic. Ripping the universe via his IMP at exactly the speed of light would be High 3-A/3-A since nothing implies it destroying the timeline or affecting time.

As for feats tapping into the speed force, we have Wally defeating Cobalt Blue, Bart Allen volunteered to absorb the entire Speed Force so that he would be fast enough to stop Prime, and Barry traveling back in time to save his mom causing the Flashpoint Timeline. I would rate their use of the Speed force as 2-C.

The multiverse map wasn't introduced until Multiversity in 2014, so we shouldn't apply that structure to past stories and feats.
Click to expand...
Okay. I trust your sense of judgement. We should follow your suggestions regarding how this upgrade should be applied.
 
Speed Force

The Speed Force is an extra-dimensional energy field that acts as a separation from the multiverse proper and the Sphere of the Gods and acts as a sort of “valhalla” or “heaven” for speedsters. It supplies the kinetic energy for the entire multiverse, literally putting reality in motion pushing it forward. Wally has a connection to the Speed Force, likely the purest out of any other speedster (other than Barry, who generates it), and can mainline its infinite and endless energy. At one point, he even manages to control it. This is what gives him his and every other speedsters their super speed, as well as all his other abilities.

The Still and Speed Forces can destroy Hypertime, Hyper-Time is like "three temporal dimensions". Like time beyond time, (Grant Morrison's intention of Hypertime seems to be a bit higher than mere 3D time though), This even binds the Sphere of the Gods.

Barry uses the Speed Force to negate the effects of Anti-life on his wife, Anti-life is equal to the Source.

Doctor Manhattan was unable to retcon Wally with the Speed Force, in other words him and the Speed Force were unaffected by Flashpoint.

There's also a scan of Wally resisting an imp's reality warping, but I can't find it rn. Highfather also mistook the energy of the SF for the Source (wall).

All in all the Speed Force is consistently tier 1, so a 2-A feat is small fries.
 
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