Possible Pokemon Speed Downgrade.

[Xerkser500]

I think the best analogy will be photosynthesis as flowers collect sunlight to get the energy needed to make sugar.

Yeah and if Solar Beam wasnt literally an attack move, much less a beam move, but more a healing move in Pokemon, this would be more convincing.

But this is clearly not about Photosynthesis. Not to mention Pokemon already has a move where sunlight is involved and fits photosynethesis far better than Solar Beam: Morning Sun.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, speaking of Solar Beam not being real light, can you at least find the alleged "glass reflection" scan?

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Solar Beam is pretty clearly just absorbing energy from sunlight and using that to fuel an attack.

 

[Xerkser500]

>No, it's not. Gathering sunlight and then converting it for a directed energy beam is absolutely no different in principle than the mechanical conversion into electricity, just in functionality.

Except it is different because in the context of this case, we are not talking about electrical devices, which obviously cannot make use of pure sunlight and needs it to specifically be converted into electrical energy in order to even use it. We are talking about living creatures, so there is absolutely 0 reason to assume Solar Beams gathering light process is anything the same as a Solar Panels light gathering. Unless you want to say grass types like to shoot electricity.

>Explodes upon contact

Already went over this above as well. Its an attack, so it exploding should also not be a reason to dismiss legitimacy

>Can be sent into directed energy beams

Light Manipulation.

>Can turn into fireworks upon exploding

Not only has this happened like literally once, but that was when Solsr Beam made contact with other attacks and that really sounds nothing more than a feat for the mon than an anti-feat for the move.

>Is intangible

Which any fiction will say no to unless you think a fight scene should involve moves not colliding with opponents to make them look appealing.

>Mostly used in fiction by blinding the opponent with staggeringly bright light

Which Solar Beam has also been used as. Will provide scans for this too.

>How about that one time it wasnt reflective proof glass?

>Reflective Proof.......

 

[Xerkser500]

Sorry. Took time to get them and had other crap to do. Anyway, here are the scans I talked about along with another damning piece of evidence.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Solar_Beam_(move)#In_the_manga

This first one is a link to Bulbapedias page on Solar Beam. I can't find the scan from the actual manga itself because none of the manga sites I know have this manga on it, but Bulbapedias page shows the scan I'm talking about and explains how Solar Beam is being used. Clefairy is holding a reflective item in its hands where sunlight is being absorbed into it and then bounced off of it to indlict damage on an Umbreon.

https://jb2448.info/picture.php?/37663/category/1152

These next scans come from the Electric Tale of Pikachu manga. A group of gloom use solar beam and aim them against each other, which creates a strong flash of bright light. This is probably the weakest evidence I found but it should be evidence nonetheless.

https://jb2448.info/picture.php?/41240/category/1124

This is the strongest and most damning evidence that I stumbled upon. In the Phantom Theif manga, when Lucario and his trainer try entering a house thats locked by a black solar panel, the trainer has his Tangrowth use Solar Beam to create a flash of bright light that gets absorbed right into the panel to have it activate and let them inside. Following that, the trainer then comments on how Solar Beam is the perfect attack for that because solar panels are sensors that "react to the light of the sun".

Besides the bolded out part at the end being self-explanatory, this is pretty strong evidence that Solar Beam itself is pure sunlight and not just some converted energy. Because if it wasnt pure sunlight, how would the attack be able to be absorbed into the solar panel, which explicitly and strictly absorbs only pure sunlight?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

bump

 

[GyroNutz]

https://www.********.tv/video/13-fighting-ire-with-fire
About 30 seconds in, Barry's Empoleon reacts to and blocks Mothim's signal beam.

I'll make a calc request for this

 

[Drite77]

Guess we are cool now?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Bump.

 

[Drite77]

They technally won't receive a downgrade, only another justification for their speed, since another calc was done and the results were still Relativistic

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

That calc has the same assumption as this one. In the older Gen games signal beam is just two spiraling rays that hit the opponent. Which again according to the wikis disqualifies itself from being LightSpeed.

 

[JooCipher]

"The user attacks with a sinister beam of light. It may also confuse the target."

it's stated to be light

 

[Drite77]

In the other thread, most people seem to have agreed that SB is a SOL attack

 

[DragonEmperor23]

What were the reasons besides it being called light?

 

[Drite77]

Going in a straight line

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

being called light and going straight don't really mean much. That's every beam attack ever.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Solar Beam is literally light that's being absorbed from sunlight and then fired back.

 

[Drite77]

It is Signal Beam Saikou

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If Signal Beam is considered light now then Mega Mewtwo should be upgraded to FTL+. Not saying it should though. Just if.

Solar Beam should be 100% considered light for numerous reasons. It starts as actual light, the beam comes from a sun, it works on solar panels due to what someone said above, and one application of the move is literally reflecting light from a prism.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Signal beam isn't considered light.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Kep argued against solar beam being light above.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I recall Kep explaining why Solar Beam isn't legit.

 

[Drite77]

Shoot, guess we need to find a feat of a mon dodging Solar Beam?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, I disagree with his take on Solar Beam.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Regardless of Solar Beam, the current rating calc isn't legit as far as I can tell.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That calc has the same assumption as this one. In the older Gen games signal beam is just two spiraling rays that hit the opponent. Which again according to the wikis disqualifies itself from being LightSpeed.

You do know people made arguments that the "straight line" standard for light speed beams is pretty stupid right?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Kukui

Why does that matter unless there is an offical thread disregarding that standard?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I recall Kep explaining why Solar Beam isn't legit.

And Xerkser made a bunch of rebuttals against it that never got countered.

In fact, did anyone here even notice the evidence he got to support Solar Beam besides Cal?

 

[Drite77]

Me, but i was waiting for Kep to reply

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Shoot, guess we need to find a feat of a mon dodging Solar Beam?

I already did. Pokemon do it all the time in the canon GO.

And yes, to those who'll say it, GO is completely 100% canon. Pokemon can be transferred from it to core series games and it's literally the only way to get Meltan as of current.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Kukui
Why does that matter unless there is an offical thread disregarding that standard?

Because this is the first thread where this was brought up.

Though I do agree an official thread should be made for it by someone.

 

[Drite77]

Since Xerkser maded new arguments to why Solar Beam is SOL and none was debunked, we can use your calc?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The anime in its description of solarbeam says nothing about it being turned into something that's not light btw. It simply says that it's collected and formed into a beam.

"Solar Beam, Bulbasaur's strongest attack. Light is collected and formed into a powerful beam with intensive force."

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Now that I think about it, didnt Deoxys or some legendary dodge Solar Beam before?

Just curious.

 

[AguilaR101]

@kukui Well that thread would actually to be made and resolved first because currently solar beam fails to consistently meet the current criteria necessary for it to be considered lightspeed.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I've asked Kep to reiterate on solar beam.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Solar Beam should be 100% considered light for numerous reasons. It starts as actual light, the beam comes from a sun, it works on solar panels due to what someone said above, and one application of the move is literally reflecting light from a prism.

If this is true, then it's definitely light speed.

 

[Kepekley23]

Eh, whatever about Solar Beam. But Signal Beam has no evidence to be lightspeed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Pretty sure it meets a significant portion of them my dude.

Comes from a legitimate source (the sun)

Credible sources call it light (an encyclopedia written by world renowned scientists)

Reflects (Clefairy emulated the move using a reflective item)

Activated things only natural light can (Hiori's Tangrowth activated solar panels with SolarBeam)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree with Kep with Signal Beam