Demon Slayer Speed Overhaul

[NikHelton]

Once again, a crippled and disoriented base Season 1 Tanjiro could dodge explicitly stated sound speed attacks even without a breathing technique in one of his first ever battles, and he is innumerable blitz gaps below Hashira level characters. This narrative of a subsonic cap to demon slayer really doesn’t work no matter which way you cut it.

He did this using his sense of smell, avoiding attacks in advance

 

[Epyriel]

He did this using his sense of smell, avoiding attacks in advance

That isn’t stated, and as far as I’m aware he only learns to do this consistently during the Yoriichi Type Zero Training session far later.

However this doesn’t work as an explanation anyways, as he isn’t dodging in advance but rather moving relative to the attacks themselves. The anime also shows that he starts moving long after the attack is launched, dodging reactively, not in advance.

 

[Mikazzzuchi]

That isn’t stated, and as far as I’m aware he only learns to do this during the Yoriichi Type Zero Training session far later.

However this doesn’t work as an explanation anyways, as he isn’t dodging in advance but rather moving relative to the attacks themselves. The anime also shows that he starts moving long after the attack is launched, dodging reactively, not in advance.

He knows exactly when the attack is coming, which is shown in the fragment, so he dodges it

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I agree with Epyriel here. NikHelton doesn't seem to be making a good point. Smelling something relies on airborne particles, so one might want to consider how fast those spread if you want to take NikHelton's approach to its logical extreme.

 

[NikHelton]

I agree with Epyriel here. NikHelton doesn't seem to be making a good point. Smelling something relies on airborne particles, so one might want to consider how fast those spread if you want to take NikHelton's approach to its logical extreme.

dude above literally provided evidence that Tanjiro dodged in advance

 

[Nehz_XZX]

dude above literally provided evidence that Tanjiro dodged in advance

Tanjiro only started to take notice of the smell of the mold and how it precedes the attack later. He was already dodging before that moment. We also have Inosuke who doesn't have the same sense of smell dodging those attacks.

Smelling something relies on airborne particles, so one might want to consider how fast those spread if you want to take NikHelton's approach to its logical extreme.

You might also want to consider what I said in regards to smells.

 

[Epyriel]

He knows exactly when the attack is coming, which is shown in the fragment, so he dodges it

That is more than halfway through the fight, meaning he was already dodging reactively to these sound speed attacks without smelling them in the first half, as was blatantly shown in both manga and anime.

Also, this is still a reactive dodge. He is simply dodging based on the smell instead of sight alone after it has been launched at him, not before. He is still moving at speeds relative to the attack. He only learns the ability to predict attacks before they are made during the Yoriichi Type Zero Training.

 

[Epyriel]

I agree with Epyriel here. NikHelton doesn't seem to be making a good point. Smelling something relies on airborne particles, so one might want to consider how fast those spread if you want to take NikHelton's approach to its logical extreme.

Just looked it up, and apparently mold spores travel in air speeds between 0.5 m/s and 1m/s, which is between 343 and 686 times slower than sound. So the whole logic of using hearing to discount faster than sound movement in battle really doesn’t follow if you need to discount exactly that kind of phenomena for spore speeds to discount Tanjiro moving faster than sound because he can smell attacks coming (although that doesn’t work anyways as covered above since he only starts doing that halfway through, and still represents a reactive dodge).

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

Another counterbalance to these calculations is Gyomei, one of the fastest characters in the verse, who, being blind, relies in battle on the sounds of the chain of his weapon.

Well, about the fact that next to the feat of lightning in the same arch, the characters cannot dodge the sound wave and the concussion, I will not say anything at all

This is something I was wondering about a while ago.
But I don't think it will go forward, if Gyomei really limited himself to Subsonico, he wouldn't be able to fight Kokushibo, hence the first inconsistency.

There are several feats to prove the verse above the speed of sound.

Let's take Baki as an example, Yujiro gets blitzed at a speed of 270 km/h, and that doesn't mean we're going to leave him at subsonic level.


Baki takes a lot of damage when falling from a 30 meter drop, but we won't leave him at wall level even for that, even before falling off a cliff and coming out practically intact.

These are inconsistencies that don't make sense with the Power Scale of the work as a whole.

 

[Viott]

I agree with Epyriel here.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Just looked it up, and apparently mold spores travel in air speeds between 0.5 m/s and 1m/s, which is between 343 and 686 times slower than sound. So the whole logic of using hearing to discount faster than sound movement in battle really doesn’t follow if you need to discount exactly that kind of phenomena for spore speeds to discount Tanjiro moving faster than sound because he can smell attacks coming (although that doesn’t work anyways as covered above since he only starts doing that halfway through, and still represents a reactive dodge).

On top of everything that has been already said, we should remember Gaiden Rengoku could easily dodge and block several high-end supersonic bullets, even though at that moment he was relative to LM2.

 

[Epyriel]

Bump

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

Bump

 

[Epyriel]

Still waiting on a CGM to take a look at the Daki recalc (and for any actual thread mods or admins to finally acknowledge this thread’s existence), but in the meantime I have added a newly accepted Mach 363 Yoriichi calc to his section in the proposal sandbox as a backup support.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Bump

 

[KnyRaizn]

Bump

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

Bump

 

[Epyriel]

Bump

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

Bump

 

[Kavopaco]

After having two forum accounts rejected for not following steps correctly, i can finally come here and say that i agree with this Also, would Epyriel's Daki calc when accepted be enough to close this crt, or would we need more staff to agree? (new here so not sure how many are needed)

 

[JnSteHar002]

This is something I was wondering about a while ago.
But I don't think it will go forward, if Gyomei really limited himself to Subsonico, he wouldn't be able to fight Kokushibo, hence the first inconsistency.

There are several feats to prove the verse above the speed of sound.

Let's take Baki as an example, Yujiro gets blitzed at a speed of 270 km/h, and that doesn't mean we're going to leave him at subsonic level.


Baki takes a lot of damage when falling from a 30 meter drop, but we won't leave him at wall level even for that, even before falling off a cliff and coming out practically intact.

These are inconsistencies that don't make sense with the Power Scale of the work as a whole.

I would say it's dependent on the verse's consistency and those who decide it.

Using Baki and Yujiro, there are just more statements, feats and overall hype for the characters and verse that put them at a Much higher Tier. A single strike that can start and/or stop an earthquake, slaps that disrupt the GPS, the U.S. Government sign treaties w/an individual, acknowledging that their forces/weaponry couldn't defeat them, allowing them to do as they want w/out facing any legal consequences, etc.

Also, it can be that a verse is wanked or downplayed by too many people and not enough objective oversight to prevent it. Not trying to name any names, but I think we all have opinions on one or two verses having some tiers that don't make sense

 

[Epyriel]

After having two forum accounts rejected for not following steps correctly, i can finally come here and say that i agree with this Also, would Epyriel's Daki calc when accepted be enough to close this crt, or would we need more staff to agree? (new here so not sure how many are needed)

We need 2 staff members who are either Bureaucrats, Administrators, or Thread Moderators to accept any given section.
So despite the overwhelming support for a majority of the proposed revisions we still haven’t gotten any votes from people of the requisite rank to accept it yet.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I would say it's dependent on the verse's consistency and those who decide it.

Using Baki and Yujiro, there are just more statements, feats and overall hype for the characters and verse that put them at a Much higher Tier. A single strike that can start and/or stop an earthquake, slaps that disrupt the GPS, the U.S. Government sign treaties w/an individual, acknowledging that their forces/weaponry couldn't defeat them, allowing them to do as they want w/out facing any legal consequences, etc.

Also, it can be that a verse is wanked or downplayed by too many people and not enough objective oversight to prevent it. Not trying to name any names, but I think we all have opinions on one or two verses having some tiers that don't make sense

I believe Xaro's point was exactly about that. Yes, Yujiro doesn't reacts to a 270km/h attack, however, a few chapters after he throws a punch that surpasses the speed of sound and creates a shock-wave. There's is also the fact that Yujiro scales above Katsumi, who's been explicitly stated to be capable of breaking the sound barrier too. So downplaying the Bakiverse below supersonic because of a single anti-feat when there are other explicit feats/statements that place the verse above that just doesn't makes sense.

The same applies to Demon Slayer, there's BOS Tanjiro evading speed-of-sound attacks while injured, Gaiden Rengoku easily blocking several supersonic bullets, Daki out-speeding an explosion, lightning dodging, etc. So the verse being below supersonic simply isn't a thing.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have much of the same thoughts as CloverDragon

 

[Epyriel]

With now a second admin vote against the Flowing Dance section, I have marked it as rejected.

Two new sections have been substituted in to replace it, although the Daki calc portion is tentative pending evaluation.

For those who have already voted, please post your votes for these two new sections.

 

[Kavopaco]

Agree with the Zenitsu and Daki calc, there's also this other calc by felpe that was accepted, it should probably upscale some lower tiers, although its travel speed so idk.

 

[Epyriel]

Agree with the Zenitsu and Daki calc, there's also this other calc by felpe that was accepted, it should probably upscale some lower tiers, although its travel speed so idk.

I elected to hold off on using it for this thread to play it safe out of the fact that the demon implied he was unusually fast for how weak he is.

 

[Machmatej]

Agree with the two new sections. Seems more consistent than the flowing dance calc anyway.

 

[Kavopaco]

It should be noted that all sound attacks shown in Demon Slayer do not move at the standard rate of sound. It's stated by Tanjiro that powerful demons have aura which physically effects the environment, in particular, both air density and pressure. Denser air = faster soundwaves. With the likes of Zohakuten, it would be immensely dense, considering a fully recovered Tanjiro stated his heart hurts from Zohakuten simply looking at him, and that he could hardly breathe.
It should also be noted, that not once has a character been hit by a soundwave when they were capable of dodging. Mitsuri was hit because she was in mid-air, as well as traveling towards him at full speed. Tanjiro was only hit by the other clones sound attack when he was holding onto him.

Just to add to the pile of counter arguments againts this ''anti feat'' (not that this needs more of, you guys have pointed out most of them) There´s also the fact that Mitsuri probably overcommited to decapitating Zohakuten and barely slashes his neck. This isnt shown in the anime and most assume she just stopped her attack. But the manga shows otherwise.


The anime doesn't really show Zohakuten regenerating his neck afterwards, so hey another counter argument. Heck, you could probably calc Mitsuri reacting to the attack (since Zohakuten mentions she must have tensed her muscles and we see her clenching her arms), and considering Zohakuten is a fusion of 4, his sound wave attacks would probably be faster than that of Urogi's ( the sound clone). But, im getting out of topic so someone pls check this crt; its getting old.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

With now a second admin vote against the Flowing Dance section, I have marked it as rejected.

Two new sections have been substituted in to replace it, although the Daki calc portion is tentative pending evaluation.

For those who have already voted, please post your votes for these two new sections.

I agree to both new sections.

I elected to hold off on using it for this thread to play it safe out of the fact that the demon implied he was unusually fast for how weak he is.

Considering the Twelve Demon Moons are the best of the best among demons, I believe the calculation I made here should scale lower-moons like Rui and Enmu, plus the Mugen Train versions of Tanjiro, Inosuke and Zenitsu.

 

[Epyriel]

Agree with the Zenitsu and Daki calc, there's also this other calc by felpe that was accepted, it should probably upscale some lower tiers, although its travel speed so idk.

Considering the Twelve Demon Moons are the best of the best among demons, I believe the calculation I made here should scale lower-moons like Rui and Enmu, plus the Mugen Train versions of Tanjiro, Inosuke and Zenitsu.

Alright, I guess that makes sense. I swapped out the Zenitsu section for those relative to Rui with the Slasher Demon calc.

Agree with the two new sections. Seems more consistent than the flowing dance calc anyway.

May I assume you are also agreeable to the replacement to the Zenitsu section?

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

Agreeing to the new changes.

 

[Epyriel]

Two new sections have been substituted in to replace it, although the Daki calc portion is tentative pending evaluation.

The Daki calc has now been accepted by a CGM and is no longer tentative. Now just waiting on sufficient admin votes.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Alright, I guess that makes sense. I swapped out the Zenitsu section for those relative to Rui with the Slasher Demon calc.


May I assume you are also agreeable to the replacement to the Zenitsu section?

Thanks! Yeah, I agree to the last changes.

 

[Nierre]

Didn't Armor share the same opinions with Clover? I recall him saying he agreed with Clover, but I don't see his name in the OP

 

[Kavopaco]

yeah i saw that too, but is he agreeing with clover's whole opinion on the crt or only on what clover thought of tanjiro's flowing dance recalc?

 

[Nierre]

Wouldn't hurt to ask for clarification

Agree with Clover. Honesty i think this is like, pretty blatantly wrong and the arguments against it are very headcanony

Armor do you only agree with Clover regarding the flowing dance recalc? Or do you agree with everything Clover said?

 

[Armorchompy]

idr

 

[Laitnetop]

Agree to new changes, they look more consistent now tbh

 

[Viott]

Agreeing to the new changes.