Demon Slayer Speed Overhaul

[Passersby]

To add to the pile, The statement implies
the detonation is initiated instantaneously upon contact, so idk what this argument is even on about

 

[SunDaGamer]

Hantengu's lightning is currently accepted as being real so calcs based off of that should be fine. The Hashira being MHS isn't farfetched narratively since their movements are depicted as being imperceptible to even a Lower Moon demon in the early portions of the series. But Tanjiro when he was still a newbie Demon Slayer being MHS is a pretty egregious outlier, an issue I can see with the calc is that the manga panel also shows that the trajectories of the different balls are adjusted to the position Tanjiro is in for the cuts he makes which doesn't make sense if the balls were all aimed at his starting position and he statue'd them all in one go, Tanjiro also considers the speed of Kyogai's drumming attacks that travel at the speed of sound to be fast and isn't completely statuing them to the extent that they'd be moving near snail speed in comparison plus he was being aided by using his smell to predict the incoming attacks before they happened

 

[Armorchompy]

you did a wonderful job sidestepping the issue as you always do, but let me baby walk you trough it

(bolded in case you needed some form of visual aid to hold your attention)

Alright man, consider this an official warning, if your next post has any hint of this behavior we're going to RVR

...the "obvious" huh, should have known you'd say that, saying "hey this is obvious" isn't evidence, it's side stepping the necessity to provide any, aka, you're begging the question, and this is also an appeal to common sens

actually the "obvious" is that he statued all of them and moved several meters all the while they were motionless to cut them all, because the balls appeared motionless as he was moving several meters to slash all of them

I don't think you understood what I was saying. The manga contains no evidence that he "statued" them. There is no panel that shows them all being in the same place before he started moving, there is nobody remarking that he's statuing them, this is simply factual.

you said he was running around cutting them up, yeah?
in that case, how isn't he blitzing them, if they're all literally motionless as you can see from the manga panel, something that entails by defintion that he is hyperblitzing them

They're motionless in the manga panel because we as a civilization don't yet have the technology to make ink move around pages, so by default not much is ever going to move in any picture. Nothing in that panel implies they're not moving at all compared to Tanjiro.

well, anyways, as i said, you'd have to provide evidence UFO's animating sequence is faulty, which you never will, which doesn't matter, as it would fall short, because my interpretation is how UFO decided to animate the scene while the animating process was supervised by the author

That is just fishing for an excuse to reject it, the manga can’t draw 1000 still shots of the same scene to confirm this, and the anime doesn’t contradict anything in the manga. By this standard we would need to reject pretty much every anime calc on the website.

"involved in checking over the scenarios, character designs, settings, and overall they are intimately involved in the anime adaptation process" - They never say she supervised the animation itself, sounds more like she was involved in the earlier parts of the adaptation. This doesn't mean the feat is invalid, it's just not in the primary canon, and that casts a degree of doubt on it when it's such a massively higher feat than anything else they'd scale to.

...Black powder can be ignited by friction yes, but that thing requires more than just "slight friction", a knife could potentially generate enough friction to ignite it, somehow, but for friction to ignite black powder, a suffiicient enough heat output needs to be generated by the rubbing or impact to raise the temperature of the powder to its ignition point, which is around 300C, to cause ignition using a knife would require a significant force and speed to generate the necessary frictional heat, not "slight friction", simply grazing black powder with a knife isn't gonna anything, i have no idea what you're on about

So besides the fact that these people are attacking with tier 8 force and hypersonic speeds, and that is absolutely enough force to cause gunpowder to ignite... What then? Why else do you think it's exploding, magic? The fact that it's (according to you) more volatile than IRL gunpowder (whether because it's modified for that purpose or because the mangaka just didn't realize) doesn't change the basic process it has to follow to explode.

...the bombs were stated to literally explode and i repeat explode from the slightest friction produced by a swrod slash, not ignite but explode

... Yes, the first makes the second happen. It's like saying that a gunshot wound "makes someone die, not bleed out, but die".

oh so you have a basis with which you judge how much "higher" the explosive used in the calc is than the mystical bs gun powder we have no information on, please do tell, where is it?

We do not have a basis, friend, that is precisely why we don't just assume random numbers. For all I know it could be FTL or Supersonic, that doesn't mean you can go and assume random shit. This isn't something you can argue, this is a standard of the website.

We don’t know how fast a “special gunpowder” explodes and the standard assumption instruction on the “Explosion Speed Calculations” page is to assume TNT where an otherwise unknown explosive is used. And considering this powder is explicitly made for killing demons it definitely would be weird to assume it is as slow as black powder, one of the slowest explosive materials in existence.

But this isn't an unknown explosive, the closest analogue to "special gunpowder" is still gunpowder, not an unrelated explosive. This is pre-WW2 Japan, by the way, they did not have much in the way of explosive technology, I don't think they were able to pick and choose that well.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Il fulmine di Hantengu è attualmente accettato come reale, quindi i calcoli basati su quello dovrebbero andare bene. L'Hashira essendo MHS non è inverosimile dal momento che i loro movimenti lo sono raffigurato come impercettibile anche a un demone della Luna Bassa nelle prime parti della serie. Ma Tanjiro quando era ancora un principiante Demon Slayer essendo MHS è un outlier piuttosto eclatante, un problema che posso vedere con il calc è che il pannello manga mostra anche che le traiettorie delle diverse palle sono adattate alla posizione in cui Tanjiro è in cerca dei tagli che ha senso, il che non ha senso se le palle fossero tutte mirate alla sua posizione di partenza e le avrebbe fatte diventare tutte in una volta, Tanjiro considera anche la velocità di Kyogai 's drumming attacca quello viaggiare alla velocità del suono essere veloce e non li sta completamente dichiarando nella misura in cui si sarebbero spostati vicino alla velocità della lumaca in confronto, inoltre è stato aiutato usando il suo odore per prevedere gli attacchi in arrivo prima che

From my POV there is no reason to think that it is an Outlier or smth. And I don't see why the fact that Tanjiro was a "premature" swordsman changes anything. There are characters who in general in fiction their first feat is dodging a ray of light.

Then let's analyze the Outliers category in vsbw since this is the argument to debunk Tanjiro's calculation.

Let's analyze


1) The event has been explained. Tanjiro has an amplifier and his speed increases, the first criterion for not considering an outlier.

2) It is not contradicted, in fact, as I said in previous messages, it is very consistent, I will not rewrite from scratch, so I will simply copy the message.

"To make a mini recap, Tanjiro is able to move at least at Hypersonic speeds dodging kyogai attacks during those chapters without breathing and with breathing he amplifies a lot.

Moving forward there is another consistency, Tanjiro unlocks constant total concentration breathing, and also as it is stated, he amplifies himself every day continuing to use breathing, and arrives in the SSV arc, to dodge lightning. I do not see a crazy inconsistency, on the contrary, everything is very consistent. Even with the statements regarding Zenitsu."

3) As I said, there is no inconsistency, it is useless to consider it an Outlier when there is no contradiction.

4) There is consistency here too. Tanjiro in fact unlocks constant total breathing, which is practically the same one he used in the previous chapters, only he couldn't do it constantly, then he manages to dodge lightning. So everything is consistent. There are never anti feats for a Tanjiro when he amps. Every time it is related to a demon, and then he amps, he blitzes the demon with ease, demonstrating no contradictions to the amp. Considering him an Outlier is useless and also goes against the standards of vsbw, so I ask to be objective and consider the amp as valid.

Moving forward, yes the sense of smell helps Tanjiro, this does not change that he dodges attacks even if they scale relative or higher to the attacks. Yes I will use the anime because it adapts the manga and from the manga we only see the dodge already completed not how it happens, so to understand what happened in the meantime we have to check the anime to have consistency. Then Tanjiro constantly outspeed Kyogai attacks and let's remember he was in base form + with broken bones. And doesnt debunk the amp. Here's the fight if u want to check too, he react from offguard attacks, and outspeed other attacks constantly. Also, little thing, Kyogai can increase the speed of his attacks, as stated, the sound becomes faster.


Then no well the manga scene, as already said does not show anything. It is useless to take a panel like that since they are drawings. The anime shows how everything happens, and it is useless to appeal to the manga. Even if it is the original work for certain things the animation is better. The manga can be used for sentences etc, even scenes if they are different obviously, it is the main source. But here there are no different scenes, the anime adapts the manga, and the anime is followed by Gotouge.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I'm NOT saying that these characters are slower than the speed of sound at all [...]

You were arguing they were getting shot, and I just explained how these demons were, indeed, capable of blocking these bullets. I never said that you suggested they were slower than sound.

I will be for real here, this won't get anything above supersonic

Please read again

[...] Sekido did block these bullets, which pretty much shows they actually were capable of doing so.

The point was they are capable of blocking these bullets, that was all.

Because he want to finish Genya in that scene and he wanted to finish the job as fast as possible

How does this matters? Aizetsu wasn't in a hurry, the only one who was being serious is Sekido, the rest of them were simply toying around with Tanjiro, Genya and Nezuko. Getting shot and regenerating immediately after will only steal a demon less than a second. And there's no statement of Aizetsu wanting to kill Genya as fast as possible.

The speed of a bullet comes mainly from gunpowder, not the material of the bullet. Plus, its not implied that nichirin is some kind of extra light steel or anything, its just a weird steel that allow someone to kill a demon without the sun.

Uzui's blades can cause literal explosions, the blades turn red when your grip strength is powerful enough, they can burn and slow down the regeneration magical demons, they can cut through rock, steel and diamond, they change color depending on the user, and I might be forgetting some extra stuff.
Nichirin is a magical material with magical properties. If you are suggesting the bullets from Genya's supernatural shotgun behave on the same way as the bullets from regular weapons, you are the one who must bring up the evidence.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Va bene amico, considera questo un avvertimento ufficiale, se il tuo prossimo post ha qualche accenno a questo comportamento andremo a RVR

Non credo che tu abbia capito cosa stavo dicendo. Il manga non contiene prove del fatto che li abbia "statuati". Non esiste un pannello che mostri che sono tutti nello stesso posto prima che inizi a muoversi, non c'è nessuno che osservi che li sta statuendo, questo è semplicemente reale.


Sono immobili nel pannello dei manga perché noi come civiltà non abbiamo ancora la tecnologia per far muovere l'inchiostro attorno alle pagine, quindi per impostazione predefinita non si muoverà mai molto in nessuna immagine. Nulla in quel pannello implica che non si muovono affatto rispetto a Tanjiro.


"coinvolti nel controllo degli scenari, dei disegni dei personaggi, delle imprecazioni e del composto sono intimo convolti nel processo di adattamento degli anime"- Non dico mai che ha supervisionato l'animazione di stessa, suona più come se fosse una moneta nelle parti precedenti dell'adattamento. Questo non significa che l'impresa non sia valida, non è solo nel canone primario e che ci mette un certo dubbio che è un'impresa enorme alta di qualsiasi altra cosa a cui si può cavalcare.

Quindi oltre al fatto che questo perseverano attacca con forza di soggiorno 8 e velocità ipersoniche, e questa è una forza sufficiente per far rispettare la polvere da sparo ... E allora? Perché altrimenti pensi che stia esplodendo, magia? Il fatto che sia (secondo te) più volatile della polvere da sparo IRL (sia perché è modificato a tale scopo o perché il mangaka non se ne è reso conto) non cambia il processo di base che deve seguire per esempio.

... Sì, il primo fa accadere il secondo. È come una ferita da arma da fuoco "fa morire qualcuno, no Sanguinare, Ma Morire".

Non abbiamo una base, amico, è proprio per questo che non assume numeri soli casuali. Per quanto ne so, potrebbe essere FTL o Supersonic, ciò non significa che puoi andare ad assumere merda casual. Questo non è qualcosa che puoi discutere, questo è uno standard del sito web.

Ma questo non è un esplosivo spremuto, l'analogo più vicino alla "polvere da sparo speciale" è ancora polvere da sparo, non in particolare non correlato. Questo è il Giappone pre-WW2, un proposito, non avevano molto in termini di tecnologia esplosiva, non credo che fossero in grado di scegliere bene.

But there is no need. The anime is canon, also the manga can't do it because it's a drawing, you can't know how it went. Taking the anime is the most logical choice also it was followed by Gotouge, so most likely he also agreed to do that animated scene in that way because maybe it was also the goal in the manga. Then, the panel is taken without context. Susamaru, throws the balls, and Tanjiro is so fast that he cuts them all without them even moving. Everything fits together, and it is not a stage effect just because you say so. Clearly it is not, you can see with your eyes the balls being cut, you can see that while Tanjiro moves the balls do not move because he was too much faster, you can also see that P. Blitz Susamaru and there are no contradictions, saying that it is a stage effect has no basis.

Yeah well it doesn't change that gunpowder can be different. Saying that in Japan they had this and that doesn't change anything, because it doesn't change the fact that they can have a different special gunpowder, like demons and strange abilities exist.

 

[Epyriel]

But this isn't an unknown explosive, the closest analogue to "special gunpowder" is still gunpowder, not an unrelated explosive. This is pre-WW2 Japan, by the way, they did not have much in the way of explosive technology, I don't think they were able to pick and choose that well.

You realize there are a multitude of explosives used and called gunpowder right? But if you want to pick a specific analogue contrary to what the instruction page says, two of the most common gunpowders of the early 1900s are Single-Base Powder (made of nitrocellulose with a detonation velocity of 7300m/s) and Double-Base Powder (made of a combination of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin with a detonation velocity of 7700m/s). Both of these are faster than TNT and would only further upgrade the calc.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I understand it's just support for a different rating but the bomb calculation is questionable too, given it doesn't take into account the time the gunpowder takes to ignite, which is a noticeable addition to such a small timeframe [What I'm linking here is an extremely exaggerated situation, obviously it's only a fraction of a second in this case as it does with a bullet, but I think it demonstrates pretty well that gunpowder doesn't take zero time flat to catch fire]. Also the calc says "Since the type of explosive used by Tengen is unknown, we'll use the standard assumption of TNT" and that is just entirely wrong given they're literally posting a scan that says it's gunpowder. First source I found says 170 to 630 m/s, which is quite the drop.

Quoting the document you linked:

Black powder is a deflagrating explosive.

TNT does not deflagrates, it detonates. Deflagration is much less powerful than detonation, and a few grams of black powder will not cause an explosion as big as the one seen on the feat.

And then the ignition has to spread across all of it for it to all explode. It's not like the microsecond the edge of the bomb gets grazed all of the gunpowder is made telepathically aware that it's supposed to explode all at once.

Notice the calculation is just about this. We didn't assumed the bombs exploded in the exact same moment they got sliced up, but rather we considered that detonation was triggered within the explosive material at that moment. That is, the explosive material was being detonated, in other words, there was a shockwave traveling through the explosive itself, not through the air, as the explosion hadn't been released yet.

 

[Epyriel]

Tanjiro also considers the speed of Kyogai's drumming attacks that travel at the speed of sound to be fast and isn't completely statuing them to the extent that they'd be moving near snail speed in comparison plus he was being aided by using his smell to predict the incoming attacks before they happened

Tanjiro was not using a breathing technique there, didn’t have Total Concentration Breathing: Constant, was heavily injured before the fight even began, and was additionally heavily disoriented from the room spinning like mad, yet still was dodging these attacks. Considering he then blitzes Kyogai with a breathing technique (despite still being heavily injured and disoriented), I don’t think we can really cap his breathing technique speed as relative to sound in order to discount the Flowing Dance calc.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I agree with the OP by the way.