Demon Slayer Speed Overhaul

[Passersby]

He should have the reaction time, then, to view all her attacks as if they're this stationary, no? Or do Breathing Techniques magically amp reaction times too?

I don't see why not they can't amp preception speed, idk why add the word "magically" when this is literal magic disguised as breathing but from the fact that he couldn't cut her neck in that state it's clear he can't control that speed that well, but for him to have a rough idea what he is doing at all a preception amp is mandatory

The more this goes on, the more things start to be created out of thin air to try and create some kind of consistency here

...like what?
This isn't out of thin air, this is observable shenannigans in the series like bruh

 

[CloverDragon03]

With such an amp to reaction time then Tanjiro should not be having trouble evading Susamaru's and Yahaba's attacks. He should be effortlessly statuing them. But lo and behold, that doesn't happen. It's almost like the basis of the MHS Flowing Dance calc is flawed or something...

I remain staunchly opposed to using that calc. The rest is fine

 

[Passersby]

This is the size of the explosions that Uzui's gunpownder create. Theres no way that Genya's gun can hold this inside of them

I wont reply further for a while.

No one said the gun powder had to be the same?

There can literally be a different version used, hence why I said the concept of special gun powder existing makes your argument null and void

 

[Passersby]

With such an amp to reaction time then Tanjiro should not be having trouble evading Susamaru's and Yahaba's attacks. He should be effortlessly statuing them. But lo and behold, that doesn't happen. It's almost like the basis of the MHS Flowing Dance calc is flawed or something...

...because it's a temporary amp

Idk, was that hard to get lol

 

[CloverDragon03]

So he just magically gets this amp when using Flowing Dance and nothing else. Clearly it's not Breathing Techniques as a whole because he's not statuing them with other Breathing Techniques, so it has to be just Flowing Dance.

...But that contradicts the notion that this is a thing for all Breathing Techniques, doesn't it?

 

[Epyriel]

Only one of these says "physical abilities" while the other two explicitly mention strength

Also, I'm not saying MHS/MHS+ is wrong for later on, with the lightning dodging feats. Those are valid. What I don't consider valid is the MHS speed for Flowing Dance at the beginning of the series, when even the speed of sound is relevant

So... We are just creating things in an attempt to create some form of internal consistency when the simple solution is that the MHS Flowing Dance calc shouldn't be used.

Yeah no...

Assuming breathing techniques, which can amplify everything from how fast you can move to the speed that your body clots for some reason doesn’t scale your perception speed accordingly is such a weird and unsubstantiated assumption, when literally everything the series tells us gives no reason for us to think that.

And that's why Tanjiro, having the reaction speed to do Flowing Dance, is always statuing Susamaru and Yahaba and their attacks right?

Oh wait...

(Let's upgrade them to MHS too since Tanjiro comments on their sheer speed actually)

Not in base, obviously. I have no idea how it seems at all implausible that speed is drastically increased with a breathing technique when literally every fight indicates that.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Only one of these says "physical abilities" while the other two explicitly mention strength

Also, I'm not saying MHS/MHS+ is wrong for later on, with the lightning dodging feats. Those are valid. What I don't consider valid is the MHS speed for Flowing Dance at the beginning of the series, when even the speed of sound is relevant

Exactly, which means everything else, physical ability is also speed, otherwise he would have said physical strength.

 

[Passersby]

So he just magically gets this amp when using Flowing Dance and nothing else. Clearly it's not Breathing Techniques as a whole because he's not statuing them with other Breathing Techniques, so it has to be just Flowing Dance.

The sun breath amps pretty much do the same, with the multiple instances where akaza's fist is a cm away from tanjiro's neck and ge seemingly teleports away from that location all while blitzing the guy


Same thing happens when he combines water and sun breathing, where he also blitzes gyutaro by cutting both his hands off and we know gyutaro can Statue tanjiro from his first showings in the anime

 

[Epyriel]

So he just magically gets this amp when using Flowing Dance and nothing else. Clearly it's not Breathing Techniques as a whole because he's not statuing them with other Breathing Techniques, so it has to be just Flowing Dance.

...But that contradicts the notion that this is a thing for all Breathing Techniques, doesn't it?

Flowing Dance is seen as one of the faster water forms outside Giyu’s eleventh, yes. But I would remind you every time he uses breathing techniques against Yahaba he is actively being grappled and disoriented by his blood demon art.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Not in base, obviously. I have no idea how it seems at all implausible that speed is drastically increased with a breathing technique when literally every fight indicates that.

But Tanjiro's commenting on their speed despite having a MHS technique so clearly they should also scale

Also, there's a difference between speed being increased and speed getting hundreds upon hundreds of times faster. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this is not it.

Lastly: Is he statuing these two with his other Breathing Techniques? Answer quickly

The sun breath amps pretty much do the same, with the multiple instances where akaza's fist is a cm away from tanjiro's neck and ge seemingly teleports away from that location all while blitzing the guy


Same thing happens when he combines water and sun breathing, where he also blitzes gyutaro by cutting both his hands off and we know gyutaro can Statue tanjiro from his first showings in the anime

I don't doubt there's a speed increase at play, but one of this magnitude is unsupported, especially given the fact that he literally only shows this level of speed with Flowing Dance (and that calc might even be faulty to begin with, as it may be an artistic choice rather than him actually statuing the balls Susamaru throws, because why didn't he just do this all the time instead of using different breathing techniques [and going by the final shot, Tanjiro's in multiple places at once, so I guess let's give him Multilocation too, or even Afterimage Creation])

Flowing Dance is seen as one of the faster water forms outside Giyu’s eleventh, yes. But I would remind you every time he uses breathing techniques against Yahaba he is actively being grappled and disoriented by his blood demon art.

You're acting like this significantly impacts his speed. I've seen the fight. This isn't something that drastically affects his speed. And again, we're just creating things atp

I'd like for Demon Slayer to be represented as it is, rather than creating a hyperbolized caricature of it

 

[Passersby]

I don't doubt there's a speed increase at play, but one of this magnitude is unsupported, especially given the fact that he literally only shows this level of speed with Flowing Dance

Which means he can only reach it when using Flowing Dance ig?

and that calc might even be faulty to begin with, as it may be an artistic choice rather than him actually statuing the balls Susamaru throws, because why didn't he just do this all the time instead of using different breathing techniques

Artistic choice you'd have to prove, and he can't control the speed as I said, as you can observe from the fact that he didn't aim for her neck, a constant spam of this form would lead to huge stamina consumption and for a result that isn't even guaranteed, not to mention the fact that he can only use total concentration breathing for a short ammount of time when he used this, which is probably what allowed him to reach those ungodly speeds to begin with lol

The Breath of the sun/HK seems to be the one thing that still amps him significantly even after learning that

 

[CloverDragon03]

Which means he can only reach it when using Flowing Dance ig?

But I thought all Breathing Techniques amp speed to stupefying levels?

Artistic choice you'd have to prove, and he can't control the speed as I said, as you can observe from the fact that he didn't aim for her neck, a constant spam of this form would lead to huge stamina consumption and for a result that isn't even guaranteed, not to mention the fact that he can only use total concentration breathing for a short ammount of time when he used this, which is probably what allowed him to reach those ungodly speeds to begin with lol

The "probably" is telling. You're making inferences based in an attempt to make this consistent with itself, when it just isn't. It also doesn't change the fact that by our very definition, this would be like... objectively an outlier. A massive speed amp hardly supported by the story and rife with contradictions by the narrative.

"Prove it's an artistic choice" Okay so we're gonna give Tanjiro Multilocation/Afterimage Creation based on this, right? Insane too that he can cut without even moving based on the static images of him

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I guess the issue is that we don't have a second instance of Flowing Dance or a Massively Hypersonic feat from the same key to compare this to.

 

[KnyRaizn]

But Tanjiro's commenting on their speed despite having a MHS technique so clearly they should also scale

Also, there's a difference between speed being increased and speed getting hundreds upon hundreds of times faster. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this is not it.

Lastly: Is he statuing these two with his other Breathing Techniques? Answer quickly

I don't doubt there's a speed increase at play, but one of this magnitude is unsupported, especially given the fact that he literally only shows this level of speed with Flowing Dance (and that calc might even be faulty to begin with, as it may be an artistic choice rather than him actually statuing the balls Susamaru throws, because why didn't he just do this all the time instead of using different breathing techniques [and going by the final shot, Tanjiro's in multiple places at once, so I guess let's give him Multilocation too, or even Afterimage Creation])

You're acting like this significantly impacts his speed. I've seen the fight. This isn't something that drastically affects his speed. And again, we're just creating things atp

I'd like for Demon Slayer to be represented as it is, rather than creating a hyperbolized caricature of it

Where is Tanjiro supposedly commenting on his speed?

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Tanjiro isn't massively faster than these demons

Not on his base, but breathing forms have been shown to momentarily boost slayers' stats. And WB 3rd form was specified to focus on footwork too.

And how they being MHS is consistent when even Upper Moons can get shot

This has already been debunked a lot of times if I remember correctly.

To begin with, why would Aizetsu dodge/block the shot in the first place? He was not the main body, so getting beheaded meant no problem at all. There is no reason to believe Aizetsu even tried to block or dodge.

Second, it was explicitly stated these demons were purposely letting themselves get their heads cut off.

Third, Sekido did block these bullets, which pretty much shows they actually were capable of doing so.

Fourth, the shotgun and the bullets are made of nichirin, which is a supernatural material with supernatural properties, so there’s no actual reason to believe the bullets of Genya’s shotgun are as fast as the bullets of a regular weapon.

and use sound attacks?

How is this important if I may ask? There were very few times these sonic wave attacks ever landed, and in every occasion the characters that got hit were either unable to dodge or being restrained by Hantengu in some way. There are simply no inconsistencies here.


How is MHS inconsistent when dodging literal lightning is all around the place?

 

[Epyriel]

But Tanjiro's commenting on their speed despite having a MHS technique so clearly they should also scale

Why? It is clear he both struggles with their speed in base, and that they are significantly faster than other demons he have faced. Why wouldn’t he comment on their speed in such circumstances, even if he has a momentary technique to overcome that?

Also, there's a difference between speed being increased and speed getting hundreds upon hundreds of times faster. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this is not it.

Lastly: Is he statuing these two with his other Breathing Techniques? Answer quickly

This is likely more due to the fact that the best calc for the UR demons is a massive lowball which assumes even the Swamp Demon who is incomparably faster to regular humans only moves as fast as peak human speed. Regardless the difference in speed in UR is very much shown to be quite drastic when bringing breathing techniques into play, as shown by UR demons consistently keeping up with slayers in base, and consistently getting blitzed by breathing techniques.

Lastly: Is he statuing these two with his other Breathing Techniques? Answer quickly

In the manga, despite being disoriented and grappled, he pretty much instantly closes the distance and decapitates Yahaba (who couldn’t dodge at all) with a two part combo of Whirlpool and Water Wheel (after stating he needs a breathing technique to keep up with the arrows). The anime shows much the same (just a bit dragged out), with the added comment of Tanjiro remarking that keeping the arrows wrapped up makes his sword feel heavy.

As for Susamaru, he only uses two techniques against her, first Drop Ripple Thrust which the anime shows adjusts Tanjiro’s perception of the incoming Temari to a crawl, followed by Flowing Dance which statues them.

 

[Passersby]

But I thought all Breathing Techniques amp speed to stupefying levels?

never said that, well, not here anyways

The "probably" is telling. You're making inferences based in an attempt to make this consistent with itself, when it just isn't.

you're coming to that assumption from me using in verse provided information about the abilities and limitations of the power system used, the "probably" here is used to imply "most likely" as stated that Total Concentration Breathing users are a galaxy away from the non users as demonstrated by tanjiro feeling conifdent enough to decapitate rui using water breathing where once he failed to make a single scratch on his neck even with the HK supporting him, so no, i'm actually using the series while you're trying to handwabe my explantions as nothing without providing any sort of basis as to why that's the case

It also doesn't change the fact that by our very definition, this would be like... objectively an outlier. A massive speed amp hardly supported by the story and rife with contradictions by the narrative.

"hardly supported", define that, what counts as "supported" and whay doesn't and how is my explanation lacking the means to justify it?

"Prove it's an artistic choice" Okay so we're gonna give Tanjiro Multilocation/Afterimage Creation based on this, right? Insane too that he can cut without even moving based on the static images of him

how does that prove it's an artistic choice?
that's literally what happens in the manga



you're literally tweakin

 

[CloverDragon03]

Where is Tanjiro supposedly commenting on his speed?

Here

how does that prove it's an artistic choice?
that's literally what happens in the manga

you're literally tweakin

Oh nah we're actually suggesting Multilocation/Afterimage Creation from this. Absolutely cooked

Also it's just as much of an artistic choice in the manga. That doesn't change anything

Snip

I really don't want to go in circles, but I'm not saying Breathing Techniques don't amp speed. Just not to this degree. The calc is faulty and shouldn't be used imo.

I think it's clear what my stance is, and these arguments are doing nothing to sway me at all, so I'll be taking my leave here

 

[Passersby]

Oh nah we're actually suggesting Multilocation/Afterimage Creation from this. Absolutely cooked

Also it's just as much of an artistic choice in the manga. That doesn't change anything

no, i'm asking how that proves the way ufo chose to animate this is an artistic choice?
as in something not supported within the manga, instead of animating the panel faithfully

 

[CloverDragon03]

no, i'm asking how that proves the way ufo chose to animate this is an artistic choice?
as in something not supported within the manga, instead of animating the panel faithfully

The panel is an artistic choice, which the anime adapted faithfully. It's not supported in either medium, unless you wanna say Tanjiro was actually in multiple places at once

Taking my leave fr now, I really don't like when things get circular and I think I've made my point

 

[Passersby]

The panel is an artistic choice

which part of it was, exactly?
and prove your claims while you're at it

Taking my leave fr now, I really don't like when things get circular and I think I've made my point

of course you will

but whatever

 

[Armorchompy]

Agree with Clover. Honesty i think this is like, pretty blatantly wrong and the arguments against it are very headcanony

 

[Tllmbrg]

Disagree FRA

 

[KnyRaizn]

Here

Oh nah we're actually suggesting Multilocation/Afterimage Creation from this. Absolutely cooked

Also it's just as much of an artistic choice in the manga. That doesn't change anything

I really don't want to go in circles, but I'm not saying Breathing Techniques don't amp speed. Just not to this degree. The calc is faulty and shouldn't be used imo.

I think it's clear what my stance is, and these arguments are doing nothing to sway me at all, so I'll be taking my leave here

Why shouldn't they. Literally every one of your points makes no sense.

1 " they amp the speed but not that way " and what would be the inconsistency here? Literally Tanjiro amps himself and manages to reach that speed. Also you are assuming that Tanjiro's speed does not even exceed Hypersonic or smth, when a Tanjiro with broken ribs and less than perfect movements, dodges and Blitzes a demon that emits slashes at the speed of sound, and remember that the sound in wood propagates with a speed that reaches Hypersonic, and when he uses his Blitzed Kyogai technique, everything fits perfectly. There is no contradiction in this, as the guys showed you before, there is no contradiction, he using an amp and then blitzes the demons. Then we do not have to prove anything lol, there must not be an amp stated, the amp is fine to take it from that calculation and as long as it is not contradicted you cannot say that it is an amp that comes out randomly. We have already explained it to you, he amplifies his physical stats, and his overall strength increases, nothing more nothing less, to say that for you is an exaggerated amp, dont debunk anything, at this moment what you says is useless. According to this logic every amp should not be taken into consideration because it seems too high, that's not how it works. It's fiction everything can happen without any problem and what you say does not attack the argument. Cooked

To make a mini recap, Tanjiro is able to move at least at Hypersonic speeds dodging kyogai attacks during those chapters without breathing and with breathing he amplifies a lot.

Moving forward there is another consistency, Tanjiro unlocks constant total concentration breathing, and also as it is stated, he amplifies himself every day continuing to use breathing, and arrives in the SSV arc, to dodge lightning. I do not see a crazy inconsistency, on the contrary, everything is very consistent. Even with the statements regarding Zenitsu.

2 How can you say it's a stage effect when literally the balloons are still and she doesn't even notice she's been blitzed... I mean this is consistent lol. Idc if for you they are simply stage effects, talk to the staff then and have all the feats regarding these situations deleted, if apparently you consider the afterimages a stage effect and the still balloons while he is literally moving another stage effect. It's funny how apparently the feats are considered good when a character dodges or runs etc and the bullets are otherwise stationary, and it's very funny how on DS they say "they're stage effects" like bruh. Plus stop spamming fallacy spamming claims, thx.

What you are doing is called ratting lol, this argument is useless and does not debunk anything that has been said.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Disagree FRA

Okay I didn't wanna come back but the only thing I disagree with is the Flowing Dance calc being used. Everything else is fine by my estimate. Just figured you should know that just in case