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I agree with this one, and it should only be supporting evidence. Vulkin doesn't count as a reliable statement, because they are so naive that they believe attacking Frisk heals them. Vulkin cheerfully saying "thunder" isn't the same as the text box's narration describing the onomatopoeia as actually having occurred.
The circumstances may be unrealistic, but what's stopping Vulkin's magic from simulating a cloud and lightning in an unrealistic circumstance? I side with the other people in this discussion on how other monsters magically generate things, including electricity, as having their realistic properties despite their unrealistic origin.Second Argument
My rebuttal for the second one is that we cannot know if the cloud from which the lightning bolts are shot is really one, or at least that it works like a real cloud that'd shoot real lightning. First, the cloud adorns a smile and its shape is pretty much simplified, as you can see in the following picture (was taken from a blog):
I know, some could say that it's just a game and that it has to be simplified; others could also say the smile shape is a coincidence and that this is a cloud. And as such, that's when the main part of this rebuttal comes: lightning-charged clouds cannot form underground. The following screenshot will illustrate my thoughts:
Clouds that form at the ground level are not any clouds, they form what is called "fog," and fog is not charged in lightning (it is a pretty obvious thing but, for those who want details, maybe this Quora can help you). However, let's remember that we are not merely at the ground level, but also in the Underground, a place that is even under the ground and where the only natural clouds one may see are fogs. Reminding what the verse page says (I always bold in the quotes the parts that interest us):
In Undertale, players control a human child who has climbed Mt. Ebott and fallen into the Underground: a large, secluded region underneath the surface of the Earth separated by a magic barrier.
This means that the cloud created by Vulkin can only be of magical nature, or else it would be a fog and would thus not be able to shoot lightning. However, if the cloud is magical, so the lightning it shoots is too, meaning the lightning bolts do not act as real lightning and, thus, we cannot use lightning formulas for speed.
Cloud-to-ground lightning is considered to be real lightning, as long there is nothing suggesting otherwise.
No one denies that monsters use magic and magical versions of natural things, but what's denied is the magic simulating inauthentic versions of those natural things. Given how there is evidence of magically simulated things having the properties those things naturally have, it's consistent to treat them that way. For example, while magical electricity and natural electricity can both power up a machine, I see no reason to fuss over whether the electricity is magical or natural when it serves its realistic purpose as electricity either way.
Regarding your other questions:
- I think the point about Pyrope was that Frisk turning up the thermostat makes the monster "hotter." This indicates the monster, in flames yet made of magic, was already hot, and Frisk increasing the areas heat by natural means was applicable with Pyrope's heat.
- I think you're right about the clip of Papyrus' bones being in a box, but as ShionAH pointed out before, the Annoying Dog likes to chew them, which real dogs do because bones have minerals and nutrients they can get, so Papyrus' bones have realistic properties. I can see the argument that this doesn't matter since the Annoying Dog is made of magic too, but if that's true, it's weird how the Annoying Dog cares so much about taking Papyrus' bones specifically. It's more than likely that the joke is the Annoying Dog takes bones because he's a dog.
The fourth argument from the other thread wasn't to prove Vulkin's lightning is realistic more so than it was to update people on how it wouldn't be as out of place to consider the lighting as realistic, unlike past circumstances. With Vulkin's attack potency being closer to the energy lighting would produce, it's just one less reason to deem it as inconsistent for their lighting to have realistic properties. It's indeed not worth mentioning, since there's nothing to disprove and, at least as far as I'm aware, no one is using it as a leading point.
