Possible Pokemon Speed Downgrade.

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

What's LGPE?

 

[Drite77]

Let's GO Pikachu and Eevee

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Also Solar beam has been shown inconsistently throughout the Pokémon games. In some of the games it's not even shown to be a beam at all.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The animation hasn't changed since the 3D era began.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

That doesn't mean we should disregard the animation the move originated from and the games leading up to the 3D era.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That doesn't mean we should disregard the animation the move originated from and the games leading up to the 3D era.

It does when not only is the number of "inconsistencies" smaller (like seriously, your only talking about like 2 games where its not a beam), but far less recent than the 3-D animation is.

 

[Drite77]

I mean, the RBY games looks like a beam for me

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Here's pansage using solar beam on axew. It's not even a beam. Skip to 4:10.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't get your point. Other than G3, they're all not disproving anything. And G3 alone doesn't disprove everything given about SB.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Here's pansage using solar beam on axew. It's not even a beam. Skip to 4:10.

You mean the one where Cilan says that he's using his moves as lightly as possible, and is earlier shown shooting a single (as opposed to the normal dozens) bullet seed in a lob? That SB was purposefully meant to be puny.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You mean the one where Cilan says that he's using his moves as lightly as possible, and is earlier shown shooting a single (as opposed to the normal dozens) bullet seed in a lob? That SB was purposefully meant to be puny.

THIS.

Cilan and Pansage were literally holding back as much as possible here because Axew was not used to battling yet. It was a training battle. Pansage was using kid gloves against Axew here, so please dont even try to use this as a counter argument.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

That doesn't change anything. The point is that Solar Beam has been shown inconsistently throughout the Pokémon series.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That doesn't change anything. The point is that Solar Beam has been shown inconsistently throughout the Pokémon series.

It absolutely does.

Using a moment where the user purposefully makes the move to be like that is not an inconsistency in the slightest and its, no offense, laughable that your trying to make it seem as such. Its being really dishonest.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Here's pansage doing it again.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I'm being dishonest? You're cherry-picking to try and get a speed upgrade.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Other points were brought up, and Kep seems to have accepted the points that justify Solar Beam to be SOL

Where?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'm being dishonest? You're cherry-picking to try and get a speed upgrade.

By using a moment where the move is purposely being used as lightly as possible? And legitimately arguing that its an actual inconsistency like the move is being used to its full capacity? Yes that is being dishonest.

Should we downgrade Naruto for using a rasenshuriken the size of his finger, which based off your argument, is inconsistent in comparison to a real one?

 

[Drite77]

Sorry. Took time to get them and had other crap to do. Anyway, here are the scans I talked about along with another damning piece of evidence.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Solar_Beam_(move)#In_the_manga

This first one is a link to Bulbapedias page on Solar Beam. I can't find the scan from the actual manga itself because none of the manga sites I know have this manga on it, but Bulbapedias page shows the scan I'm talking about and explains how Solar Beam is being used. Clefairy is holding a reflective item in its hands where sunlight is being absorbed into it and then bounced off of it to indlict damage on an Umbreon.

https://jb2448.info/picture.php?/37663/category/1152

These next scans come from the Electric Tale of Pikachu manga. A group of gloom use solar beam and aim them against each other, which creates a strong flash of bright light. This is probably the weakest evidence I found but it should be evidence nonetheless.

https://jb2448.info/picture.php?/41240/category/1124

This is the strongest and most damning evidence that I stumbled upon. In the Phantom Theif manga, when Lucario and his trainer try entering a house thats locked by a black solar panel, the trainer has his Tangrowth use Solar Beam to create a flash of bright light that gets absorbed right into the panel to have it activate and let them inside. Following that, the trainer then comments on how Solar Beam is the perfect attack for that because solar panels are sensors that "react to the light of the sun".

Besides the bolded out part at the end being self-explanatory, this is pretty strong evidence that Solar Beam itself is pure sunlight and not just some converted energy. Because if it wasnt pure sunlight, how would the attack be able to be absorbed into the solar panel, which explicitly and strictly absorbs only pure sunlight?

Kinda breaking the rules for quoting a wall of text, but here it is, i guess

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Why are you bringing up Naruto? Anyway I agree that Solar Beam isn't light speed. Doom Desire is obviously a massive no go as it bends which debunks it being light.

 

[Drite77]

Eh, whatever about Solar Beam. But Signal Beam has no evidence to be lightspeed.

Kep seems to accept, since he didn't tried to debunk Xerkser arguments

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Why are you bringing up Naruto? Anyway I agree that Solar Beam isn't light speed. Doom Desire is obviously a massive no go as it bends which debunks it being light.

And this already tells me that you didnt read this entire thread. Like at all.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm being dishonest? You're cherry-picking to try and get a speed upgrade.

No bro. You're disregarding instances in the media to focus only on the low ends, even ignoring context with it, if the first one is anything to go by. The second Pansage thing you linked proves nothing. Heck, the SolarBeam goes through the window without causing damage to it as light would do. Even if you want to argue that they're interacting with it, they have non physical interaction for a reason. Plasma, gas, and souls can be touched by these guys.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why does every Pokemon delve into "you're cherry picking", "you're dishonest", etc, etc, etc. Like seriously. I don't even care if Solarbeam gets accepted or not, but keep the accusations to a minimum. Pokemon threads have a bad rep as is.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

By using a moment where the move is purposely being used as lightly as possible? And legitimately arguing that its an actual inconsistency like the move is being used to its full capacity? Yes that is being dishonest.

Should we downgrade Naruto for using a rasenshuriken the size of his finger, which based off your argument, is inconsistent in comparison to a real one?

I provided another video to back up my claim. And it's funny you bring that jutsu in considering it's used as a summoning and we never see it used again.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Getting pretty aggressive there for no reason Kukui, take it down a notch. And yes I have read the thread, just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they haven't read the thread. It's a wiki standard that if light bends it isn't real light.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Listen, I'm trying not to resort to name calling, but when people make false accusations towards me, it puts a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I'm showing that Solar Beam is not a straight beam of light, and that it's inconsistently shown throughout the series.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I provided another video to back up my claim. And it's funny you bring that jutsu in considering it's used as a summoning and we never see it used again.

And that video, as Cal explained, didnt prove a thing.

And no, I brought that jutsu in to show how your argument is faulty and what better example than something you know well instead of just a random verse (and I dont mean any offense by this).

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'm showing that Solar Beam is not a straight beam of light, and that it's inconsistently shown throughout the series.

You mean in 2 instances. Where in one, Pansage is purposely doing that to hold back against Axew as much as possible. Stop acting like the user cannot control their moves to do things as such.

No one is throwing accusations at you but its very hard no to when your pulling in points that are again, absurd, without making this offensive.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Getting pretty aggressive there for no reason Kukui, take it down a notch. And yes I have read the thread, just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they haven't read the thread. It's a wiki standard that if light bends it isn't real light.

Im not getting aggressive, but I do get annoyed when people suddenly pop in and agree with points that have already been countered and debunked.

The only thing that stands is the bending standard, which im making a thread for to address why it needs to go. So if all checks out, this will be debunked as well.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

The video showed that the Solar Beam in that video is not a straight line and goes against the wiki rules for Light. And like I said above that Jutsu is meant as a summoning.

 

[AguilaR101]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_real_cal_howard/Solar_Beam_and_Pokemon_GO_(..yep)

This calc needs to be redone and evaluated at any rate since it's self-admiteddly lazily made and doesn't make evidently clear how much gyarados moved relative to the beam, a proper way to figure this out would be using

http://www.watchframebyframe.com/

Frame by frame viewer to verify it.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Here's another instance where solar Beam is deformed and not a straight line.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Here's another instance where solar Beam is deformed and not a straight line.

If you seriously going to argue the beam itself being "deformed" is what suddenly disqualifies it as opposed to the path its traveling (which is acting like light manipulation and even move manipulation is not a thing whatsoever), this is nothing but a reach.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I suppose you missed the Bleach thread where this was a reason Yhwach's Auswählen was not considered light.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I suppose you missed the Bleach thread where this was a reason Yhwach's Auswählen was not considered light.

I tend to stay away from most bleach threads these days because of how annoying they can get for any major character like Yhwach.

That said, if this was an actual reason to disqualify Auswahlen, then that also needs to be relooked over too.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

It wasn't the sole reason, but it was a reason.

 

[Amexim]

Imma be real.

This is dumb. I get having standards for light and lightning and stuff to scale verse's to properly, but this is splitting hairs. If you seriously want to go away from the move's description (as close to WoG and fact as you can get)— assume that they are transmuting sunlight into some other form of plasma energy and firing that new substance when you have NOTHING to go off of, in addition to what you do have being these hyped up WEAK inconsistencies like the "deformed blast" that DO NOT demonstrate that this substance ISN'T light and IS in fact a new substance in favor of a downgrade despite the numerous other examples, then we might as well torch the whole wiki. Not every character with universe busting or city busting strength destroys a city's worth of matter or even shakes a building when they swing their arm, and even though they demonstrate this power more than once AND their verse treats them like they are that powerful, the time Rocky got blasted through the chest by a bullet made of rubber despite tanking blasts that can nuke supercontinents DISPROVES everyone's superpower headcanon.

Ugh. Unless Solar Beam has statements that goes against the statement of it being light that is gathered and fired as light as well, and has statements saying "the light is transferred into energy" or something, on top of it regularly acting like light at times even in continuities that are SUPPLEMENTARY to the main stuff, using secondary materials to disprove stuff backed by primary materials isn't gonna fly.

But whatever.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Not every game describes it as absorbing sunlight. There are some that just say the Pokémon are absorbing energy.

 

[Amexim]

Most games do say it's light tho. So...