Requiem_Yoriichi
He/Him- 54
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- #41
Incredulity I don't know, but Appeal to Reality no; I have dismissed it.Pretty much
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Incredulity I don't know, but Appeal to Reality no; I have dismissed it.Pretty much
That's not how powers and abilities work? In fact it would rather carry the fact these characters have these abilities since abilities are mostly magical.At this point you should completely nuke literally like ANYTHING from Undertale and just replace it with just "Magic" at this point, which would be just ridiculous now.
Sans loses bone manipulation, as that's magic, Mettaton loses electricity manipulation, as that's magic, Woshua loses water manipulation, as that's magic, and so on.
Believe me, this is OLDI don't recall it being brought this often (mostly because UT wasn't MHS+ for a long time, then we got that downgrade Topaz did which was successful), so idk about it, really.
Jojo doesn't have a Discussion Rule towards the MFTL scaling (yet, at least), so I don't think we should rush it, but you do you.
You're not even being subtle about it, holy damn.That's not how powers and abilities work? In fact it would rather carry the fact these characters have these abilities since abilities are mostly magical.
What I only "nuked" is the lightning speed. The rest can stay, as my proposal shows.
I guess it's because we need instructions or standards, yes.I don't understand the point of this. Is this a complaint about this Wiki not being strict enough on stuff...?
We don't need standards, we can just use what the verse tells us.
My apologies, I had not understood the relation between the verses. Maybe I misformulated it so that's why you didn't understand, but it is rather an altitude issue than a "close to ground" issue. For example, montains: lightning-charged clouds can form close to them (aka close to the ground) because they have enough altitude.Nah nah nah you ain't just dodging these two only because "they're not UT", because here the thing is exactly the same: small clouds that appear close to the ground and that shoot lightning.
Plus I'm still using appeal to reality because you're using irl statistics on a retro game.
I mean the standards were ass back then so huh...Believe me, this is OLD
You still didn't explain why they fully function as actual clouds despite the low altitude.My apologies, I had not understood the relation between the verses. Maybe I misformulated it so that's why you didn't understand, but it is rather an altitude issue than a "close to ground" issue. For example, montains: lightning-charged clouds can form close to them (aka close to the ground) because they have enough altitude.
I mean, just saying you're not doing it doesn't mean that it's true . People denying that they're using a fallacy doesn't stop that from happening, even involuntarily.Fourth time I am telling you I dismissed the Appeal to Reality, but it seems you didn't read.
... So? That's not because the magical fire one manipulates isn't an exact replica of real fire that they don't have fire manipulation, for example.Nah man, you're going to go in account with these contradictions of yours. You're saying that the abilities aren't exact replicas of the real counterparts, so by your logic they wouldn't even qualify as these abilities as they're magic, hence they're not supposed to be comparable to the real thing.
You even said that a bark isn't even sound speed because it's magical in a prior comment, come on.
I don't know anything about the verses you gave me as examples so I don't even know about their altitude and stuff. Maybe I will check them if I get interested, but for now I have my eyes locked on Undertale, not Gravity Falls or Pizza Tower.You still didn't explain why they fully function as actual clouds despite the low altitude
I did not only do that, I also showed you the misconception you made regarding what Appeal to Reality was and refuted it.I mean, just saying you're not doing it doesn't mean that it's true . People denying that they're using a fallacy doesn't stop that from happening, even involuntarily.
Nah you're just being lazy, I've even posted the exact clips which are barely seconds long each, you're just avoiding anything that debunks your rebuttal.I don't know anything about the verses you gave me as examples so I don't even know about their altitude and stuff. Maybe I will check them if I get interested, but for now I have my eyes locked on Undertale, not Gravity Falls or Pizza
I don't mind a discussion rule but idk if this has gotten that far yet.
Believe me, this is OLD
Lightning Standards (2015). Almost the same as today. The topic of UT simply gets revisited throughout the years constantly.I mean the standards were ass back then so huh...
To show the age of these arguments.I mean you're going to use only threads from late 2010s as evidence for the topic being spammed and rejected ngl.
OK wow, I didn't expect that many threads. Yeah, I'm fine with a discussion thread then.
Is the draft ok?To show the age of these arguments.
I’m pretty sure Maverick Zero is not active since July
You should’ve also addressed the whole “they don’t behave as real lightning as it is small and cloud is small too” thingy I think.Snip
I’m pretty sure Maverick Zero is not active since July
Do we? I mean Mettaton's electricity doesn't behave like it either on screen. I'll think of a way to include it.You should’ve also addressed the whole “they don’t behave as real lightning as it is small and cloud is small too” thingy I think.
Yeah, that was one of the points in my CRT, that whole “monsters manipulate their magic and hence should be able to shape it in a more effective-combat way like shooting them in danmaku-style”.Do we? I mean Mettaton's electricity doesn't behave like it either on screen.
Something like “Do not attempt to downgrade it due to the attacks not behaving in movement the way they’re supposed to either, as monsters can manipulate their magic so…” and yada-yada-yada.I'll think of a way to include it.
Yeah, that was one of the points in my CRT, that whole “monsters manipulate their magic and hence should be able to shape it in a more effective-combat way like shooting them in danmaku-style”.
Something like “Do not attempt to downgrade it due to the attacks not behaving in movement the way they’re supposed to either, as monsters can manipulate their magic so…” and yada-yada-yada.
Tried this.
- Do not attempt to downgrade the characters' speeds from their Massively Hypersonic+ ratings based on the argument that Vulkin's lightning attacks aren't as fast as natural lightning due to them seemingly not behaving as such, and monsters' attacks being magic. Monsters in Undertale have showcased to control their magic in order to generate bullet patterns, other than magical attacks having showcased to be comparable to their real-life counterparts, examples being Toriel's fire behaving as such, Papyrus' bones being actual ones, or also Mettaton using electricity from his core thanks to him being a robot, with said electricity also behaving as the real one. Multiple discussions regarding this topic have been made to the point that they've become repetitive and tiresome.
This looks good to me, but better specify that they do not behave as such only in movement/shape, as the whole argument on our side is that they do behave as ones in other aspects.Tried this.
Isn't the "Monsters in Undertale have showcased to control their magic in order to generate bullet patterns, other than magical attacks having showcased to be comparable to their real-life counterparts" part enough? If not, how'd you edit it?This looks good to me, but better specify that they do not behave as such only in movement/shape, as the whole argument on our side is that they do behave as ones in other aspects.
No, this is fine (although maybe add some examples like Toriel shaping her fire to use them like fireballs), what I meant is that you should just add this (added part in bold):Isn't the "Monsters in Undertale have showcased to control their magic in order to generate bullet patterns, other than magical attacks having showcased to be comparable to their real-life counterparts" part enough? If not, how'd you edit it?
Because having “do not attempt to downgrade because they are not behaving as their irl counter-parts” and “they do behave as their irl counter-parts” at the same time looks bad, which is why I think we should specify that we are talking about movement and shape when talking about “not behaving as they should”. Small change but necessary imo.Do not attempt to downgrade the characters' speeds from their Massively Hypersonic+ ratings based on the argument that Vulkin's lightning attacks aren't as fast as actual lightning due to them seemingly not behaving as such in movement and shape, and monsters' attacks being magic. Monsters in Undertale have showcased to control their magic in order to generate bullet patterns, other than magical attacks having showcased to be comparable to their real-life counterparts, examples being Toriel's fire behaving as such, Papyrus' bones being actual ones, or also Mettaton using electricity from his core thanks to him being a robot, with said electricity also behaving as the real one. Multiple discussions regarding this topic have been made to the point that they've become repetitive and tiresome.
Ok, thanks. I fixed it.No, this is fine (although maybe add some examples like Toriel shaping her fire to use them like fireballs), what I meant is that you should just add this (added part in bold):
Because having “do not attempt to downgrade because they are not behaving as their irl counter-parts” and “they do behave as their irl counter-parts” at the same time looks bad, which is why I think we should specify that we are talking about movement and shape when talking about “not behaving as they should”. Small change but necessary imo.