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I see.
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Possible Pokemon Speed Downgrade.
- Thread starter Wrath_Of_Itachi
- Start date
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Thats exactly why the move would be light speed.Kepekley23 said:
You cannot cheery pick what the sunlight would be applied to in the move itself and I pointed this out further above in the thread.
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Honestly, I heavily dislike the rule that we can't say Light is light if it bends. It's the only power we assume can only be used as a beam rather than freely controlled like any other user of the power, which is all the more nonsensical considering that light can bend in real life in certain circumstances, despite the fact no one can manipulate light.
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This. "Light bending" easily sounds like the user is simply using light manipulation and like how I pointed out above, the user can also simply just be focusing the attack on a specific target, which would explain why the attack "bends".Yobo Blue said:
We really need to revise our light qualification standards in general to be blatant.
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This is pretty cut and dry.
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The standards do not mean "Light cannot be real light if it bends regardless of context" it simply means that in cases where we don't know if something is light or just an attack that resembles light, bending is an indication of the latter more than the former.
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"This calc assumes that doom desire is light speed, however, the move shows the beams bending. This should disqualify it from being accepted as light"
If light bending is just something that suggests it isn't real light without further context, then Doom Desire would probably be safe from being disqualified.
If light bending is just something that suggests it isn't real light without further context, then Doom Desire would probably be safe from being disqualified.
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> Thats exactly why the move would be light speed.
No, it's not. Unless you are legitimately trying to tell me that Solar Plants process and send electrical particles at lightspeed for the exact same reason.
Using real light as a power source is literally the weakest possible evidence for being lightspeed. The sunlight is converted into other types of energy upon being absorbed.
No, it's not. Unless you are legitimately trying to tell me that Solar Plants process and send electrical particles at lightspeed for the exact same reason.
Using real light as a power source is literally the weakest possible evidence for being lightspeed. The sunlight is converted into other types of energy upon being absorbed.
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Also our light standards should remain tight. I hope we are not trying to get to a point where "fires a beam of light" statements are accepted as actually sufficient to something as major as lightspeed.
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Pretty sure gathering sunlight for an actual beam attack is very different from just sending electrical particles into devices as an alternative power source.
Not to mention the attack being more than just a power source but literally being gathered light.
Not to mention the attack being more than just a power source but literally being gathered light.
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And this is irrelevant, as it isn't firing actual sunlight at the foes. It is being converted into actual attack energy, just like Solar Plants convert sunlight into usable electricity.GyroNutz said:
Only way it could be lightspeed is if it's actually shown to retain properties of real light, or, more directly, stated to be lightspeed.
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Directly redirecting sunlight in the form of an attack would've been different, I don't see why simply using sunlight to power up an attack would be
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Not in the slightest. But our standards do need to change if we're using ridiculous expectations like "it shouldnt bend" or "shouldnt cause explosions".Kepekley23 said:
It can stay tight, but it needs to be looser.
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And this is irrelevant, as it isn't firing actual sunlight at the foes. It is being converted into actual attack energy, just like Solar Plants convert sunlight into usable electricity.
And what exactly is "attack energy" to you Kep? Because it certainly isnt some different form of energy like electricity all of a sudden.
And what exactly is "attack energy" to you Kep? Because it certainly isnt some different form of energy like electricity all of a sudden.
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Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats's page regarding those standards are indeed strict, but I not sure where "bending" light is mentioned on the page that would disqualify the beam to being light speed or not. Will be neutral to this though.
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And this is irrelevant, as it isn't firing actual sunlight at the foes. It is being converted into actual attack energy, just like Solar Plants convert sunlight into usable electricity.
And what exactly is "attack energy" to you Kep? Because it certainly isnt some different form of energy like electricity all of a sudden.
A concentrated energy beam. Not sunlight.
And what exactly is "attack energy" to you Kep? Because it certainly isnt some different form of energy like electricity all of a sudden.
A concentrated energy beam. Not sunlight.
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And this is irrelevant, as it isn't firing actual sunlight at the foes. It is being converted into actual attack energy, just like Solar Plants convert sunlight into usable electricity.
And what exactly is "attack energy" to you Kep? Because it certainly isnt some different form of energy like electricity all of a sudden.
A concentrated energy beam. Not sunlight.
Concentrated beam =/= different type of energy from sunlight.
And what exactly is "attack energy" to you Kep? Because it certainly isnt some different form of energy like electricity all of a sudden.
A concentrated energy beam. Not sunlight.
Concentrated beam =/= different type of energy from sunlight.
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Which is normally true for light though. Anyway to quote a certain someone from Quora:
Yes, light can bend through diffraction and refraction. Diffraction is when light bends around a corner or a small opening and fills the larger space beyond it. Refraction is the bending of light when it transitions through different mediums, such as light seen in the air and entering into water.
(So-called "bent light")
Light travels at different speeds through different mediums, which causes refraction. When light passes from one medium to another, it slows down or speeds up. This causes the light to bend. Refraction is responsible for image formation in eyes and in cameras. Rainbows are also a result of refraction, where blue light is refracted more than red light.
Now, coming to Ayush Singh's point. Gravity does not directly bend light. Instead, high gravitational fields can cause bending in space-time, causing light to travel along the resulting distorted paths of space-time.
While photons do not have rest mass, they do have momentum, enabling their interaction with space-time. While gravity is a force in the Newtonian model, it is the result of the inherent warping of the shape of the universe by massive objects in general relativity. All paths of motion, including the motion of light, are warped by this warping of shape.
This light bending results in the gravitational lens effect, where the presence of matter between a light source and an observer leads to the bending of light toward the body as it travels to the observer. The more massive and dense the intervening matter, the more the space-time between source and observer is warped, and the more pronounced the gravitational lensing effect is.
Light bending can also indirectly result from relativistic orthogonal acceleration. For example, an observer holding a flashlight horizontally in an elevator moving upward at a tremendous acceleration would notice the beam deflecting downwards. This is because acceleration and gravity are equivalent in general relativity. This phenomenon is called principle equivalence and has been used on microelectrical mechanical systems on orbiting satellites.
Yes, light can bend through diffraction and refraction. Diffraction is when light bends around a corner or a small opening and fills the larger space beyond it. Refraction is the bending of light when it transitions through different mediums, such as light seen in the air and entering into water.
(So-called "bent light")
Light travels at different speeds through different mediums, which causes refraction. When light passes from one medium to another, it slows down or speeds up. This causes the light to bend. Refraction is responsible for image formation in eyes and in cameras. Rainbows are also a result of refraction, where blue light is refracted more than red light.
Now, coming to Ayush Singh's point. Gravity does not directly bend light. Instead, high gravitational fields can cause bending in space-time, causing light to travel along the resulting distorted paths of space-time.
While photons do not have rest mass, they do have momentum, enabling their interaction with space-time. While gravity is a force in the Newtonian model, it is the result of the inherent warping of the shape of the universe by massive objects in general relativity. All paths of motion, including the motion of light, are warped by this warping of shape.
This light bending results in the gravitational lens effect, where the presence of matter between a light source and an observer leads to the bending of light toward the body as it travels to the observer. The more massive and dense the intervening matter, the more the space-time between source and observer is warped, and the more pronounced the gravitational lensing effect is.
Light bending can also indirectly result from relativistic orthogonal acceleration. For example, an observer holding a flashlight horizontally in an elevator moving upward at a tremendous acceleration would notice the beam deflecting downwards. This is because acceleration and gravity are equivalent in general relativity. This phenomenon is called principle equivalence and has been used on microelectrical mechanical systems on orbiting satellites.
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@Yobo
Actually, it isn't. It is a legitimate part of our rules to deal with random "beam of light" statements.
Solar Beam has absolutely no context to grant it the speed of light that would make ignoring our regulations sensible. No actual statements from characters saying that it travels at the speed of light (and, by the way, Pokémon doesn't shy away from outright stating the speed of light down to the specific numbers, obvious outlier aside) or showings such as it reflecting upon touching mirrors.
Actually, it isn't. It is a legitimate part of our rules to deal with random "beam of light" statements.
Solar Beam has absolutely no context to grant it the speed of light that would make ignoring our regulations sensible. No actual statements from characters saying that it travels at the speed of light (and, by the way, Pokémon doesn't shy away from outright stating the speed of light down to the specific numbers, obvious outlier aside) or showings such as it reflecting upon touching mirrors.
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And this is irrelevant, as it isn't firing actual sunlight at the foes. It is being converted into actual attack energy, just like Solar Plants convert sunlight into usable electricity.
And what exactly is "attack energy" to you Kep? Because it certainly isnt some different form of energy like electricity all of a sudden.
A concentrated energy beam. Not sunlight.
Concentrated beam =/= different type of energy from sunlight.
And Solar Beam just so happens not to be sunlight either, so we're all good.
And what exactly is "attack energy" to you Kep? Because it certainly isnt some different form of energy like electricity all of a sudden.
A concentrated energy beam. Not sunlight.
Concentrated beam =/= different type of energy from sunlight.
And Solar Beam just so happens not to be sunlight either, so we're all good.
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>No actual statements from characters saying it travels at the speed of light
When the move literally gathers and uses light, why would statements be neccessary? Thats re-stating the obvious. Thats like saying fire attacks need to be stated to burn in order to be real fire attacks.
>And by the way, Pokemon doesnt shy away from outright stating the speed of light down to the specific numbers
Okay?
>Showings such as it reflecting upon touching mirrors
Actually, there is a showing where this happened.
When the move literally gathers and uses light, why would statements be neccessary? Thats re-stating the obvious. Thats like saying fire attacks need to be stated to burn in order to be real fire attacks.
>And by the way, Pokemon doesnt shy away from outright stating the speed of light down to the specific numbers
Okay?
>Showings such as it reflecting upon touching mirrors
Actually, there is a showing where this happened.
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Except the move gathering light proves/suggests it is sunlight. So we're not good here.
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I will to note though this does involve science since light itself has been studied by scientists and even students in the field of science. So scientific expertise will be involved in this case.
You kinda don't explain why it shouldn't be though. Anyway I am neutral to this just to clarify here.
You kinda don't explain why it shouldn't be though. Anyway I am neutral to this just to clarify here.
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> When the move literally gathers and uses light, why would statements be neccessary? Thats re-stating the obvious. Thats like saying fire attacks need to be stated to burn in order to be real fire attacks.
Solar Beam gathers light as a power-source, then blasts an energy beam from the collected energy. It doesn't blast the foe with literal sunlight. Once again, the exact same logic would have us believe electricity generated from Solar Panels is capable of achieving lightspeed, or that oxygen released by photosynthesis is lightspeed.
...And that's a massive false equivalence that I don't need to dwell into.
> Actually, there is a showing where this happened.
Scans?
Solar Beam gathers light as a power-source, then blasts an energy beam from the collected energy. It doesn't blast the foe with literal sunlight. Once again, the exact same logic would have us believe electricity generated from Solar Panels is capable of achieving lightspeed, or that oxygen released by photosynthesis is lightspeed.
...And that's a massive false equivalence that I don't need to dwell into.
> Actually, there is a showing where this happened.
Scans?
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Except the move gathering light proves/suggests it is sunlight. So we're not good here.
Yeah, I agree that photosynthesis and electricity are lightspeed too. Not.
Yeah, I agree that photosynthesis and electricity are lightspeed too. Not.
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>Solar Beam gathers light as a power-source, then blasts an energy beam from the collected energy. It doesn't blast the foe with literal sunlight. Once again, the exact same logic would have us believe electricity generated from Solar Panels is capable of achieving lightspeed, or that oxygen released by photosynthesis is lightspeed.
And like I pointd out before, gathering sunlight for an actual attack is something im pretty sure is vastly different than a solar panel converting sunlight into an energy specficially for electrical devices as electrical devices quite obviously cannot make use of pure literal sunlight.
Not to mention, your also assuming that the light gathered for solar beam is, for some reason, being converted into a different type of energy for the attack. Its your burden of proof to prove that the energy has changed, not just assume it is by using solar panels as an example or a made up concept like "attack energy".
>Scans
Gimme a sec.
And like I pointd out before, gathering sunlight for an actual attack is something im pretty sure is vastly different than a solar panel converting sunlight into an energy specficially for electrical devices as electrical devices quite obviously cannot make use of pure literal sunlight.
Not to mention, your also assuming that the light gathered for solar beam is, for some reason, being converted into a different type of energy for the attack. Its your burden of proof to prove that the energy has changed, not just assume it is by using solar panels as an example or a made up concept like "attack energy".
>Scans
Gimme a sec.
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I think the best analogy will be photosynthesis as flowers collect sunlight to get the energy needed to make sugar.
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> And like I pointd out before, gathering sunlight for an actual attack is something im pretty sure is vastly different than a solar panel converting sunlight into an energy specficially for electrical devices as electrical devices quite obviously cannot make use of pure literal sunlight.
No, it's not. Gathering sunlight and then converting it for a directed energy beam is absolutely no different in principle than the mechanical conversion into electricity, just in functionality.
> Not to mention, your also assuming that the light gathered for solar beam is, for some reason, being converted into a different type of energy for the attack. Its your burden of proof to prove that the energy has changed, not just assume it is by using solar panels as an example or a made up concept like "attack energy".
Okay.
Solar Beam;
1. Explodes upon contact
2. Can be sent into directed energy beams
3. Can turn into fireworks upon exploding
Real sunlight;
1. Doesn't explode upon contact
2. Can only cause harm by heating up the person's body
3. Is intangible
4. Mostly used in fiction by blinding the opponent with staggeringly bright light.
No, it's not. Gathering sunlight and then converting it for a directed energy beam is absolutely no different in principle than the mechanical conversion into electricity, just in functionality.
> Not to mention, your also assuming that the light gathered for solar beam is, for some reason, being converted into a different type of energy for the attack. Its your burden of proof to prove that the energy has changed, not just assume it is by using solar panels as an example or a made up concept like "attack energy".
Okay.
Solar Beam;
1. Explodes upon contact
2. Can be sent into directed energy beams
3. Can turn into fireworks upon exploding
Real sunlight;
1. Doesn't explode upon contact
2. Can only cause harm by heating up the person's body
3. Is intangible
4. Mostly used in fiction by blinding the opponent with staggeringly bright light.
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