Possible Alien X buff (Also an almost definite buff for 2-B things in the verse)

[LordGriffin1000]

Alternatively, though it's unrelated to this specific CRT, they could have their normal tier and then have "Insert tier with Existence Erasure"

They shouldn't, in my opinion.

Our Attack Potency section is referring to a characters "raw power" be it physically or from a special move that causes actual destruction or creation. Existence Erasure is hax and ignores conventional durability, it has no "power" behind it. Only thing it can be attributed to is "range". I 100% disagree with having a tier via Existence Erasure. You guys can ask other staff members if they agree and if enough do, I'm not going to argue but I'm not agreeing with giving a character a tier because of Existence Erasure.

Away, as for this specific revision. I'll wait for others to comment.

 

[The_Smashor]

They shouldn't, in my opinion.

Our Attack Potency section is referring to a characters "raw power" be it physically or from a special move that causes actual destruction or creation. Existence Erasure is hax and ignores conventional durability, it has no "power" behind it. Only thing it can be attributed to is "range". I 100% disagree with having a tier via Existence Erasure. You guys can ask other staff members if they agree and if enough do, I'm not going to argue but I'm not agreeing with giving a character a tier because of Existence Erasure.

Away, as for this specific revision. I'll wait for others to comment.

I mean, wouldn't it at least be in the same boat as environmental destruction?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Now that i think about it characters can get a tier if said hax can destroy something ,for example Yogiri Takatou is 10-A but 1-B via Instant Death so i don't see why shouldn't Alien x have a tier 2 rating via his EE

 

[StrymULTRA]

Existence Erasure in no way should scale to AP or even get a rating unless it was done a side effect of raw power. Any verse scale Existence Erasure to ap simply "because" shouldn't have a rating for it in my honest opinion.

I did say with context tho.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Now that i think about it characters can get a tier if said hax can destroy something ,for example Yogiri Takatou is 10-A but 1-B via Instant Death

That man is different, goes killing 1-B characters and his case is pretty simple, those characters who he kills usually say he is the end of existence

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Now that i think about it characters can get a tier if said hax can destroy something ,for example Yogiri Takatou is 10-A but 1-B via Instant Death

Not familiar with the verse so I can't say but if it can "destroy" something that's higher tier than yes. But we talking about Existence Erasure.

I did say with context tho.

I know, my comment was in the general sense. Not actually directed towards you.

 

[Antvasima]

@Firestorm808 @Zamasu_Chan

What do you think about this?

 

[StrymULTRA]

@Firestorm808 @Zamasu_Chan

What do you think about this?

Honestly this should be the last Ben 10 verse God tiers CRT, because, like the Bleach ones, this kind of discussions keep to happen since 2019, and if we don't do something many other circular CRTs will keep coming with no end. I'm talking about CRTs such as:

1. This (the most important one among these)
2. This
3. This
4. This
5. This
6. And this (the 3-A downgrade)

There are obviously more, but this should make y'all understand that the arguments are basically the same for both upgrade and downgrade. My proposal is to make this CRT the last one about Ben 10 verse cosmology and how the God tiers scale to it, then make a discussion rule to prevent other CRTs which don't bring anything new/relevant to the table from coming.

What do you think of this idea?

 

[Antvasima]

I personally do not mind a discussion rule at this point.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@Firestorm808 @Zamasu_Chan

What do you think about this?

I’ll talk about that later.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[neptune311]

The key word here is "Possible", by the way. And spoilers, it would mean X shares a tier with he who shall not be named. Thanks, I hate it already.

Given how much this character has been analyzed, I don't think I'm actually adding anything new to the discussion, but in the event I was I'd like to share this.

Basically, this little tidbit on Alien X's profile intrigued me:

Unfortunately, this wasn't cited, so if someone could share this that'd be great. This was stated by Servantis, who should be knowledgeable enough on the subject given his immense intelligence. Of course, on it's own it dosn't give Alien X anything since there's no timeframe given.

And then we have this on the Chronosapien time bomb's profile:



Now, the timelines are stated to branch off "Ad Infinitum". By dictionary definition, Ad Infinitum is "without end or limit". This means that the Ben 10 multiverse would have infinite universes, not the countless we currently give it.

This would buff, just to my knowledge, Professor Paradox, Vilgax, and of course the Chronosapien Time Bomb itself.

And then we come to a little quirk with our tiering system: Even if no timeframe is given, to destroy an infinite multiverse at all is a 2-A feat.

That's right. 2-A Alien X.

Hal still speedblitzes though.

kind of agreeing atm, even if this goes nowhere. I support the hax change specifically.

 

[Rez]

Their is also this quote from Maltruant

 

[StrymULTRA]

Isn't there a statement in a Ben 10 x Generator Rex crossover about infinite universes? And is it canon?

 

[Rez]

Isn't there a statement in a Ben 10 x Generator Rex crossover about infinite universes? And is it canon?

For generator Rex yes for ben 10 it's never mentioned so don't know

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the staff conclusions here so far?

 

[Eficiente]

This is too deconcentrated. I made this into a staff thread and non-staff talked anyway. There are 2 very, very underwhelming things claimed that would have been instantly been dealt on a more organized wiki by other staff, instead I see LordGriffin participating while not having paid much attention.

What I am expected to do here, Ant? Do I need to embark in endless discussions with all this users about how "everything" doesn't mean the multiverse unless proven and how "the infinite time stream" just refers to the time stream of 1 timeline being infinite as it is? Because I see as far more appropriate to reinforce my decision to not allow non-staff to comment here and wait for more staff to come in, but you tell me if I'm being too strict or something.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

speaking of that, this is probably a good (or the worst) time to ask
what exactly are the rules on normal people being in staff threads?

 

[Eficiente]

It's against the rules, as the rules say, it may be normalized to ignore that but that doesn't mean it's the equivalent to jaywalking. If it was more respected this thread would have been over pretty quickly and I wouldn't need to be writing this and the last comment, which probably has to account for something.

Needless to say non-staff can be allowed to comment, as it's often done and as I did for the guy who came up with "everything"'s definition of by the Oxford Dictionary to give him the benefit of a discussion, even tho I don't find what he brings sensical at all. It just seems like the best way to act to me, or it would have been if respected.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

This is too deconcentrated. I made this into a staff thread and non-staff talked anyway. There are 2 very, very underwhelming things claimed that would have been instantly been dealt on a more organized wiki by other staff, instead I see LordGriffin participating while not having paid much attention.

I'm busy with real life work for the past few weeks and only have little time to contribute at this time. I already responded towards those trying to give EE a tier for Alien X (which I disagreed with). I already know about the whole 2-A upgrade attempt and that we didn't accept it do to "Ad Infinitum" not being enough. I'm not an expert on Ben 10 so there isn't much else I can say other than me disagreeing with the OP for reasons stated on previous threads regarding this same subject since nothing new has been brought up to my knowledge, so sorry if I'm not on point and paid enough attention to everthing.

 

[Eficiente]

Understandable, I had to mention you to describe what happened here.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that we could write "STAFF ONLY" in the first post of this thread and delete further derailing regular member comments from this thread if it is necessary to get this properly concluded.

 

[Bobsican]

Ironically, bump.

 

[Antvasima]

@Liger686 @Firestorm808 @Newendigo @Eficiente @VersusJunkie54 @EmperorRorepme @KingEzran @AKM sama @Greenshifter @DemonicDude

What do you think that we should do here?

 

[Firestorm808]

I'll need time to familiarize myself with what's been said before I can give my opinion.

 

[KingEzran]

@Liger686 @Firestorm808 @Newendigo @Eficiente @VersusJunkie54 @EmperorRorepme @KingEzran @AKM sama @Greenshifter @DemonicDude

What do you think that we should do here?

I don't really think that these should be added. Evidence has already been presented to keep this from being 2-A on multiple occasions in this thread alone.

On a side-note, I don't know how I feel about Existence Erasure being on his page at all. In terms of existence erasure, it didn't directly say he would wipe it from existence. For example, if Goku from Dragon Ball shot a ki blast, it could easily wipe out a city block, and if someone were to say that in-verse, we wouldn't put existence erasure on his page. Although, not enough detail is really given to say otherwise either, but that's another thread. I just figured I'd leave it anyways.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Eficiente]

I'll need time to familiarize myself with what's been said before I can give my opinion.

Characters says that Alien X is able to "wish everything out of existance". People claim that everythng refers to the multverse and that wish out of exstance means EE.

I'm sorry if it offends others that feel me being condescending but I find incredibly, absurdly obvious that you cannot use the word "everything" to refer to the highest take possible, that requires evidence to back it up, lesser takes like everything being the universe, the world, or something vague in between are more likely.

I'll also point out something unprofessional that's to be fixed, you cannot word "Can wipe out all known timelines in the multiverse" in a profile w/o evidence when that's a conclusion from other words said, you need to be honest and quote things as they were, then may audiences conclude the same you did or not, and if they don't that's something you need to live with.

On something less objective, but still notable, everything being out of existance can potentially mean as in transported into another dimension, especially given the place where this is said.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm sorry if it offends others that feel me being condescending but I find incredibly, absurdly obvious that you cannot use the word "everything" to refer to the highest take possible, that requires evidence to back it up, lesser takes like everything being the universe, the world, or something vague in between are more likely.

In the original upgrade thread we already proved that Servantis knows about the multiverse, heck he's stating this while not inside the universe. So yes everything meaning everything he knows about which is the multiverse seems pretty straightforward.

On something less objective, but still notable, everything being out of existance can potentially mean as in transported into another dimension, especially given the place where this is said.

Servantis was talking about Ben being a threat in a destructive context, hence why he brought up To'kustars like Way Big which are known for their destructive capabilities. Meanwhile transporting things to a different dimension wouldn't really change much, people have the tech to just get back to their home universe.

 

[Eficiente]

Knowing about a wider range existing doesn't mean using a vague word has to target all wider range known, by that logic all humans who know the word universe aim their use of the word everything at it in case of unclarity. There is literally not logic to what you say, you claim that "knows about the multiverse" should get followed by "everything means everything he knows about which is the multiverse" here, but you already take in for no reason that "everything" means "everything he knows about", it literally doesn't matter what he knows about, only what's the target, what he knows about is no proof of it, most people using vague word like that can technically refer to the universe/the planet/everyone on the planet/etc. in conversations with those being things they know about, but it doesn't matter what they know about, only what's proven that they refer to.

You have no reason to objectively believe it's destructive in that way, to transport everything away is chaotic and a showcase of power, both lines he could have followed in context. Just because he talked about about a destructive way to use his aliens that doesn't means he's taking solely about literal destruction in what he's saying.

 

[The_Smashor]

It's worth noting that the 2-A stuff was just throwing stuff at the wall and pointing out something I was wondering if it had been noted before. I had very little faith it would be passed.

 

[Eficiente]

Well, even when one believes something to be correct after evaluating it properly, they can still be wrong, and biases are to be "trained" to be removed with what we do, which anyone can fail at even if they do so (as pretentious as it sounds, it's true), so please don't make a thread like that again, it normalizes it and who-knows-how-many users bought into it. You could ask someone on private though.

I'll close this thread.

 

[Firestorm808]

Late to the thread, but from what I've read, it would be best if the justification was more concrete to avoid future conflicts.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Eficiente and Firestorm808.