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Alien X Downgrade Rebuttal (Updating Alien X to 2B or 2A again)

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ShinyFire

ShinyFire

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There was a thread where https://vsbattles.com/members/zamasu_chan.4249/
Stated that Alien X should be downgraded to 2C because Atomic X scales up to him which is incorrect.
The OG series not only debunks this statement but one of the writers answers a question that specifically asks this and they confirm that Atomic X is not as powerful because he is a fusion. Also Alien X cut through a 5D barrier made by the Contumelia in Omniverse.

Ben 10 Writer confirming Atomic X is weaker than Alien X




Alien X cutting through a 5D barrier with a fraction of his power.




I might be wrong about some things regarding scaling since I am new to this so bear with me.

Also Prof Paradox spoke of celestialspiens being the most powerful being which obviously puts him above the Chrono Navigator. I do not think it makes sense for the CN to be 2B while Alien X is 2C, that would imply Paradox is more powerful than a celestialsapien.

Also, Clockwork, an Alien far weaker than Alien X was able to suck in a multiversal blast made by a chronosapien time bomb which is recorded at 2B on vs wiki.
 
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ShinyFire said:
. Also Alien X cut through a 5D barrier made by the Contumelia in Omniverse.
Click to expand...
U need to send scans and prove the reason that these 5D barriers are indeed enough to reach an new tier
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
There was a thread where https://vsbattles.com/members/zamasu_chan.4249/
Stated that Alien X should be downgraded to 2C because Atomic X scales up to him which is incorrect.
The OG series not only debunks this statement but one of the writers answers a question that specifically asks this and they confirm that Atomic X is not as powerful because he is a fusion
Click to expand...
I mean yea it isn't correct, I'm pretty sure everyone agreed in the thread, it was for other reasons Alien X got downgraded within the thread such as "Greatest Power" only refering to his ability to reality warp and The Chrono Navigator having environmental destruction and was an overtime feat.
Also Alien X cut through a 5D barrier made by the Contumelia in Omniverse.
Click to expand...
Yea he did do that, however the issue is that it's hard to prove higher dimensions within Ben 10 are enough to upgrade it to x tier. So if you can prove 5D in Ben 10 means beyond infinitely more powerful than that of 4D then go right ahead. Here you can find some more info https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System_FAQ
 
Don't worry ShinyFire is very confident guy I'm sure he has read all Alien X downgrade threads before making this one so it doesn't waste everyone's time, I have trust in him, He absolutely has scans for the barriers being 5D+ as well as Alien X being 2-A which will be implemented after this thread since he will give us all the evidences for it.
 
Bernkastelll said:
U need to send scans and prove the reason that these 5D barriers are indeed enough to reach an new tier
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
I mean, I can send you the scans. Here is where The Contumelia who are 5D beings talking about the barrier (They say it's extra dimensional and impossible to break) and here is Alien X with just a fraction of his dna breaking it.
 
DemonicDude said:
Don't worry ShinyFire is very confident guy I'm sure he has read all Alien X downgrade threads before making this one so it doesn't waste everyone's time, I have trust in him, He absolutely has scans for the barriers being 5D+ as well as Alien X being 2-A which will be implemented after this thread since he will give us all the evidences for it.
Click to expand...
I want to send scans and proof of everything I said. I'm a new user and I'm still figuring this website out so I don't know how yet. Gimme a moment
 
ShinyFire said:
There was a thread where https://vsbattles.com/members/zamasu_chan.4249/
Stated that Alien X should be downgraded to 2C because Atomic X scales up to him which is incorrect.
The OG series not only debunks this statement but one of the writers answers a question that specifically asks this and they confirm that Atomic X is not as powerful because he is a fusion. Also Alien X cut through a 5D barrier made by the Contumelia in Omniverse.
Click to expand...

ShinyFire said:
P.S
I just made this account for the purpose of this particular argument and I don't know how to embed media.
Click to expand...

Bernkastelll said:
U need to send scans and prove the reason that these 5D barriers are indeed enough to reach an new tier
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Shouldn't having a dimensional feat give you a new tier though since being a D above a being is a large difference?
 
ShinyFire said:
Shouldn't having a dimensional feat give you a new tier though since being a D above a being is a large difference?
Click to expand...
Yes but the wiki doesn't accept that it being a higher dimensions alone makes it stronger, you would need proof for it on Vs Battles Wiki. (Which is something I personally don't fully agree with but it is what it is and it's their wiki after all)
 
Midtop said:
I mean, I can send you the scans. Here is where The Contumelia who are 5D beings talking about the barrier (They say it's extra dimensional and impossible to break) and here is Alien X with just a fraction of his dna breaking it.
Click to expand...
The barrier only shield them from the big bang, So that's why shield is rated as Low 2-C just because you destroy a 5-D construct with a fraction of your power doesn't you are a Tier 2-B character the said 5-D shield must be infinitely superior than the lower ones or at very least infinitely larger than the lower dimensions to be taken into consideration. In Ben 10 franchise is no proof that the 5D wall are superior to 4D walls.
 
DemonicDude said:
The barrier only shield them from the big bang, So that's why shield is rated as Low 2-C just because you destroy a 5-D construct with a fraction of your power doesn't mean you're all of the sudden Tier 2-B character the said 5-D shield must be infinitely superior than the lower ones or at very least infinitely larger than the lower dimensions to be taken into consideration. In Ben 10 franchise is no proof that the 5D wall are superior to 4D walls.
Click to expand...
Why are you telling me this? All I did was send the scans the guy who made this thread didn't send to the guy who wanted the scans. To be honest when did I say anything about the 5D walls being infinitely superior to the 4D wallks? :/
 
It's just my takes on the scans themselves that you post above. Contumelia aren't the only ones who are extra-dimensional Dagon is as well and he is only High 5-A which means "Extra-dimensional" word itself means to exist outside of the universe and doesn't warrent higher dimensions. I'm just giving my thoughts on the actual scans posted above.
 
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Thelastmlg said:
For the 5D thing, we stopped using direct dimensional tiering like a year ago, now you need proof that the higher dimensional is infinitely superior to the lower ones to give tier 1, so If the only feat is shielding against the big bang, it is low 2-C.
Click to expand...
Btw, why is that? Can you show me the thread?
 
DemonicDude said:
The barrier only shield them from the big bang, So that's why shield is rated as Low 2-C just because you destroy a 5-D construct with a fraction of your power doesn't you are a Tier 2-B character the said 5-D shield must be infinitely superior than the lower ones or at very least infinitely larger than the lower dimensions to be taken into consideration. In Ben 10 franchise is no proof that the 5D wall are superior to 4D walls.
Click to expand...
I see, makes sense but in terms of Ds I thought a D above is already a scale above since a 2D being against a 3D being would be like a character on paper fighting you.
Midtop said:
I mean yea it isn't correct, I'm pretty sure everyone agreed in the thread, it was for other reasons Alien X got downgraded within the thread such as "Greatest Power" only refering to his ability to reality warp and The Chrono Navigator having environmental destruction and was an overtime feat.

Yea he did do that, however the issue is that it's hard to prove higher dimensions within Ben 10 are enough to upgrade it to x tier. So if you can prove 5D in Ben 10 means beyond infinitely more powerful than that of 4D then go right ahead. Here you can find some more info https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System_FAQ
Click to expand...
makes sense but I thought being a D above something meant being superior for example, a character on a sheet of paper can't do anything to you but you can tear it up, something like that?
 
Thelastmlg said:
For the 5D thing, we stopped using direct dimensional tiering like a year ago, now you need proof that the higher dimensional is infinitely superior to the lower ones to give tier 1, so If the only feat is shielding against the big bang, it is low 2-C.
Click to expand...
Why? May I please see the thread that decided, I seem to be very behind, what have I gotten myself into lol.
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
If this is rejected there should probably be a note on AX's page to not try and upgrade him to 2-B+
Click to expand...
For the wrong reasons that is, not to mention that… what OP is saying ik the beginning is accepted… Atomic-X doesn’t scale to Alien X. The rest is just a repeat of why he was initially upgraded + 5D stuff which has indeed been brought up a lot. The thread’s just pointless. So at best I can agree to “don’t attempt to upgrade Alien X to Low 1-C for the Contumelia barrier without proving the barrier to have actual Low 1-C durability”.

Heck without looking at the other replies, can you tell me why Alien X isn’t 2-B?
 
Greenshifter said:
For the wrong reasons that is, not to mention that… what OP is saying ik the beginning is accepted… Atomic-X doesn’t scale to Alien X. The rest is just a repeat of why he was initially upgraded + 5D stuff which has indeed been brought up a lot. The thread’s just pointless. So at best I can agree to “don’t attempt to upgrade Alien X to Low 1-C for the Contumelia barrier without proving the barrier to have actual Low 1-C durability”.
Click to expand...
that's fine too i guess
Greenshifter said:
Heck without looking at the other replies, can you tell me why Alien X isn’t 2-B?
Click to expand...
Buddy i don't have a dog in this fight, this is just the bajillionth thread i've seen on it, i do not care what his tier is beyond that.
 
Guys, the whole infinite superiority thing is on the tiering system and FAQ pages about it, just check them, they make it clear you need to view lower dimensions as something insignificant such as dreams, fiction, and sometimes flat or at least have statements that would imply a infinite difference, and this was done on more than one thread a year ago AFAIK
 
ZephyrosOmega said:
Buddy i don't have a dog in this fight, this is just the bajillionth thread i've seen on it, i do not care what his tier is beyond that.
Click to expand...
It’s only the second one post the downgrade iirc. I asked that question because usually when people go “this has been brought up a million times” they know why things are the way they currently are. I don’t get that impression with Alien X.
 
c347bf372bc42f9aac679ec140b713c0.jpg



Disagree already
 
Greenshifter said:
For the wrong reasons that is, not to mention that… what OP is saying ik the beginning is accepted… Atomic-X doesn’t scale to Alien X. The rest is just a repeat of why he was initially upgraded + 5D stuff which has indeed been brought up a lot. The thread’s just pointless. So at best I can agree to “don’t attempt to upgrade Alien X to Low 1-C for the Contumelia barrier without proving the barrier to have actual Low 1-C durability”.

Heck without looking at the other replies, can you tell me why Alien X isn’t 2-B?
Click to expand...
I don't want Alien X to be 1C...I'm saying he should be 2B or 2A
 
I did prove it. Re-read my first passage again. I was editing it and adding stuff as I learnt how to better use the website.
 

Are higher-dimensional beings infinitely stronger than lower-dimensional equivalents?​

Unintuitive as that may be: Not necessarily, as a number of characteristics through which we quantify the strength or power of a character can remain unchanged when transitioning between higher and lower dimensions. For example: Mass is a quantity that is detached from the dimension of the object which it is inherent to, and unlike volume is not divided in units corresponding to each particular dimension (1-volume [length], 2-volume [area], 3-volume, 4-volume...). It is singular in nature and its units equally apply to all dimensions; whether it is distributed over an area or a volume only tells us about the span of space in which it is spread, not about the quantity itself.

As a consequence of that, much of the calculation methods which are used to measure strength apply equally to both higher and lower dimensions, as they do not care about the extra variables and often work with a single one of them. Examples of this are kinetic energy (Ek=0.5*M*V^2), force (F=M*A), work (W=F*d), and etc.

An intuitive example of that is found in the general definition of Work as defined in physics: In essence, as work itself denotes the energy applied to an object as it is displaced along a given path, the basic formula for calculating it only takes into account a single variable, and the path itself is treated as an one-dimensional object, regardless of the dimension of the space in which the action itself takes place.

Hence, a higher-dimensional entity can be both stronger or weaker than a lower-dimensional one, and thus, they are usually quantified based on their own feats, instead of dimensionality alone. If a character is merely stated to be higher-dimensional and simultaneously has no other feats to derive anything noteworthy from, then they are put at Unknown, and the same applies to lower dimensions as well.

Do note, however, that them not qualifying for Tier 2 and above doesn't mean they are "fake" higher-dimensional beings or anything of the sort. It is simply that being higher-dimensional does not inherently mean they have infinite power in the first place, as explained above.

This is from the FAQ. Make of that as you will.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Wall
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, I'm pretty sure that's referring to dimensional tiering and the fact that not all higher dimensionals get tier 2 or 1, on tiering page and even there they mention that tier 1 and stuff needs a infinite difference.

Basically they are saying that not all higher dimensions have to be infinitely superior and thus qualify for tier 1, because you know, the difference between tier 3 and 2, and tier 2 and 1 is infinite and stuff.
 
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