Pain's Super Shinra Tensei Discussion

[ShrekAlmighty]

Tsunade is the only person that i can say for certain should scale, as:

Tsunade is the only person that took the hit of full power ST without Katsuyus protection and survived.

Her small Katsuyus were able to protect a lot of people from getting killed(example Sakura) as such her Katsuyus were able to tank the ST(Or they have some sick Regenerationn abilities considering the ST would obliterate others with ease but this is an assumption that we cannot make as its baseless).

Now coming back to the previous point. Katsuyu was stated to be able to use her power only in accordance to Tsunades power as such saying that Tsunade is >= small Katsuyus is logical.

 

[BlackeJan]

Well we can say we don't know since Naruto wasn't there when that happened but it's a Mastered SM so I feel that Naruto should PARTYLY scale (he beat Pain by himself)

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Not really.

SM Naruto lost to Pain and he wasnt hit by any of his major attacks (ST,CT) as such i belive he shouldnt scale.

 

[Kepekley23]

Katsuyu is a glass cannon, though. The whole point is that's she's unkillable because she can abuse her split.

Plus, it'd scale to Manda since he constricted her, which'd then scale to Gamabunta, which messes up the scaling.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Yes that is true, Manda would scale aswell.

 

[Kepekley23]

That'd end up scaling to Jiraiya and Gamabunta, which would screw up the scaling because Itachi's Susano'o would also become 6-C, which scales to Sasuke, which scales to Kabuto and so on.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Why would Gamabunta being comparable to ST make Itachis susanoo 6-C?

And why would Jiraiya scale?

 

[Kepekley23]

Jiraiya's Gamayu Endan can harm Manda.

Also, since Katsuyu wouldn't be able to tank the Shinra Tensei, this whole scaling chain is hardly a thing to begin with

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Is Tsunade scales, then by default jiraiya and orochi would scale for being stronger than her.

 

[AstralKing7]

i believe Manda is weaker than Orochimaru's White Dragon Snake which Itachi one shotted

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

About Glass cannon, yes its true that she can split and thats her main survivability option but what would spliting do against the ST. Sure u can argue that Katsuyu would survive it cause of it but then everyone that Katsuyu was protecting would be dead.

As such we either assume that Katsuyu tanked it or we have to assume some magical healing boost from Katsuyu.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Is Tsunade scales, then by default jiraiya and orochi would scale for being stronger than her.

Tsunade is the strongest of the 3 sannin in Ap

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Gamayu endan is a technique where he uses it together with Gamabunta as such it shouldnt scale to Jiraiya

 

[AstralKing7]

how is Tsunade the strongest of the 3 sannin tho?? I actually wanna know that

 

[Kepekley23]

Actually, the Gamayu Endan is just Jiraiya's flames vaporizing a large amount of oil thrown by Gamabunta. Bunta himself doesn't help out with the energy yield.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Give me a fire lighter or a match if i throw the match in a gas canister do i scale to the explosion made?

I would say no.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Instead of strongest i should have used the word superior.

 

[BlackeJan]

Not really.

SM Naruto lost to Pain and he wasnt hit by any of his major attacks (ST,CT) as such i belive he shouldnt scale.

Well yeah true but SM Naruto was kicking his ass and have Pain be on his toes. Everyone knew that in order for Pain to be defeated it would have to be Naruto

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

@Astral

One shot Jiraiya and 2 shot Oro.

Stated by Oro that a single punch could lead to a death.

Stated and Implied to be by far the strongest out of all the Sannin.

 

[AstralKing7]

when has is she one shotted SM Jiraiya tho and wasnt that Oro who had his arms taking???

 

[Kepekley23]

@Shrek

Oro ca take one of Tsunade's punches, therefore both Jiraiya and him scale due to their jutsus being able to harm each other

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

@Blacke

Everyone belived in Naruto true.

He demolished all the paths besides Deva path after which when Deva could use ST again he beat Naruto.

Even then only Pains super ST is 6-C Pain is physically 7-B

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

@Kep

Oro took 1 punch and got oneshot by the other one, both times when Tsunade was weakened as such we cant scale them to her.

@Astral

His arms were taken but thats about it, Tsunade was also weakened at that point.

She one shot base Jiraiya

 

[Kepekley23]

Taking one hit is already enough for him to scale somewhat to it.

The whole reason behind Tsunade scaling is iffy. Katsuyu splitting into one thousand to save the villagers when she would've been torn apart had she been on the blast's range isn't a feat.

That, and the blast isn't as strong several kilometers away as it is in the epicenter.

 

[AstralKing7]

Base Jiraiya <<<SM Jiraiya.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

No its not, even then Tsunade was weakened and if we decided to scale like that then Kabuto would be 7-B aswell

I dont remember scaling ever working like this, and it assumes the ST to be an explosion which it isnt.

Why would that be so? its not an explosion and even then someone had to be staying in the middle of Konoha making that person take the full force of ST.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Byakugo Tsunade > Madaras complete Susanoo

Unless u want to Imply SM Jiraiya > Madaras complete Susanoo it makes Tsunade >>> Jiraiya

 

[Kepekley23]

Byakugo Tsunade is maybe 6-C

Base Tsunade is definitely not

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

What about tsunade claiming she is 100x stronger? What would that put her at?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Tsunade being 6-C wouldnt create any inconsistencies and is backed up by feats

 

[AstralKing7]

Byakugo seal is the only one who should scale

 

[Golden_Void]

Shouldn't scale to anybody besides other rinnegan users.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

It shouldnt scale to other rinnegan users as they havent shown the ability to use super ST

 

[AstralKing7]

KCM Naruto and Obito scale to this.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

KCM Naruto and Obito scale to this.

Why tho?

 

[Kepekley23]

> Tsunade being 6-C wouldnt create any inconsistencies and is backed up by feats

Tsunade's only advantage over the other Sannin is her physical strength. Jutsu-wise, she is bested in every way.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Yes.

I agree that Tsunade is physically far above other 2 sannin but in jutsu variety she is indeed bested.

 

[AstralKing7]

Kep said they should scale and KCM Naruto >> SM Naruto<6 tails Naruto

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

I dont see how Kep or anyone saying that them scaling should make them scale to Pains ST.

KCM Naruto >>6Tail>SM yep you are correct but what does that have to do with any of this.

 

[Golden_Void]

It shouldnt scale to other rinnegan users as they havent shown the ability to use super ST

"Super" Shinra Tensei is literally just putting more chakra into a normal one. That's like saying Jiraya can't make an ultra big rasengan because only Naruto showed that ability.