A Review of the speed of Naruto (Verse)

[Ghostimuscrime]

Didn't MinatoSparkle point out that some people would be affected such at the 4th Raikage?

Not Base Ay, his base is rated currently at mhs+ and v1 and higher is subrel
the subrel would become ftl

Pretty sure we don't accept that for Sasuke's profile currently.

so what?
its crt not having been made yet does not take away from it's applicability in debates what?

 

[Samlex1234]

Didn't MinatoSparkle point out that some people would be affected such at the 4th Raikage?

why will Raikage be affected if his base could easily tank the effects??

 

[Damage3245]

so what?
its crt not having been made yet does not take away from it's applicability in debates what?

Well, I'm not going to divert the thread into a discussion about Part 1 Sasuke having speed of light reactions, sorry.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Well, I'm not going to divert the thread into a discussion about Part 1 Sasuke having speed of light reactions, sorry.

excuse me? this is relevant for establishing consistency, YOU CLAIMED it's an outlier
this is refutation for YOUR argument you cannot dismiss it because you dont like it



and no one said light speed reactions, sasuke gets ftl perception speed, that's my claim kindly do not strawman me

 

[Damage3245]

excuse me? this is relevant for establishing consistency, YOU CLAIMED it's an outlier
this is refutation for YOUR argument you cannot dismiss it because you dont like it

and no one said light speed reactions, sasuke gets ftl perception speed, that's my claim kindly do not strawman me

No intention of strawmanning you; I just misunderstood your claim.

And your refutation lacks any scans or sources for your argument.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Not Base Ay, his base is rated currently at mhs+ and v1 and higher is subrel
the subrel would become ftl

Damage's point was (I think) that Mabui wasn't sure Ay could survive despite knowing of his LCM

 

[Samlex1234]

Also thats ignoring the obvious logistics of the ability name being a direct reference to its speed, which is strange if the ability's function relies on a temporary amp that mifune would only gain 70 years into his life with no foreknowledge.

You’re misunderstanding my point. I never claimed that Base Mifune cannot use Issen. What I’m saying is that there are levels to its performance (Speed and Ap). Normal samurai are not on Kage-level, whereas Base Mifune is at least at that level. Therefore, even if a normal samurai were to execute Issen at their maximum capability, it would not match the speed or attack potency of Base Mifune performing Issen at his maximum output.

To clarify: Amped Mifune’s Issen > Base Mifune’s Issen > Normal Samurai’s Issen. This is the distinction I’m making.

 

[Testarossa002]

Yes. I think it's a significantly large jump; Killer B in his Biju mode was only reaching Sub-Relativistic before this new scaling. The next highest calc from comparable characters is the current Mach 7981 Kakashi calc, which is multiplied by 5 for some characters through Might Guy's Eight Gates scaling.

I won’t bring up the fact that the jump from Chunin to Jonin tiers—from Mach 58 to Mach 7891—is over 130 times, or that the gap between Kakashi’s calculation and the next best rating ranges from 200 to 1000 times, compared to the 100-times gap between Kakashi’s calculation and Sol, as I’m fairly certain you disagree with all of these.
Instead, I'm going to point out this

If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point.

Biju Mode Bee had a grand total of one feat (against Suigetsu). He barely has feats that can be used to judge his power for us to make the outlier argument.

Yes. This is an exceptional incident; Killer B's Biju Bombs are never depicted this fast in any other scenes.

Same as 1

If the character has very few feats, we can also likely skip this point.

Bee's Bomb barely has its own feat. In fact, one of such few feats was him firing bombs in tandem with Kurama/KCM 2. Kurama who blitzed an even stronger Kakashi compared to the one with the FD feat

Yes. There is no explanation or justification so far as I'm aware for why Killer B's Biju Bombs would be this fast.

Uh

But if it can be explained by means of some power-up, vulnerability, or limiter, it is likely not.

Biju Mode is a power-up

Yes. As explained by the above points, virtually nobody else possesses feats or statements on this level that are currently accepted. In fact characters don't properly exhibit FTL combat speed until Six Paths Sage Naruto who is just a bit above baseline FTL.

Haku is LS and is accepted. Before you say anything, see

such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier

It doesn't say anything about the characters needing to scale to other characters. Just that they should possess feats/statements of similar magnitude to the hypothetical outlier

Yes. As shown by the section on the Ten-Tails Biju Bomb up above, I believe that the scaling implications from accepting Killer B's Biju Bombs to be this fast would break the narrative of the work.

Characters talking in the timeframe of an attack has 0 effects on the narrative of the work. I also pointed out this:

Also, there were 13 text boxes between when Mabui launched her jutsu to when Ay/Tsunade arrived at the battlefield
As opposed to the 16+ between Juubi's attack and the destruction of alliance HQ
Mind you, the latter covered a much longer distance
The point here is to show how authors don't really factor in talking/thinking in relation to speed

 

[Godernet]

Haku is not the argument for refuting his arguments brother.

It's probably one of the worse avenues the verse has for LS scaling

The statement is that it is possible for Haku to move between Mirrors at LS not that he always is moving between mirrors at that speed.

And there's no way to prove Haku was using top speeds when Sasuke reacted to him, in fact the added context that Haku never wanted to hurt Naruto and Sasuke suggests otherwise.

We also know that a serious Haku can blitz Kakashi twice with straight movement speed not even the Ice Mirrors, Kakashi who has a superior Sharingan to Sasuke.

And on top of that in the next arc, we have Lee, who beat 2T Sasuke with Taijutsu so badly that he thought it might be illusions or ninjutsu, only for that same Lee to later struggle with someone who claimed their powers moved around the speed of sound(aka Supersonic).

Light Speed Part 1 Genin is just ludicrously inconsistent with the rest of the series.

 

[Damage3245]

Haku is not the argument for refuting his threads brother.

It's probably one of the worse avenues the verse has for LS scaling

The statement is that it is possible for Haku to move between Mirrors at LS not that he always is moving between mirrors at that speed.

And there's no way to prove Haku was using top speeds when Sasuke reacted to him, in fact the added context that Haku never wanted to hurt Naruto and Sasuke suggests otherwise.

We also know that a serious Haku can blitz Kakashi twice with straight movement speed not even the Ice Mirrors, Kakashi who has a superior Sharingan to Sasuke.

And on top of that in the next arc we have Lee, who beat 2T Sasuke so badly with straight hand to hand that he thought it might be illusions or ninjutsu, with that same Lee later struggling with someone who claimed their powers moved around the speed of sound(aka Supersonic).

Thanks for commenting with this. I'm glad I didn't have to.

 

[Damage3245]

Instead, I'm going to point out this
Biju Mode Bee had a grand total of one feat (against Suigetsu). He barely has feats that can be used to judge his power for us to make the outlier argument.

Pretty sure Killer B's Biju Bombs features more times than just this. And it's not about judging his power, it's judging his speed and none of his other feats support a jump of that magnitude.

Haku is LS and is accepted. Before you say anything, see
It doesn't say anything about the characters needing to scale to other characters. Just that they should possess feats/statements of similar magnitude to the hypothetical outlier

I'm pretty sure some scaling would be needed in order to know that they're comparable characters in the first place.

Characters talking in the timeframe of an attack has 0 effects on the narrative of the work. I also pointed out this:

You're assuming the scenes happen directly sequentially instead of potentially taking place concurrently.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Haku is not the argument for refuting his arguments brother.

It's probably one of the worse avenues the verse has for LS scaling

The statement is that it is possible for Haku to move between Mirrors at LS not that he always is moving between mirrors at that speed.

And there's no way to prove Haku was using top speeds when Sasuke reacted to him, in fact the added context that Haku never wanted to hurt Naruto and Sasuke suggests otherwise.

We also know that a serious Haku can blitz Kakashi twice with straight movement speed not even the Ice Mirrors, Kakashi who has a superior Sharingan to Sasuke.

And on top of that in the next arc, we have Lee, who beat 2T Sasuke with Taijutsu so badly that he thought it might be illusions or ninjutsu, only for that same Lee to later struggle with someone who claimed their powers moved around the speed of sound(aka Supersonic).

Light Speed Part 1 Genin is just ludicrously inconsistent with the rest of the series.

complete strawman of everything I've said

I never proposed ftl in reactions or combat, this is purely for perception speed

 

[MinatoSparkle]

you still have given 0 arguments for why juubi's TBB would be ftl, he gets combat speed not attack speed

His Bijuudama intercepts Naruto and Bee's and tags Naruto

Also let's be so for real, LoW Sasuke does not have light speed perception speed

 

[Samlex1234]

Damage's point was (I think) that Mabui wasn't sure Ay could survive despite knowing of his LCM

What does Mabui really know about Ay’s speed? Her hypothetical statements about his speed and durability, which were later proven false, hold no real weight. She wasn’t even sure how durable the Raikage was, she simply hypothesized that his durability might be comparable to the Third Raikage (A3). Since A3 could survive certain conditions, she assumed A4 might survive too.

However, her warning to Tsunade that she would be shredded to pieces was also proven wrong. Tsunade literally emerged from the technique with a kick. Mabui does not fully understand Ay’s combat speed or durability. Her hypothesis was flawed. In fact, Base Ay is more durable than the technique, and Tsunade can even tank it in her base form. Let’s discard that nonsensical statement altogether.

V2 Ay> V1 Ay> Base Ay>~ Mabui justu

 

[Godernet]

on the Mabui point I saw brought up however, I don't think Mabui's opinions on whether or not Ay and Tsunade could survive matter too much considering, y'know...they did survive.

If Mabui was implying that LCM Ay might not have survived that just makes her opinion even more off the mark considering Ay survived in Base with just a couple of scratches.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

What does Mabui really know about Ay’s speed? Her hypothetical statements about his speed and durability, which were later proven false, hold no real weight. She wasn’t even sure how durable the Raikage was, she simply hypothesized that his durability might be comparable to the Third Raikage (A3). Since A3 could survive certain conditions, she assumed A4 might survive too.

However, her warning to Tsunade that she would be shredded to pieces was also proven wrong. Tsunade literally emerged from the technique and countered with a kick. Mabui does not fully understand Ay’s combat speed or durability. Her hypothesis was flawed. In fact, Base Ay is more durable than the technique, and Tsunade can even tank it in her base form. Let’s discard that nonsensical statement altogether.

V2 Ay> V1 Ay> Base Ay>~ Mabui justu

This is a fine counter, I'm just saying why Damage left it in the OP despite the Base Ay stuff being resolved

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

His Bijuudama intercepts Naruto and Bee's and tags Naruto

this doesnt prove relative speeds it just means they hit nothing else

also this is a scene where they shoot multiple TBBs via their mouth, so the energy needed to propel the attacks gets split up between those attacks, if it was a single TBB then maybe but that's not the case here

 

[Nierre]

I'll check out the revamped OP in a couple hours

 

[Damage3245]

on the Mabui point I saw brought up however, I don't think Mabui's opinions on whether or not Ay and Tsunade could survive matter too much considering, y'know...they did survive.

If Mabui was implying that LCM Ay might not have survived that just makes her opinion even more off the mark considering Ay survived in Base with just a couple of scratches.

If I was trying to argue Mabui's statements in order to downgrade their durability then you'd be correct but that's not really the point I was making. Them actually surviving the technique doesn't conflict with the issue I brought up.

 

[Godernet]

complete strawman of everything I've said

I never proposed ftl in reactions or combat, this is purely for perception speed

I don't think you really read what I said, cause I never said you did.

can you prove Haku was at top speed? considering we know his Ice Mirrors have fluctuating speeds up to Light Speed and he never wanted to kill Sasuke.

If you can't then where would Sasuke be getting his FTL Perception from?

Sasuke being at all relative to people relative to the speed of sound makes 0 sense if he can perceive their movements at the speed of light, he'd have more time than he would know what to do with to process what is going on around him.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

this doesnt prove relative speeds it just means they hit nothing else

It's literally just intercepting them before they hit, despite their Bijuudamas already being pretty close before he charged up a Bijuudama

also this is a scene where they shoot multiple TBBs via their mouth, so the energy needed to propel the attacks gets split up between those attacks, if it was a single TBB then maybe but that's not the case here

You're reaching. If they were so much slower than regular Bijuudamas, why would they try it against an opponent they know is very fast?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I don't think you really read what I said, cause I never said you did.

can you prove Haku was at top speed? considering we know his Ice Mirrors have fluctuating speeds up to Light Speed and he never wanted to kill Sasuke.

If you can't then where would Sasuke be getting his FTL Perception from?

Sasuke being at all relative to people relative to the speed of sound makes 0 sense if he can perceive their movements at the speed of light, he'd have more time than he would know what to do with to process what is going on around him.

no I did, aside the top speed stuff you bring in combat speed anti feats lol

as for top speed Ch27 haku acknowledges his ability to perceive hakus movements and that sasuke would get better and better
haku says this power takes a lot of chakra so he cant afford to do this long term
now im faster than children but theyre catching up to my holding back stage i dont wanna kill them but i wanna knock them out, I would use my top speed without killing them and I'd knock them out without killing them, that's holding back, using a lesser speed than what you are capable of is not reasonable when you have a clear agenda and not wanting to kill someone does not neccessitate speeds arent at max capacity, maybe for strength sure

also the databook references this scene calling it literal light speed movement, means this scene is where the literal light speed events took place otherwise they wouldnt include a picture of a scene where he's moving at rel or subrel

 

[Godernet]

If I was trying to argue Mabui's statements in order to downgrade their durability then you'd be correct but that's not really the point I was making. Them actually surviving the technique doesn't conflict with the issue I brought up.

True, but I was just saying that if she can't even correctly gauge his durability I doubt she has an extensive understanding of the upper limits of his physical capabilities outside of maybe a general understanding of the lore around his feats.

But then again if the Cloud Village has a means of confirming that Mabui's jutsu is Light Speed, and there is any doubt that Ay would not be able to survive that speed then you'd have to argue either Ay's top speed was never confirmed by the Cloud (which I doubt) or that it's just slower than ETJ, which is why Mabui is uneasy about it.

I'll leave it at that but I'm more or less neutral leaning towards agreeing with the Mabui point at least.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Sasuke being at all relative to people relative to the speed of sound makes 0 sense if he can perceive their movements at the speed of light, he'd have more time than he would know what to do with to process what is going on around him.

Perception speed not combat speed when Sasuke fought Rock Lee it's specifically stated that being able to perceive him was useless if his body speed can't keep up with him

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It's literally just intercepting them before they hit, despite their Bijuudamas already being pretty close before he charged up a Bijuudama

You're reaching. If they were so much slower than regular Bijuudamas, why would they try it against an opponent they know is very fast?

1)yeah intercepting before they hit doesnt mean it had to travel as much distance as their tbbs
2) making the ten tails flee via evasion still grants tactical advantage, it's flicked away one sure but it'll be difficult dodging multiple coming from many sides
Madara also acknowledges that its dodgable they just dont need to do it, it doesnt change the fact that propelling multiple stops from being able to shoot at peak speed objectively

 

[Testarossa002]

Pretty sure Killer B's Biju Bombs features more times than just this. And it's not about judging his power, it's judging his speed and none of his other feats support a jump of that magnitude.

He went from being roughly Ay level in base to being roughly KCM 2 level in bijuu mode

I'm pretty sure some scaling would be needed in order to know that they're comparable characters in the first place.

Sure

One thing to remember is that in the general shinobi world, not counting freaks of the past like Madara and the Hashirama, the Raikage is the fastest ninja alive.

Per your own scan, Ay's been the fastest ninja since Minato's death. Before I hear anything about being reliable, you were comfortable taking Zetsu's word over WoG statements despite the former never seeing Kirin. That aside, Kumo had intel on Sasuke, his companions and more importantly his past acts which includes his encounter with Haku. In addition. Haku was on the battlefield a few hours prior to Ay's statement, an event that was relayed to the allied HQ (where Ay was)

You're assuming the scenes happen directly sequentially instead of potentially taking place concurrently.

I'm not. Shikasomething relayed the info to Genma at around the same time Mabui activated her jutsu. So it's impossible for the conversations at Mei's location (Genma relaying said info to the Hokage Platoon and Mei) to not have happened after ETJ was activated

 

[KaydeeX]

Using LoW as counter arguments is very poor tbh, Kishi was most likely just throwing scaling around, and he was just getting to it, pretty sure he never considered the long run of the series then. Literally almost everything scaling in that arc got retconned later on including the “speed of light” genins. So now, we’re forced to look at the bigger picture and infer that Haku was holding back due to some statements for consistency issue.

Besides, this is topic has a discussion rule;

“Do not attempt to downgrade Haku or upgrade Naruto and Sasuke based on their fights in the Land of Waves arc, as Haku was not using his full strength against them. Haku stated that he didn't want to kill them on two separate occasions, with Zabuza regarding Haku as being too kind and too gentle, and Sasuke noting that all of Haku's attacks against him were superficial, ultimately coming to the realization that Haku was never trying to kill them.
Do not attempt to use this statement to claim that Haku became stronger as an Edo Tensei, as it is the result of a mistranslation and misunderstanding the context of the statement. The statement is a quote from Haku referring to Naruto getting stronger, which can be seen from the on-site translation here, which matches up with what Haku says in the manga.”

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Using LoW as counter arguments is very poor tbh, Kishi was most likely just throwing scaling around, and he was just getting to it, pretty sure he never considered the long run of the series then. Literally almost everything scaling in that arc got retconned later on including the “speed of light” genins. So now, we’re forced to look at the bigger picture and infer that Haku was holding back due to some statements for consistency issue.

Besides, this is topic has a discussion rule;

“Do not attempt to downgrade Haku or upgrade Naruto and Sasuke based on their fights in the Land of Waves arc, as Haku was not using his full strength against them. Haku stated that he didn't want to kill them on two separate occasions, with Zabuza regarding Haku as being too kind and too gentle, and Sasuke noting that all of Haku's attacks against him were superficial, ultimately coming to the realization that Haku was never trying to kill them.
Do not attempt to use this statement to claim that Haku became stronger as an Edo Tensei, as it is the result of a mistranslation and misunderstanding the context of the statement. The statement is a quote from Haku referring to Naruto getting stronger, which can be seen from the on-site translation here, which matches up with what Haku says in the manga.”

1) no genins are being given light speed, perception speed virtually adds nothing to your speed scaling other than being able to see the movement you cant even counter or do anything with it
2) this rule isnt listed in the current discussion rule page

 

[Godernet]

as for top speed Ch27 haku acknowledges his ability to perceive hakus movements and that sasuke would get better and better
haku says this power takes a lot of chakra so he cant afford to do this long term

Haku being impressed with Sasuke but believes he is past his limits and should go down with his next attack
Sasuke dodges which surprises Haku, only to reveal he has the Sharingan which allowed him to percieve Haku for a moment.
Haku then acknowledges his Ice Mirrors stamina cost and the further Sharingan growth would allow Sasuke to perceive him more and more, so he resolves to end the fight immediately, so Sasuke, who sees Haku is moving for Naruto, jumps in the way and takes the hit.

These aren't just perceptions, these are flat-out reactions from Sasuke's body to dodge Haku and in one case intercept his attack on Naruto, so flat-out movement speed.

These are feats that he couldn't even do against Speed of Sound Base Lee.

And if Haku was moving at top speeds Sasuke dodged attacks that blitzed Kakashi.

now im faster than children but theyre catching up to my holding back stage i dont wanna kill them but i wanna knock them out, I would use my top speed without killing them and I'd knock them out without killing them, that's holding back, using a lesser speed than what you are capable of is not reasonable when you have a clear agenda and not wanting to kill someone does not neccessitate speeds arent at max capacity, maybe for strength sure

When you're massively above someone to the point where they can't even harm you let alone touch you, but you're too soft-hearted to kill them and your main technique is stamina-draining, the logical thing would be to immediately end the fight.

There's a distinction between the desire to end the fight immediately and moving at top speed, he was so far above them that he didn't need his full power or speed to win.

also the databook references this scene calling it literal light speed movement, means this scene is where the literal light speed events took place otherwise they wouldnt include a picture of a scene where he's moving at rel or subrel

this is the KN0 Mifune thing all over again,

Just because a databook uses a picture to reference the ability it's referring to does not mean the databook is referencing that specific instance in which it was used.

and again no one said the Ice Mirrors weren't light-speed, but the databook also says that its possible for them to move at LS not that they always are LS.

 

[Godernet]

Perception speed not combat speed when Sasuke fought Rock Lee it's specifically stated that being able to perceive him was useless if his body speed can't keep up with him

Sasuke dodged Haku's attacks and intercepted his Movement speed to get to Naruto and take the hit for him, it definitely wasn't just perception speed.

Not to mention Sasuke barely comprehending the movements of someone 900,000 times slower than his perception speed would make absolutely no sense.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Sasuke dodged Haku's attacks and intercepted his Movement speed to get to Naruto and take the hit for him, it definitely wasn't just perception speed.

Haki's attacks being Kunais, and the time he intercepted Haku it was when Haku changed his trajectory mid flight

Not to mention Sasuke barely comprehending the movements of someone 900,000 times slower than his perception speed would make absolutely no sense.

Because he thought Rock Lee was using ninjutsu or Genjutsu

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Haki's attacks being Kunais, and the time he intercepted Haku it was when Haku changed his trajectory mid flight

Because he thought Rock Lee was using ninjutsu or Genjutsu

They're Senbon needles, not Kunai.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Haku being impressed with Sasuke but believes he is past his limits and should go down with his next attack
Sasuke dodges which surprises Haku, only to reveal he has the Sharingan which allowed him to percieve Haku for a moment.
Haku then acknowledges his Ice Mirrors stamina cost and the further Sharingan growth would allow Sasuke to perceive him more and more, so he resolves to end the fight immediately, so Sasuke, who sees Haku is moving for Naruto, jumps in the way and takes the hit.

These aren't just perceptions, these are flat-out reactions from Sasuke's body to dodge Haku.

Which is more than he could do against Speed of Sound Base Lee.

no lol
mirror to mirror = light speed
mirror to coming out physically for humans = mhs(scaling off of kakashi)

sasuke knowing where haku is headed, his directions and placements (ftl perception)
sasuke jumping and taking the hit = mhs feat


the difference between this feat and lee asswhooping= emotion amp
also iirc lee was fatigued during the sound speed anti feat

There's a distinction between the desire to end the fight immediately and moving at top speed, he was so far above them that he didn't need his full power or speed to win.

he did not think that
heck sasuke successfully took the hit so haku being massively above to the point of 25% of his speed being enough is just fanfiction
also even if he did think that as a ninja it would be in his best interest to not underestimate someone with growing power and ensure greater energy exertion that gives more security to his victory

Just because a databook uses a picture to reference the ability it's referring to does not mean the databook is referencing that specific instance in which it was used.

and again no one said the Ice Mirrors weren't light-speed, but the databook also says that its possible for them to move at LS not that they always are LS.

its stated LITERAL light speed, so its objectively light speed that ruins your "but its possible to " its stated possible to because it takes him to new heights not that his speed fluctuates during mirror reflection

 

[Testarossa002]

Let's drop the whole kid Sasuke perception stuff
It contradicts even Kirin regardless of whether you think it's light speed or not
A much stronger Sasuke was sure someone with comparable visual prowess to him would be helpless in front of Kirin

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Let's drop the whole kid Sasuke perception stuff
It contradicts even Kirin regardless of whether you think it's light speed or not
A much stronger Sasuke was sure someone with comparable visual prowess to him would be helpless in front of Kirin

Itachi was almost blind and clearly had his field of vision reduced so much less time to react

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Let's drop the whole kid Sasuke perception stuff
It contradicts even Kirin regardless of whether you think it's light speed or not
A much stronger Sasuke was sure someone with comparable visual prowess to him would be helpless in front of Kirin

Although its sasuke who has ftl perception but not reaction or combat thinking another person with no reaction or combat would die to kirin (he was also wrong) BUT I am fine with your suggestion because even without it that still doesnt become an outlier because the outlier feats presented come from inferior entities and not the TBBs themselves

 

[Godernet]

Haki's attacks being Kunais, and the time he intercepted Haku it was when Haku changed his trajectory mid flight

do you think that sharp turn Haku took along with the senbon throw dropped his speed by almost 900,000 times?

Because he thought Rock Lee was using ninjutsu or Genjutsu

Sasuke believing someone beating the breaks off of him could only be illusions or magic should be all you need to know about how well he was "perceiving" what was going on around him.

if he could perceive Lee's movements 900,000 times the speed he could make them, he'd have more than enough time in a second to know that he was just getting beat up or react.

 

[Testarossa002]

Itachi was almost blind and clearly had his field of vision reduced so much less time to react

1. Sasuke had no way of knowing that
2. My statement is from the PoV of Sasuke. He wouldn't develop a jutsu as his trump card if its speed was something a 3T sharingan can track anyways. For all he knows, Itachi could have simply substituted away from the jutsu

 

[MinatoSparkle]

1)yeah intercepting before they hit doesnt mean it had to travel as much distance as their tbbs

Look at the panels again, the Bijuudamas barely travelled any distance from where they're shown flying at the Juubi to when the Juubi's Bijuudama intercepts them

2) making the ten tails flee via evasion still grants tactical advantage, it's flicked away one sure but it'll be difficult dodging multiple coming from many sides
Madara also acknowledges that its dodgable they just dont need to do it, it doesnt change the fact that propelling multiple stops from being able to shoot at peak speed objectively

Why is this objective?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

do you think that sharp turn Haku took along with the senbon throw dropped his speed by almost 900,000 times?

Change in tragectory always changes speed. he is no more moving through reflection if his tragectory changes since that's how reflection works, so Sasuke intercepts Haku's base speed.

Sasuke believing someone beating the breaks off of him could only be illusions or magic should be all you need to know about how well he was "perceiving" what was going on around him.

First I said words that came directly from the manga, you are making assumptions.

if he could perceive Lee's movements 900,000 times the speed he could make them, he'd have more than enough time in a second to know that he was just getting beat up

He started to fight Lee before he activates the sharingan, because he was unable to see his speed he activated the sharingan with the conviction it was a genjutsu or ninjutsu, when the sharingan didn't detect genjutsu or ninjutsu he knew it was taijutsu, but his body was incapable of reacting