P2 Naruto AP Upgrade (+Changes to related characters)

[Godernet]

Sure, but KCM2 wasn't what I was referring to. I'm aware that KCM2 > KCM1.

oh my bad I misread.

But even Naruto's normal KCM1 should be stronger than it's initial showings since he has access to Kurama's full pool rather than the chunk of it he was able to steal and section off from Kurama.

 

[Damage3245]

oh my bad I misread.

But even Naruto's normal KCM1 should be stronger than it's initial showings since he has access to Kurama's full pool rather than the chunk of it he was able to steal and section off from Kurama.

Wouldn't he logically not be using Kurama's full pool of chakra since he has further Kurama transformations that he can tap into? If he was already at max Kurama power, then those transformations wouldn't add anything.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Wouldn't he logically not be using Kurama's full pool of chakra since he has further Kurama transformations that he can tap into? If he was already at max Kurama power, then those transformations wouldn't add anything.

He would still have more since Kurama isn't siphoning chakra from Naruto like he did at first. We also see Naruto has better chakra control in MKCM, being able to form a Bijuudama

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

At least Island level with KN8 (Much stronger than before. Completely broke out of Pain’s Chibaku Tensei), likely Island level+ (KCM Naruto thought that if he, Edo Itachi, and Killer Bee got trapped in it, they'd never get out of Chibaku Tensei, and considered the Nine Tails rampaging as the only way to break free)

I think we should remove the "likely Island level+" part for KN8 Naruto; the nearly-released Nine-Tails breaking from the Chibaku Tensei isn't just a matter of AP but superior Lifting Strength. What the Nine-Tails actually did in breaking through chunks of rock isn't an AP feat that warrants "likely Island level+".

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I think we should remove the "likely Island level+" part for KN8 Naruto; the nearly-released Nine-Tails breaking from the Chibaku Tensei isn't just a matter of AP but superior Lifting Strength. What the Nine-Tails actually did in breaking through chunks of rock isn't an AP feat that warrants "likely Island level+".

But Naruto thought they couldn't break through the chunks of rock

 

[Damage3245]

But Naruto thought they couldn't break through the chunks of rock

Naruto didn't say anything about breaking rocks. He just said it is too strong so they'll never get out if they're trapped, which likely means the gravitational pull would be too strong for them to escape from it. That could mean a few things like them being unable to move (both from gravity and rocks crushing them from above) and unable to form jutsu or apply force under those conditions.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Naruto didn't say anything about breaking rocks. He just said it is too strong so they'll never get out if they're trapped, which likely means the gravitational pull would be too strong for them to escape from it. That could mean a few things like them being unable to move (both from gravity and rocks crushing them from above) and unable to form jutsu or apply force under those conditions.

So should Naruto being 6-C for breaking out be removed?

 

[Nierre]

Damage liking it and not replying is so based I'm crying

 

[Damage3245]

To clarify, yes, I think it should.

 

[Nierre]

It was funnier before you said anything

 

[MinatoSparkle]

To clarify, yes, I think it should.

And what about CT itself? Is it not 6-C+ for being impossible to break out of for them?

 

[Damage3245]

And what about CT itself? Is it not 6-C+ for being impossible to break out of for them?

I wouldn't say it is, yeah.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I wouldn't say it is, yeah.

Seems kinda weird to rate the CT as lower than any of the 3 people who destroyed it

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[Damage3245]

Seems kinda weird to rate the CT as lower than any of the 3 people who destroyed it

I'm not sure that it would be that weird, tbh. They launched simultaneous attacks to play it safe and make sure they reached the core.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm not sure that it would be that weird, tbh. They launched simultaneous attacks to play it safe and make sure they reached the core.

That's not really how it was treated. Naruto was scared shitless and Itachi didn't say they should all attack at once, he said they NEED to. I think at bare minimum, At least 6-C, likely 6-C+ is warranted.

 

[Damage3245]

That's not really how it was treated. Naruto was scared shitless and Itachi didn't say they should all attack at once, he said they NEED to. I think at bare minimum, At least 6-C, likely 6-C+ is warranted.

I don't think either of those are sufficient proof for a likely rating there.

 

[Stryker861]

I kinda agree with damage that it dident neccisarly need all 3 but i do think the ct should be rated higher

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I don't think either of those are sufficient proof for a likely rating there.

Possibly?

 

[Damage3245]

Possibly?

I don't think so. If a character were to be annihilated by three other characters launching a combination attack, we wouldn't assume that their durability was possibly equal to the combined attack.

 

[Ped2018]

I don't think so. If a character were to be annihilated by three other characters launching a combination attack, we wouldn't assume that their durability was possibly equal to the combined attack.

I'm sorry, but i think Itachi's statement about them NEDDING the 3 attacks warrants at least a possibly

 

[Damage3245]

I'm sorry, but i think Itachi's statement about them NEDDING the 3 attacks warrants at least a possibly

This is Itachi's first time witnessing the jutsu. He's not a reliable source here.

It still wouldn't mean anything for the AP of the Chibaku Tensei anyway.

 

[Ped2018]

This is Itachi's first time witnessing the jutsu. He's not a reliable source here.

It still wouldn't mean anything for the AP of the Chibaku Tensei anyway.

Oh well, if you don't agree then i will not argue any further, as i don't have strong feelings about this anyway, and you are the only mod here and i would like this thread to move forward and be concluded

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Gotta agree with Damage here.

 

[Ped2018]

is there something left to discuss here?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This is Itachi's first time witnessing the jutsu. He's not a reliable source here.

It still wouldn't mean anything for the AP of the Chibaku Tensei anyway.

I feel like the Sharingan would allow him to analyze the jutsu decently well but tbh this isn't that important so I can accept removing it to get the rest moving

is there something left to discuss here?

Up to the mods

 

[Ped2018]

Up to the mods

Is the OP updated with the current discussion?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Is the OP updated with the current discussion?

Yup

 

[Damage3245]

I'll do another review of the contents of the OP.

 

[Golden_Void]

is there something left to discuss here?

I still maintain my stance on the rasengan barrage issue.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

And I maintain that it's a very direct statement, and it's leaping to assume it's just talking about DC

 

[Golden_Void]

You've only defended your position by basically claiming, "its what the DB says". I raised several points which I feel weren't refuted at all + there's nothing in the manga suggesting RB is anything more than a spam technique the same way anime characters stereotypically spam attacks. There's nothing suggesting the base move and especially its variants are multiplicative.

 

[Damage3245]

Given the above conversation on the Chibaku Tensei, I think we should remove this bit:

Island level+ with Susano'o (He contributed to a third of the energy output that destroyed Nagato's Chibaku Tensei.[102] Ripped off Edo Nagato's arms[102] with his skeletal Susano'o. He was able to deflect[103] EMS Sasuke's Susano'o arm with his own)

 

[Stryker861]

Given the above conversation on the Chibaku Tensei, I think we should remove this bit:

Itachi should still be relative to bee

 

[Damage3245]

Itachi should still be relative to bee

That's for a different part of his ratings though.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You've only defended your position by basically claiming, "its what the DB says". I raised several points which I feel weren't refuted at all + there's nothing in the manga suggesting RB is anything more than a spam technique the same way anime characters stereotypically spam attacks. There's nothing suggesting the base move and especially its variants are multiplicative.

You feel like that, and I feel the same the other way

Given the above conversation on the Chibaku Tensei, I think we should remove this bit:

It's support, cause that'd be 6-C still

 

[Stryker861]

As far as the 2x rasengan thing goes i think its fine. We get a pretty clear statement on how it works. Naruto can have the 2x ap with it and then simply higher and even higher with his stronger stuff. Unless stated that each rasengan would add a multiplicative buff we shouldent assume that like earlier counter arguments were implying. We simply should just go off what we know