One Piece God-High Tiers Revision

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I have one more thing to say about Ace

Ace should not be comparable to Post-Gura Gura BB or Akainu at all in my eyes, the idea that BB gets no stronger from gaining the Gura Gura Fruit is absurd to me, the very feat that we are scaling to him is a direct result of the power of his Gura Gura Fruit, so the idea that Blackbeard before getting that Fruit can do the same thing and replicate the same power is absurd to me, I refuse to scale Pre-Gura Gura BB to a Post-Gura Gura BB Feat, so because Pre-Gura Gura BB is weaker than Post-Gura Gura, Ace would be weaker as well since he got flat out beaten by Pre-Gura Gura BB, the idea that hitting a weak point with a job allows you to hurt someone far stronger than you is silly to me and I don't see that being valid, there's also this idea around that the singular reason Akainu beat Ace is because he had a stronger devil fruit, well that's the thing, having a stronger devil fruit isn't restricted to only meaning that Akainu only won via a hierarchy of devil fruits, it could totally also mean that Akainu is just flat out stronger in general, and since we're scaling Akainu above Post-Gura Gura BB, it means Ace being equal to Akainu is even more ridiculous

IMO Ace matching Aokiji was just an Outlier, I don't see Ace scaling to these guys when he confirmed lost hard to two guys who are on the 6-B level, I may not even agree with "Possibly 6-B" anymore

 

[KingTempest]

Regardless of rationalisations, Ace and Jozu do not have any feats of equally matching any 6-B level characters on-screen that I know of,

 

[Antvasima]

For the record, I agree with Mitch regarding Ace, and Jozu did not seem to cause Aokiji any actual damage, so "Possibly 6-B" should be enough. We do not know for certain, and there is counter-evidence as well.

 

[Ashura]

I agree with the blackbeard not getting stronger but what i also think is that blackbeard would scale to marco since pre yami yami due to the event with shanks and he was gonna be given the title if 2nd commander.

I don't think his ap would change when he got the yami yami no mi but his ap would change significantly when he got gura gura no mi. Like he displayed a better feat than whitebeard when he used kaishin. Would probably address that as an outliner because whitebeard had better control where as blackbeard only just got the fruit so his display had no control and put his own crew in danger which they scolded him for.

Yes gura gura does increae black beards ap


Yes ace matching aokiji was just their element efficiency. So i don't know what to think of this. But we seen how ace's fruit scales exactly to ace because whitebeard mentioned ace getting stronger with his fruit and then harmed whitebeard with little burns. Which says a lot while he was still in training.

Yes Ace evenly matched akainu in a clash but lost due to element superiority.
Ace again only died because he jumped in the way of akainu to save luffy. Haki now has regen neg + akainu devil fruit superiority.

There is a lot of facts and statements that are getting downplayed and called off as being an outliner like jozu got caught off gaurd in his fight due to marco's situation with a vice admiral that snuk up behind him with sea stone cuffs.

I once rest my case because i want this thread to finish so we can move on.

Can we please just see who agrees and disagrees with the current thread changes for now? Then we can work out something afterwards.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes Ace evenly matched akainu in a clash but lost due to element superiority.

He didn't. He lost in the clash and got burned by Akainu's attack.

Him being able to be burned at all is due to Devil Fruit superiority. Him losing the clash and being in a position to be burned is due to his inferiority towards Akainu.

 

[KingTempest]

Ace should not be comparable to Post-Gura Gura BB or Akainu at all in my eyes, the idea that BB gets no stronger from gaining the Gura Gura Fruit is absurd to me, the very feat that we are scaling to him is a direct result of the power of his Gura Gura Fruit, so the idea that Blackbeard before getting that Fruit can do the same thing and replicate the same power is absurd to me,

We have numerous examples of people without their Devil Fruits scaling to (if not above) their Devil Fruits.
Kaido can harm people that can harm his Seiryu form.
Sabo can hurt Burgess with his physicals who can take hits from his Mera Mera.
Enel can break Wyper's skates which can take lightning blasts from his Goro Goro.
A half dead Whitebeard with half his face blown off and a hole in his chest can cut into Blackbeard's arm, same Blackbeard who took his Gura Gura, and a number of people scale.

I refuse to scale Pre-Gura Gura BB to a Post-Gura Gura BB Feat, so because Pre-Gura Gura BB is weaker than Post-Gura Gura

There is nothing at all that states that Pre Gura Gura is weaker. Even though I don't believe he's stronger, you would need to prove that his attack potency is lower. The only thing shown to be risen by Gura Gura is the Destructive Capacity.

, Ace would be weaker as well since he got flat out beaten by Pre-Gura Gura BB,

Aokiji lost to Akainu and was stated to be his equal. There is a difference between losing and having less AP. You're ignoring the fact that every single hit Ace landed harmed Blackbeard. There is a huge difference.

the idea that hitting a weak point with a jab allows you to hurt someone far stronger than you is silly to me and I don't see that being valid,

Pressure Points

Pressure Points are a concept in many Eastern martial arts, referring to special parts of the body that, when struck, can cause intense pain, paralysis, and potentially even death, among many other possible effects, some of which are more beneficial. Causing unbearable pain to an opponent...

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there's also this idea around that the singular reason Akainu beat Ace is because he had a stronger devil fruit, well that's the thing, having a stronger devil fruit isn't restricted to only meaning that Akainu only won via a hierarchy of devil fruits, it could totally also mean that Akainu is just flat out stronger in general, and since we're scaling Akainu above Post-Gura Gura BB, it means Ace being equal to Akainu is even more ridiculous

We are also scaling Akainu to Aokiji, who Ace matched.
It's only ridiculous because of your argument from disbelief.

We get one instance of Devil Fruit superiority in One Piece working in effect prior to Oda's SBS about it (Ace and Akainu), and then Oda states that "having a superior devil fruit ≠ being stronger". 99% percent sure he's talking about Ace and Akainu.

IMO Ace matching Aokiji was just an Outlier, I don't see Ace scaling to these guys when he confirmed lost hard to two guys who are on the 6-B level, I may not even agree with "Possibly 6-B" anymore

Ace has more feats than antifeats and should be comparable to his peers who scale there. I fail to see why Ace is High 7-A when his peers are 6-B.

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[KingTempest]

A friend of mine just informed me.

There was no instance of Ace even getting overpowered.

All it shows was him getting burned, the Magma was never shown to overpower the fire.

 

[Damage3245]

@KingTempest; to me, it looks like the magma is overpowering the fire on the top panel; and it reaches Ace on the lower right panel which shows Ace's hand engulfed in Akainu's blast.

He didn't match it halfway like Aokiji's ice.

 

[Eminiteable]

@KingTempest; to me, it looks like the magma is overpowering the fire on the top panel; and it reaches Ace on the lower right panel which shows Ace's hand engulfed in Akainu's blast.

He didn't match it halfway like Aokiji's ice.

That's because Akainu's magma melts through fire.

 

[KingTempest]

@KingTempest; to me, it looks like the magma is overpowering the fire on the top panel; and it reaches Ace on the lower right panel which shows Ace's hand engulfed in Akainu's blast.

He didn't match it halfway like Aokiji's ice.

The magma splattered out because it is a liquid and it covered the fire in the panel.
Also, this might explain it

That's because Akainu's magma melts through fire.

In the bottom middle of the page I just sent, they were the exact same distance away from each other as they were in the top when collided.

I hope none of you are arguing from what was shown in the anime, because the anime made Ace get sent flying while the manga just made him lie on the ground and complain about his burnt hand.

Ace matched him and got burnt, he didn't get overpowered.

 

[LordGinSama]

I have one more thing to say about Ace

Ace should not be comparable to Post-Gura Gura BB or Akainu at all in my eyes, the idea that BB gets no stronger from gaining the Gura Gura Fruit is absurd to me,

Physically Teach doesn't get Stronger with the Gura, he can enhance his blows with Quakes but it doesn't make him any more strong or durable.

the very feat that we are scaling to him is a direct result of the power of his Gura Gura Fruit, so the idea that Blackbeard before getting that Fruit can do the same thing and replicate the same power is absurd to me,

This much i can agree with but this doesn't have to do with Ace not scaling.

I refuse to scale Pre-Gura Gura BB to a Post-Gura Gura BB Feat, so because Pre-Gura Gura BB is weaker than Post-Gura Gura, Ace would be weaker as well since he got flat out beaten by Pre-Gura Gura BB,

Again context matters a lot here, Ace only lost the fight due to the Yami Yami's no Mi's abilities. Most Devil Fruit users would be beaten by him, due to his Fruit being a hard counter to literally all fruits.

the idea that hitting a weak point with a job allows you to hurt someone far stronger than you is silly to me and I don't see that being valid,

what weak point? Ace never attacked Teach in his weak points, but Teach on the other hand attacked Ace's weak points several times.

there's also this idea around that the singular reason Akainu beat Ace is because he had a stronger devil fruit, well that's the thing, having a stronger devil fruit isn't restricted to only meaning that Akainu only won via a hierarchy of devil fruits, it could totally also mean that Akainu is just flat out stronger in general,

This is another issue, nobody is insinuating that Ace is equal in might to Akainu, we're arguing that they're comparable with Akainu being stronger. Each Commander has shown the ability to stall the Admirals and not get stomped instantly.

and since we're scaling Akainu above Post-Gura Gura BB, it means Ace being equal to Akainu is even more ridiculous

Blackbeard ran away from Akainu, Akainu at this point is stronger than his Marineford self, so I don't see this being a real argument myself.

IMO Ace matching Aokiji was just an Outlier, I don't see Ace scaling to these guys when he confirmed lost hard to two guys who are on the 6-B level, I may not even agree with "Possibly 6-B" anymore

Ace matching Kuzan absolutely isn't an outlier, he has other feats that make his stuff consistent. He recovered from an attack from a bloodlusted Akainu and was ready to attack again, left burns on Whitebeard after his training and all of this was done whenever he wasn't in ideal conditions. None of Ace's feats are outliers and all of them proof consistency.

 

[LordGinSama]

The magma splattered out because it is a liquid and it covered the fire in the panel.
Also, this might explain it


In the bottom middle of the page I just sent, they were the exact same distance away from each other as they were in the top when collided.

I hope none of you are arguing from what was shown in the anime, because the anime made Ace get sent flying while the manga just made him lie on the ground and complain about his burnt hand.

Ace matched him and got burnt, he didn't get overpowered.

Hell even the burn he did get from Akainu wasn't anything too significant was Ace got backed up and still had his hand. Akainu being the same guy who can melt flesh and bone with direct application.

 

[Ashura]

As we can see ace never got overpowered, when people in one piece get overpowered it always shows they struggling or getting sent flying. In this case it only shows that his hand got burnt. Ace pulled back and fell to his back screaming in agony because of the burns, there's no statement about the difference of strength between them only the fact that akainu has a superior devil fruit. Whitebeard's crew was even shocked that akainu's devil fruit had even managed to burn ace not knowing of the superiority between magu magu and mera mera. Not one mentioned that ace lost the clashed.

 

[KingTempest]

Hell even the burn he did get from Akainu wasn't anything too significant was Ace got backed up and still had his hand. Akainu being the same guy who can melt flesh and bone with direct application.

We even see Ace kneeling there after getting burned and he's just there regenerating. He's not even wincing or anything, he's just there regenerating his fire.

And Akainu is less than half a meter away from Luffy and Ace could cover all of that distance (obviously more distance than Akainu had to cover) and turn and intercept his punch before Akainu was able to hit him.

So Ace matched his attack and is faster than him, so that says a lot.

 

[Damage3245]

As we can see ace never got overpowered, when people in one piece get overpowered it always shows they struggling or getting sent flying. In this case it only shows that his hand got burnt. Ace pulled back and fell to his back screaming in agony becauae of the hurns, there's no statement about the difference of strength between them only the fact that akainu has a superior devil fruit. Whitebeard's crew was even shocked that akainu's devil fruit had even managed to burn ace not knowing of the superiority between magu magu and mera mera. Not one mentioned that ace lost the clashed.

Pre-Gura Blackbeard = Fights Ace one on one and wins.

Post-Gura Blackbeard with his full crew to support him = Runs away from Akainu.

Do you seriously think there is no difference in strength between them? That Akainu's singular advantage over Ace is his Devil Fruit is hotter than Ace's?

 

[Antvasima]

Look, Ace, Jozu, and pre-TS Blackbeard are too uncertain to be given definitive tiers. Me and Damage are not going to accept placing them at straight 6-B no matter how much you argue about it. Please just accept that, apply the accepted revisions, and move on, so we can finally close this thread. Me and Damage are completely overworked enough as it is, and do not have the time available to indulge you any further. My apologies.

 

[Antvasima]

Pre-Gura Blackbeard = Fights Ace one on one and wins.

Post-Gura Blackbeard with his full crew to support him = Runs away from Akainu.

Do you seriously think there is no difference in strength between them? That Akainu's singular advantage over Ace is his Devil Fruit is hotter than Ace's?

Yes. Akainu's raw power is greatly superior.

 

[LordGinSama]

There's a difference between them but Ace is still roughly comparable.


Tbh I think I'd take a flat out rating of "Possibly 6-B."

Look, Ace, Jozu, and pre-TS Blackbeard are too uncertain to be given definitive tiers. Me and Damage are not going to accept placing them at straight 6-B no matter how much you argue about it. Please just accept that, apply the accepted revisions, and move on, so we can finally close this thread. Me and Damage are completely overworked enough as it is, and do not have the time available to indulge you any further. My apologies.

I'm just gonna say Ant this sets a really bad example, so I guess now we're just gonna be forced to concede to your arguments now simply because? I respect you but this shouldn't be how this works, if you don't have the time you don't need to follow it if I'm gonna be honest.


Would you rather us have a discussion and come to a logical conclusion or pull a random tier out of our arse like you guys wanted earlier? At least we're giving arguments and not a random tier based upon personal feelings.

 

[Ashura]

Pre-Gura Blackbeard = Fights Ace one on one and wins.

Post-Gura Blackbeard with his full crew to support him = Runs away from Akainu.

Do you seriously think there is no difference in strength between them? That Akainu's singular advantage over Ace is his Devil Fruit is hotter than Ace's?

Black beard running from akainu is his thing. Not like he was shook or anything, you guys looking at black beards character completely wrong. Blackbeard only fights when his win % is higher. He don't take chances or risk. He's a very smart and calculative guy. If he had fought akainu the ships that he wanted would most likely be destroyed in battle. He was laughing his ass off while running away so he was not inferior in the slightest. He just doesn't do unnecessary fights that can cost him. He's patient.

 

[Eminiteable]

I think the High 7-A reasoning on their profiles is arbitrary but "Possibly 6-B" for Ace, Pre-Gura BB & Jozu (ignoring his dura in Diamond form) is fine.

 

[KingTempest]

There's a difference between them but Ace is still roughly comparable.


Tbh I think I'd take a flat out rating of "Possibly 6-B."

I'm just gonna say Ant this sets a really bad example, so I guess now we're just gonna be forced to concede to your arguments now simply because? I respect you but this shouldn't be how this works, if you don't have the time you don't need to follow it if I'm gonna be honest.


Would you rather us have a discussion and come to a logical conclusion or pull a random tier out of our arse like you guys wanted earlier? At least we're giving arguments and not a random tier based upon personal feelings.

Gin, it's alright..

I'll apply the changes, I'll inform when I'm done

 

[Antvasima]

I think that a straight "Possibly 6-B" rating seems like an acceptable compromise solution.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, my apologies for setting my foot down earlier, but beyond a certain point, staff members simply do not have the time to argue in circles anymore, especially not me and Damage, who probably work around 12 hours every day managing the wikis that we are caretakers of.

 

[LordGinSama]

Also, my apologies for setting my foot down earlier, but beyond a certain point, staff members simply do not have the time to argue in circles anymore, especially not me and Damage, who probably work around 12 hours every day taking care of the wikis that we are caretakers of.

Don't sweat it, and I appreciate the amount of work you do for the wiki.


I also think the possibly alternative would be the best case, and we can primarily scale him to the weaker of the two Admirals, being Kuzan and use his Akainu clash as supportive.


"Possibly 6-B" (Matched and canceled an attack from Kuzan, and momentarily clashed with Akainu.)


Akainu is stronger than Kuzan, as he beat him in combat, Ace matched an attack from Kuzan so we can scale him below MF Kuzan as his primary scaling as opposed to Akainu, he can be used an a supportive feat.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that a straight "Possibly 6-B" rating seems like an acceptable compromise solution.

Damage also has a say in this though.

 

[Antvasima]

Don't sweat it, and I appreciate the amount of work you do for the wiki.

I also think the possibly alternative would be the best case, and we can primarily scale him to the weaker of the two Admirals, being Kuzan and use his Akainu clash as supportive.

"Possibly 6-B" (Matched and canceled an attack from Kuzan, and momentarily clashed with Akainu.)

Akainu is stronger than Kuzan, as he beat him in combat, Ace matched an attack from Kuzan so we can scale him below MF Kuzan as his primary scaling as opposed to Akainu, he can be used an a supportive feat.

Okay. Kuzan has a habit of seldom going all out though. He is lazy most of the time.

 

[Damage3245]

"Possibly 6-B" (Matched and canceled an attack from Kuzan, and momentarily clashed with Akainu.)

I thought we were already using "At least High 7-A, possibly 6-B" for Ace?

This compromise seems best to me.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I thought we were already using "At least High 7-A, possibly 6-B" for Ace?

This compromise seems best to me.

Shouldn’t Blackbeard’s first key also have high 7-A, possibly 6-B?

 

[Damage3245]

Shouldn’t Blackbeard’s first key also have high 7-A, possibly 6-B?

I already said yes to this up above.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I already said yes to this up above.

Kk

 

[KingTempest]

Changes have been applied. Please inform me if I should revise anything or if I made any errors.

Marshall D. Teach (Blackbeard)

Marshall D. Teach, also known by his epithet ‘Blackbeard’, is the captain, later admiral, of the Blackbeard Pirates and one of the Yonko who rules over the second half of the Grand Line, the New World. He was once an ambitious former member of the Whitebeard Pirates, specifically in the second...

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Portgas D. Ace

Portgas D. Ace, also known as "Fire Fist" Ace, was the son of the late Gol D. Roger who was secretly adopted by Monkey D. Garp and given the surname of his dying mother Portgas D. Rogue. Placed under the care of Curly Dadan, Ace eventually met his guardian's grandson Monkey D. Luffy and the two...

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Jozu

Jozu is an infamous pirate in the New World and the former Third Division Commander of the Whitebeard Pirates. He is one of the most prominent and powerful members of his crew, and possesses the epithet "Diamond" thanks to the abilities of his Devil Fruit, the Kira Kira no Mi. After their...

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This thread can be closed if everything is complete, thank you.

 

[Damage3245]

Just a thought, but since Jozu has an actual calc linked in his justification, why does he has a "Possibly Class T via powerscaling" rating?

 

[KingTempest]

It's gone now, that was there for a while for some reason

 

[Antvasima]

I thought we were already using "At least High 7-A, possibly 6-B" for Ace?

This compromise seems best to me.

I think that what was intended was that their profile page tiers should say "Possibly 6-B" and nothing else.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I think that what was intended was that their profile pages should say "Possibly 6-B" and nothing else.

Should anything be done about vista before this is closed? It's weird to see 2 of his fellow yonko commanders at possibly 6-B, while he's only possibly High 7-A @Damage3245

 

[Damage3245]

Should anything be done about vista before this is closed? It's weird to see 2 of his fellow yonko commanders at possibly 6-B, while he's only possibly High 7-A

I could have sworn we said something about putting Vista as Unknown earlier in the thread.

But I'm okay with him being High 7-A, possibly 6-B as well if necessary.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I could have sworn we said something about putting Vista as Unknown earlier in the thread.

But I'm okay with him being High 7-A, possibly 6-B as well if necessary.

Seems fair.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with upgrading Vista as well. He seemed considerably more dangerous than Jozu or Ace, as he was able to tackle Akainu and stand up to Mihawk (although Mihawk seldom remotely tries hard).

 

[KingTempest]

Vista has been updated

 

[Damage3245]

I think all the changes have been made. This could be closed now.