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Chopper could develop antibodies if he survives the plague and synthesize an antidote that way. I still want him to pull this off on his own though, more spotlight on his medical genius would be good.
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One Piece Chapter 995: "Kunoichi's Oath" (Official Release)
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Usopp tanked at least one of the headbutts
Eminiteable
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Yeah I guess this shows that the assumption that the Flying six > Apoo was wrong. Since X Drake who's supposed to be one of the strongest is struggling even with help.
Queen should scale above him since Apoo seems pretty terrified of him.
Queen should scale above him since Apoo seems pretty terrified of him.
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He probably already there since he one shot Luffy who's got 7-A+ durability.
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Since Usopp survived an Ulti Meteor and kept on fighting and then survived a second one (but was incapacitated by it), does that mean his durability would scale to 7-A?
As for Nami, she survives one but it's heavily implied she would have died to a second one, so I don't know if she would also have 7-A Durability. At best I can imagine her with possibly 7-A durability.
As for Nami, she survives one but it's heavily implied she would have died to a second one, so I don't know if she would also have 7-A Durability. At best I can imagine her with possibly 7-A durability.
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Possibly 7-A should be fine since there's no way they would survive an attack that's 100 times stronger than them otherwise.
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Usopp says "not again" when he was about to be hit which implies he's already been hit by an Ulti Meteor off-screen, but was able to keep on fighting, and then was incapacitated by the second on screen Ulti Meteor.
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Actually, it might be possible that Ulti hit Nami and Usopp with an even stronger Ulti Meteor than the one she hit Luffy with since she's been in her hybrid state since the beginning of the Nami/Usopp vs Ulti/Page-One fight, and her hybrid state should be quite a bit stronger than her base form, which is what hurt Luffy.
Now some might say that she's holding back, but I think that's unlikely.
a) If you look close enough, Ulti's forehead seems to be covered in Haki when she performed the on screen Ulti Meteor and I doubt someone would use armament while holding back. And based off all showings of Ulti Meteor, she seems to always use armament Haki, so it's likely the off-screen Ulti Meteors might have been coated in haki as well.
And b) She flat out states that she's very pissed and was going to kill Nami if she didn't say that Luffy wasn't gonna be the pirate king. Now there are some characters that are able to hold back even when pissed off, but I don't think Ulti is one of them cause of her childish personality and how easy it seems to anger her.
One last thing, the reason why there was more electricity in the Ulti Meteor against Luffy instead of the one used on Usopp is cause Luffy's armament Haki clashed with hers, while Usopp doesn't have armament so he didn't clash.
Now some might say that she's holding back, but I think that's unlikely.
a) If you look close enough, Ulti's forehead seems to be covered in Haki when she performed the on screen Ulti Meteor and I doubt someone would use armament while holding back. And based off all showings of Ulti Meteor, she seems to always use armament Haki, so it's likely the off-screen Ulti Meteors might have been coated in haki as well.
And b) She flat out states that she's very pissed and was going to kill Nami if she didn't say that Luffy wasn't gonna be the pirate king. Now there are some characters that are able to hold back even when pissed off, but I don't think Ulti is one of them cause of her childish personality and how easy it seems to anger her.
One last thing, the reason why there was more electricity in the Ulti Meteor against Luffy instead of the one used on Usopp is cause Luffy's armament Haki clashed with hers, while Usopp doesn't have armament so he didn't clash.
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Going through the list of discussions I see:
1) No, Usopp and Nami can not scale to Ulti or Page. Their attacks clearly didn't do anything, and Ulti easily took both of them out while trying to get attention from Page by begging for his help. Them being able to continue fighting is, surprise, a stamina feat if they are suffering large damage but not going down. We would not scale a character for having their arm broken from blocking a kick even if they were to continue fighting. Same applies here (Usopp's skull nearly shattering, and his nose breaking from a head-butt, but miraculously remaining conscious). Also, plot armor. Usopp and Nami are not allowed to die unless the story deems it necessary.
3) Apoo blocking both Drake and Zoro does not make him 2x 420 MT. It'd be different if he were blocking both at once with the same arm and not budging. He instead blocked them with each arm (+ a weapon, so if anything, the weapon durability would be the only thing factoring, not his physical).
4) I doubt Queen got the memo about Jinbe being an official member of the crew. He could have mistaken it as an alliance thing. Besides, Zoro and Sanji are definitely not 2nd/3rd best fighters present on Luffy's side. You have Law, Kid, Marco and other potential contenders including Yamato.
5) Looks like Carrot can finally have a tier (only for Sulong though). Yay, 7-A Carrot.
1) No, Usopp and Nami can not scale to Ulti or Page. Their attacks clearly didn't do anything, and Ulti easily took both of them out while trying to get attention from Page by begging for his help. Them being able to continue fighting is, surprise, a stamina feat if they are suffering large damage but not going down. We would not scale a character for having their arm broken from blocking a kick even if they were to continue fighting. Same applies here (Usopp's skull nearly shattering, and his nose breaking from a head-butt, but miraculously remaining conscious). Also, plot armor. Usopp and Nami are not allowed to die unless the story deems it necessary.
- However, they are likely to be victorious now because of the presense of O-tama. Her Devil Fruit works on Zoan users, and she could likely take control of either Ulti or Page and turn them against eachother. She can make her little possession balls, and Usopp can fire one into either Ulti or Page's mouth (likely Page since Ulti has a mask on atm)
3) Apoo blocking both Drake and Zoro does not make him 2x 420 MT. It'd be different if he were blocking both at once with the same arm and not budging. He instead blocked them with each arm (+ a weapon, so if anything, the weapon durability would be the only thing factoring, not his physical).
4) I doubt Queen got the memo about Jinbe being an official member of the crew. He could have mistaken it as an alliance thing. Besides, Zoro and Sanji are definitely not 2nd/3rd best fighters present on Luffy's side. You have Law, Kid, Marco and other potential contenders including Yamato.
- Also, Queen's not an omniscient being, so his word is opinionated and can not be taken for granted, especially since he's NEVER battled Zoro, Sanji or Jinbe.
5) Looks like Carrot can finally have a tier (only for Sulong though). Yay, 7-A Carrot.
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The fact that their heads aren't turned to mush means that their durability has to in some way scale to 7-A or high end 7-B (not equal to Ulti, they would downscale extremely), and no one was scaling them ap wise (at least I wasn't), only durability was brought up since of course they did nothing to Ulti and Page-One.
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Big Mom wonders how Marco was able to hurt Prometheus and he responds stating that his flames have a special property. I don't see how this could be related to the AP, and even if it was, even Brook was able to hurt Prometheus, the durability of the homies should'nt scale to the durability of Big Mom herself.
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Plot Armor, because again, Nami and Usopp--being part of the main cast--are not going to die even if they are being completely stomped. There's 0 reason for them to scale to Ulti in any feasible way.
AP is a no-go. Ulti was not damaged by Usopp, and Page + Ulti tanked the bamboo javelin and broke them on contact.
Durability is also a no-go. Usopp's skull cracked severely in several locations and he was incapacitated from one head-butt. Nami was also incapacitated and visibly wounded.
People complain about me preaching "Stamina, not Durability", but if a character suffers injury and gets back up, that's tenacity, not them tanking the attack.
@Ryuga21 - Wait, who said Prometheus scales to Big Mom's Durability?
Them being fragmented souls of Big Mom eliminates them from being remotely close to her in power. Prometheus would only be At least 7-A anyways scaling to Zeus--who one-shot Judge.
I only mentioned Marco not being drastically weaker than Big Mom since he wasn't outright stomped and BM acknowledged him as a threat twice.
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Idk just take that to mean not all commanders should be considered on the same tier tbh. We knew the Whitebeard Pirates were always considered in a league of their own anyways (deemed the strongest pirate fleet in the ace novels, Big Mom treating Whitebeard and possibly his crew above the other Yonkos, the fact that even when they were younger they could fight on par with the Roger Pirates)
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But going off of context, Usopp was likely hit by an Ulti Meteor off screen and kept on fighting until he was hit on screen.
The reason I say this is because of three reasons:
1) He has a missing tooth, when in the beginning of the fight both Nami and him were perfectly fine.
2) He's bloodied up and has battle damage.
3) He flat out says not again just as he was about to be hit, which heavily implies that he was hit before by the same move and doesn't want to be hit again (this might be mistranslation, so we will have to wait for the official translations).
All three together imply that he survived an off-screen Ulti Meteor and kept on fighting.
Nami also was hit by one off-screen as she is bleeding in the forehead, the same area that Ulti targets with the Ulti Meteor.
But if we're gonna treat it as outliers, than that's whatever.
The reason I say this is because of three reasons:
1) He has a missing tooth, when in the beginning of the fight both Nami and him were perfectly fine.
2) He's bloodied up and has battle damage.
3) He flat out says not again just as he was about to be hit, which heavily implies that he was hit before by the same move and doesn't want to be hit again (this might be mistranslation, so we will have to wait for the official translations).
All three together imply that he survived an off-screen Ulti Meteor and kept on fighting.
Nami also was hit by one off-screen as she is bleeding in the forehead, the same area that Ulti targets with the Ulti Meteor.
But if we're gonna treat it as outliers, than that's whatever.
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Who said anything about an outlier? Usopp is wounded, he's not tanking the hits. Damage is piling up, but he's getting up for more.
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So if there is any damage then it doesn't count as tanking ? This is new
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Any damage no, but there is a massive difference from Sanji vs Vergo (a minor fracture, kept fighting) and Usopp vs Ulti (a massive fracture, removed from battle). Coming back after being damaged is a stamina feat, not a "it actually didn't hurt him much" feat.
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Just before Ulti lands the headbutt shown in the chapter, Usopp says "Not again" and Usopp is actually shown to be bleeding from his head before the on-panel headbutt - strongly implying he'd taken at least one earlier off-panel. Although I would wait for the official release in case there was a mistranslation
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I don't think so, It's clear with X Drake that although Apoo wanted the role of a Robbi roppo it wasn't solely due to him previously lacking the power to be there (he's technically not a headliner so he would never have got the opportunity)
Only Queen and King should scale far above Apoo since Queen threatens Apoo that he will kill him and Apoo takes it completely seriously, so I imagine those two are above Apoo and their scaling can stay the same.
The other Flying Six besides X Drake would require other justification for 7-A+
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@Eminiteable - The Tobi Roppo are scaling from Ulti, who in base is (should be) At least 7-A in base for overpowering and doing light damage to Base Luffy. 7-A+ with Zoan Transformations due to Luffy's reaction to potentially being hit by the head-butt, and feeling the need to use Gear 4th.
They are also regarded as being superior to any of the other headliners, which may very well include Apoo and Hawkins (More of a "supported" reason rather than justification for a flat-out 7-A+ value).
Apoo being able to defend against both Drake and Zoro does not suggest in any way he is their equal or superior (Particularly because he is using weapons to do so). This logic would imply someone like Law is equal to Doflamingo physically for the same reasoning. Blocking Zoro + Drake with his bare-hands would change this matter entirely (minus Haki since it's a stat-boost that we don't apply to stats unless there's a specific level suggested... like for Bellamy and G4 Luffy).
Granted, I personally think Apoo could go even with someone like Drake and perhaps Zoro in a fight, but since we got a time-limit, it seems Apoo will either be defeated quickly, or Apoo will betray the Beast Pirates and give the anti-body to the alliance.
@RoyGundam - And again, Usopp clearly didn't tank the attack considering how damaged he is when we popped in to see the "fight". I don't think you understand how massive the difference is between a bruise and massive breaking of bone beneath the skin and muscles if you are serious about this.
Case A: Law takes a beating from a Haki-imbued Vergo, and we see him taking a series of punches and kicks, but being shown only mildly damaged (minus the part where Vergo does "heart-squeeze). Law's durability would scale comparable but weaker to a Haki-imbued Vergo, which is already > his base stats.
Case B: Sanji suffers a fractured bone from clashing with Vergo, however he continues to clash with him several times prior and post this event without suffering noticeable damage and going quite even with him. Therefore Sanji's AP and Durability would scale at least comparative to Vergo's base stats.
Case C: Luffy's Elephant Gun manages to break Fujitora's guard and leave a bruise on his cheek. Fujitora later clashes even against Gear 3rd Luffy and successfully blocks against attacks from Gear 2nd. Both are only shown suffering bruising (at most) by the end of their skirmish. Gear 3/Fujitora are both considered comparable in physical AP/Durability in relation to Fujitora's casual DF output.
Case D: Usopp's engagement against Ulti is primarily off-panel, so we lack context in certain cases, but we do see him taking a head-butt that results in his nose breaking, and his skull cracking in several places before being momentarily incapacitated. He does not scale in durability because the damage he took here was quite massive.
They are also regarded as being superior to any of the other headliners, which may very well include Apoo and Hawkins (More of a "supported" reason rather than justification for a flat-out 7-A+ value).
Apoo being able to defend against both Drake and Zoro does not suggest in any way he is their equal or superior (Particularly because he is using weapons to do so). This logic would imply someone like Law is equal to Doflamingo physically for the same reasoning. Blocking Zoro + Drake with his bare-hands would change this matter entirely (minus Haki since it's a stat-boost that we don't apply to stats unless there's a specific level suggested... like for Bellamy and G4 Luffy).
Granted, I personally think Apoo could go even with someone like Drake and perhaps Zoro in a fight, but since we got a time-limit, it seems Apoo will either be defeated quickly, or Apoo will betray the Beast Pirates and give the anti-body to the alliance.
@RoyGundam - And again, Usopp clearly didn't tank the attack considering how damaged he is when we popped in to see the "fight". I don't think you understand how massive the difference is between a bruise and massive breaking of bone beneath the skin and muscles if you are serious about this.
Case A: Law takes a beating from a Haki-imbued Vergo, and we see him taking a series of punches and kicks, but being shown only mildly damaged (minus the part where Vergo does "heart-squeeze). Law's durability would scale comparable but weaker to a Haki-imbued Vergo, which is already > his base stats.
Case B: Sanji suffers a fractured bone from clashing with Vergo, however he continues to clash with him several times prior and post this event without suffering noticeable damage and going quite even with him. Therefore Sanji's AP and Durability would scale at least comparative to Vergo's base stats.
Case C: Luffy's Elephant Gun manages to break Fujitora's guard and leave a bruise on his cheek. Fujitora later clashes even against Gear 3rd Luffy and successfully blocks against attacks from Gear 2nd. Both are only shown suffering bruising (at most) by the end of their skirmish. Gear 3/Fujitora are both considered comparable in physical AP/Durability in relation to Fujitora's casual DF output.
Case D: Usopp's engagement against Ulti is primarily off-panel, so we lack context in certain cases, but we do see him taking a head-butt that results in his nose breaking, and his skull cracking in several places before being momentarily incapacitated. He does not scale in durability because the damage he took here was quite massive.
- And frankly, any more than that would be fatal or an insta-kill, so it's quite obvious the damage was held back a bit to prevent Usopp from literally dying (or somehow surviving an attack that would say, "turn his head into mush")
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Usopp's skull most likely cracked from the on-panel headbutt, meaning he tanked the earlier headbutt(s)
You are confusing no-selling an attack with tanking it I think, because cases A and B are clearly examples of tanking attacks while case C is more close to no-selling one
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Not putting Jack in 7A+ is really strange if we are going by this path, he does not have much in this tier, but he has too much to be in another tier, he defeated an army of >>377, possibly 420 characters and was only finished by two characters that can be anything from 7A+ to H7A to 6C (and still only suffered a scar and had one of his tusks was severed).
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Usopp took more than one head attack from Ulti, he should PARTLY scale in durability.
Also, the fact that Ulti broke his skull doesn't mean anything. Even Sanji broke Luffy's skull with his first kick.
Also, the fact that Ulti broke his skull doesn't mean anything. Even Sanji broke Luffy's skull with his first kick.
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Yeah, I'm not engaging in some debate about whether or not Usoop tanked a headbutt off panel. @CinCameron20 seems to be putting that down himself without my time and effort.
Soul Manipulation is more likely than overpowered since Marco would have said his flames are strong instead of special. Also on the subject of abilities it appears basic Armament haki can bypass his region just like any other DF and the assumption it could not is proven wrong. Marco was freaking out that he'd be killed by the candy armament arrow despite his DF.
Also marksmanship should be added to his profile when the officials come out.
Soul Manipulation is more likely than overpowered since Marco would have said his flames are strong instead of special. Also on the subject of abilities it appears basic Armament haki can bypass his region just like any other DF and the assumption it could not is proven wrong. Marco was freaking out that he'd be killed by the candy armament arrow despite his DF.
Also marksmanship should be added to his profile when the officials come out.
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@Dr.Fix - Marco being worried about Pero could also just be because of inconvenience since he'd be fighting 2v1 against a Yonko and a man worth 700m beli. I would've rather seen if Pero actually could do lasting damage to Marco. We'll never know now since Carrot/Wanda are most likely killing Pero here and now.
@Lgamer099_99 Taking more than one attack doesn't justify scaling durability IF the damage is actually massive. Again, STAMINA. Usopp was already bloodied and missing a tooth by the time we see him, and as far as we know, there could have only been one instance where he took a hit prior to the on-panel head-butt. Thick and dark blood indicates a vein or artery was punctured, so before being hit on-panel, he was definitely suffering from serious damage.
Show me Sanji breaking Luffy's Skull. And Diable Jambe has partial Dura negation anyways + Sanji's Base AP is only slightly inferior to Luffy's Base Dura at that point (and Luffy was already injured and thus weakened on top of being completely docile). Also, the "Crak" sfx indicates Sanji was using Haki (since Rubber doesn't crack like cartilage or bone), so if anything, Sanji's Haki + Diable Jambe AP is slightly > a weakened, tired and docile Luffy's Dura... not exactly helping Usopp's case here.
@RoyGundam - No, "Tanking" indicates a character can tank through an attack i.e. durability. Take cases where a character is struck repeatedly and suffers no clear sign of damage, that's tanking.
Characters who take a hit, but only suffer light damage and are otherwise fine (bruising/scratch/very light bleeding) is often referred to as "withstanding" because their durability was enough to hold-up against x level of attack.
Usopp has massive bleeding when we first see him, so there's no tanking nor withstanding attacks here, and one attack cracked his skull severely and broke his nose. Where does this suggest his durability is comparable to Ulti's AP? The fact he isn't dead is a plot convenience, and it's awfully convenient now that O-tama, a character who can control Zoan users and has PELLET shaped treats is here--where a marksman can potentially shoot them into the mouth of 2 Zoan users for an easy victory.
However, I will say that due to potential 7-A dura/AP feats of the executives from Dressrosa vs 7-A characters, Usopp and Nami might end up getting a "At least Low 7-B, potentially 7-A" upgrade if the discussion goes through.
@Lgamer099_99 Taking more than one attack doesn't justify scaling durability IF the damage is actually massive. Again, STAMINA. Usopp was already bloodied and missing a tooth by the time we see him, and as far as we know, there could have only been one instance where he took a hit prior to the on-panel head-butt. Thick and dark blood indicates a vein or artery was punctured, so before being hit on-panel, he was definitely suffering from serious damage.
Show me Sanji breaking Luffy's Skull. And Diable Jambe has partial Dura negation anyways + Sanji's Base AP is only slightly inferior to Luffy's Base Dura at that point (and Luffy was already injured and thus weakened on top of being completely docile). Also, the "Crak" sfx indicates Sanji was using Haki (since Rubber doesn't crack like cartilage or bone), so if anything, Sanji's Haki + Diable Jambe AP is slightly > a weakened, tired and docile Luffy's Dura... not exactly helping Usopp's case here.
@RoyGundam - No, "Tanking" indicates a character can tank through an attack i.e. durability. Take cases where a character is struck repeatedly and suffers no clear sign of damage, that's tanking.
Characters who take a hit, but only suffer light damage and are otherwise fine (bruising/scratch/very light bleeding) is often referred to as "withstanding" because their durability was enough to hold-up against x level of attack.
Usopp has massive bleeding when we first see him, so there's no tanking nor withstanding attacks here, and one attack cracked his skull severely and broke his nose. Where does this suggest his durability is comparable to Ulti's AP? The fact he isn't dead is a plot convenience, and it's awfully convenient now that O-tama, a character who can control Zoan users and has PELLET shaped treats is here--where a marksman can potentially shoot them into the mouth of 2 Zoan users for an easy victory.
However, I will say that due to potential 7-A dura/AP feats of the executives from Dressrosa vs 7-A characters, Usopp and Nami might end up getting a "At least Low 7-B, potentially 7-A" upgrade if the discussion goes through.
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So what do you call it when a character takes an attack and is still able to continue fighting despite probably heavy damage ? Because that is what Usopp was doing
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The double standard here kills me.
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Stamina feat.
Eminiteable
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Apoo isn't a headliner though, he has a special role which is in charge of the Numbers. But if the Robbi Roppo have their scaling from being superior to Base Ulti I see no issue with that.
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The official translation is out.
Also, should Usopp get some sort of Acid Manipulation considering when his Green Star: Devil attack Ulti, he said to it to “Now melt her down”
Also, should Usopp get some sort of Acid Manipulation considering when his Green Star: Devil attack Ulti, he said to it to “Now melt her down”
Eminiteable
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Bump official release
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Yes he should, it's digestive acid created by the venus flytrap thing I believe.
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Seems Queen is referring to Drake and Zoro as the Number two and Three. But that means he's not specifically referring to the Strawhat crew or based by bounties... So does this mean Queen thinks Drake and Zoro are the second and third strongest on the alliances side based off their feats against Apoo? I'm unsure.
I guess he would have more knowledge of Drake's strength, and he's seen a little bit of what Luffy's capable off in gear fourth (he should also know that he bear cracker and Katakuri). But this means Queen believes Drake & Zoro > Jinbe, Kid, Law and other high level members in the alliance.
I guess he would have more knowledge of Drake's strength, and he's seen a little bit of what Luffy's capable off in gear fourth (he should also know that he bear cracker and Katakuri). But this means Queen believes Drake & Zoro > Jinbe, Kid, Law and other high level members in the alliance.
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You're right, I wasn't quite thinking when I typed that. Still, I think if Carrot goes through with it, she and Wanda might be able to kill Perospero.
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what- where did you get Queen talking about Drake and Zoro? He has Zoro's and Sanji's bounties in his hands..
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Regardless of who Queen is talking about, it doesn't necessarily matter since he would be greatly underestimating the alliance if he were talking about Zoro/Sanji/Drake being in the top 3. Queen's opinion is not exactly reliable since he's probably never seen the other alliance members in action (and it's strange that he'd be ignoring Jinbe, Kid, Law, MARCO, and Yamato, who are all immensely powerful)
@Lgamer099_99 - He was talking about Drake and then Zoro before saying "It's better to take out the 2nd and 3rd strongest fighters", then he looked at the bounties (there's more in his hand btw. A whole stack), noting that one of the Vinsmokes was part of the SHs. But either way, it doesn't matter since character opinions aren't factual (At least when said character hasn't even fought any of the people mentioned).
- Also, given the context of the statement, Queen might be implying Drake to be stronger than Zoro.
