One Piece Chapter 1026: "The Pivotal Clash" (Official Release)

[Eminiteable]

However, the fact that he lasted as long as Jack against Neko's Sulong form when they are both in a direct combat until the cloud covers the moon is already telling that Perospero did just as well as Jack against a Sulong Duke the moment he wasn't caught offguard and was in an actual combat.

True, I guess Perospero's durability scales to injured Nekomamushi.

Vergo proceeds to nearly break Sanji's leg in a kicking clash, if you call that being weaker...
His head got sent flying.
Maybe perospero likes

I said Diable Jambe, not base Sanji who in that scene had a weaker body due to Nami taking the explosions while in his body.

 

[Ebitan34]

I don't know why you sent that twice;

Vergo got hit by disable Jambe which made him bleed, meaning he is weaker.

Queen got hit but he didn't get sent flying.

The other options are Kaido, who gets thrown around by everyone whether drunk or sober.

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op_1014_005.png

Heck if anything Queen got thrown around by Chopper, and it means nothing to Queen.

 

[Ebitan34]

True, I guess Perospero's durability scales to injured Nekomamushi.

I said Diable Jambe, not base Sanji who in that scene had a weaker body due to Nami taking the explosions while in his body.

Honestly I doubt his physical durability scales to the zoans, however his arsenal allowed him to last as long as Jack against a Sulong Duke, meaning that Peropero's overall combat prowess is ~= to Jack, however it might not necessarily be his sheer physical stats and might have to do with his DF Candy abilities more.

 

[Eminiteable]

Heck if anything Queen got thrown around by Chopper, and it means nothing to Queen.

Queen was also unharmed and laughed at him afterwards then claimed he was playing with him, not the best example to use.

This is also a clearly different example, getting grappled and thrown the ground is far different from getting punched and sent flying.

 

[Ebitan34]

Queen was also unharmed and laughed at him afterwards then claimed he was playing with him, not the best example to use.

This is also a clearly different example, getting grappled and thrown the ground is far different from getting punched and sent flying.

The point is there were already multiple incidents of stronger characters getting thrown around/sent flying by possibly weaker characters which included Kaido, Queen and Vergo, where their overall combat prowess was likely higher than the assailant who sent em flying.

 

[Eminiteable]

The point is there were already multiple incidents of stronger characters getting thrown around/sent flying by possibly weaker characters which included Kaido, Queen and Vergo, where their overall combat prowess was likely higher than the assailant who sent em flying.

I understood the point you are trying to make perfectly, but like I said those examples aren't valid;

• Queen didn't get sent flying from that hit.
• Vergo got sent flying and was left bleeding from diable Jambe, not base Sanji.
• Kaido got sent flying by anyone and everyone.

 

[Ebitan34]

I understood the point you are trying to make perfectly, but like I said those examples aren't valid;

• Queen didn't get sent flying from that hit.
• Vergo got sent flying and was left bleeding from diable Jambe, not base Sanji.
• Kaido got sent flying by anyone and everyone.

Katakuri also got sent flying by Bounceman's Kong Gun.
But right afterwards this happens:

Did this mean that Bounceman Luffy at this point was more powerful than Katakuri? Hell no. Katakuri's overall combat ability was still above Gear 4 Luffy at this point.

 

[Eminiteable]

Katakuri also got sent flying by Bounceman's Kong Gun.
But right afterwards this happens:

Did this mean that Bounceman Luffy at this point was more powerful than Katakuri? Hell no. Katakuri's overall combat ability was still above Gear 4 Luffy at this point.

Yeah it does actually, Katakuri had to rely on his awakening to actually harm Luffy in Boundman.

 

[Ebitan34]

I understood the point you are trying to make perfectly, but like I said those examples aren't valid;

• Queen didn't get sent flying from that hit.
• Vergo got sent flying and was left bleeding from diable Jambe, not base Sanji.
• Kaido got sent flying by anyone and everyone.

1) Getting thrown around is still a telling sign.
2) Yes, but did this mean that his overall power was lower than Sanji at that point? Nope. A stronger combatant can stil be sent flying by a weaker one.
3) And Kaido is >>> everyone at that point. Which further proofs my point that just because a character gets sent flying doesn't rightaway mean that he is weaker than the assailant.

 

[Ebitan34]

Yeah it does actually, Katakuri had to rely on his awakening to actually harm Luffy in Boundman.

Still doesn't change the fact that Katakuri was more powerful than Luffy overall at that point of time no matter it is awakening or not since it is part of Katakuri's abilities.

My point that a more powerful character can still get sent flying by punches by an overall weaker combatant still stands perfectly.

 

[Eminiteable]

1) Getting thrown around is still a telling sign.
2) Yes, but did this mean that his overall power was lower than Sanji at that point? Nope. A stronger combatant can stil be sent flying by a weaker one.
3) And Kaido is >>> everyone at that point. Which further proofs my point that just because a character gets sent flying doesn't rightaway mean that he is weaker than the assailant.

I think getting grappled and thrown to the ground compared to getting punched and sent flying are two very different things. Especially when the person being thrown around even admits letting it happen.

Nope but it means his durability is lower than Diable Jambe, and since Vergo is a physical fighter that means Diable Jambe is more powerful than him.

It really doesn't considering Kaido literally let's people hit him and throw him around.

Still doesn't change the fact that Katakuri was more powerful than Luffy overall at that point of time no matter it is awakening or not since it is part of Katakuri's abilities.

My point that a more powerful character can still get sent flying by punches by an overall weaker combatant still stands perfectly.

Sure Katakuri with awakening has more AP than Luffy did with Boundman at that point, but that doesn't scale to his durability when he got sent flying.

Honestly I doubt his physical durability scales to the zoans

however his arsenal allowed him to last as long as Jack against a Sulong Duke, meaning that Peropero's overall combat prowess is ~= to Jack, however it might not necessarily be his sheer physical stats and might have to do with his DF Candy abilities more.

True I guess.

I agree that his candy weapons scale above his physicals, not sure about them scaling comparable Jack as we haven't really seen their full capabilities other injuring an injured Neko off-screen. Although it could work.

 

[CinCameron20]

Katakuri also got sent flying by Bounceman's Kong Gun.
But right afterwards this happens:

Did this mean that Bounceman Luffy at this point was more powerful than Katakuri? Hell no. Katakuri's overall combat ability was still above Gear 4 Luffy at this point.

I'm just gonna say Bounce-Man > Katakuri in straight up power. Katakuri NEVER once goes head-on against that form and comes out on top. His only feat is redirecting a punch by striking it on the side, and doing gradual damage during their 25 minute showdown.

And when Neko was captured fodder who cut off his arm, pretty sure most characters when injured/out of stamina have their durability lower? Never argued against that?

Not at all

I thought Jack cut off Neko's arm. We see Inu's leg removed by Jack. Point is Perospero took a hit from Neko and got up moments after, and he actually survived against Sulong for a short period. He even proceeded to wound Neko afterwards.

Fodder do hurt vastly superior characters a lot in this manga, which isn't the point here. The point is that we clearly see Perospero is capable of actually tussling with Neko to some extent... an individual who stalemates Jack. We currently have Cracker/Katakuri scaling FAR BELOW the Tobi Roppo, yet Perospero took a hit from and wounded a character equal to Jack.

The other children of Big Mom even point out Katakuri to be stronger than Perospero.

 

[CinCameron20]

Not saying Katakuri > Jack in durability, but it's kinda fishy to have him even below the Tobi Roppo when he was an extreme-diff fight for Luffy's Gear 4th forms.

Page got KO'd by Gear 3rd. Idc about the arguments. That's what happened. He went night-night til next chapter.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Luffy need g4th to oneshot Numbers, and Luffy only used g3rd to do the same to Page1. Numbers > Page1?

 

[RoyGundam]

Fan translations out BTW

 

[Damage3245]

We currently have Cracker/Katakuri scaling FAR BELOW the Tobi Roppo

Just wait until the Tobi Roppo end up scaling to 6-B. Then the scaling gaps will become enormous.

 

[Ebitan34]

I'm just gonna say Bounce-Man > Katakuri in straight up power. Katakuri NEVER once goes head-on against that form and comes out on top. His only feat is redirecting a punch by striking it on the side, and doing gradual damage during their 25 minute showdown.


I thought Jack cut off Neko's arm. We see Inu's leg removed by Jack. Point is Perospero took a hit from Neko and got up moments after, and he actually survived against Sulong for a short period. He even proceeded to wound Neko afterwards.

Fodder do hurt vastly superior characters a lot in this manga, which isn't the point here. The point is that we clearly see Perospero is capable of actually tussling with Neko to some extent... an individual who stalemates Jack. We currently have Cracker/Katakuri scaling FAR BELOW the Tobi Roppo, yet Perospero took a hit from and wounded a character equal to Jack.

The other children of Big Mom even point out Katakuri to be stronger than Perospero.

Oh when I meant power I don't mean by sheer physical stats. It is obvious that Bounceman's physical AP > Katakuri's since Katakuri's defense could not stand up to Bounceman and was getting sweeped until he regained his composure and starts seeing the future again. However, when I mean the term combat "power" I don't just mean physical AP and durability, but overall combat prowess which includes DF awakening, CoO, speed etc which adds up and makes a fighter > the other in overall fighting power.

In this scenario Bounceman's Physical AP was > Katakuri's however Katakuri's combat power was overall still above Bounceman's, if that makes sense.

This is also another reason I didn't think that base neko sending pero flying is an overall indicator that his combat power > Pero's despite him possibly having a physical advantage. Pero pero's overall combat power afterwards allowed him to survive Neko's Sulong form just as long as Jack survived Inu's Sulong form.

 

[Ebitan34]

Just wait until the Tobi Roppo end up scaling to 6-B. Then the scaling gaps will become enormous.

If Peropero could scale to Jack, wouldn't this mean that Kata and gang would also scale up in return rofl.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I agree that Katakuri should be more powerful than the Tobi Roppo.

 

[CinCameron20]

Luffy need g4th to oneshot Numbers, and Luffy only used g3rd to do the same to Page1. Numbers > Page1?

He didn't "need" Gear 4th to take them on. He used Gear 4th earlier when he, Law and Kid combined their efforts to take out a ship full of fodder. I don't think anyone here is going to argue Luffy needing Gear 4th to take on a group of fodders.

Oda was just showcasing how Luffy does not suffer as much from the side-effects from using Gear 4th anymore. He was very drained even when using a single punch on Big Mom and reverting back immediately after. Scaling the Numbers above Gear 3rd just because Luffy happened to pop Gear 4th to take them out seems nonsensical, especially when you consider the fact Brook one-shot a Number, Franky one-shot a Number, Robin very casually injured a Number, Yamato one-shot a Number, and a handful of Sulong Minks (probably around Carrot's level) defeated a Number.

• Considering how some of the listed characters were capable of defeating Tobi Roppo, albeit with extreme-difficulty (Franky and Robin. Yamato did it with ease, albeit with a Thunder Bagua, which I would consider to be one of her strongest attacks anyways), it should be clear that the Numbers are far inferior to the Tobi Roppo. Luffy did not need Gear 4th. The fact the wiki treats it as though they are comparable to Gear 3rd is utterly laughable to me.

And it goes without saying, going by the ranking system of the Beast Pirates (emphasized heavily to be based on power multiple times): King > Queen > Jack > Tobi Roppo (stated numerous times to be the strongest Head-liners, and next in line to be a Lead Performer) > Numbers (They are representing the Number cards, which are directly below "Jack") >/~/< Headliners (strongest Gifters, but their levels vary significantly) > Gifters > Pleasures/Waiters.

Now I gotta rant about blatant feats showing the sizable gap between the Tobi Roppo and Numbers.

• Robin ("Base") dismisses Number 9 and 2 Gifters with a casual attack before running away from them and Maria.Base Robin gets absolutely man-handled by Maria despite her best efforts. Demonio Fleur practically stomps Maria. Brook goes on to stomp the Number and Gifters while displaying struggles when assisting Base Robin 2v1 against Maria. Demonio Robin > Maria > "Base" Robin ~ Brook >/>> Number 9
• Franky's case is iffy since the Radical Beam would probably negate durability if it operates how we see Kizaru's beams work. Either way, Franky one-shot a Number with his Radical Beam. He was unable to take down Sasaki with his Shogun's capabilities, and in fact lost his Shogun by the end of the fight. He takes Sasaki down by shooting at his belly (weak-point) after already landing 2 serious blows on him.
• Luffy basically "KO'd" Page with his Elephant Gun, but he also one-shot KO'd a Number with his Kong Gun. Only difference is that Page actually got back up at some point and recovered rather quickly. The Number is STILL KO'd.
• X-Drake one-shot a Number in Hybrid Form. Pretty blatant here.

The Tobi Roppo are depicted between moderately to massively above the Numbers no matter where you look. The only questionable case is Page since I'm willing to bet he is carried by Ulti, especially since his bounty is well over 100 million under the others (Bounty =/= Power, but feats kind of support his inferiority anyways).

 

[PrinceofPein]

Me remembering when I said if perospero ever matched neko it is going to mess up the speaking chain☺

Let's see how KT goes about the new scaling chain


Well if anything I will say they should not be scaled based on "this guy should be greater than this guy" or "this guy is of higher rank so he should be greater"
I say it just be "who scales or who fought who did feat X" or just "Direct statements and feats"

 

[Darkvie123]

Are there people who rly think Tobbi Roppo > Katakuri/Cracker? Oh man. Jinbe who couldn't do anything to Katakuri in WCI midd diffed Who's Who who is supposed to be the strongest of the Tobi Roppo

 

[CinCameron20]

Me remembering when I said if perospero ever matched neko it is going to mess up the speaking chain☺

Let's see how KT goes about the new scanning chain


Well if anything I will say they should be scaled based on "this guy should be greater than this guy" or "this guy is of higher rank so he should be greater"
I say it just be "who scales or who fought who did feat X" or just "Direct statements and feats"

It's quite simple, tbh.

Personally I wouldn't even scale the Tobi Roppo from Page "tanking" a punch from Gear 3rd Luffy. Sadly, that's gonna stick, which is ridiculous.

Perospero's AP would scale to Base Neko's Durability, which already scales to Jack's AP. The Sweet Commanders would be stronger than Perospero given they are considered the strongest of BM's children, and Katakuri is stated multiple times to be the strongest.

 

[Darkvie123]

It's quite simple, tbh.

Personally I wouldn't even scale the Tobi Roppo from Page "tanking" a punch from Gear 3rd Luffy. Sadly, that's gonna stick, which is ridiculous.

Perospero's AP would scale to Base Neko's Durability, which already scales to Jack's AP. The Sweet Commanders would be stronger than Perospero given they are considered the strongest of BM's children, and Katakuri is stated multiple times to be the strongest.

I Agree with Cin

 

[WrongIdea21]

He didn't "need" Gear 4th to take them on. He used Gear 4th earlier when he, Law and Kid combined their efforts to take out a ship full of fodder. I don't think anyone here is going to argue Luffy needing Gear 4th to take on a group of fodders.

They're on their competition so it doesn't count.

Oda was just showcasing how Luffy does not suffer as much from the side-effects from using Gear 4th anymore. He was very drained even when using a single punch on Big Mom and reverting back immediately after. Scaling the Numbers above Gear 3rd just because Luffy happened to pop Gear 4th to take them out seems nonsensical, especially when you consider the fact Brook one-shot a Number, Franky one-shot a Number, Robin very casually injured a Number, Yamato one-shot a Number, and a handful of Sulong Minks (probably around Carrot's level) defeated a Number.

Brook, Franky, Robin, Yamato and Jinbe would scale to be equal or above Tobi Roppo > Gear 3rd, Page 1 is the weakest Tobi Roppo btw. I agree on Gear 3rd scales above Numbers, but Still Tobi Roppo would scale to Gear 4th.

Considering how some of the listed characters were capable of defeating Tobi Roppo, albeit with extreme-difficulty (Franky and Robin. Yamato did it with ease, albeit with a Thunder Bagua, which I would consider to be one of her strongest attacks anyways), it should be clear that the Numbers are far inferior to the Tobi Roppo. Luffy did not need Gear 4th. The fact the wiki treats it as though they are comparable to Gear 3rd is utterly laughable to me.

Yamato Thunder Bagua can match Kaido's Thunder Bagua, who one shoted Luffy in Gear 4th form in base form. Ulti only need few minutes to recovering from the head shot without any serious damage. Tobi Roppo scales above Geard 3rd ? Yes.

And it goes without saying, going by the ranking system of the Beast Pirates (emphasized heavily to be based on power multiple times): King > Queen > Jack > Tobi Roppo (stated numerous times to be the strongest Head-liners, and next in line to be a Lead Performer) > Numbers (They are representing the Number cards, which are directly below "Jack") >/~/< Headliners (strongest Gifters, but their levels vary significantly) > Gifters > Pleasures/Waiters.

I agree

Now I gotta rant about blatant feats showing the sizable gap between the Tobi Roppo and Numbers.

• Robin ("Base") dismisses Number 9 and 2 Gifters with a casual attack before running away from them and Maria.Base Robin gets absolutely man-handled by Maria despite her best efforts. Demonio Fleur practically stomps Maria. Brook goes on to stomp the Number and Gifters while displaying struggles when assisting Base Robin 2v1 against Maria. Demonio Robin > Maria > "Base" Robin ~ Brook >/>> Number 9
• Franky's case is iffy since the Radical Beam would probably negate durability if it operates how we see Kizaru's beams work. Either way, Franky one-shot a Number with his Radical Beam. He was unable to take down Sasaki with his Shogun's capabilities, and in fact lost his Shogun by the end of the fight. He takes Sasaki down by shooting at his belly (weak-point) after already landing 2 serious blows on him.
• Luffy basically "KO'd" Page with his Elephant Gun, but he also one-shot KO'd a Number with his Kong Gun. Only difference is that Page actually got back up at some point and recovered rather quickly. The Number is STILL KO'd.
• X-Drake one-shot a Number in Hybrid Form. Pretty blatant here.

The Tobi Roppo are depicted between moderately to massively above the Numbers no matter where you look. The only questionable case is Page since I'm willing to bet he is carried by Ulti, especially since his bounty is well over 100 million under the others (Bounty =/= Power, but feats kind of support his inferiority anyways).

I agree.

 

[Antvasima]

It's quite simple, tbh.

Personally I wouldn't even scale the Tobi Roppo from Page "tanking" a punch from Gear 3rd Luffy. Sadly, that's gonna stick, which is ridiculous.

Perospero's AP would scale to Base Neko's Durability, which already scales to Jack's AP. The Sweet Commanders would be stronger than Perospero given they are considered the strongest of BM's children, and Katakuri is stated multiple times to be the strongest.

Maybe you should start a CRT about this?

 

[Damage3245]

Maybe you should start a CRT about this?

We're holding off on Wano revisions.

Fight looks like it might not be too much longer tbh. Ten chapters at most.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Darkvie123]

Damn cant believe Wano is reaching its end soon

 

[Antvasima]

It will probably take a while longer. I wonder what happens with Blackbeard afterwards though. Does he attack while his rivals are weakened?

 

[Damage3245]

It will probably take a while longer. I wonder what happens with Blackbeard afterwards though. Does he attack while his rivals are weakened?

Blackbeard is likely going after the ex-Warlords right now. It will be interesting to see what his reactions are to the Wano aftermath.

 

[Ebitan34]

Blackbeard is likely going after the ex-Warlords right now. It will be interesting to see what his reactions are to the Wano aftermath.

I personally think that Shiryu is secretly trying to get the Orochi DF for Blackbeard in Wano now. Orochi is still alive for one single reason and I believe it is that.

 

[Ebitan34]

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/opc_1026_009.png

Luffy using barrier Haki to strike Kaido, the same type where Rayleigh used to block Elephant kick and what Sentomaru used.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally think that Shiryu is secretly trying to get the Orochi DF for Blackbeard in Wano now. Orochi is still alive for one single reason and I believe it is that.

I think that it is so Momo's sister can kill him until he stays dead.

 

[WrongIdea21]

I personally think that Shiryu is secretly trying to get the Orochi DF for Blackbeard in Wano now. Orochi is still alive for one single reason and I believe it is that.

Shiryu already had one DF, BB have two because his Body structure. It wouldn't make sense if he can eat two. DF too.

 

[RoyGundam]

Shiryu already had one DF, BB have two because his Body structure. It wouldn't make sense if he can eat two. DF too.

I believe the most popular theory is that Blackbeard is actually multiple people. I think three is the most likely scenario - and he will still add one more devil fruit power completing the trifecta of Logia (Yami), Paramecia (Gura), and Zoan (either Orochi's/Kaido's/Marco's)

Orochi's fruit gives additional lives (Blackbeard is a coward), and the other two help to overcome the major weakness of the Yami Yami no mi - i.e. the fact that it doesn't grant Logia intangibility and increases any damage that he takes

 

[Ebitan34]

Shiryu already had one DF, BB have two because his Body structure. It wouldn't make sense if he can eat two. DF too.

I meant he would be stealing the DF for BB.

 

[WrongIdea21]

I believe the most popular theory is that Blackbeard is actually multiple people. I think three is the most likely scenario - and he will still add one more devil fruit power completing the trifecta of Logia (Yami), Paramecia (Gura), and Zoan (either Orochi's/Kaido's/Marco's)

Orochi's fruit gives additional lives (Blackbeard is a coward), and the other two help to overcome the major weakness of the Yami Yami no mi - i.e. the fact that it doesn't grant Logia intangibility and increases any damage that he takes

It's like BB had multiple personality, Brain which he can switch ( to stay Awake), many Heart and other organs ( so he can keep his DF in another Heart/organs).

Yami Yami doesn't have Intangbility maybe Because Darkness is physically doesn't exist.

 

[WrongIdea21]

I meant he would be stealing the DF for BB.

My bad.

 

[Tipper17]

Well, I agree that Katakuri should be more powerful than the Tobi Roppo.

same