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Ok.

Naruto had 100x Kakashi's chakra amount.

30% Kisame had = reserves to Naruto.

Kisame 333x stronger than Kakashi.

Case closed.
 
Thats because Bijuu chakra is stronger than normal chakra. Also the cloak is a transformation that amps you.

Yes the amount of chakra that ninjutsu has does affect AP, not the chakra reserves of a person though, because you are not puting all of your chakra into a punch at once.
Nice, now would you like to respond to the other statements instead of cherry-picking like kids, for example, start with those Neji sensed Kisame chakra and said he didn't saw that much POWER since naruto, on top of that Kisame was stated to have Jinchuriki like chakra which's putting out Jinchuriki like power
 
Ok.

Naruto had 100x Kakashi's chakra amount.

30% Kisame had = reserves to Naruto.

Kisame 333x stronger than Kakashi.

Case closed.
Naruto had 4x times Kakashi Chakra its 100x with Kuuybi Chakra, Secondly, that was naruto while he was training with Kakashi (Wind Release Training) which way stronger than the naruto Neji was talking about.

Naruto (4x Kakashi) >> Naruto (that Neji saw) >= 30% Kisame >> Kakashi
 
Chakra is not power and I'm pretty sure Naruto has more chakra than Kisame, you can change my mind.
 
Having more power than kid Naruto is not really impressive.
that's not the point my ass, the point is that Neji knew that Kisame is as strong as Naruto by just sensing his chakra.
No, he is stated to have jinchuriki like chakra AND jinchurki like power, not that he has that much power because of his reserves.
Lmao, I started losing it here, his source of power is his own chakra My Ass, Kisame has Jinchuriki Level Chakra that putting out Jinchuriki Level Power what does that implies other than what I'm saying.
 
Kisame has Jinchuriki Level Chakra that putting out Jinchuriki Level Power

Nope, he is only stated to have jinchuriki like power when he fuses with his sword. So he is that strong because of a transformation, not because of his reserves.

1aPBIx2.png
 
Nope, he is only stated to have jinchuriki like power when he fuses with his sword. So he is that strong because of a transformation, not because of his reserves.

1aPBIx2.png
the Jinchuriki level chakra doesn't say that it without the sword to begin with on top of that there's no evidence that his fusing with his sword makes his chakra astronomically higher. let alone that's according to the kages, but feat-wise and according to Kisame himself, we saw that even in his base he was Jinchuriki level seeing him fighting with Killer Bee -a Jinchuriki- and when he fuse with his blade he calls himself a Biju. and that's ignoring the fact that you still running from other statements like Neji's or even the very first one that implies that killer bee being weaker when he lose his chakra.
 
no evidence that his fusing with his sword makes his chakra astronomically higher
It makes his power higher. His base could still have jinchuriki like chakra reserves and it wouldn't affect AP.
and that's ignoring the fact that you still running from other statements like Neji's
Already debunked that.
or even the very first one that implies that killer bee being weaker when he lose his chakra.
Yeah, because V1 and V2 cloaks are transformations of course he gets weaker.
 
It makes his power higher. His base could still have jinchuriki like chakra reserves and it wouldn't affect AP.
his base has already Jinchuriki like powers feat-wise as I proved before, so a statement that with his fusing blade has Jinchuriki like powers change nothing since "Jinchuriki-like" is a range not a particular level.
Already debunked that.
wait what ?? your debunk was like "Having more power than kid Naruto is not really impressive." which's not the case in the first place MY ASS I already refuted in that like 2 posts ago I said, "that's not the point my ass, the point is that Neji knew that Kisame is as strong as Naruto by just sensing his chakra."
Yeah, because V1 and V2 cloaks are transformations of course he gets weaker.
LMAO, he wasn't talking about the transformation at all, he said that he will absorb his chakra which will make him stronger and make Killer Bee weaker let alone that the transformation is just a pure chakra boost.
 
his base has already Jinchuriki like powers feat-wise
Base Killer Bee is not Bijuu level.
the point is that Neji knew that Kisame is as strong as Naruto by just sensing his chakra
Ok? I too would think that Kisame is stronger than Kid Naruto just by seeing him.
he said that he will absorb his chakra which will make him stronger and make Killer Bee weaker
Yeah, Kisame has the ability to amp himself with stolen chakra. Also everyone gets weaker once they are drained out of chakra. But you still have full AP even if your chakra is halved, for example Kakashi.
 
Base Killer Bee is not Bijuu level.
Never stated he was , I said he's jinchuriki level which's all what I want since base kisame is jinchuriki level chakra-wise not biju level.
Ok? I too would think that Kisame is stronger than Kid Naruto just by seeing him.
But that's not the case , Neji didn't assume shit , he sensed his over whelming chakra then stated he didn't saw that much power since Naruto.
Yeah, Kisame has the ability to amp himself with stolen chakra. Also everyone gets weaker once they are drained out of chakra. But you still have full AP even if your chakra is halved, for example Kakashi.
But again that's not the case because kisame didn't said you will get weakend once I absorb most of your chakra he said as long as I continue absorbing your chakra you will get even weaken than what you are which also implying that he's already weakened yet he wasn't drained out of chakra or near dead like what you're assuming he's in fact was still in his V2 form.
 
Naruto had 4x times Kakashi Chakra its 100x with Kuuybi Chakra,
No.
He had 100x when his chakra wasn't being suppressed by Yamato, who suppressed his chakra when he went 4 tails.
Secondly, that was naruto while he was training with Kakashi (Wind Release Training) which way stronger than the naruto Neji was talking about.
He said chakra reserves. Neji has seen his recent chakra reserves, as he does before every damn mission.
Naruto (4x Kakashi) >> Naruto (that Neji saw) >= 30% Kisame >> Kakashi
Via your bs reasoning, no.
 
the Jinchuriki level chakra doesn't say that it without the sword to begin with on top of that there's no evidence that his fusing with his sword makes his chakra astronomically higher. let alone that's according to the kages,
He says his chakra reserves are without the sword.
He says his jinchuriki like power is with the sword.
but feat-wise and according to Kisame himself, we saw that even in his base he was Jinchuriki level seeing him fighting with Killer Bee -a Jinchuriki-
He blew his chest off

0471-013.png

and when he fuse with his blade he calls himself a Biju.
I'm ctfu
and that's ignoring the fact that you still running from other statements like Neji's
Check message above
or even the very first one that implies that killer bee being weaker when he lose his chakra.
Where are these fake ass translations coming from?
0471-014.png

He doesn't say a single thing about Bee getting weaker.
Your arguments are based on fan translations.
Ok now
 
He says his chakra reserves are without the sword.
He says his jinchuriki like power is with the sword.
you clearly misunderstand what I said so I will just copy it here again "his base has already Jinchuriki like powers feat-wise as I proved before, so a statement that with his fusing blade has Jinchuriki like powers change nothing since "Jinchuriki-like" is a range, not a particular level."

again if you didn't understand, Kisame was able to take a hit from 8 tails V2 Kisame and survive that automatically puts him at Jinchuriki-like level since that Bee is actually one of the strongest Jinchuriki literally just below Naruto's Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, actually Jinchuriki-like level is way lower than that it starts with something like 1 tailed Gaara or something like that and Kisame with his feats of surviving that much power him being equal to 6 or 7 tails V2 Naruto which Jinchuriki level too isn't far away considering the amount of boost each tail gives him, One-Shot is 7.5x multiplayer so the difference between Bee and Kisame is lower than that.
He blew his chest off

0471-013.png
still Jinchuriki Level, Bee isn't the Baseline you know.
Check message above

Where are these fake ass translations coming from?
0471-014.png

He doesn't say a single thing about Bee getting weaker.
Your arguments are based on fan translations.
Ok now
Wow, I must be ******** my pants right now or that what you think ???
alright, you got those two but there's like 6 or 7 more statements that I mentioned above.
but anyways I kinda bored right now so I will just add another one on top of them and I would be appreciated if you start with it cause its kinda spicy :D

dV6MVOt.png


"Kuro Zetsu states that Kaguya after absorbing the I.T chakra gained more power both her might and speed are now exponentially greater"

not only that vs battle wiki itself clearly states that in Kaguya's profile which makes it even funnier.

Attack Potency: Moon level+ (Stated to be more powerful than even the Sage of the Six Paths, overpowered Naruto's attacks, easily destroyed Sasuke's Susanoo), higher with Infinite Tsukuyomi (The Chakra absorbed from Infinite Tsukiyomi Increases her stats exponentially).

so not just this alone end this whole conversation in my favour but also it supports my argument even more since if taking I.T chakra increase your stats exponentially then releasing it's chakra makes you weaker with the same amount.

Edit:- I realised something the scan that you give is not the same that I talking about.
that's the scan you put in your "refutation" claiming its mine
0471-014.png


and that's the scan I used.

mzMaK7g.png


so not just your refutation got completely destroyed, you also were accusing me wrong all the time LOL.
 
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You sent a picture of him getting his chest blown off as justification for Bijuu like powers.

spongebobmeme.jpg
 
You sent a picture of him getting his chest blown off as justification for Bijuu like powers.

spongebobmeme.jpg
Oh My God, My whole comment with all its facts and statements got his knees down upon this Godly Refutation, ThE tHrEaD sHoUld GeT cLoSeD RiGHt NoW.

dude, you're clearly a troll right now, I will stop replying to you unless you came with a real refutation which I doubt you will ever come with.
 
nice, you will ignore everything else, but even in this point you still putting words in my mouths that I never said, first I was saying he's Jinchuriki level secondly why you still acting like 8 TAILS VERSION 2 KILLER BEE is base Jinchuriki power while he's actually Top Tier per minimum so I will just copy the same last comment so you will maybe try to read it.

"again if you didn't understand, Kisame was able to take a hit from 8 tails V2 Kisame and survive that automatically puts him at Jinchuriki-like level since that Bee is actually one of the strongest Jinchuriki literally just below Naruto's Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, actually Jinchuriki-like level is way lower than that it starts with something like 1 tailed Gaara or something like that and Kisame with his feats of surviving that much power, him being equal to 6 or 7 tails V2 Naruto which Jinchuriki level too isn't far away considering the amount of boost each tail gives him, One-Shot is 7.5x multiplayer so the difference between Bee and Kisame is lower than that." heck, even if Kisame is 4 tailed level he would still be Jinchuriki-Level.
 
It's in the rules though?

• This gap is strictly for versus debating purposes, and will not apply when attempting to derive the attack potency of a character based on a feat of one-shotting another character in his or her verse.
 
Which is what? That Madara when activating the Rinne-Sharingan gets a sudden boost in the amount of Chakra he has?

I agree with the idea that the number of Tomoe represent the amount of Chakra, what I don't agree with is the idea that activating Dojutsu increases your Chakra Pool.
 
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Which is that Madara when activating the Rinne-Sharingan gets a sudden boost in the amount of Chakra he has?

I agree with the idea that the number of Tomoe represent the amount of Chakra, what I don't agree with is the idea that activating Dojutsu increases your Chakra Pool.
I already refuted that point long ago in Post #74.
I said, "and anyways what that gonna do with my original point of Rinne-Sharingan Madara being equal to Kaguya due to his tomoe which is confirmed to refer to chakra level as seen in Gaiden, heck what Sharingan or Rinnegan gives chakra or not has to do with that even if Rinne Sharingan doesn't give him any chakra it still refers to his own chakra level" (which's still debatable as I previously showed you in Page 1 when we were debating in Sasuke vs Naruto shit) but anyways it doesn't matter, all what I want for my argument is the Rinne-Sharingan refers to his chakra level which you just agreed on.

Him receiving a boost or not only affect if Rinne-Sharingan Madara scale to Dual-Rinnegan Madara or not, but his scaling to Kaguya doesn't change even in the slightest.
 
https://***********.com/read-online/Naruto-chapter-679-page-8.html

In the bottom panel Sasuke states that Madara can't handle the amount of Chakra (IT Chakra) he's taking in.
 
https://***********.com/read-online/Naruto-chapter-679-page-8.html

In the bottom panel Sasuke states that Madara can't handle the amount of Chakra (IT Chakra) he's taking in.
dude, how much should I repeat my same ****** words, you all clearly started running out of cash.

in the thread itself, I said.

"and even tho by further thinking the chakra that Kaguya got is the chakra that Madara consumed just before it, Kaguya absorbed the Infinite Tsukuyomi chakra -that Madara just used- out of the tree -that Madara just summoned- and by basic logic and as Emilie du Châtelet said once before in his law of energy conservation "energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another" all what happens is just Madara released energy to the planet with his techniques and later Kaguya got it back while transforming from Madara and the reason that Madara become a balloon-like is because as mentioned by Sasuke is that he's absorbing a large amount of chakra in a short time which his body can't withstand this rate, he needs alot of time to recover this much chakra as same as Sasuke's when he loses his tomoes, for example you get around 2000 cal or 8360 kj per day thats around 8,360,000 joules which's more than enough to collapse your entire body if took in one shot but its totally ok to take it through 24 hours , it makes perfect sense now."

inB4:- you say she also got the shinobi alliance chakra on top of what Madara released, that's doesn't change anything seen as even KCM naruto having way more than all their chakra combined.

Also, that gives me an idea, if chakra doesn't boost your AP and the whole difference between Madara and Kaguya is nothing but chakra then that would still put her at Madara's level either way which further destroys the chakra claim.
 
"and even tho by further thinking the chakra that Kaguya got is the chakra that Madara consumed just before it, Kaguya absorbed the Infinite Tsukuyomi chakra -that Madara just used- out of the tree -that Madara
And pray tell when was it shown or stated that Madara absorbed Chakra after casting IT?

Whenever IT Chakra was shown to be absorbed there was a visual indicator

https://***********.com/read-online/Naruto-chapter-689-page-3.html
 
And pray tell when was it shown or stated that Madara absorbed Chakra after casting IT?

Whenever IT Chakra was shown to be absorbed there was a visual indicator

https://***********.com/read-online/Naruto-chapter-689-page-3.html
never said that Madara absorbed Chakra, lol this started becoming too boring.
I will try to make it easier for you to understand "the chakra that Kaguya got is the chakra that Madara consumed just before it, Kaguya absorbed the Infinite Tsukuyomi chakra -that Madara just used- out of the tree -that Madara just summoned- and by basic logic and as Emilie du Châtelet said once before in his law of energy conservation "energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another" all what happens is just Madara released energy to the planet with high-chakra consuming jutsus like the Infinite Tsukuyomi and God: Nativity of a World of Trees those techniques are the two sources that Kaguya got the chakra from while transforming from Madara"
 
nice, you will ignore everything else, but even in this point you still putting words in my mouths that I never said, first I was saying he's Jinchuriki level secondly why you still acting like 8 TAILS VERSION 2 KILLER BEE is base Jinchuriki power while he's actually Top Tier per minimum so I will just copy the same last comment so you will maybe try to read it.

"again if you didn't understand, Kisame was able to take a hit from 8 tails V2 Kisame and survive that automatically puts him at Jinchuriki-like level since that Bee is actually one of the strongest Jinchuriki literally just below Naruto's Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, actually Jinchuriki-like level is way lower than that it starts with something like 1 tailed Gaara or something like that and Kisame with his feats of surviving that much power, him being equal to 6 or 7 tails V2 Naruto which Jinchuriki level too isn't far away considering the amount of boost each tail gives him, One-Shot is 7.5x multiplayer so the difference between Bee and Kisame is lower than that." heck, even if Kisame is 4 tailed level he would still be Jinchuriki-Level.
Didn't Bee's full on Bijuu mode get bitched by V2 Jinchuriki?
 
SOSP Madara's Chakra is the culmination of Chakra from Hashirama, Ten-Tails, and part of the God Tree (which itself is the culmination of Chakra from various Kyuubi Cloaked Shinobi, Samurai, and Naruto himself when he was captured by its roots)

Kaguya's Chakra is all of the above plus the Chakra from all the people under IT
 
There is a lot of deflection in this thread.

Like, Base Naruto and Base Sasuke scaling talk at the end of Part 1 wasn’t concluded.

Did Naruto not get stronger from his amp during that fight, since Sasuke was dealing relatively the same damage on Amp Naruto with 3 Sharingan as 2 Sharingan against Base Naruto?
 
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