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Since Rinnesharingan Madara is featless and his key is built on statements that have somehow misinterpreted wrong which I am myself always misinterpreted like any others but while I was debating earlier that day I realised something that probably changes your entire view on Madara's Scale.

First of all, we know that If Sasuke overuses the power of his Rinnegan, his ocular power will temporarily diminish, causing the tomoe in his Rinnegan to vanish until his full power returns.

as seen here Sasuke comes out of a portal using his Rinnegan, which causes his eye to go into cooldown and lose the tomoe temporarily later he gets those tomoes back after recovering his chakra back:-

VemA4Xg.jpg


Now into the main point...

Madara after activating the Rinne Sharingan he got 9 tomoes as seen here:-

mTpZRHI.jpg


and here:-

EstrEpf.jpg


Later he used a high-chakra consuming jutsus like the Infinite Tsukuyomi and God: Nativity of a World of Trees those techniques heavily drain Madara's chakra however after Madara landing we saw that he only has 6 tomoes left as seen here:-

tTk3MsY.jpg


that particular weakend Madara is the only one Naruto and Sasuke saw which implies that their statements about Rinne Sharingan Madara only applies to 6T Madara's not 9T Madara since they never saw him in the first place.
and those statements are :-

1) Kaguya is a league above Rinnesharingan Madara

main-qimg-431cd24f1beb10a0728f7f5ee1cdd5c3


2) Kaguya is a juubi amp stronger than Rinnesharingan Madara.

1gCxTKq.jpg


but in fact, it just means she's only stronger than 6T Madara (not saying that she's weaker than 9T but the statement only talks about 6T)

so I came up with two methods to get the values of how strong Rinne Sharingan Madara really is?

  • MATHS METHOD

so I tried my best trying to quantify the tomoe's boost and I figured that its 1.5x per minimum simply by dividing 9 by 6 (i know its assumption but a 1.5 boost seems responsible and makes sense to me)

now back to when Madara got the juubi I will assume he's at least juubi level at that time which makes a juubi amp 2x his powers later he got a God Tree amp, Double Rinnegan amp and 6T Rinnesharingan amp, if all those amps combined boosts Madara only 1.3x his powers (which's kinda ridiculous), that would make 6T to 9T amp enough to boosts his level to Kaguya's, that if you only assumed that all the boosts he got are only 1.3x which both me and you know that this argument can be made or even way higher which will make 9T Madara somehow stronger than Kaguya herself.

In Conclusion:-

Kaguya >= 6T Madara + Juubi

One Eyed Pre-Shinju Madara >= Juubi
Therefore Juubi amp is 2x this Madara

If God Tree amp, Double Rinnegan amp and 6T Rinnesharingan amp is 1.3x this Madara
Juubi amp would be 1.5x 6T Madara
and since 9T > 6T by at least 1.5x by using basic maths.
that would be enough for 9T Madara to be Kaguya Level

and that's probably a huge downplay to Madara's Favor but I'm just trying to downplay as possible so we can get the very minimum of Madara's Strength.

  • BASIC LOGIC METHOD

You know what forget all what I said about that math assumption shit, who like maths anyways ??

let's get straight to the feats and only feats no assumption no bullshit.

so as I proved above, Madara had only 6 tomoes when he lands later when Black Zetsu stabs him we can see that he still got 6 tomoes as seen here:-

DoG0Nap.jpg


going on we can see Madara here still got 6 tomoes even after absorbing a tremendous amount of chakra as Sasuke stated:-

AlUVL8x.jpg


and at the very least time we saw Madara just right before he turns into Kaguya we saw that he got his 9 tomoes back:-

bpi6UHb.jpg


the next time we saw Madara he already turned into Kaguya and we clearly see that she just got 9 tomoes worth of chakra:-

7MG13vq.jpg


which implies that at very least Madara >= Kaguya if not way higher since Kaguya only have the baseline 9T level while Madara's level is unknown but he's also 9T level.

basically, if you didn't understand all what I said, the only situation the tomoes decrease in is when the user uses too much chakra but using normal amounts would do nothing and since Kaguya is only baseline 9T level (she just turned from 6T at the very end of transformation) while Madara's level is unknown but he's 9T level that actually put him per minimum at Kaguya level and you can even assume that he's much much stronger.

and even tho by further thinking the chakra that Kaguya got is the chakra that Madara consumed just before it, Kaguya absorbed the Infinite Tsukuyomi chakra -that Madara just used- out of the tree -that Madara just summoned- and by basic logic and as Emilie du Châtelet said once before in his law of energy conservation "energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another" all what happens is just Madara released energy to the planet with his techniques and later Kaguya got it back while transforming from Madara and the reason that Madara become a balloon-like is because as mentioned by Sasuke is that he's absorbing a large amount of chakra in a short time which his body can't withstand this rate, he needs alot of time to recover this much chakra as same as Sasuke's when he loses his tomoes, for example you use around 2000 cal or 8360 kj per day thats around 8,360,000 joules which's more than enough to collapse your entire body if took in one shot , it makes perfect sense now.

Look even if you disagree with all what I said for whatever reason, and Madara didn't receive any upgrades, at the very least you learned something new as same as myself tho I was reading this chapter again and again throughout all those years and I realised that just now.
 
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You've put a lot of effort into this when it's a lot more likely this is just an art error.
that's what I thought it to be, but an error is one or two, but it was like only after Madara's landing at it stayed like that until the last of his transformation to Kaguya, it makes perfect sense to me unless you can argue otherwise which I would be appreciated if you do so.
 
Naruto says "it's even stronger than the juubi"
0679-003.png


In the context of the full scan, they're saying that the person they're staring at is more than the Juubi's.
I don't see "she's a juubi amp above"
 
Naruto says "it's even stronger than the juubi"
0679-003.png


In the context of the full scan, they're saying that the person they're staring at is more than the Juubi's.
I don't see "she's a juubi amp above"
ahhh..
actually it was like
Sakura: where this chakra from???
Sasuke replying to Sakura: it's from the dudes in Infinite Tsukuyomi
Naruto replying to Sasuke: It's greater than juubi's chakra

that's the context and even your point change nothing but adding to Madara's favour.
 
This doesn't belong in Content Revision board, I get the point but it's pretty much headcanon based on assumptions entirely.
 
This doesn't belong in Content Revision board, I get the point but it's pretty much headcanon based on assumptions entirely.
there are no assumptions here, we knew that tomoes in the rinngean refers to chakra level, and we know for a matter of the fact that Madara used a tremendous amount of chakra, which leads to his tomoes to decrease, wheres the headcanon here it's just A+B=C logic.
 
English : bring up my post

Arabic : احضر لاعلي منشوري

Dutch : breng mijn post naar voren

French : faire monter mon message

German : Bring mir meine Post hoch

Italian : apri il mio post

Japanese : 私の投稿を表示します

Russian : поднять мой пост

Spanish : trae mi publicación

Bulgarian : повдигнете моя пост

Chinese Traditional : 顯示我的帖子

Danish : bringe mit indlæg op

Estonian : tooge mu postitus üles

Hebrew : להעלות את ההודעה שלי

Lithuanian : pareikšti mano įrašą

Marathi : माझे पोस्ट वर आणा

Portuguese : traga minha postagem

Serbian : изнесите мој пост

Tamil : எனது இடுகையை கொண்டு வாருங்கள்

Turkish : Mesajımı getir

Vietnamese : Đưa lên bài của tôi

Ukrainian : виховувати мій пост

Telugu : నా పోస్ట్ తీసుకురండి

Swedish : ta upp mitt inlägg

Slovak : vychovať môj príspevok

Romanian : adu-mi postarea

Norwegian : ta opp innlegget mitt

Malay : bawa jawatan saya

Korean : 내 게시물 불러

Indonesian : buka kiriman saya

Filipino : ilabas ang aking post

Croatian : iznijeti moj post

Catalan : publica el meu missatge

Bengali : আমার পোস্ট আনুন

Chinese Simplified : 显示我的帖子

Czech : vychovávejte můj příspěvek

Esperanto : aperigu mian afiŝon

Finnish : tuo esiin postini

Greek : εμφανίστε τη θέση μου

Latvian : audzini manu amatu

Malayalam : എന്റെ പോസ്റ്റ് കൊണ്ടുവരിക

Polish : wywołać mój post

Slovenian : povej mi objavo

Tajik : постамро биёред

Thai : เปิดโพสต์ของฉัน

Urdu : میری پوسٹ لائیں
 
I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish with this thread?

Do you wan't Madara to scale to Kaguya?
 
I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish with this thread?

Do you wan't Madara to scale to Kaguya?
Well, he should get upgraded to be like "at least comparable to Kaguya" or something like that, in case if no one was able to refute to my arguments, I'm open-minded and I would be more than appreciated if someone did so especially that there's likely 400 views and no one until now came with a counter.
 
Well, he should get upgraded to be like "at least comparable to Kaguya" or something like that, in case if no one was able to refute to my arguments, I'm open-minded and I would be more than appreciated if someone did so especially that there's likely 400 views and no one until now came with a counter.
The problem is, there aren't any feats which support your theory.

So at best, you might be able to argue "possibly comparable to Kaguya", but if I'm being honest, it doesn't seem worth the time.
 
The problem is, there aren't any feats which support your theory.

So at best, you might be able to argue "possibly comparable to Kaguya", but if I'm being honest, it doesn't seem worth the time.
but the problem here is that according to my argument he actually per minimum Kaguya level and could be scaled even higher, he is mostly featless i know, but my scale is better than the current scaling of him to be equal to One-Eyed Shinju Madara, let alone that the only feat he has put him at the very least at Kaguya level if not higher, and we don't have any keys for him anyway, so he should get a new key with "at least comparable to Kaguya, possibly higher".
 
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I don't think there is enough support or evidence for this to pass.
 
I don't think there is enough support or evidence for this to pass.
well, there's no evidence to scale him to One-Eyed Madara either, I understand he's featless so we cant determine his strength correctly, but due to the fact that the only statements and feats he has put his level to Kaguya's if not higher, I see nothing wrong in that, which's again better than the absolute assumption of him being equal to One-Eyed Madara.
 
well, there's no evidence to scale him to One-Eyed Madara either

Who to scale to One-Eyed Madara? Two-Eyed Madara? I'm pretty sure the logic there is that Two-Eyed Madara would not be any weaker than One-Eyed Madara, so logically he should be at least as strong as him.
 
Who to scale to One-Eyed Madara? Two-Eyed Madara? I'm pretty sure the logic there is that Two-Eyed Madara would not be any weaker than One-Eyed Madara, so logically he should be at least as strong as him.
At least Multi-Continent level (Should be far stronger than Obito Uchiha as the Juubi Jinchuuriki), likely far higher (Was stated to be trying to get close to Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki's power) | Moon level+ (Faced off against Naruto with Six Paths chakra. His Limbo could fight on par with Naruto's shadow clones. At least comparable to Sasuke and Naruto.)

Key: Six Paths Sage Madara | Six Paths Sage Madara (Rinne-Sharingan)

his profile scale from One-Eyed Shinju Madara to Rinnesharingan Madara in the same key (Moon Level+)
and One-Eyed Pre-Shinju Madara in the other key (Multi-Continental)
 
It could be Kishimoto being Kishimoto. He made some mistakes with tomoes throughout the later parts of this arc.
Sasuke awakens the Rinnegan, the pattern implies only 6 tomoe.
QzUuCaC.png

One panel later, Sasuke has 5 tomoe on the lower half of his eye, implying 8 to 9 in total.
cGNcEaW.png
 
It could be Kishimoto being Kishimoto. He made some mistakes with tomoes throughout the later parts of this arc.
Sasuke awakens the Rinnegan, the pattern implies only 6 tomoe.
QzUuCaC.png

One panel later, Sasuke has 5 tomoe on the lower half of his eye, implying 8 to 9 in total.
cGNcEaW.png
I have no problem in art error, in fact, it even happened to Kaguya, but the problem is that it could happen one or two times at maximum which's not the case for Madara since it was six tomoes from his landing until the last moment when he got his nine tomoes back also it makes sense with the explanation I made in the last of the thread, I mean just because one art error and it doesn't even refute to my argument especially that Sasuke's eye was consistent throughout the whole fight except this particular panal which anyways doesn't prove he has more than six just an art error in tomoes place.

on top of that it still way better than the absurd scale of him being equal to One-Eyed Madara.
 
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Since the thread got more than 500+ views and there isn't any strong refutation to my argument until now, I do not want to anticipate events but I would like to mention the possible upgrades to Madara's profile if this thread got accepted.

Attack Potency: At least Multi-Continent level (Should be far stronger than Obito Uchiha as the Juubi Jinchuuriki), likely far higher (Was stated to be trying to get close to Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki's power) | Moon level+ (Faced off against Naruto with Six Paths chakra. His Limbo could fight on par with Naruto's shadow clones. At least comparable to Sasuke and Naruto.) | Moon level+, likely higher (Far stronger than before, should be comparable to Kaguya Ōtsutsuki after attaining the Rinne-Sharingan)

Key: Six Paths Sage Madara | Six Paths Sage Madara (Dual Rinnegan) | Six Paths Sage Madara (Rinne-Sharingan)

It should also affect his other stats like Speed, Durability, etc...

I know it's not perfect, if anyone disagrees with it please leave a comment.
 
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I think that there is no way to prove that Madara losing tomoes was intentional on Kishimotos part unless you ask him personaly.
this a poor counter to be fair, Kishimoto himself made tomoes refer to chakra level in Gaiden which was released on April 27, 2015, while the chapter is released on June 23, 2014, that's only 10 months from the first time we know that tomoes refer to chakra level saying that Kishimoto already knew that is not that ridiculous especially it's not that long time to begin with it's just again 10 months and anyways it's still 1000 better than scaling him to One-Eyed Madara.

Also, we already know that Madara used a ton of chakra and with the explanation, I made in the end, I see nothing wrong with the argument I made it make perfect sense.
 
It makes sense when you put it this way but it could also be an art inconsistency. Either way, I agree that Dual Rinnegan Juudara should get a key similar to how you put it in Post 30 with him being at least stronger than when he was 1 eyed but scaling him to Kaguya is just not right. Sasuke's statement debunks that notion
 
It makes sense when you put it this way but it could also be an art inconsistency. Either way, I agree that Dual Rinnegan Juudara should get a key similar to how you put it in Post 30 with him being at least stronger than when he was 1 eyed but scaling him to Kaguya is just not right. Sasuke's statement debunks that notion
First of all, I'm talking about Triple Rinnegan Madara, not Dual Rinnegan furthermore Sasuke statement only talks about 6 tomoes Madara, not 9 tomoes since he never saw him in the first place, so basically does DR Madara scale to Kaguya ?? absolutely not but does Rinne Sharingan scale to her ?? Yes.
 
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