Kakashi and Sasuke's speed "Higher with Chidori" / "Higher with Raikiri" Removal

[Testarossa002]

I've watched the animated fight, and I don't see how it is a speed boost. Everybody was keeping up with that dude in speed and have tagged him.

I can understand this point of view if you only read the manga.
But I'm quite baffled at you saying you're not seeing a speed increase even after watching the anime

 

[Unwanted]

I can understand this point of view if you only read the manga.
But I'm quite baffled at you saying you're not seeing a speed increase even after watching the anime

What's really baffling is how all of you are ganging up together to defend something that has no clear statement or feat behind it, and how that got a pass with nobody questioning it, and the strongest proof you came up with is in a sequel after decades of Chidori's introduction.
I really don't understand how any of you thinks.
Sarada just accelerated after her move was ready, she wasn't moving at top speed before.
A character can decide to accelerate faster when attacking

Okay gaara can counter it so? like Sasuke wasn't gonna run in a straight line from a far away distance . That's good enough distance and knowing the direction to be able to easily counter and it helps the more that the person coming has tunnel vision.
See you understand what I'm saying but at the same time you don't which is confusing to me.
And yes it doesn't mean they can't use 100% speed in other situations but they specifically do not 99% of the time coz it narrows their vision which is something that should definitely not happen to you as a shinobi as you must be aware of your surroundings.
The crux of the matter is kakashi is sub rel in combat speed without using 100% speed and when using chidori he draws out his 100% speed hence higher than sub rel.
If you want the justification changed from "higher with chidori" to "higher while using chidori" or "higher while using chidori as he draws out his max speed which is higher than his normal combat speed" That's fine. But that's the highest that can be done.

Should just be higher with Sharingan. They can safely move at max speed at the opponent only while the Sharingan is activated. That makes way more sense.

 

[Testarossa002]

I really don't understand how any of you thinks.
Sarada just accelerated after her move was ready, she wasn't moving at top speed before.

So there was indeed a speed increase
Noted

 

[ZawierJ]

I don't read Boruto tbh, but from I understand Chidori is the strongest attack she got and she can get him with it before he can weave a sign. Again this doesn't say it boosts her speed, she just ran at him using her full-speed.

She runs at full speed, but after using Chidori, we can see that his speed increases noticeably. We also see statments such as "She is very fast" and "faster than before" being used for her.

 

[Unwanted]

So there was indeed a speed increase
Noted

Yep, she wasn't moving at top speed before just like here

She runs at full speed, but after using Chidori, we can see that his speed increases noticeably. We also see statments such as "She is very fast" and "faster than before" being used for her.

Where is "faster than before"?

I'll add this then people can call the mods and make a decision
The reason why Rikudo Chidori failed to wound Madara...

But Chidori spear sliced him

And even Sasuke's base sword pierced him, isn't that those attacks are stronger than Chidori (Chidori is stated to be stronger than Chidori Spear in the databook), but that Chidori as well as all piercing attacks in Naruto, gets stronger when the user moves faster. Sasuke was moving faster when he split Madara with Chidori Spear, he was moving slower when he used Rikudo Chidori (he didn't have space to run fast). Madara was trying to blitz Sasuke when he was pierced by his sword. That's why Chidori failed while the others worked.

Kakashi had to train Sasuke's speed in order to deal more damage with Chidori against Gaara. And Sasuke had to move back as much as possible in order to run as fast as possible to deal the most damage to him

ignore the highlighted parts

Ay and Bee's Lariat work in a similar manner. A linear full-speed attack to deal the most damage.

Chidori doesn't boost its user's speed, the user's speed boosts Chidori. The slower they move, the weaker it becomes and vice versa.
So "higher with Chidori / higher with Raikiri" is blatant misinterpretation and misleading.
The speed the move at using Chidori can be used using any attack not just Chidori as long as the Sharingan is activated.
It should just be "higher with the Sharingan". "Higher with Chidori and Raikiri" should be removed.
I also suggest removing "higher with CS1 and CS2" from the speed category, because there's no evidence that the Curse Mark boosts speed either.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You should pay more attention to feats
Hebi Sasuke's versatility, durability, hax, experience as well as speed scaling > SM Naruto's. And Kirin > RS.
I can argue that had Sasuke used Kirin on the Kage Summit, had he not needed Danzo alive, nobody in the summit would have survived, thus Hebi Sasuke > Kage Level (the level which SM Naruto is at in my opinion). He is also much harder to kill than Naruto thanks to Orochimaru's replacement technique also he has the underrated ability of flight to stay out of his opponents range. And peak MS Sasuke > Hebi Sasuke.
I can give you other reasons why I think MS Sasuke is stronger than SM Naruto if you want.
War arc SM Naruto might have a good chance against Hebi though

WA SM Naruto vs early EMS Sasuke is a better fight than WA SM Naruto vs Hebi Sasuke. One's a Pain slayer and one's a Deidara rival

 

[ZawierJ]

Where is "faster than before"?

Unfortunately I couldn't find that scene, it was probably a small mistake, I might have read it wrong. But that won't change the outcome. In the anime, we see that characters using Chidori progress faster both visually and with expressions after activating Chidori. Since this is not a multiplier, only expressions such as "very fast", "faster" can be evidence that Chidori gives the user a certain amount of speed.

First of all, Sarada says that making a surprise attack on him in this scene will not work because he will notice it. He then uses Chidori, saying that he needs to move faster than the weaving marks to pierce it. Here Chidori gives her speed because he can move faster than the opponent. If Chidori didn't give him speed, she could blitz with her normal run without needing to use chidori. In fact, I think that Otsutsuki's superiority over the Genin characters throughout the battle can be supported by the fact that Sarada can easily attack him after activating the chidori. He also says, "She is too fast." As I said, this can be a supporting argument.

She runs at full speed, but after using Chidori, we can see that his speed increases noticeably. We also see statments such as "She is very fast" and "faster than before" being used for her.

Secondly, after the chidori is activated, we can see that its speed increases visually in the anime. I sent the video in this message.

Third, when Minato Kakashi finds the chidori, he tells him: "It certainly has speed and destructive power." He also states, "It makes you move too fast." In other words, it allows it to move faster than normal. Once again, since this is not a multiplier, I think these explanations will be sufficient since we are talking about a small speed increase. Since it does not provide an extreme speed increase, I think it will not make any sense whether you remove it from the profile or not.

 

[Unwanted]

Unfortunately I couldn't find that scene, it was probably a small mistake, I might have read it wrong. But that won't change the outcome. In the anime, we see that characters using Chidori progress faster both visually and with expressions after activating Chidori. Since this is not a multiplier, only expressions such as "very fast", "faster" can be evidence that Chidori gives the user a certain amount of speed.

First of all, Sarada says that making a surprise attack on him in this scene will not work because he will notice it. He then uses Chidori, saying that he needs to move faster than the weaving marks to pierce it. Here Chidori gives her speed because he can move faster than the opponent. If Chidori didn't give him speed, she could blitz with her normal run without needing to use chidori. In fact, I think that Otsutsuki's superiority over the Genin characters throughout the battle can be supported by the fact that Sarada can easily attack him after activating the chidori. He also says, "She is too fast." As I said, this can be a supporting argument.

Secondly, after the chidori is activated, we can see that its speed increases visually in the anime. I sent the video in this message.

Third, when Minato Kakashi finds the chidori, he tells him: "It certainly has speed and destructive power." He also states, "It makes you move too fast." In other words, it allows it to move faster than normal. Once again, since this is not a multiplier, I think these explanations will be sufficient since we are talking about a small speed increase. Since it does not provide an extreme speed increase, I think it will not make any sense whether you remove it from the profile or not.

Chidori is explained in the databook
Ignore the highlighted parts

 

[ZawierJ]

Chidori is explained in the databook
Ignore the highlighted parts

When I examined the scan you sent, "BY ACTIVATING THE BODY, A GREATAMOUNT OF CHAKRA IS BROUGHTFORTH AND CONCENTRATED INTOONE ARM. FURTHERMORE, BYRUNNING A LONG DISTANCE, THISTURNS INTO A HIGH-SPEED STABOF DESTRUCTIVE POWER!! THEMOVEMENT IS A MERE STAB, BUTTHIS GREAT TECHNIQUE BOASTSSUCH LARGE POWER THAT IT WASABLE TO OPEN A HOLE IN GAARA'SSAND DEFENCE." I see that statment. Here I understand that he collects his chakra on one shoulder and activates his body, turning this chakra into high speed and destructive power.

 

[Unwanted]

When I examined the scan you sent, "BY ACTIVATING THE BODY, A GREATAMOUNT OF CHAKRA IS BROUGHTFORTH AND CONCENTRATED INTOONE ARM. FURTHERMORE, BYRUNNING A LONG DISTANCE, THISTURNS INTO A HIGH-SPEED STABOF DESTRUCTIVE POWER!! THEMOVEMENT IS A MERE STAB, BUTTHIS GREAT TECHNIQUE BOASTSSUCH LARGE POWER THAT IT WASABLE TO OPEN A HOLE IN GAARA'SSAND DEFENCE." I see that statment. Here I understand that he collects his chakra on one shoulder and activates his body, turning this chakra into high speed and destructive power.

You're misinterpreting the scan. He adds his running speed to his stabbing speed to add to its power
anyway who are the mods that make decisions on Naruto related stuff?

 

[Duedate8898]

Looking over the thread, I disagree with the thread's OP

 

[Unwanted]

Looking over the thread, I disagree with the thread's OP

Why?

 

[ZawierJ]

You're misinterpreting the scan. He adds his running speed to his stabbing speed to add to its power
anyway who are the mods that make decisions on Naruto related stuff?

Nope, it says it turns into a high speed so that means chakra turns into speed. No one agree with you on this topic including staffs. I saw two staff members disagree with the op.

 

[Duedate8898]

Why?

Because i find your OP unconvincing.

 

[Unwanted]

Because i find your OP unconvincing.

W h y ?

 

[Unwanted]

Nope, it says it turns into a high speed so that means chakra turns into speed. No one agree with you on this topic including staffs. I saw two staff members disagree with the op.

Not because I'm wrong. Because people insist on this headcanon.

 

[Duedate8898]

Because it only relies on using early naruto statements when we're given even more statements on Chidori throughout the series which support the users being faster when utilizing the technique then when not.

Simple as that

 

[Unwanted]

Because it only relies on using early naruto statements when we're given even more statements on Chidori throughout the series which support the users being faster when utilizing the technique then when not.

Simple as that

What statements? Elaborate
The user that came up with that was mostly using chapters from part 1 and I used examples from the 10-tails fight on why Chidori prefers full speed to deal more damage.

 

[Duedate8898]

I'm not about to argue with you, because you clearly won't be satisfied with whatever i have to say. So I'm not going to.

@CaoticRap and @MinatoSparkle said more than enough for me to disagree with your OP.

I will not be responding further

 

[Unwanted]

I'm not about to argue with you, because you clearly won't be satisfied with whatever i have to say. So I'm not going to.

@CaoticRap and @MinatoSparkle said more than enough for me to disagree with your OP.

I will not be responding further

I'm not statisfied because I don't find any statement or feat to support what you're saying. Only misinterpretation.
Ay and Bee's Lariat work in a similar way to Chidori, running at fast speed in a linear way to deal as much damage as possible. The attack itself isn't a speed boost, but it relies on their speed to deal more damage. Lariat which can be used in base without chakra at all.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

How is body slamming equivalent at all to an attack that's specifically stated to make you move so fast you get tunnel vision?

 

[Unwanted]

Because it is performed by rushing at full speed from a distance and has linear movement, just like Chidori.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Yep, she wasn't moving at top speed before just like here

This kinda just means Sasuke decided to speed up. I don't think that translates to Sarada was purposefully lowering her speed until she used the jutsu given these to examples aren't connected.

 

[Unwanted]

This kinda just means Sasuke decided to speed up. I don't think that translates to Sarada was purposefully lowering her speed until she used the jutsu given these to examples aren't connected.

Sarada didn't rush at Boro using her top speed until her attack was ready. That's all.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Sarada didn't rush at Boro using her top speed until her attack was ready. That's all.

Your proof? From just her comments alone it seems the move was the only thing fast enough.

 

[Unwanted]

Your proof? From just her comments alone it seems the move was the only thing fast enough.

Her other attacks scale to her running speed?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Her other attacks scale to her running speed?

I'm sorry, what? I'm not sure the point your trying to make with this. I'm only talking about the jutsu buffing speed.

 

[Unwanted]

I'm sorry, what? I'm not sure the point your trying to make with this. I'm only talking about the jutsu buffing speed.

Fireball jutsu and her other techniques are thrown at the opponent if I remember correctly. They don't necessarily move at her speed.
Chidori scales to her running speed and strong enough to deal damage.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The question is why can't Sarada blitz Boro in moments when she's not using Chidori

 

[Unwanted]

The question is why can't Sarada blitz Boro in moments when she's not using Chidori

She doesn't have the power to deal damage.
Also, she didn't blitz. Her teammates distracted him.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

She doesn't have the power to deal damage.
Also, she didn't blitz. Her teammates distracted him.

I mean prior in the fight when they were just trying to take him down regularly

She literally said the jutsu is faster than the speed he can weave signs, so yes it's a speed blitz

 

[ssgengar]

Yep. The only attack that can do that simultaneously while being strong enough to penetrate him.
I've watched the animated fight, and I don't see how it is a speed boost. Everybody was keeping up with that dude in speed and have tagged him.

She specified that it was the only attack fast enough to do so

And if it’s the only attack fast enough, then it’s faster than anything else she can dish out. It’s that simple

 

[Unwanted]

She specified that it was the only attack fast enough to do so

And if it’s the only attack fast enough, then it’s faster than anything else she can dish out. It’s that simple

It's her fastest Jutsu. Most of her jutsus are thrown at the opponent and don't scale to her running speed.

 

[karo_senpaii]

It's her fastest Jutsu. Most of her jutsus are thrown at the opponent and don't scale to her running speed.

You're actually making claims that sarada jutsu arsenal is slower than her meanwhile same jutsu tag people that are on par with sarada speed.

Wow

 

[Damage3245]

Whether the technique actually speeds the user up, or if the user uses a level of speed they wouldn't normally otherwise, the result seems to be that the characters should be marked as "higher with Chidori/Raikiri" either way.

 

[Unwanted]

You're actually making claims that sarada jutsu arsenal is slower than her meanwhile same jutsu tag people that are on par with sarada speed.

Wow

I don't know what you're saying, but probably everyone has a jutsu in their arsenal that is faster than the other ones. Jutsus vary in speed

Whether the technique actually speeds the user up, or if the user uses a level of speed they wouldn't normally otherwise, the result seems to be that the characters should be marked as "higher with Chidori/Raikiri" either way.

I've responded to this argument several times now. It should just be higher with the Sharingan. The Sharingan is the reason they can rush at full speed directly toward an opponent while others can't.

 

[ssgengar]

It's her fastest Jutsu. Most of her jutsus are thrown at the opponent and don't scale to her running speed.

It’s her fastest attack, not just jutsu

 

[Unwanted]

It’s her fastest attack, not just jutsu

It's her fastest jutsu. She was looking through her jutsu arsenal
Anyway, the matter is not worth this entire discussion. Chidori isn't recognized as a speed boost by the majority of people who have seen the show outside of here, and I've never seen anyone use this as an argument that would make a difference in a fight because it can't be used. This can continue as one of many other inaccuracies I've noticed in many pages on the site due to lack of knowledge from the members on the context and misinterpreting scans.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It's her fastest jutsu. She was looking through her jutsu arsenal
Anyway, the matter is not worth this entire discussion. Chidori isn't recognized as a speed boost by the majority of people who have seen the show outside of here, and I've never seen anyone use this as an argument that would make a difference in a fight because it can't be used. This can continue as one of many other inaccuracies I've noticed in many pages on the site due to lack of knowledge from the members on the context and misinterpreting scans.

It's recognized as a speed boost by a lotta ppl I've seen not on VSBW. Also appeal to popularity.

 

[ssgengar]

It's her fastest jutsu. She was looking through her jutsu arsenal

She said attack, not jutsu lol

Anyway, the matter is not worth this entire discussion. Chidori isn't recognized as a speed boost by the majority of people who have seen the show outside of here, and I've never seen anyone use this as an argument that would make a difference in a fight because it can't be used. This can continue as one of many other inaccuracies I've noticed in many pages on the site due to lack of knowledge from the members on the context and misinterpreting scans.

Cope