Nine is better than Six -Madara Uchiha, probably.

[M3X_2.0]

Do that Damage

 

[KingTempest]

That limbo example was so bad.

You know that they got hit with an invisible force while off guard right?

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

That limbo example was so bad.

I was just mentioning the double standards of his statement of "Send people flying definitely apply superiority" and also saying that limbo are weaker than Naruto and Sasuke (I'm not saying they are stronger I'm saying that it's not enough proof to apply superiority since limbo did send them flying away but it wasn't the case for strength, it is? )

heck, he even said that "they are nowhere near Naruto or Sasuke even sending them flying away." when they actually did send them flying away.

You know that they got hit with an invisible force while off guard right?

Yes, but that's for the first time only the second time they already knew about the limbo yet they still got sent flying away as seen here.

 

[KingTempest]

There is a difference between getting sent flying and getting sent moving through the air, especially while they're in the air.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

There is a difference between getting sent flying and getting sent moving through the air, especially while they're in the air.

Madara and Naruto were both in the air, you know.

 

[KingTempest]

Madara at that point knew how to consciously float.

If you punch somebody off the ground, then that shows superiority.

If you punch somebody in mid air, that doesn't mean anything.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Madara at that point knew how to consciously float.

If you punch somebody off the ground, then that shows superiority.

If you punch somebody in mid air, that doesn't mean anything.

this is off-topic but since when being in midair cancel kinetic energy, and anyways Madara already did it twice once in the air and the other on the ground.

and yeah leave me alone cause I want to fap to my fav hentai right now so unless you come with a refutation to the main point don't mention me, Thanks.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bruh, TMI.

 

[BlackeJan]

and yeah leave me alone cause I want to fap to my fav hentai right now so unless you come with a refutation to the main point don't mention me, Thanks.

W-what

 

[Metalija]

and yeah leave me alone cause I want to fap to my fav hentai right now so unless you come with a refutation to the main point don't mention me, Thanks.

We didn't really have to know this, but thanks for sharing lol.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

The Depression is Real.
anyways I want to share some of my pharaonic treasures with you guys but it's obviously banned to do so.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

So, I got this further proofs to my point, I don't think myself it makes a dramatical change but it sure supports my argument even more.

in Jin no Sho, page 63, we see this:-

in a description referring to 9 tomoes Rinne Sharingan Madara, it says "ALL CHAKRA RETURNS TO MADARA'S OWN HANDS", the word "all chakra" here refers to Kaguya's level of chakra since she had you know all chakra as she was the origin of chakra, after all, that was stated numerous times through the manga.

Another thing, we can see Madara once again with 6 tomoes in Jin no Sho which was released way after the chapter, Yet once again we saw the 6 tomoes Madara again which I think further debunk the art error refutation since there's no point for this to happen again, if Kishi didn't want for this to happen he would have fixed it in its release and he wasn't even in hurry like normal chapter which he had just a week to draw the whole chapter.

Also, this gives me an idea to further improve his key update that I did in post #30:-

Attack Potency: Moon level+, likely higher (Far stronger than before, should be comparable to Kaguya Ōtsutsuki after attaining the Rinne-Sharingan, was stated to has all chakra on his own hands)

 

[Damage3245]

in a description referring to 9 tomoes Rinne Sharingan Madara, it says "ALL CHAKRA RETURNS TO MADARA'S OWN HANDS", the word "all chakra" here refers to Kaguya's level of chakra since she had you know all chakra as she was the origin of chakra, after all, that was stated numerous times through the manga.

That's not the case though as "all chakra" evidently wasn't in Madara's hands at that point.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

That's not the case though as "all chakra" evidently wasn't in Madara's hands at that point.

neither Revived Kaguya had all chakra, the point here is not that Madara has all chakra as much as that "all chakra" refers to Kaguya since even when revived she called herself as "all chakra belongs to me" and "I'm the origin of all chakra" also in Jin no Sho resurrected Kaguya was stated numerous times to be so, Yet she messed Naruto, Sasuke, Kakashi and Obito's chakra, also further proof that Hagoromo stated that One-Eyed Pre Shinju Madara was trying to approach Kaguya's power and now ask yourself what Madara was trying to do and did he did it or not? the answer is simple he was trying to activate the Rinne-Sharingan and he did activate it which implies he did approach her power since he did what he was trying to do, furthermore, Hagoromo stated that Kaguya got her powers from eating the Shinju fruit and Jin no Sho stated that Kaguya awakened her Rinnesharingan by eating the Shinju fruit , Madara got both the Shinju and the Rinnesharingan the two sources of Kaguya's power.

But yeah you got a point here, so the key would be like :-
Attack Potency: Moon level+, likely higher (Far stronger than before, should be comparable to Kaguya Ōtsutsuki after attaining the Rinne-Sharingan, as he approaching her powers, it was stated that all chakra returns to his own hands)

 

[Metalija]

Your entire premise of "Madara has all of Kaguyas chakra" is debunked by Sasuke

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Your entire premise of "Madara has all of Kaguyas chakra" is debunked by Sasuke

My God, did you even read the fukin thread? what was I'm saying in the past 100 comment my ass ??
Anyways I will just copy and paste from the thread itself since I won't waste my time on this shit.

Madara after activating the Rinne Sharingan he got 9 tomoes as seen here:-

and here:-

Later he used a high-chakra consuming jutsus like the Infinite Tsukuyomi and God: Nativity of a World of Trees those techniques heavily drain Madara's chakra however after Madara landing we saw that he only has 6 tomoes left as seen here:-

that particular weakend Madara is the only one Naruto and Sasuke saw which implies that their statements about Rinne Sharingan Madara only applies to 6T Madara's not 9T Madara since they never saw him in the first place.

and those statements are :-

1) Kaguya is a league above Rinnesharingan Madara

2) Kaguya is a juubi amp stronger than Rinnesharingan Madara.

but in fact, it just means she's only stronger than 6T Madara not 9T.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

lol at @XSOULOFCINDERX and @KingTempest liking his self debunking post, I just started thinking did you guys really read my thread? and I'm serious here.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You can be less of a dick about it, that's for sure....

 

[Metalija]

Whats debunked? That Kaguya has more chakra than Madara? Naruto and Sasuke never comment on Madara supposedly losing a ton of chakra after using the IT. And even if he did, chakra levels don't determine AP. Just because his Rinnesharingan has 6 tomoe now doesn't mean that he is physically less powerful. And thats assuming that the 6 tomoe thing isn't an art error.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

You can be less of a dick about it, that's for sure....

and now I'm a dick? dude wtf, what did I do?

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Whats debunked? That Kaguya has more chakra than Madara? Naruto and Sasuke never comment on Madara supposedly losing a ton of chakra after using the IT. And even then, chakra levels don't determine AP. Just because his Rinnesharingan has 6 tomoe now doesn't mean that he is physically less powerful. And thats asuming that the 6 tomoe thing isn't an art error.

all those got debunked on previous posts.

1) they never saw 9T Madara so they can't comment on him losing chakra.

2) chakra is the combination of both physical power and spiritual power as seen here and here, there's even more if you want to.
so having more chakra means having more physical power and I even back it up with feats in post #52 etc.

3) and lastly this has been debunked since Kishi did put Madara with 6T even in Jin no Sho which's released way after the chapter, more details in post #92.

 

[Metalija]

1) they never saw 9T Madara so they can't comment on him losing chakra.

Naruto can sense chakra

2) chakra is the combination of both physical power and spiritual power as seen here and here, there's even more if you want to.
so having more chakra means having more physical power and I even back it up with feats in post #52 etc.

Having a lot of chakra doesn't mean that you are physically powerful. You can be buff and have average reserves of chakra (Zabuza), and you can be physically frail and have a ton of chakra (Nagato). If chakra reserves determined your AP then every shinobi would lose AP every time they use a jutsu. It would mean that when Kakashi lost half of his chakra doing the lightning clone against Pain that his AP and speed got cut in half which is bullshit. The only time when chakra reserves affect AP is when a shinobi is very low on chakra so his stats decrease.

3) and lastly this has been debunked since Kishi did put Madara with 6T even in Jin no Sho which's released way after the chapter, more details in post #92.

We still don't know if this is intentional.

 

[KingTempest]

Stop saying my name when I don't ask for it to be said.

How'd all chakra go to their hands if Obito and Sakura's half dead asses were alive?

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Naruto can sense chakra

there's no proof he can sense chakra from this far away, remember Madara was near the moon at this point that's tens of thousands of kilometres or even hundreds and even if you assume so that would do nothing since Madara activated I.T the moment he opened his Rinne Sharingan his chakra didn't stay with him in the first place.

Having a lot of chakra doesn't mean that you are physically powerful. You can be buff and have average reserves of chakra (Zabuza), and you can be physically frail and have a ton of chakra (Nagato). If chakra reserves determined your AP then every shinobi would lose AP every time they use a jutsu. It would mean that when Kakashi lost half of his chakra doing the lightning clone against Pain that his AP and speed got cut in half which is bullshit. The only time when chakra reserves affect AP is when a shinobi is very low on chakra so his stats decrease.

wait a minute, are you saying that Zabuza is stronger than Pain physically just because he's buff-like LOL

"getting literally stomped by part 1 Kakashi"

"hold his own against Naruto who couldn't overpower him until entering Sage Mode"
and remember Nagato > Deva Path.

so apparently, part 1 Kakashi is stronger than post Sage Mode training Naruto LMAO

We still don't know if this is intentional.

you know that he literally took this particular panel from the manga and put it in Jin no Sho with the same 6T without "fixing it" and he got plenty of time to do so he wasn't in hurry like when he draws the chapter furthermore there's no reason to assume its an art error in the first place since in the same page in Jin no Sho Madara is drawn with his 9T yet in that only particular panel he's 6T.

 

[KingTempest]

there's no proof he can sense chakra from this far away

Did he forget Naruto sensed in other dimensions?

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Stop saying my name when I don't ask for it to be said.

How'd all chakra go to their hands if Obito and Sakura's half dead asses were alive?

never stated they did, please look post #94 for more details.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Did he forget Naruto sensed in other dimensions?

acting like you didn't see the other part of the sentence lol + dimensional sensing =/= enhanced sensing, just because he can sense somethings in another dimension he can sense something far away on his own dimension if so, why he didn't sense Toneri chakra all those years?

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

low quality, I know.

 

[Metalija]

wait a minute, are you saying that Zabuza is stronger than Pain physically just because he's buff-like LOL

He is probably stronger physically than anorexic Nagato that was controling Pains. Meme all you want. Nagato despite having a frail body has a shitton of chakra, so according to your logic he should be this buff mofo since chakra=physical energy.
EDIT: He is probably not, but my main point still stands. Chakra levels don't detemine AP.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

He is probably stronger physically than anorexic Nagato that was controling Pains. Meme all you want. Nagato despite having a frail body has a shitton of chakra, so according to your logic he should be this buff mofo since chakra=physical energy.

being stronger physically =/= having a large body, why I need to educate you on that oh gooood did you ever studied physics ??
look in briefly, Kinetic Energy = 1/2MV^2, other than mass, velocity also affect the output of your physical energy.
for example, there are 2 guys the first is a skinny virgin with a mass of let's say 60 kilos and the other is a big mofo with a mass of 200 kilos, Yet the first guy has a speed of 100 m/s and the bulk dude is only 10 m/s. (assuming they both use their whole body mass)
applying the values we find that the physical energy of the skinny dude = 1/2*60*100^2 =300,000 joules or Wall level.
the big mofo output = 1/2*200*10^2 = 10,000 joules or Street level+.
the skinny dude is 30x times stronger than the big mofo in physical energy, that's how someone like bruce lee has low body mass yet he's super strong.

let alone that this real-life in anime characters likes Goku who isn't that buff and he's Uni+ physically or even Gai who's definitely got a lower body mass than the likes of the Raikage yet he's like a trillion times stronger than him physically.

 

[Metalija]

Why are you writing me all of this? I know how physics works. My main point is that chakra levels don't determine AP. I used a sick Nagato to prove that you don't need a buff body to have a ton of chakra. Your above post agrees with that. I should have not mentioned Zabuza, that was a terrible example on my part. Let me give a different example. Its been said that Kisame has the most chakra in the Akatsuki, but that doesn't mean that he has the highest AP. Obito, Pain, Itachi should all have higher AP than him despite having less chakra.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Why are you writing me all of this? I know how physics works. My main point is that chakra levels don't determine AP. I used a sick Nagato to prove that you don't need a buff body to have a ton of chakra. Your above post agrees with that. I should have not mentioned Zabuza, that was a terrible example on my part. Let me give a different example. Its been said that Kisame has the most chakra in the Akatsuki, but that doesn't mean that he has the highest AP. Obito, Pain, Itachi should all have higher AP than him despite having less chakra.

I don't want this to turn to Kisame verses the Akatsuki and I'm sure that the statement was like "Kisame have large chakra even for an Akatsuki" or something like that which doesn't say he has the largest chakra furthermore Pain didn't ever see Itachi's Susanoo he only knows his base sick-mode chakra and probably he was only talking on deva path which isn't that ridiculous to believe since Kisame was stated that he has Biju level of chakra also he has feats like tanking 8 tails version 2 Killer Bee with minimal damage, which should be stronger than the 6 Tail version 2 Naruto who "cough" stomped pain "cough", but even if we assume that's true that doesn't change anything since you still failed to realise that chakra is the combination of both physical and spiritual energy. for example and I will use basics number here, there are 2 characters A and B.
let's assume A has 100 chakra and B has 80 chakra
Character A is > Character B in chakra
But, A chakra is 80% spiritual and 20% physical while B chakra is 20% spiritual and 80% physical.
that would make B > A physically but ninjutsu-wise A > B and vice-versa.

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE
Thanks to you, when I was looking in the chapters I found this beautiful scan

"Kisame literally stated that the more chakra you lose the weaker you get and the more chakra you get the stronger you are"

Case Closed ?

 

[Metalija]

also he has feats like tanking 8 tails version 2 Killer Bee with minimal damage,

Bro what do you mean "minimal damage" his entire torso got deleted lol.

let's assume A has 100 chakra and B has 80 chakra
Character A is > Character B in chakra
But, A chakra is 80% spiritual and 20% physical while B chakra is 20% spiritual and 80% physical.
that would make B > A physically but ninjutsu-wise A > B and vice-versa.

Sure but can't quantify how much physical was the chakra that Madara lost,

"Kisame literally stated that the more chakra you lose the weaker you get and the more chakra you get the stronger you are"

Ok? Kisame can amp himself with stolen chakra. That doesn't mean that someone with smaller chakra reserves than him has lower AP. You can't just look at someones chakra pool and automaticaly determine their AP that way.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Bro what do you mean "minimal damage" his entire torso got deleted lol.

still survived it and regenerated in a less than a second which put him in the same bool, keep in mind that was a stronger foe than Pain's.

Sure but can't quantify how much physical was the chakra that Madara lost,

Yes, but just cause you can't quantify it, doesn't mean he didn't lose it at all, since its combination of both physical and spiritual energy, losing chakra automatically makes you weaker, yes you can't determine how much but the fact that he lost some of his physical energy is all what I need.

Ok? Kisame can amp himself with stolen chakra. That doesn't mean that someone with smaller chakra reserves than him has lower AP. You can't just look at someones chakra pool and automaticaly determine their AP that way.

Actually, you can like when Hasirama sensed Juubito chakra and said that he's stronger than him or when he saw Madara's getting his body back and stated he's regaining his past strength just by looking at him, furthermore Neji sensed Kisame chakra and said he didn't saw that much POWER since naruto, on top of that Kisame was stated to have Jinchuriki like chakra which's putting out Jinchuriki like power, Madara stated that shinobi becomes stronger after getting naruto chakra, Kakashi stated that it gives him 3x times his powers, he also stated that Naruto is 4x times stronger but with Nine-Tails Chakra he's 100 times stronger, Naruto becomes stronger in KCM because he trade his chakra with Kurama, and also Madara stated that Rasenshuriken contains too much energy , Momoshiki was also sensing Naruto's chakra away from the planet saying that he's the strongest, lol even the fact that naruto become stronger AP-wise just because he get Nine tails chakra throughout the whole series end this entire conversation.

Edit :- Also Kisame stated that Killer Bee would become weaker too, so Nope it's not about kisame.

 

[The_Alxhemist]

Chakra pool never determined AP, it's their control of it that does. If we were to move entirely based on the assumption that chakra pool determined AP, then the likes of BM Naruto or anyone with similar reserves eg Hashirama would be considered a good deal above the Chakra Cannon's AP with a few hundred Jonins

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Chakra pool never determined AP, it's their control of it that does. If we were to move entirely based on the assumption that chakra pool determined AP, then the likes of BM Naruto or anyone with similar reserves eg Hashirama would be considered a good deal above the Chakra Cannon's AP with a few hundred Jonins

both actually do, and I backed up with dozens of scans in my last post also if it doesn't matter why they used couple hundreds why not only one? but this isn't the point here anyway since Madara had the same chakra control which's the highest level btw since he has Six Path Senjutsu and the only difference here is the amount of chakra which would affect his AP since the other factor here is irrelevant since it didn't change to begin with, unless you assume that RinneSharingan Madara got even better in chakra control too which would do nothing but making him even stronger.

 

[KingTempest]

Chakra is stamina.

If you lose chakra, you lose stamina.

If you run out of chakra, you die.

Case Closed ?

 

[Metalija]

Madara stated that shinobi becomes stronger after getting naruto chakra, Kakashi stated that it gives him 3x times his powers

Thats because Bijuu chakra is stronger than normal chakra. Also the cloak is a transformation that amps you.

and also Madara stated that Rasenshuriken contains too much energy

Yes the amount of chakra that ninjutsu has does affect AP, not the chakra reserves of a person though, because you are not puting all of your chakra into a punch at once.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Chakra is stamina.

If you lose chakra, you lose stamina.

If you run out of chakra, you die.

nope, chakra is a type of energy specifically physical and spiritual energy its made of stamina but it's not stamina on its own, Rasengan is made of chakra, Chidori too, even Biju Dama, getting more chakra makes you stronger, losing chakra making you weaker as I proved with various statements.