Natsu Dragneel vs. Demiurge

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Guess I'm gonna unfollow this now...

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I think he can, honestly, I mostly talking about the Hellfire affecting him if it actually hits.

If he eats the flames and they aren't converted into magical energy right after then yeah, eating them would probably have him accidentally hax himself. If they're converted to mana once he eats them then they'd probably lose the soul-affecting properties in the process.

 

[Blahblah9755]

When he eats them, they still need to travel through his mouth to his stomach, since we know flames fill him up. In that time they'd still be burning him before they're converted to magic.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

It's not like he has to digest it, he absorbed Laxus's lightning by being hit with it iirc.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

To be fair Dragon, Laxus gave Natsu his power, he didn't try to hit him and Natsu absorbed it

 

[DragonEmperor23]

There's also the fact that Natsu would notice the magic and be ready to eat it.

 

[Moritzva]

Some people said Natsu resists demonic things, which I told them to CRT. If added, might be a stomp.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Some people said Natsu resists demonic things, which I told them to CRT. If added, might be a stomp.

Demiurge is an imp, not a demon you pleb

 

[Moritzva]

Hey fam they brought it up kek

 

[Blahblah9755]

There's also the fact that Natsu would notice the magic and be ready to eat it.

But if he eats it it goes through his mouth touching and burning it, so that'd work against him.

 

[The_Calaca]

Hm... Blah seems to make sense. If Dem's flames bypasses resistances then Natsu won't do that with no repercussions on his body and he doesn't have regen to fix that inner damage.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Pretty sure it gets converted to Magic energy the second it goes in his mouth. That's why Laxus got lung cancer and not stomach cancer after all.

 

[The_Calaca]

What? If Laxus got lung cancer then the magic travells more than the absorbing organ.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Except, he can actually eat fire as food, and has mentioned how it fills him up in the past. Also, what you said about Laxus would apply it goes into his lungs, that's just as bad if not worse than stomach.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

it would funnel into his mouth, not touching him

 

[1997KD]

What? If Laxus got lung cancer then the magic travells more than the absorbing organ.

Laxus did it on a purpose,and that was anti magic particle,amd non lightining based attack

 

[Akreious]

Natsu will not be able to devour Hellfire Wall. First and foremost, the flames at best comes from the side and engulfs the entire body. Natsu will literally have to anticipate and at the very moment he's engulfed, start sucking it. If he stalls and screams in agony like he did in pretty much every other time he's encountered unique fires, he's going to die. He at best has partial resistance to Soul Manipulation from what I see right now (Zeref unable to take Natsu's soul? There's another thing but I don't think people has properly explained that bit).

Should Command Mantra fail, he could also resort to summons. Of which, this one here has the spell called "Insanity". You can extrapolate what it does. If there's an argument for Command Mantra working, there's no doubt that a Tier 8 spell would do even more in stride. Of course he could use any other summon and just swarm Natsu with minions (Or use Armageddon Evil for the same thing). While none of which are "Stronger" than Natsu, Demiurge's game is just sending hoardes of mobs against the enemy.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

If you guys wanna talk about flames that burnt Natsu, then look at Zancrow's God Slayer flames. Natsu even notes that it burns him, he still ate it with no repurcussions to his stomach or lungs. If he eats the hellfire, it isn't burning shit.

 

[Moritzva]

Natsu will not be able to devour Hellfire Wall. First and foremost, the flames at best comes from the side and engulfs the entire body. Natsu will literally have to anticipate and at the very moment he's engulfed, start sucking it. If he stalls and screams in agony like he did in pretty much every other time he's encountered unique fires, he's going to die. He at best has partial resistance to Soul Manipulation from what I see right now (Zeref unable to take Natsu's soul? There's another thing but I don't think people has properly explained that bit).
Should Command Mantra fail, he could also resort to summons. Of which, this one here has the spell called "Insanity". You can extrapolate what it does. If there's an argument for Command Mantra working, there's no doubt that a Tier 8 spell would do even more in stride. Of course he could use any other summon and just swarm Natsu with minions (Or use Armageddon Evil for the same thing). While none of which are "Stronger" than Natsu, Demiurge's game is just sending hoardes of mobs against the enemy.

Took the words out of my mouth. Demiurge takes this.

 

[1997KD]

Took the words out of my mouth. Demiurge takes this.

Hold one,

1)the flame comes as a wave, no explanation why he can't dodge it, and no debunking on natsu consuming it

just like that, no touching to body, and once he did it, demiurge need to run away from him.
2)natsu can easily blast off all monster with single attack, or just break throw them

 

[Moritzva]

1. Command Mantra won't fail and nothing has been presented against it without assuming game mechanics.

2. The flame is exceptionally fast and doesn't even seem to be physical as much of an indication of where it's going, as it went straight past Evileye and instead blasted from under Natsu's feet.

3. One of the summons has Insanity, which also beats Natsu

4. Natsu may be strong but Demiurge can send army, after army, after army. Natsu can't deal with all that.

Any vote for Natsu ignoring Demiurge's mind and soul hax can be ignored.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

As Pixel sort of pointed out, stuff like levels aren't really a thing in the New World, that's only how Command Mantra would have worked in YGGDRASIL.

The only time we see it sort of not work is when someone had a peice of special equipment that let them resist it. Even then they were still affected to some degree.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Does the spell have a description for what it does or is the name all you're going off for Insanity?

 

[Moritzva]

Exactly. Now, may we have a vote count?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Based on the proceedings and the nature of the arguments on both sides, you can add my vote for Demiurge FRA.

 

[WHYNAUT]

I vote Demiurge fra. I feel like a lot of the pros for Demi have not been really been countered.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Does the spell have a description for what it does or is the name all you're going off for Insanity?

^

 

[AnonymousBlank]

1. Command Mantra won't fail and nothing has been presented against it without assuming game mechanics.
2. The flame is exceptionally fast and doesn't even seem to be physical as much of an indication of where it's going, as it went straight past Evileye and instead blasted from under Natsu's feet.

3. One of the summons has Insanity, which also beats Natsu

4. Natsu may be strong but Demiurge can send army, after army, after army. Natsu can't deal with all that.

Any vote for Natsu ignoring Demiurge's mind and soul hax can be ignored.

Demon Particles.

What exactly are you talking about here? Not sure what scene you are describing. Hellfire is definitely from being a demon so Demon Particles again.

That demon just grabbed the queen and used her as a bat, how fast is it going for Insanity exactly (which Natsu resists anyway)? Insane Natsu ... so END who proceeds to one shot the summon.

Base Natsu was literally beating an army of 100,000+ guys by himself and you think Demiurge is gonna overwhelm FDKM with fodder?

 

[Moritzva]

1. CRT.

2. CRT again. It's not listed on the profile thus it's a non-argument.

3. CRT again. Also, likely pretty fast if fire doesn't work.

4. "Fodder" that are even close to Demiurge's tier who can also summon more fodder on top of that, not to mention varied abilities and strategy all coming from a genius far above Natsu in intelligence.

So let's see. Demiurge can teleport and fly, has an intelligence advantage, has minions, and Natsu doesn't resist any of his hax and will die the moment one lands.

Yup.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

^

Bump

 

[Moritzva]

Insanity is merely one example. He can summon many monsters with many effects, after all. Whoever originally brought up insanity can testify it's abilities and the abilities of other summons, some of who teeter just below Demiurge in strength.

However, you have not retorted the fact that Natsu indeed doesn't resist Demiurge's hax.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

For the last time people, Demiurge isn't a Demon. They have those in Overlord, and they're a completely different thing than what Demiurge is.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

For the last time people, Demiurge isn't a Demon. They have those in Overlord, and they're a completely different thing than what Demiurge is.

This is very true. Demiurge is an Arch-Devil.

 

[Moritzva]

So what are the votes, discounting all votes using "demon magic resistance" and ignoring mental hax?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

4. "Fodder" that are even close to Demiurge's tier who can also summon more fodder on top of that, not to mention varied abilities and strategy all coming from a genius far above Natsu in intelligence.

Yup.

I don't see how varied abilities help unless you go into more detail. If the fodder is only close to Demiurge and not even equal, I don't see how that helps either when from a physical aspect you said Natsu would stomp Demi. Genius and strategy doesn't help you from getting hit when your opponent can memorize your movements.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Actually, Evil Lord Wraths should only be in the 7-B/High 7-B range, although I'm still reading through for feats.

Why the heck would Natsu stomp Demi physically? It's just less than 2x gap.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yea, unless Dargoo can toss us a bone here I think it's a stomp.

I specifically said "you said" as I was mentioning what he said earlier.

 

[Moritzva]

Memorize teleportation and flight while spending all your time avoiding hax?

Natsu's strong but he's not that strong. The minions, they can mind hax him, they can soul hax him. If he doesn't eat just one Hellflame, he dies. And while preoccupied with 200 minions, Demiurge could easily teleport behind him and Hellfire him.

And you have still not debated mindhax.

BTW @Dargoo do you think Demiurge should be extraordinary genius on his profile? After he was able to correctly predict Jircniv, a very smart and tactical man's complete train of thought and manipulate him down that path, along with confusing Ainz himself and being 20 steps ahead of him without even trying to, I think it would fit him, yea? I brought it up earlier but it got drowned out.

 

[Moritzva]

Also, what I said earlier I now disagree with. I was under the impression he resisted mind hax and had a massive AP advantage, both are not true.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Demiurge manipulating generally smart people wouldn't exactly put him in the level of Extrodanary Geniuses, to be honest.