Shoto (MHA) vs Natsu (Fairy Tail)

[speedster352]

I think you completely misunderstood the point.

The point was:
Natsu's flame is way hotter than lightning.
Natsu's flame couldn't melt the snow, making the snow EXTREMELY cold.
Natsu survived being dunked in said snow.
Something that cold, due to how thermodynamics works, would drain him of all his heat nigh-instantly because of the difference in temperature.
It did not, therefore any of Shoto's ice attacks shouldn't work at all as they have no reason to scale beyond the coldness of said snow.

That's his later keys he still needed lightning dragon slayer mode to melt sand so that doesn't apply here. It could be that ice counters fire in fairy tail which seems to be the case.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I see you haven't debunked anything I said. Funny enough you accused me of spamming same shit over and over again when you keep on repeating what we've all seen (how ironic).

And I am meant to provide new arguments against what you say how? You keep saying the exact same thing and it’s all an opinion. You don’t even reference anything as to why you think so besides “iTs NoT aN eLeMeNt”

Do pray tell, what element would a mixture of fire and ice produce? I find your argument totally irrational as you are actively trying to force an assumed logic to look logical.

Right … you have no clue on how whack FT is, do you? When Natsu, Gajeel Sting and Rogue eat other elements it becomes LFDM, BFDM, ISDM, WSDM etc. Seems simple enough right? When Natsu gets wind, lightning, iron, white, shadow and poison he ain’t rocking some … Iron Sky Eclipse Poison Lightning Flame Mode, he gets Seven Flame Dragon Mode. Shit looks like fire but is by no means just fire.

FT is the same verse where “Sage”, “Sword Saint” and “Four Holy Beasts” are elements. Do note that Sage has nothing to do with plants or wisdom, Sword Saint is nothing like a Blade/Sword element, and even now, nobody knows wtf Four Holy Beasts is meant to be as an element.

I also fail to see how Dragon Slayers being able to eat anti - magic prove that natsu would be able to eat phosphor without getting nulled.

Now you’re just making shit up to argue against lmfao.

Gonna paraphrase a bit here but you said “Phosphor isn’t an element so Natsu can’t eat it”

My response was ”anti magic isn’t an ‘element’ either so your point doesn’t work”

Am not struggling to debate shoto winning here lol. In fact I should be the one saying ft debators are struggling to provide any significant wincon for natsu and keep on changing their argument till they reach an unreasonable conclusion to natsu winning this.

You misunderstand, you aren’t struggling to say Shoto is winning. You haven’t brought up anything as to how he wins besides your opinion. FT debaters ain’t switching up on their wincons lol, we are providing new ones. The old ones still stand, we are just showing that, unlike Shoto goons, we aren’t dependent on a single thing.

• Shoto has fire? Natsu resists and eats it.
• Shoto has ice? Natsu melts it with his body heat.
• Shoto has Phosphor? See the first bullet point.
• Phosphor isn’t “an element”? Neither are a bunch of things Dragons and Dragon Slayers eat but they can still be nommed.
• Phosphor somehow does neg Natsu’s flames? He still has Dark Regulus which absorbs things that produce light.

I never said natsu uses flame to eat fire. Natsu is not gonna fighting shoto with just punces and kicks. He would obviously use his main element to fight shoto here. As for why I bracket fire in my last debunk, I was disproving this argument that you made:

(Dragon Slayers eating elements, even if not the same type as their own, will negate the effects of said elements.)

We don't know what phosphor is and I have told you this before. Like why would shoto fight dabi with just ice when he is gonna lose? At best shoto phosphor act as a phosphorus retardant that would eventually null you.

Sorry for misunderstanding but this still doesn’t explain why Natsu can’t eat Phosphor nor why Natsu doesn’t power null what is eaten.

Phosphor is neither hot nor cold, it can null on it own, shoto is just capable of changing the temperature of it as we've seen. This is a very simple concept to grasp.

It doesn’t matter if it’s hot or cold, how does this prevent Natsu from eating via Slayers eating elements or BFDM absorbing it via Dark Regulus.

As for natsu being able to resist cold that even his lightning level fire couldn't melt. Well that argument doesn't work out here since there is not gonna be any lightning level flame and temperature to bale natsu out here since phosphor is gonna neg him while the hypothermia and necrosis effects do their work. Bos shoto was capable of freezing usj nomu hand and ripping it in less than a second or a second. Either way natsu would still be getting ****** by necrosis and hypothermia.

What Seiji said.

How would natsu mop the floor with shoto?

He walks through everything the latter has and punches him in the face

Shoto necrosis lead to permanent, irreversible tissue damage and it doesn't help that staying the for less than a second could damage bones and other internal organs. Usj nomu is a perfect example of this. Shoto is not gonna kill natsu, but it is definitely in character for him to go for the incap and shoto necrosis haven't been shown to kill so he obviously doesn’t have death manipulation and likely never will.

Natsu has dealt with temperatures colder than what Shoto has shown so even if he didn’t already resist getting necrosis from Zeref via his scarf, he won’t be getting it from Phosphor.

To sum things up, shoto is still capable of drastically harming natsu with his necrosis and hypothermia + his nullification. It also doesn't help here because shoto attack has the elements of surprise. He can decide to use fire, ice or just phosphor.

Incredible, everything you just said was wrong (besides the last sentence)

Either ways, their have not been a single debate here on how natsu is gonna win this and ft debators keep looking for a way to counter phosphor knowing how much of a threat it is and you guys best way is to make an argument on phosphor being an element. How boring.

There has, you are just wilfully blind.

That's his later keys he still needed lightning dragon slayer mode to melt sand so that doesn't apply here. It could be that ice counters fire in fairy tail which seems to be the case.

Speed, please pay attention when you evidently don’t know FT enough to scale/debate it.

More magic = higher temperature, and Natsu’s base at this point = Franmalth + Hades + LFDM > Initial LFDM > Tenrou Laxus > pre-SO LFDM > FDGM Natsu > Zancrow who could burn Tenrou Natsu when a weaker Natsu wasn’t burned by lightning from Fantasia Laxus = lightning temperature.

Natsu’s flames messing up sand in a later key is by no means a limiting factor for his heat at this point. There are three users on the site that actually participate in FT scaling that know the verse as well as/more than me. Two of them were on this thread and neither of them disagreed with the above heat temperature scaling.

 

[SuperStar]

I think we might as well go incon here.

 

[SeijiSetto]

I think we might as well go incon here.

It's not incon though. If anything it's a stomp in Natsu's favour because Shoto's ENTIRE arsenal is negated.
Fire? Duh.
Ice? Resisted, Natsu has weathered temps way colder than anything Shoto has shown.
Phosphor? Natsu says "I eated it" and gets a new Dragon Mode.

The AP difference is negligible and Natsu is a far better H2H fighter so if it comes to blows, Shoto dies.

 

[SuperStar]

If it’s a stomp then why am I seeing constant back and forth with no conclusion?

 

[SeijiSetto]

If it’s a stomp then why am I seeing constant back and forth with no conclusion?

Don't ask me, ask Danny33wise.

 

[Danny33wise]

I think you completely misunderstood the point.

The point was:
Natsu's flame is way hotter than lightning.
Natsu's flame couldn't melt the snow, making the snow EXTREMELY cold.
Natsu survived being dunked in said snow.
Something that cold, due to how thermodynamics works, would drain him of all his heat nigh-instantly because of the difference in temperature.
It did not, therefore any of Shoto's ice attacks shouldn't work at all as they have no reason to scale beyond the coldness of said snow.

And I am meant to provide new arguments against what you say how? You keep saying the exact same thing and it’s all an opinion. You don’t even reference anything as to why you think so besides “iTs NoT aN eLeMeNt”

Right … you have no clue on how whack FT is, do you? When Natsu, Gajeel Sting and Rogue eat other elements it becomes LFDM, BFDM, ISDM, WSDM etc. Seems simple enough right? When Natsu gets wind, lightning, iron, white, shadow and poison he ain’t rocking some … Iron Sky Eclipse Poison Lightning Flame Mode, he gets Seven Flame Dragon Mode. Shit looks like fire but is by no means just fire.

FT is the same verse where “Sage”, “Sword Saint” and “Four Holy Beasts” are elements. Do note that Sage has nothing to do with plants or wisdom, Sword Saint is nothing like a Blade/Sword element, and even now, nobody knows wtf Four Holy Beasts is meant to be as an element.

Now you’re just making shit up to argue against lmfao.

Gonna paraphrase a bit here but you said “Phosphor isn’t an element so Natsu can’t eat it”

My response was ”anti magic isn’t an ‘element’ either so your point doesn’t work”



You misunderstand, you aren’t struggling to say Shoto is winning. You haven’t brought up anything as to how he wins besides your opinion. FT debaters ain’t switching up on their wincons lol, we are providing new ones. The old ones still stand, we are just showing that, unlike Shoto goons, we aren’t dependent on a single thing.

• Shoto has fire? Natsu resists and eats it.
• Shoto has ice? Natsu melts it with his body heat.
• Shoto has Phosphor? See the first bullet point.
• Phosphor isn’t “an element”? Neither are a bunch of things Dragons and Dragon Slayers eat but they can still be nommed.
• Phosphor somehow does neg Natsu’s flames? He still has Dark Regulus which absorbs things that produce light.

Sorry for misunderstanding but this still doesn’t explain why Natsu can’t eat Phosphor nor why Natsu doesn’t power null what is eaten.

It doesn’t matter if it’s hot or cold, how does this prevent Natsu from eating via Slayers eating elements or BFDM absorbing it via Dark Regulus.

What Seiji said.

He walks through everything the latter has and punches him in the face

Natsu has dealt with temperatures colder than what Shoto has shown so even if he didn’t already resist getting necrosis from Zeref via his scarf, he won’t be getting it from Phosphor.

Incredible, everything you just said was wrong (besides the last sentence)

There has, you are just wilfully blind.

Speed, please pay attention when you evidently don’t know FT enough to scale/debate it.

Natsu’s flames messing up sand in a later key is by no means a limiting factor for his heat at this point. There are three users on the site that actually participate in FT scaling that know the verse as well as/more than me. Two of them were on this thread and neither of them disagreed with the above heat temperature scaling.

@SeijiSetto:

I didn't misunderstood ice > lightning level flames. If natsu was actively trying to burn the snow/ice, then doesn’t the feat kind of proof that part of his resistance come from his fire?

Even if natsu has resistance to cold manipulation here, it doesn't still stops shoto internal freezing him like he did with chimera, leviathan and usj nomu. Natsu with his cold resistance doesn’t still null hypothermia and necrosis +nullification.

Also, am really curious on why natsu profile doesn't seem to list this kind of high level resistance to cold when it would be pretty useful. I know that that his profile has cold resistance, but this feat you are pointing out seems more impressive than what is their right now. This feat of ice > above lightning level flame is pretty cool feat and the only reason it isn't added could be because of something am not aware off. I will make sure to ask other FT debators and do more research before making any assumptions.

@AnonymousBlank:

How am I saying the exact same thing? And like you imply yourself, you are not bringing out anything new for me to change my arguments. And last time I checked, I am the only one here bringing wincons here.

I see you are still trying to make phosphor look like an element here when it not. Unless you can prove natsu can eat phosphor without going back and forth on your words, Phosphor still neg him.

I don't know and haven't heard off any of those verse you just you just listed.

Anti-magic not being an element doesn’t still prove that he would be able to resist shoto nullification. Anti-magic null others by nullifying their magic and as a side effect or as their verse works, it would also null their element. Phosphor doesn't work that way, it works as a flame retardant.

I have brought out multiple way on how shoto wins. Shoto can null natsu, he can give him hypothermia and necrosis and he has the superior stat advantage. I would like to hear what are these natsu wincons are.

As for the light absorption thing, I think king has already disproved that argument.

Natsu having resistance to cold temperature doesn’t give him resistance to shoto internally freezing him and still giving necrosis.

Natsu punching shoto wouldn't do anything significant here. If am wilfully blind, then you are just wilfully ignorant because shoto stomps your character here. Also, how is the wincon I provide you wrong.

It doesn't matter it if natsu heat is hot or anything, his attacks are doing shit here.

 

[speedster352]

Shoto fra

 

[AnonymousBlank]

.@AnonymousBlank:

How am I saying the exact same thing? And like you imply yourself, you are not bringing out anything new for me to change my arguments. And last time I checked, I am the only one here bringing wincons here.

Memory of a goldfish I see. You just accused me of constantly changing up the wincon I am arguing for Natsu. By definition, I have to be bringing new arguments based on your own claim.

I see you are still trying to make phosphor look like an element here when it not. Unless you can prove natsu can eat phosphor without going back and forth on your words, Phosphor still neg him.

I’m going to have to ask you to define what you mean by element because you keep saying this and nothing else.

I don't know and haven't heard off any of those verse you just you just listed.

Those aren’t verses, they are modes and “elements” in FT. All of which are able to be eaten by Dragon Slayers.

Anti-magic not being an element doesn’t still prove that he would be able to resist shoto nullification. Anti-magic null others by nullifying their magic and as a side effect or as their verse works, it would also null their element. Phosphor doesn't work that way, it works as a flame retardant.

Stop disagreeing for the sake of it and actually read what I am saying. I’m not saying Natsu resists Shoto’s power null because he is technically able to eat something that can power null him, I’m saying that he can eat something that isn’t an element (even by FT’s bizarre and nigh-all encompassing standards), thus your ridiculous “counter” that Phosphor isn’t an “element” holds no water since it’s a proven fact that Dragon Slayers (and thus Natsu) can eat things that aren’t elements.

Even Shoto’s page disagrees with this shit of it not being an element or being a flame retardant. It only says it’s a mixture/combo of fire and ice, that it’s “cold fire”, and clearly function like something cold given how it freezes over the city behind Dabi. He also only uses it in cqc base on the scans on his page, the same place where Natsu completely bodies him in terms of skill.

I have brought out multiple way on how shoto wins. Shoto can null natsu, he can give him hypothermia and necrosis and he has the superior stat advantage. I would like to hear what are these natsu wincons are.

No you haven’t. All you’ve said is Phosphor. That’s it. That is the one thing you have argued.

On the other hand, I have brought up multiple reasons for why necrosis wouldn’t work against Natsu, presented an entire scaling chain for why hypothermia isn’t happening, explained why Natsu’s flames are hotter than anything Phosphor has nulled, why Shoto’s fire and ice are both less than useless here, multiple ways for Natsu to absorb or consume Phosphor, and the fact that even if Natsu’s flames do get partially or fully nulled by Phosphor, it changes nothing since he can still use the Dark Regulus aspect of his BFDM which he and Eclipse Leo both use the exact same as Natsu’s normal spells but with the added benefit of making his opponent sick.

But hey, you want something new (because I am somehow not the one constantly bringing new arguments)? Natsu makes Shoto freeze and unable to do anything with his fear manip which can affect inanimate objects and just wails on him until he drops.

As for the light absorption thing, I think king has already disproved that argument.

Kingofwolves hasn’t disproven anything. All he did was say that it only absorbed light which I already showed that it isn’t light that gets absorbed but what produces the light.

Natsu having resistance to cold temperature doesn’t give him resistance to shoto internally freezing him and still giving necrosis.

If Natsu resists the cold, how does necrosis via freezing or freezing work when he resists it?

Natsu punching shoto wouldn't do anything significant here. If am wilfully blind, then you are just wilfully ignorant because shoto stomps your character here. Also, how is the wincon I provide you wrong.

Except I can’t be wilfully ignorant when I am the one who keeps asking you to actually explain your stance and you refuse to do so. I’m actually open to being wrong, you just won’t prove anything.

It doesn't matter it if natsu heat is hot or anything, his attacks are doing shit here.

Actually prove this claim. I ain’t even asking for a chapter of scans here or some shit. At least explain your thought process and the reasoning behind it.

 

[Zackra1799]

the idea that shoto can just internally freeze natsu like the usj Nomu and chimera is out of the picture, the usj Nomu lacks any kind of cold resistance so that feat is useless here. The chimera feat, literally required him to grapple and shove his hand into his mouth, which is also something natsu can easily counter

The idea that shoto would eventually fully negate natsu's fire and heat is also ridiculous considering shoto wouldn't be able to concentrate on Phosphor that long, also natsu literally has the perfect counter with his Passive rage and emotion amp. Both of which increase not only his stats but also his heat, to a level far higher that before. For example his emotion amps allowed natsu to stop an attack by zero, someone who had one-shot him previously, his Rage Amp also scales to a similar level. So shoto ain't stopping natsu's heat enough to freeze him.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Missed a lot, not reading through all of that.

I'm going to start counting votes, but only if you believe this match up isn't a stomp. Please clearly say if you think this match up is a stomp in that case.

We'll go by the majority's ruling here.

 

[Zackra1799]

I personally don't think this is a stomp just a very decisive win in natsu's favor.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I personally don't think this is a stomp just a very decisive win in natsu's favor.

Are you assuming he can eat Phosphor?

If so, how does Shoto beat Natsu when he's immune to two out of his three options of attacking and highly resistant to his only other method of attack?

 

[SeijiSetto]

If Natsu eats Phosphor, entirely negates fire, resists ice and can wash Shoto in CQC, then yeah that's a stomp for him. No other options.

 

[Zackra1799]

Are you assuming he can eat Phosphor?

If so, how does Shoto beat Natsu when he's immune to two out of his three options of attacking and highly resistant to his only other method of attack?

I'm indifferent about him being able to eat Phosphor, at the very least he won't lead with that tactic. Dragon slayers like natsu could absorb it but they typically only do so as a last resort however natsu has absorbed random powers the most out of any dragon slayer.

Imo I don't think natsu would need to go for a tactic like that here, since the ap is so close and natsu typically does something like this when he's losing or sees no other way to beat his opponent.

 

[Danny33wise]

Memory of a goldfish I see. You just accused me of constantly changing up the wincon I am arguing for Natsu. By definition, I have to be bringing new arguments based on your own claim.

I’m going to have to ask you to define what you mean by element because you keep saying this and nothing else.

Those aren’t verses, they are modes and “elements” in FT. All of which are able to be eaten by Dragon Slayers.

Stop disagreeing for the sake of it and actually read what I am saying. I’m not saying Natsu resists Shoto’s power null because he is technically able to eat something that can power null him, I’m saying that he can eat something that isn’t an element (even by FT’s bizarre and nigh-all encompassing standards), thus your ridiculous “counter” that Phosphor isn’t an “element” holds no water since it’s a proven fact that Dragon Slayers (and thus Natsu) can eat things that aren’t elements.

Even Shoto’s page disagrees with this shit of it not being an element or being a flame retardant. It only says it’s a mixture/combo of fire and ice, that it’s “cold fire”, and clearly function like something cold given how it freezes over the city behind Dabi. He also only uses it in cqc base on the scans on his page, the same place where Natsu completely bodies him in terms of skill.

No you haven’t. All you’ve said is Phosphor. That’s it. That is the one thing you have argued.

On the other hand, I have brought up multiple reasons for why necrosis wouldn’t work against Natsu, presented an entire scaling chain for why hypothermia isn’t happening, explained why Natsu’s flames are hotter than anything Phosphor has nulled, why Shoto’s fire and ice are both less than useless here, multiple ways for Natsu to absorb or consume Phosphor, and the fact that even if Natsu’s flames do get partially or fully nulled by Phosphor, it changes nothing since he can still use the Dark Regulus aspect of his BFDM which he and Eclipse Leo both use the exact same as Natsu’s normal spells but with the added benefit of making his opponent sick.

But hey, you want something new (because I am somehow not the one constantly bringing new arguments)? Natsu makes Shoto freeze and unable to do anything with his fear manip which can affect inanimate objects and just wails on him until he drops.

Kingofwolves hasn’t disproven anything. All he did was say that it only absorbed light which I already showed that it isn’t light that gets absorbed but what produces the light.

If Natsu resists the cold, how does necrosis via freezing or freezing work when he resists it?

Except I can’t be wilfully ignorant when I am the one who keeps asking you to actually explain your stance and you refuse to do so. I’m actually open to being wrong, you just won’t prove anything.

Actually prove this claim. I ain’t even asking for a chapter of scans here or some shit. At least explain your thought process and the reasoning behind it.

I never accused just you, if I remember correctly I said You ft debators. I was not calling only you out since you aren’t the only one here who brought a wincon here.

If you don't know what elements are then go watch avatar cause am not defining shit.

Okay so are you agreeing with me on natsu not being able to eat phosphor or neh . This statement you made kind of imply that you kind of agree but also disagree:

I’m not saying Natsu resists Shoto’s power null because he is technically able to eat something that can power null him.

Shoto page disagrees with me because shoto used Phosphor nullification + ice to fight dabi. Shoto was never going to use fire + Phosphor nullification against dabi. The main purpose of Phosphor existence is for shoto to create a body dabi couldn't burn and also nullify him.

You also have to take note of shoto mindset during that fight because dabi is his brother and shoto wouldn't go as far to kill him or just straight up outlast him by dodging dabi's attack.

Shoto practically nerfed himself to fight against dabi because we still know that he could have used fire + phosphor to damage dabi even more.

Also, shoto doesn’t only use phosphor in cqc. He has been shown to use Aegir in an explosion like manner. He basically covered a few kilometres by just throwing a punch in the air in and instant and it created a large dome. So Natsu can’t escape that if shoto decided to only use long range attacks.

Natsu flame being hotter than anything shoto has seen doesn’t still bale him out from getting nulled. And your multiple way for natsu resisting necrosis doesn’t work. Shoto would break natsu bone once he has caught him in his necrosis because natsu only has resistance to cold temp and not internal freezing and him getting necrosis from there.

Even if natsu can absorb light and also null attack, it only a matter of time before shoto figures out what natsu is doing giving that Shoto’s also have gifted intelligence. Nothing would be stopping shoto from simply blitzing natsu since he has been shown to be able to blitz someone in the same speed category as him. Once shoto blitz natsu with his amp, he is more than capable of launching aegir and still null natsu.

Like I pointed out before, even with natsu resistance to cold temp, he still doesn't resist internal freezing and then getting the necrosis from their. As for natsu fear manipulation, shoto was willing to fight afo who has fear manipulation till the point it causes illusion and also paralyse his opponent. Shoto could also face shigaraki who cause fear to mind control individuals. Fear manipulation is most definitely not a wincon here.

When did I not explain my stance? I would like to hear your reasoning behind this claim. If I remembered correctly, the one thing I have been doing is explaining my stance and giving reasons to why shoto wins. It not like I don't see natsu winning this, I actually think he can win this but he just has a lesser % rate at winning and your debate already proves that.

If am not missing anything here, this are natsu wincons and here are my counters.

Fire/heat shoto hasn’t before > both attacks would only warm shoto up and stop him from getting hypothermia.

Light absorption that null > Shoto would notice this due to his gifted intelligence and actually blitz natsu then launch aegir (shoto can blitz some one in the same speed category as him with amp)

Fear manipulation > Shoto willing decided to fight afo despite knowing that afo has fear manipulation that gives illusion and causes some to get paralysed. He also faced shigaraki who could give fear to mind controlled liberation front.

Resistance to cold temperature > Shoto can use internal freezing on him and still give natsu necrosis in seconds and it would break natsu bones in half's.

Eating elements + magic > phosphor is neither of both but can be an element if shoto decided to.

To sum things up, this key of natsu is pretty impressive but shoto hard counters him here and it doesn't help that shoto also has the superior stat advantage even though they are some what close in ap.

 

[SeijiSetto]

lemme preface by saying deadass i haven't read fairy tail, i was just lurking the thread and listening to what OTHER people have said cuz it was interesting so if you ask me for scans i'm gonna tell you "go ask [x] person"

To sum things up, this key of natsu is pretty impressive but shoto hard counters him here and it doesn't help that shoto also has the superior stat advantage even though they are some what close in ap.

"superior stats" it's like a 1.07x diff, you'd probably find bigger differences between 2 random people you picked off the street, for all intents and purposes their AP is literally identical

If you don't know what elements are then go watch avatar cause am not defining shit.

this is not a good look
the crux of the argument is that "dragon slayers can eat basically anything, even things you wouldn't normally consider 'elements' like the standard fire water earth and air"
logically he should be able to eat phosphor even though it's some weird cold fire hybrid thingy

Okay so are you agreeing with me on natsu not being able to eat phosphor or neh . This statement you made kind of imply that you kind of agree but also disagree:

idk how you read this and managed to interpret that
i'm pretty sure blank's point is just "slayers can eat basically anything, even shit normally considered inedible or not an element or w/e" ergo he should be able to eat phosphor

Natsu flame being hotter than anything shoto has seen doesn’t still bale him out from getting nulled. And your multiple way for natsu resisting necrosis doesn’t work. Shoto would break natsu bone once he has caught him in his necrosis because natsu only has resistance to cold temp and not internal freezing and him getting necrosis from there.

if shoto's powernull is coming from him mixing his own cold with his own heat to make Phosphor:
wouldn't it be useless against things way hotter than his own cold? (which is the important component that creates the heat-nulling effect)
unless you're gonna argue shoto could turn off the sun for example because "it's fire and phosphor automatically negs fire"
if natsu has shown heat far beyond anything shoto can do, then phosphor wouldn't really affect it, no?

Fire/heat shoto hasn’t before > both attacks would only warm shoto up and stop him from getting hypothermia.

if the heat is >>>>>>>> anything shoto has seen before, the fire would cook him and kill him, not just "stop him from getting hypothermia"

Light absorption that null > Shoto would notice this due to his gifted intelligence and actually blitz natsu then launch aegir (shoto can blitz some one in the same speed category as him with amp)

can you show me said blitz amp
also y'know if said BFDM nulls shoto's powers... he... wouldn't be able to do the blitz amp OR the aegir, no?

Fear manipulation > Shoto willing decided to fight afo despite knowing that afo has fear manipulation that gives illusion and causes some to get paralysed. He also faced shigaraki who could give fear to mind controlled liberation front.

yeah probably, idk anything about this point so i won't comment

Resistance to cold temperature > Shoto can use internal freezing on him and still give natsu necrosis in seconds and it would break natsu bones in half's.

can you show me shoto giving necrosis to people in seconds

Eating elements + magic > phosphor is neither of both but can be an element if shoto decided to.

how does he "decide" if it's an element or not, how does he actively change it
i've personally been convinced that natsu would be able to eat it but i'll let blank do the talking on that one

 

[Danny33wise]

lemme preface by saying deadass i haven't read fairy tail, i was just lurking the thread and listening to what OTHER people have said cuz it was interesting so if you ask me for scans i'm gonna tell you "go ask [x] person"


"superior stats" it's like a 1.07x diff, you'd probably find bigger differences between 2 random people you picked off the street, for all intents and purposes their AP is literally identical

this is not a good look
the crux of the argument is that "dragon slayers can eat basically anything, even things you wouldn't normally consider 'elements' like the standard fire water earth and air"
logically he should be able to eat phosphor even though it's some weird cold fire hybrid thingy

idk how you read this and managed to interpret that
i'm pretty sure blank's point is just "slayers can eat basically anything, even shit normally considered inedible or not an element or w/e" ergo he should be able to eat phosphor

if shoto's powernull is coming from him mixing his own cold with his own heat to make Phosphor:
wouldn't it be useless against things way hotter than his own cold? (which is the important component that creates the heat-nulling effect)
unless you're gonna argue shoto could turn off the sun for example because "it's fire and phosphor automatically negs fire"
if natsu has shown heat far beyond anything shoto can do, then phosphor wouldn't really affect it, no?

if the heat is >>>>>>>> anything shoto has seen before, the fire would cook him and kill him, not just "stop him from getting hypothermia"

can you show me said blitz amp
also y'know if said BFDM nulls shoto's powers... he... wouldn't be able to do the blitz amp OR the aegir, no?

yeah probably, idk anything about this point so i won't comment

can you show me shoto giving necrosis to people in seconds

how does he "decide" if it's an element or not, how does he actively change it
i've personally been convinced that natsu would be able to eat it but i'll let blank do the talking on that one

Their ap is not identical neither is the rest of their stats. Even if the gap between them ain't much, theirs still gap.

How is me not wanting to define element give me a bad look? I already agreed natsu can eat element and lightning, and as thing currently stand phosphor is neither and natsu can't eat it with whatever logic you guys keep popping up with.

Am not not misinterpreting anything here, but you most definitely aren't wrong in what you just said. The only problem with your answer is that it left some context behind. Now reread what he just said and you will see that am not wrong:

Stop disagreeing for the sake of it and actually read what I am saying. I’m not saying Natsu resists Shoto’s power null because he is technically able to eat something that can power null him, I’m saying that he can eat something that isn’t an element (even by FT’s bizarre and nigh-all encompassing standards), thus your ridiculous “counter” that Phosphor isn’t an “element” holds no water since it’s a proven fact that Dragon Slayers (and thus Natsu) can eat things that aren’t elements.

Look at the one's that I curved. He never did disagree with me nor did he agree with me either. The only point he made here was that (even with natsu doesn’t eat phosphor or resist the null effect, natsu is still capable of eating lot of stuff and most aren’t element based.). I hope u see what am saying, am just trying to see if what he agree/disagree or am just getting some stuff he said wrongly. So yeah he was vague.

I like your sun example, so here's my answer. If the sun were to be small as a soccer ball yet hot as the real deal then I still shoto nulling. Why? I am fully aware that something of that magnitude is something shoto has never encountered before. But the purpose of phosphor is to null, like dabi it would take lots of attack from Phosphor to actually null it.

Natsu fire would not be cooking shoto here as it would act as a balance to shoto and stop him from getting hypothermia and frost bite therefore buying shoto spear time before he is out of the game.

Shoto can amp himself with ffhw (flash freeze heat wave) and he did that to blitz dabi in mha chapter 352. How does the light nullification works again? Doesn't it just absorbs light from a technique and stop or null the attack.

Shoto gave it to the usj nomu in the beginning of mha when shigaraki first attack and when the nomu captured all might and was forcing him inside kurugiri warp.

How does who decide it an element?

 

[SeijiSetto]

Their ap is not identical neither is the rest of their stats. Even if the gap between them ain't much, theirs still gap.

i know AP/dura isn't identical, i never said it was. i said the gap is so small it's irrelevant (that's what "for all intents and purposes" implies) so you shouldn't be relying on it as a major wincon for shoto.
speed is equal too.

Am not not misinterpreting anything here, but you most definitely aren't wrong in what you just said. The only problem with your answer is that it left some context behind. Now reread what he just said and you will see that am not wrong:

Stop disagreeing for the sake of it and actually read what I am saying. I’m not saying Natsu resists Shoto’s power null because he is technically able to eat something that can power null him, I’m saying that he can eat something that isn’t an element (even by FT’s bizarre and nigh-all encompassing standards), thus your ridiculous “counter” that Phosphor isn’t an “element” holds no water since it’s a proven fact that Dragon Slayers (and thus Natsu) can eat things that aren’t elements.

this whole paragraph is basically blank saying "even if phosphor isn't an element, dragon slayers (and thus natsu) can eat things that aren't elements"
ergo he can eat phosphor.

I like your sun example, so here's my answer. If the sun were to be small as a soccer ball yet hot as the real deal then I still shoto nulling. Why? I am fully aware that something of that magnitude is something shoto has never encountered before. But the purpose of phosphor is to null, like dabi it would take lots of attack from Phosphor to actually null it.

this is literally the peak definition of No-Limits Fallacy. "the purpose is to null fire so it can null any fire".
i brought up the sun example because it was intentionally ridiculous, and i didn't expect you to actually say "yeah shoto could turn off the sun [if it was small]" cuz that's deadass wrong.
shoto mixes his fire with his own cold to create phosphor, so how would he - using an ability powered by his own cold - be able to null/freeze things that are way hotter than anything he's shown to be able to freeze before?
if natsu's heat >>>>>> anything shown in MHA, shoto gets ham-roasted because you can only go off of what has been stated or shown.

Natsu fire would not be cooking shoto here as it would act as a balance to shoto and stop him from getting hypothermia and frost bite therefore buying shoto spear time before he is out of the game.

see above. if shoto has not been shown to be able to negate or cool anything on natsu's level of heat, then he cannot, and he gets cooked. it's that simple, there is no two ways about it.

How does the light nullification works again? Doesn't it just absorbs light from a technique and stop or null the attack.

you'd have to ask @AnonymousBlank (this won't ping him since users can't ping anyone)

How does who decide it an element?

you said this when addressing the possible wincon of "natsu eats phosphor gg"

Eating elements + magic > phosphor is neither of both but can be an element if shoto decided to.

you said phospor can be an element if shoto decides it. i'm asking you to clarify.

snip

summoning blank

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I never accused just you, if I remember correctly I said You ft debators. I was not calling only you out since you aren’t the only one here who brought a wincon here.

Tbf, I am like the only FT debater actually … ya know, debating here rn or for a while.

If you don't know what elements are then go watch avatar cause am not defining shit.

If you wanna go with the classical definition, how tf is fire and ice not an element?

Okay so are you agreeing with me on natsu not being able to eat phosphor or neh . This statement you made kind of imply that you kind of agree but also disagree:

I’m not saying Natsu resists Shoto’s power null because he is technically able to eat something that can power null him.

Oh I wholly disagree with Shoto being able to null Natsu’s flames entirely. Dampen them a bit? Sure, it’s still a cold element and basic physics means that it would lower Natsu’s temperature by default. My point with that (unless I’m misremembering the prelude to it) was that even if I were to work under the assumption that Shoto could null Natsu’s flames, Dragon Slayers have still been shown to eat things that power null them (or hit them with a whole bevy of side effects and status ailments) without issue just because they eat it.

Shoto page disagrees with me because shoto used Phosphor nullification + ice to fight dabi. Shoto was never going to use fire + Phosphor nullification against dabi. The main purpose of Phosphor existence is for shoto to create a body dabi couldn't burn and also nullify him.

You also have to take note of shoto mindset during that fight because dabi is his brother and shoto wouldn't go as far to kill him or just straight up outlast him by dodging dabi's attack.

Shoto practically nerfed himself to fight against dabi because we still know that he could have used fire + phosphor to damage dabi even more.

Yeah, I been wondering about that in the back of my mind this whole time. Why is Shoto using something that Dabi is explicitly more resistant to? There’s holding back but this is a whole other beast.

Also, shoto doesn’t only use phosphor in cqc. He has been shown to use Aegir in an explosion like manner. He basically covered a few kilometres by just throwing a punch in the air in and instant and it created a large dome. So Natsu can’t escape that if shoto decided to only use long range attacks.

You know my stance on this at this point.

Natsu flame being hotter than anything shoto has seen doesn’t still bale him out from getting nulled.

I’m curious about why this is. Kingofwolves specifically mentions that Dabi managed to negate the cold of Shoto’s initial Phosphor via heat and then Shoto nulls that later on. If Natsu’s fire is hotter than what Shoto has nulled before like I’m claiming, then doesn’t that mean that Shoto can’t null it based on the mechanics presented by MHA?

And your multiple way for natsu resisting necrosis doesn’t work. Shoto would break natsu bone once he has caught him in his necrosis because natsu only has resistance to cold temp and not internal freezing and him getting necrosis from there.

This is done via cold and the transmission of heat. For any internal freezing to occur, Shoto has to be producing a cold that surpasses Natsu’s flames by a considerable margin.

Even if natsu can absorb light and also null attack, it only a matter of time before shoto figures out what natsu is doing giving that Shoto’s also have gifted intelligence. Nothing would be stopping shoto from simply blitzing natsu since he has been shown to be able to blitz someone in the same speed category as him. Once shoto blitz natsu with his amp, he is more than capable of launching aegir and still null natsu.

X784 Natsu sniffing the air lets him counter a FTE blitz from Jellal in one of the first few arcs pre-timeskip. Said Natsu was comparable to CHC Erza in skill who outskilled Ikaruga who casually blitzed anything less than CHC Erza. The base Erza this Natsu is relative to goes from that to keeping up with NOS Cobra whose mind reading from 7 years ago lets him weave X784 Flight Armor Erza = X784 Racer who blitzed X784 Natsu.

X791 Natsu ~ SO Erza = Starry Heavens Erza =< NOS Cobra > X784 Cobra = Nirvana Erza = X784 Racer >>> Nirvana Natsu = 1st Meteor Jellal >>> Phantom-ToH Natsu = ToH CHC Erza >>> Ikaruga >>> Phantom Erza

Like I pointed out before, even with natsu resistance to cold temp, he still doesn't resist internal freezing and then getting the necrosis from their.

The things you are arguing are completely dependent on the cold to work. That’s like if you said X nulls Lightning from Y, me arguing the lightning-based paralysis and dura neg are still valid arguments despite their source having been shut down.

As for natsu fear manipulation, shoto was willing to fight afo who has fear manipulation till the point it causes illusion and also paralyse his opponent. Shoto could also face shigaraki who cause fear to mind control individuals. Fear manipulation is most definitely not a wincon here.

Crazy that none of that is on Shoto’s profile. Unless he can directly fight against or in the presence of said being when their fear hax is in effect, he doesn’t resist anything, especially fear hax that works on inanimate objects.

When did I not explain my stance? I would like to hear your reasoning behind this claim. If I remembered correctly, the one thing I have been doing is explaining my stance and giving reasons to why shoto wins. It not like I don't see natsu winning this, I actually think he can win this but he just has a lesser % rate at winning and your debate already proves that.

All you do is claim Phosphor nulls. Not even saying “well it has nulled fire/temperatures hotter” or anything like that. Even your post responding to Seiji has you saying it would null the sun if Shoto had the range to cover the sun The one time you actually explain your stance, it’s rife with NLF.

If am not missing anything here, this are natsu wincons and here are my counters.

Fire/heat shoto hasn’t before > both attacks would only warm shoto up and stop him from getting hypothermia.

Boy gets lit on fire but go off I guess.

Light absorption that null > Shoto would notice this due to his gifted intelligence and actually blitz natsu then launch aegir (shoto can blitz some one in the same speed category as him with amp)

Natsu has a scaling chain of countering blitzes with skill or his senses. Arguing Shoto blitzes also negates the point of this thread since it can’t be added at all due to Natsu being faster.

Fear manipulation > Shoto willing decided to fight afo despite knowing that afo has fear manipulation that gives illusion and causes some to get paralysed. He also faced shigaraki who could give fear to mind controlled liberation front.

Not on the profile.

Resistance to cold temperature > Shoto can use internal freezing on him and still give natsu necrosis in seconds and it would break natsu bones in half's.

He can’t give it to Natsu without the cold that is resisted.

Eating elements + magic > phosphor is neither of both but can be an element if shoto decided to.

Natsu ate Etherion which is a fusion of numerous elements. That > Phosphor. Dragon Slayers can eat Magic Barrier Particles which are neither an element or magic. That > Phosphor.

To sum things up, this key of natsu is pretty impressive but shoto hard counters him here and it doesn't help that shoto also has the superior stat advantage even though they are some what close in ap.

Shoto hard counters nothing and his “stat” advantage is irrelevant. Natsu getting the slightest bit annoyed removes that with ease.

How is me not wanting to define element give me a bad look? I already agreed natsu can eat element and lightning, and as thing currently stand phosphor is neither and natsu can't eat it with whatever logic you guys keep popping up with.

Because you claim Phosphor (fire+ice) =/= an element.

This being said after I had already established that Natsu ate Etherion (fire+a bunch of other magics including elements).

We seem to be in agreement that fire, ice, lightning etc all qualify as elements (correct me if I’m wrong) so even if we steelman Phosphor not being an element, why can Natsu not eat it despite having shown a better feat than eating the fusion of two elements since his 4th or 5th arc?

Am not not misinterpreting anything here, but you most definitely aren't wrong in what you just said. The only problem with your answer is that it left some context behind. Now reread what he just said and you will see that am not wrong:

Stop disagreeing for the sake of it and actually read what I am saying. I’m not saying Natsu resists Shoto’s power null because he is technically able to eat something that can power null him, I’m saying that he can eat something that isn’t an element (even by FT’s bizarre and nigh-all encompassing standards), thus your ridiculous “counter” that Phosphor isn’t an “element” holds no water since it’s a proven fact that Dragon Slayers (and thus Natsu) can eat things that aren’t elements.

Look at the one's that I curved. He never did disagree with me nor did he agree with me either. The only point he made here was that (even with natsu doesn’t eat phosphor or resist the null effect, natsu is still capable of eating lot of stuff and most aren’t element based.). I hope u see what am saying, am just trying to see if what he agree/disagree or am just getting some stuff he said wrongly. So yeah he was vague.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there for the sake of the argument. I felt I was pretty clear that I didn’t believe Natsu would be nulled.

I like your sun example, so here's my answer. If the sun were to be small as a soccer ball yet hot as the real deal then I still shoto nulling. Why? I am fully aware that something of that magnitude is something shoto has never encountered before. But the purpose of phosphor is to null, like dabi it would take lots of attack from Phosphor to actually null it.

Natsu fire would not be cooking shoto here as it would act as a balance to shoto and stop him from getting hypothermia and frost bite therefore buying shoto spear time before he is out of the game.

This would require Shoto’s cold being cold enough to counter Natsu’s heat, something it has not shown.

Shoto can amp himself with ffhw (flash freeze heat wave) and he did that to blitz dabi in mha chapter 352. How does the light nullification works again? Doesn't it just absorbs light from a technique and stop or null the attack.

Basically the darkness of his BFDM can be used to absorb things that produce light. Example for this would be Eclipse Leo (the one Natsu gets the ability from) vs Natsu where Natsu shoots fire at him and Leo just holds up his hand and absorbs the flames into the darkness, turning it into energy for him.

This is however, dependent on Natsu being able to put his black fire in the way of said “light” attack so if Shoto could theoretically pull off a blitz or hit Natsu where he would be unable to block with his darkness, the attack would still go through. Note it has been a few years since I watched the arc this is from so I could be wrong on the outmanoeuvring part working but this has been my belief of how it functions for the duration of this thread.

Obviously I don’t think Shoto can manage such which is why I think it shuts down Phosphor even if Phosphor could neg Natsu’s flames.

How does who decide it an element?

Depends on the context tbh. Like if the series that is dependent on what “element” something is subscribed to the periodic table to define an element, that’s what we would go with. If they go with classical element systems like Avatar, YGO, Pokemon typing to an extent or what have you, we go with that.

I was asking because your argument against Phosphor getting eaten was contingent on it not being an “element” so I wanted to see what your definition of the word for this match up was so that we could resolve the issue.

summoning blank

Bro did not know I was already here typing up a response.

 

[Danny33wise]

Tbf, I am like the only FT debater actually … ya know, debating here rn or for a while.

If you wanna go with the classical definition, how tf is fire and ice not an element?

Oh I wholly disagree with Shoto being able to null Natsu’s flames entirely. Dampen them a bit? Sure, it’s still a cold element and basic physics means that it would lower Natsu’s temperature by default. My point with that (unless I’m misremembering the prelude to it) was that even if I were to work under the assumption that Shoto could null Natsu’s flames, Dragon Slayers have still been shown to eat things that power null them (or hit them with a whole bevy of side effects and status ailments) without issue just because they eat it.

Yeah, I been wondering about that in the back of my mind this whole time. Why is Shoto using something that Dabi is explicitly more resistant to? There’s holding back but this is a whole other beast.

You know my stance on this at this point.

I’m curious about why this is. Kingofwolves specifically mentions that Dabi managed to negate the cold of Shoto’s initial Phosphor via heat and then Shoto nulls that later on. If Natsu’s fire is hotter than what Shoto has nulled before like I’m claiming, then doesn’t that mean that Shoto can’t null it based on the mechanics presented by MHA?

This is done via cold and the transmission of heat. For any internal freezing to occur, Shoto has to be producing a cold that surpasses Natsu’s flames by a considerable margin.

X784 Natsu sniffing the air lets him counter a FTE blitz from Jellal in one of the first few arcs pre-timeskip. Said Natsu was comparable to CHC Erza in skill who outskilled Ikaruga who casually blitzed anything less than CHC Erza. The base Erza this Natsu is relative to goes from that to keeping up with NOS Cobra whose mind reading from 7 years ago lets him weave X784 Flight Armor Erza = X784 Racer who blitzed X784 Natsu.

X791 Natsu ~ SO Erza = Starry Heavens Erza =< NOS Cobra > X784 Cobra = Nirvana Erza = X784 Racer >>> Nirvana Natsu = 1st Meteor Jellal >>> Phantom-ToH Natsu = ToH CHC Erza >>> Ikaruga >>> Phantom Erza

The things you are arguing are completely dependent on the cold to work. That’s like if you said X nulls Lightning from Y, me arguing the lightning-based paralysis and dura neg are still valid arguments despite their source having been shut down.

Crazy that none of that is on Shoto’s profile. Unless he can directly fight against or in the presence of said being when their fear hax is in effect, he doesn’t resist anything, especially fear hax that works on inanimate objects.

All you do is claim Phosphor nulls. Not even saying “well it has nulled fire/temperatures hotter” or anything like that. Even your post responding to Seiji has you saying it would null the sun if Shoto had the range to cover the sun The one time you actually explain your stance, it’s rife with NLF.

Boy gets lit on fire but go off I guess.

Natsu has a scaling chain of countering blitzes with skill or his senses. Arguing Shoto blitzes also negates the point of this thread since it can’t be added at all due to Natsu being faster.

Not on the profile.

He can’t give it to Natsu without the cold that is resisted.

Natsu ate Etherion which is a fusion of numerous elements. That > Phosphor. Dragon Slayers can eat Magic Barrier Particles which are neither an element or magic. That > Phosphor.

Shoto hard counters nothing and his “stat” advantage is irrelevant. Natsu getting the slightest bit annoyed removes that with ease.

Because you claim Phosphor (fire+ice) =/= an element.

This being said after I had already established that Natsu ate Etherion (fire+a bunch of other magics including elements).

We seem to be in agreement that fire, ice, lightning etc all qualify as elements (correct me if I’m wrong) so even if we steelman Phosphor not being an element, why can Natsu not eat it despite having shown a better feat than eating the fusion of two elements since his 4th or 5th arc?

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there for the sake of the argument. I felt I was pretty clear that I didn’t believe Natsu would be nulled.

This would require Shoto’s cold being cold enough to counter Natsu’s heat, something it has not shown.

Basically the darkness of his BFDM can be used to absorb things that produce light. Example for this would be Eclipse Leo (the one Natsu gets the ability from) vs Natsu where Natsu shoots fire at him and Leo just holds up his hand and absorbs the flames into the darkness, turning it into energy for him.

This is however, dependent on Natsu being able to put his black fire in the way of said “light” attack so if Shoto could theoretically pull off a blitz or hit Natsu where he would be unable to block with his darkness, the attack would still go through. Note it has been a few years since I watched the arc this is from so I could be wrong on the outmanoeuvring part working but this has been my belief of how it functions for the duration of this thread.

Obviously I don’t think Shoto can manage such which is why I think it shuts down Phosphor even if Phosphor could neg Natsu’s flames.

Depends on the context tbh. Like if the series that is dependent on what “element” something is subscribed to the periodic table to define an element, that’s what we would go with. If they go with classical element systems like Avatar, YGO, Pokemon typing to an extent or what have you, we go with that.

I was asking because your argument against Phosphor getting eaten was contingent on it not being an “element” so I wanted to see what your definition of the word for this match up was so that we could resolve the issue.

Bro did not know I was already here typing up a response.

Gonna rush type this because am not gonna come back in my free time.

There's no classic definition here. If we wanted to go that route it would be really confusing because how the hell does mixing fire and ice grant you a technique like phosphor and it also null fire. Like shouldn't the mixture of shoto quirk just give him water.

Stop bringing up the same argument over again. I already told u that phosphor is an entirely different thing from shoto natural fire and ice. Shoto is not radiating to much cold to null fire. Him using using cold rather than hot to fight dabi is due to him not wanting to hurt dabi even more than dabi is already doing to himself.

I know the creation on phosphor doesn't make much sense if you put in much thought to it. Even in the volume cover where horikoshi left some explanation on phosphor he didn’t give that much info except it was done through fusionism to create something that can nullify.

The creation of phosphor doesn't make much sense but most science in fiction don't make sense. And I already agreed with you on natsu being able to eat stuff not elemental related like magic.

Yep king was right. Anytime shoto hit dabi with phosphor it always negate all dabi flames but dabi like the fire psychopath that he is would continously buff his flames and it also doesn't help that dude has been resisting death since he was 13 and can't feel pain anymore.

Dabi was nulled and knocked out when shoto used aegir for the first time on him. But he later powered back up by copying shoto technique and we later got an explanation that he had a quirk awakening and now has ice now. Dabi did not brush off shoto attack he did null him but dabi has rage power to the point he resists death so he kept bouncing back up and powering.

Dabi copying phosphor was a literally stupid idea since it kind of buffed him up till the point that he was quickly turning into a skeleton real quick since the method of using phosphor requires you using your organs.

To put things straight and simple, any technique shoto used with phosphor did null dabi but he kept on powering up with rage power/supernatural will power till he was fully negated. This is why i said before that natsu is not gonna be fully nulled by one attack.

Natsu flames are gonna get nulled even if it's hotter than anything shoto has seen before. And as for the necrosis, shoto could still give natsu necrosis once he fully neg him via nulling his fire or freezing him from an open part of his body like his mouth or nose. This would still give natsu hypothermia and necrosis.

My source haven't been debunked yet, if it has why don't you make a list or something about how my source has been shot down by you because last time I checked, nothing of that sort has happened here.

The fear hax was in effect. The whole reason bakugo has resistance to it is because of him being able to continue fighting despite being in kamino where afo fear effect took place. Shoto and deku where still there and they where able to device a plan to save bakugo.

At first all of them where scared including most heroes and bakugo, but they where later able to pull through. Even currently in the beginning of the 2nd war arc, most heroes are scared of fighting villains. It was shoto victory against dabi that inspired all other heroes to go plus ultra and do their best. Fear manipulation is not a wincon against shoto.

About the sun being the size of a ball. Remember that this is a "what if" scenario. If my theory on phosphor being a flame retardant that null, the sun shouldn't be able to burn shoto since phosphor neg both heat and fire and if shoto is capable of hitting the ball sized sun multiple time it should neg it by the constant decrease from it original temperature.

Are you aware that in other debating such as comicvine, reddit, fan verse and so many more have called shoto with phosphor immune to fire (not that it should bother anything here since I don't think that). But what it does imply is that most people have different interpretation on what exactly phosphor is. Because horikoshi explanation doesn’t explain much on this.

Shoto can pull a blitz on natsu because it something that would come unexpectedly. Dabi couldn't react because it was an element of surprise and shoto closed the gap between then nearly in an instant.

Natsu has zero win con against shoto and am beginning to think this match is leaning to an actual stomp in favor of shoto.

All natsu wincon get countered by shoto being better than him in this key and like I said before your argument keeps on proving this as you continously proved that you wan to make Phosphor an element so it would be fair fight.

I already agreed with you on natsu being able to eat other stuff like magic lol. And I doubt that the fusion of element natsu ate brought out a non elemental stuff like phosphor.

Even if I should agree that natsu can eat the eat phosphor, he would only be eating the ice property and not the main nulling effect because as I have explained to you, Phosphor is a whole lot different from traditional ice and fire. Shoto merge his quirk together to create something entirely different from ice and fire (phosphor), even the name of what he created should logically tell you that phosphor is not your traditional element.

It doesn't that you are constantly contradicting yourself just to debunk a fact. First you would call phosphor and element then later on you try and prove that natsu can it non element like phosphor. Make up your mind bro.

It pretty obvious that you are trying to debunk stuff that you yourself don't even understand. And anyone seeing this debate would know that you have always been put on a defence while I have been the one on the attacking end.

Like most of your debate have only 3 or 4 point and a wincon that shoto already countered. You keep on repeating yourself and going in circles .

I'd your argument isn't natsu can eat other elements, then it is natsu can it stuff not that aren’t elements. If it not that then darkness that absorbs light which I have already countered and now it is fear manipulation.

I know I have been doing something similar to this but that is because shoto hard counters natsu and actually has a wincon for this. You literally haven’t pointed out any effective way for natsu winning this because he can't.

Shoto obviously has the advantage here and that is why someone here said natsu key should be changed. Either way shoto chances of winning far outweigh natsu chances.

 

[SeijiSetto]

The fear hax was in effect. The whole reason bakugo has resistance to it is because of him being able to continue fighting despite being in kamino where afo fear effect took place. Shoto and deku where still there and they where able to device a plan to save bakugo.

At first all of them where scared including most heroes and bakugo, but they where later able to pull through. Even currently in the beginning of the 2nd war arc, most heroes are scared of fighting villains. It was shoto victory against dabi that inspired all other heroes to go plus ultra and do their best. Fear manipulation is not a wincon against shoto.

shoto doesn't have resistance to fear hax on the profile
if he did it in the story you should make a CRT to change that.

About the sun being the size of a ball. Remember that this is a "what if" scenario. If my theory on phosphor being a flame retardant that null, the sun shouldn't be able to burn shoto since phosphor neg both heat and fire and if shoto is capable of hitting the ball sized sun multiple time it should neg it by the constant decrease from it original temperature.

Natsu flames are gonna get nulled even if it's hotter than anything shoto has seen before. And as for the necrosis, shoto could still give natsu necrosis once he fully neg him via nulling his fire or freezing him from an open part of his body like his mouth or nose. This would still give natsu hypothermia and necrosis.

i intentionally brought up the sun because i expected your argument to fold, not to say "well phosphor nulls fire so it would be able to null the sun"
abilities only work on what they have been shown to work on.
unless there's an explicit statement in the story that says shoto can nullify ANY fire no matter the temperature, then he should only be able to nullify what he has been shown to - natsu's heat is hotter, so it won't nullify.
the fact that you call it "your theory" instead of what has been shown in the story is rather telling anyway.

Are you aware that in other debating such as comicvine, reddit, fan verse and so many more have called shoto with phosphor immune to fire (not that it should bother anything here since I don't think that). But what it does imply is that most people have different interpretation on what exactly phosphor is. Because horikoshi explanation doesn’t explain much on this.

doesn't matter since we aren't on there
what they think doesn't matter since we're on VSBW and we use VSBW profiles, i do not see why you felt the need to mention it

Natsu has zero win con against shoto and am beginning to think this match is leaning to an actual stomp in favor of shoto.

All natsu wincon get countered by shoto being better than him in this key and like I said before your argument keeps on proving this as you continously proved that you wan to make Phosphor an element so it would be fair fight.

"zero wincons"

Natsu eats Phosphor, entirely negates fire, resists ice and can wash Shoto in CQC, then yeah that's a stomp for him. No other options.

Like most of your debate have only 3 or 4 point and a wincon that shoto already countered. You keep on repeating yourself and going in circles .

I'd your argument isn't natsu can eat other elements, then it is natsu can it stuff not that aren’t elements. If it not that then darkness that absorbs light which I have already countered and now it is fear manipulation.

I know I have been doing something similar to this but that is because shoto hard counters natsu and actually has a wincon for this. You literally haven’t pointed out any effective way for natsu winning this because he can't.

Shoto obviously has the advantage here and that is why someone here said natsu key should be changed. Either way shoto chances of winning far outweigh natsu chances.

their AP is nearly identical, natsu has rage/emotion amps that make him stronger and faster
i haven't read fairy tail (as i mentioned earlier) so i'm not gonna get into skill debates but i believe natsu is more skilled, so if it comes down to blows shoto is dying.
shoto can't use his fire because natsu's immune.
his ice gets resisted apparently since natsu has been covered in snow far colder than what shoto's ice has been shown to do
phosphor either gets eaten OR natsu just blows through it via his flames being far hotter than anything shoto's ever been shown to freeze

what the fvck does shoto actually do here, this is why rusty asked if it was a stomp or not.

if it wasn't clear already, i vote natsu.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Gonna rush type this because am not gonna come back in my free time.

There's no classic definition here. If we wanted to go that route it would be really confusing because how the hell does mixing fire and ice grant you a technique like phosphor and it also null fire. Like shouldn't the mixture of shoto quirk just give him water.

Bro does not even know what Classical Elements are. There very much is a classical definition for what an element is, it’s that everything is made up of water, earth, fire, air and ether. That’s the whole reason why games, fiction, shows, books etc treat said things as elements.

Stop bringing up the same argument over again. I already told u that phosphor is an entirely different thing from shoto natural fire and ice. Shoto is not radiating to much cold to null fire. Him using using cold rather than hot to fight dabi is due to him not wanting to hurt dabi even more than dabi is already doing to himself.

Exactly, you keep saying it. You don’t prove it with the very profile you are meant to be arguing with disagrees.

I know the creation on phosphor doesn't make much sense if you put in much thought to it. Even in the volume cover where horikoshi left some explanation on phosphor he didn’t give that much info except it was done through fusionism to create something that can nullify.

The creation of phosphor doesn't make much sense but most science in fiction don't make sense. And I already agreed with you on natsu being able to eat stuff not elemental related like magic.

Then you agree Natsu can eat Phosphor, thereby negating its effects and gaining them for himself. Aka, the one thing you’ve been arguing as a wincon for Shoto no longer works.

Yep king was right. Anytime shoto hit dabi with phosphor it always negate all dabi flames but dabi like the fire psychopath that he is would continously buff his flames and it also doesn't help that dude has been resisting death since he was 13 and can't feel pain anymore.

Dabi was nulled and knocked out when shoto used aegir for the first time on him. But he later powered back up by copying shoto technique and we later got an explanation that he had a quirk awakening and now has ice now. Dabi did not brush off shoto attack he did null him but dabi has rage power to the point he resists death so he kept bouncing back up and powering.

Dabi copying phosphor was a literally stupid idea since it kind of buffed him up till the point that he was quickly turning into a skeleton real quick since the method of using phosphor requires you using your organs.

To put things straight and simple, any technique shoto used with phosphor did null dabi but he kept on powering up with rage power/supernatural will power till he was fully negated. This is why i said before that natsu is not gonna be fully nulled by one attack.

Natsu flames are gonna get nulled even if it's hotter than anything shoto has seen before.

… so if Dabi is able to increase his temperature to reach a point that his fire is too hot for Phosphor to null, how tf are you still saying it nulls Natsu when you won’t even contest my claim of Natsu’s fire > anything in MHA?

And as for the necrosis, shoto could still give natsu necrosis once he fully neg him via nulling his fire or freezing him from an open part of his body like his mouth or nose. This would still give natsu hypothermia and necrosis.

And you still have no clue how thermodynamics work. Natsu can’t get hypothermia or necrosis when his passive body temperature undergoes no change in ice cold enough to resist temperatures far in excess of lightning.

My source haven't been debunked yet, if it has why don't you make a list or something about how my source has been shot down by you because last time I checked, nothing of that sort has happened here.

Make a new list? Hell nah. Go and actually read anything I have posted before this. I ain’t wasting my time typing that shit out again.

The fear hax was in effect. The whole reason bakugo has resistance to it is because of him being able to continue fighting despite being in kamino where afo fear effect took place. Shoto and deku where still there and they where able to device a plan to save bakugo.

At first all of them where scared including most heroes and bakugo, but they where later able to pull through. Even currently in the beginning of the 2nd war arc, most heroes are scared of fighting villains. It was shoto victory against dabi that inspired all other heroes to go plus ultra and do their best. Fear manipulation is not a wincon against shoto.

You … do know Bakugo doesn’t have resistance to fear manip on his profile right? Neither he nor Shoto have it.

About the sun being the size of a ball. Remember that this is a "what if" scenario. If my theory on phosphor being a flame retardant that null, the sun shouldn't be able to burn shoto since phosphor neg both heat and fire and if shoto is capable of hitting the ball sized sun multiple time it should neg it by the constant decrease from it original temperature.

Joy, you actually admit that you’ve been arguing headcanon this whole time. We all knew but it’s nice to see you are at least somewhat self aware.

Are you aware that in other debating such as comicvine, reddit, fan verse and so many more have called shoto with phosphor immune to fire (not that it should bother anything here since I don't think that). But what it does imply is that most people have different interpretation on what exactly phosphor is. Because horikoshi explanation doesn’t explain much on this.

And? Not only do other battle boards not matter here, those are opinions. I’m asking for actual facts. If I was dumb enough to accept opinions, I’d also think G5 Luffy is more iconic than SSJ Goku. People can believe whatever they want about a topic but when it comes to debating, the only thing that matters is what happens in official material.

Shoto can pull a blitz on natsu because it something that would come unexpectedly. Dabi couldn't react because it was an element of surprise and shoto closed the gap between then nearly in an instant.

Did you miss the scaling chain of countering blitzes Natsu scales above via his nose alone? Blitzes where it isn’t due to Natsu being “caught off guard” but legitimate blitzes where he explicitly can’t even perceive his opponent even when on guard and aware it’s going to happen.

Natsu has zero win con against shoto and am beginning to think this match is leaning to an actual stomp in favor of shoto.

All natsu wincon get countered by shoto being better than him in this key and like I said before your argument keeps on proving this as you continously proved that you wan to make Phosphor an element so it would be fair fight.

I already agreed with you on natsu being able to eat other stuff like magic lol. And I doubt that the fusion of element natsu ate brought out a non elemental stuff like phosphor.

Even if I should agree that natsu can eat the eat phosphor, he would only be eating the ice property and not the main nulling effect because as I have explained to you, Phosphor is a whole lot different from traditional ice and fire. Shoto merge his quirk together to create something entirely different from ice and fire (phosphor), even the name of what he created should logically tell you that phosphor is not your traditional element.

It doesn't that you are constantly contradicting yourself just to debunk a fact. First you would call phosphor and element then later on you try and prove that natsu can it non element like phosphor. Make up your mind bro.

Gods you’re an idiot. I’m not contradicting myself you clown. Do you even know what steelman means? What I’m doing is proving that it doesn’t matter whether or not Phosphor is an “element” by your undefined standards, Natsu can still eat that shit either way. The only reason why I’m even bothering to ask for your definition of an element is because you keep using it as a reason for why Natsu can’t eat Phosphor.

It pretty obvious that you are trying to debunk stuff that you yourself don't even understand.

Oh the ******* irony. The only thing here that I struggle to understand is your grammar.

And anyone seeing this debate would know that you have always been put on a defence while I have been the one on the attacking end.

And now you’re acting like a debate is a fight. It’s not. It’s a discussion. Something you refuse to engage in. But let’s pretend there is an “attack” or “defense” in this for a second, how is me constantly trying to get you to define the terminology you are using, actually reading and using the profile you are arguing for that disagrees with your claims, constantly bringing more and more arguments and wincons (none of which have been debunked or even countered) etc etc translating to “being on the defense” in your mind? That’s not to say that you are on the defense here since being on the defense would actually require you to defend your position.

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that I am the only one engaging you on every new, dumbass point you try to bring up and thoroughly counter it. You on the other hand refuse to actually broach anything I have brought up in opposition of your own “wincons” and just keep insisting you are correct.

Like most of your debate have only 3 or 4 point and a wincon that shoto already countered. You keep on repeating yourself and going in circles .

I'd your argument isn't natsu can eat other elements, then it is natsu can it stuff not that aren’t elements. If it not that then darkness that absorbs light which I have already countered and now it is fear manipulation.

Yup, you aren’t even reading my posts. Natsu can eat elements and non-elements, darkness manip was something I brought up from the very start to prove a point that even if (and that’s the biggest if ever) Shoto could null Natsu, he still absorbs the only thing available to Shoto, and the fear manip was me humouring your dumbass claim that I haven’t brought up a wincon that works.

I know I have been doing something similar to this but that is because shoto hard counters natsu and actually has a wincon for this. You literally haven’t pointed out any effective way for natsu winning this because he can't.

I have, you just can’t it see past Shoto’s dick in your mouth.

Shoto obviously has the advantage here and that is why someone here said natsu key should be changed. Either way shoto chances of winning far outweigh natsu chances.

Let’s look at everyone’s takes on this thread besides us.

Rusty is asking if this is a stomp even though he knows Shoto, Seiji doesn’t know FT and likely MHA either and yet is convinced by my arguments, the MHA defenders have basically abandoned this thread after counters were brought up against their points, said defenders disagree with your take on Phosphor while FT debaters agree with my arguments, speedster is the one person who agrees with you (sorry speed but I couldn’t resist lol) etc.

That means there is three ways this goes down.

1. I’m correct (which I am) based on the fact Seiji is more convinced by my arguments and that you can’t even comprehend my points.
2. I’m wrong and Seiji must be a complete moron of the highest degree to be convinced by me and disagreeing with your oh so superior argument (that’s sarcasm just in case you couldn’t tell) or
3. I’m wrong but your argumentation sucks so much ass that even though you are correct, nobody agrees with you.

@TheRustyOne Please just close this thread already. Even Danny thinks it’s a stomp despite the fact he’s got it the wrong way round.

 

[Danny33wise]

Bro does not even know what Classical Elements are. There very much is a classical definition for what an element is, it’s that everything is made up of water, earth, fire, air and ether. That’s the whole reason why games, fiction, shows, books etc treat said things as elements.

Exactly, you keep saying it. You don’t prove it with the very profile you are meant to be arguing with disagrees.

Then you agree Natsu can eat Phosphor, thereby negating its effects and gaining them for himself. Aka, the one thing you’ve been arguing as a wincon for Shoto no longer works.

… so if Dabi is able to increase his temperature to reach a point that his fire is too hot for Phosphor to null, how tf are you still saying it nulls Natsu when you won’t even contest my claim of Natsu’s fire > anything in MHA?

And you still have no clue how thermodynamics work. Natsu can’t get hypothermia or necrosis when his passive body temperature undergoes no change in ice cold enough to resist temperatures far in excess of lightning.

Make a new list? Hell nah. Go and actually read anything I have posted before this. I ain’t wasting my time typing that shit out again.

You … do know Bakugo doesn’t have resistance to fear manip on his profile right? Neither he nor Shoto have it.

Joy, you actually admit that you’ve been arguing headcanon this whole time. We all knew but it’s nice to see you are at least somewhat self aware.

And? Not only do other battle boards not matter here, those are opinions. I’m asking for actual facts. If I was dumb enough to accept opinions, I’d also think G5 Luffy is more iconic than SSJ Goku. People can believe whatever they want about a topic but when it comes to debating, the only thing that matters is what happens in official material.

Did you miss the scaling chain of countering blitzes Natsu scales above via his nose alone? Blitzes where it isn’t due to Natsu being “caught off guard” but legitimate blitzes where he explicitly can’t even perceive his opponent even when on guard and aware it’s going to happen.

Gods you’re an idiot. I’m not contradicting myself you clown. Do you even know what steelman means? What I’m doing is proving that it doesn’t matter whether or not Phosphor is an “element” by your undefined standards, Natsu can still eat that shit either way. The only reason why I’m even bothering to ask for your definition of an element is because you keep using it as a reason for why Natsu can’t eat Phosphor.

Oh the ******* irony. The only thing here that I struggle to understand is your grammar.

And now you’re acting like a debate is a fight. It’s not. It’s a discussion. Something you refuse to engage in. But let’s pretend there is an “attack” or “defense” in this for a second, how is me constantly trying to get you to define the terminology you are using, actually reading and using the profile you are arguing for that disagrees with your claims, constantly bringing more and more arguments and wincons (none of which have been debunked or even countered) etc etc translating to “being on the defense” in your mind? That’s not to say that you are on the defense here since being on the defense would actually require you to defend your position.

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that I am the only one engaging you on every new, dumbass point you try to bring up and thoroughly counter it. You on the other hand refuse to actually broach anything I have brought up in opposition of your own “wincons” and just keep insisting you are correct.

Yup, you aren’t even reading my posts. Natsu can eat elements and non-elements, darkness manip was something I brought up from the very start to prove a point that even if (and that’s the biggest if ever) Shoto could null Natsu, he still absorbs the only thing available to Shoto, and the fear manip was me humouring your dumbass claim that I haven’t brought up a wincon that works.

I have, you just can’t it see past Shoto’s dick in your mouth.

Let’s look at everyone’s takes on this thread besides us.

Rusty is asking if this is a stomp even though he knows Shoto, Seiji doesn’t know FT and likely MHA either and yet is convinced by my arguments, the MHA defenders have basically abandoned this thread after counters were brought up against their points, said defenders disagree with your take on Phosphor while FT debaters agree with my arguments, speedster is the one person who agrees with you (sorry speed but I couldn’t resist lol) etc.

That means there is three ways this goes down.

1. I’m correct (which I am) based on the fact Seiji is more convinced by my arguments and that you can’t even comprehend my points.
2. I’m wrong and Seiji must be a complete moron of the highest degree to be convinced by me and disagreeing with your oh so superior argument (that’s sarcasm just in case you couldn’t tell) or
3. I’m wrong but your argumentation sucks so much ass that even though you are correct, nobody agrees with you.

@TheRustyOne Please just close this thread already. Even Danny thinks it’s a stomp despite the fact he’s got it the wrong way round.

Now I see that u are completely reading the opposite of what I said lol. I would like to point out your mistakes starting from the 1st.

1.) You completely ignored my question and started going on about elements in other fictions in other fiction. I literally asked you this (Q) how the he'll would mixing to element together grant you phosphor? And you answered with this (A) Bro does not even know what Classical Elements are. There very much is a classical definition for what an element is, it’s that everything is made up of water, earth, fire, air and ether. That’s the whole reason why games, fiction, shows, books etc treat said things as elements.

Literally you can't even prove phosphor is an element and started going off point. It doesn't help that Shoto technique works like the real life thing which is not an element. You simply can't debunk fact.

Exactly, you keep saying it. You don’t prove it with the very profile you are meant to be arguing with disagrees.

Literally this is not a counter argument. Shoto profile doesn't state that he could give others hypothermia or necrosis but he can. Shoto profile doesn't state that he can is will power but I rusty or king already pointed out he has this. Literally some of the stuff you pulled out for natsu aren't even on his profile either. You debunked nothing here.

Then you agree Natsu can eat Phosphor, thereby negating its effects and gaining them for himself. Aka, the one thing you’ve been arguing as a wincon for Shoto no longer works.

I never agreed with you on anything here. I specifically said That I agree on natsu being able to eat stuff not element related like MAGIC. I didn't agree on natsu eating Phosphor.

so if Dabi is able to increase his temperature to reach a point that his fire is too hot for Phosphor to null, how tf are you still saying it nulls Natsu when you won’t even contest my claim of Natsu’s fire > anything in MHA?

At this point it is pretty much questionable if you read my reply with an open. I literally gave you a longer explanation and a shorter ones on how thing escalated:

To put things straight and simple, any technique shoto used with phosphor did null dabi but he kept on powering up with rage power/supernatural will power till he was fully negated. This is why i said before that natsu is not gonna be fully nulled by one attack.

I told you here ^^^ that dabi was nulled anytime that shoto attacked him with phosphor but dabi kept on powering up but was eventually nulled. I even told you it would take more than one strike to null Natsu.

And you still have no clue how thermodynamics work. Natsu can’t get hypothermia or necrosis when his passive body temperature undergoes no change in ice cold enough to resist temperatures far in excess of lightning.

Natsu can get this if he is nulled, I told you this multiple times now and you kept on playing ignorance. I also told that if that doesn't work shoto could freeze him from his mouth which would also freeze his organs and still give him necrosis. You aren’t reading anything here lol, you are literally just spamming anything that enters your head.

Make a new list? Hell nah. Go and actually read anything I have posted before this. I ain’t wasting my time typing that shit out again.

I actually just went back and did this but u literally have zero counter argument then and even now.

You … do know Bakugo doesn’t have resistance to fear manip on his profile right? Neither he nor Shoto have it.

Bakugo has go back and check, it is like a 2 in 1 profile. The key you are looking at is his ofa key and not all out war.

Joy, you actually admit that you’ve been arguing headcanon this whole time. We all knew but it’s nice to see you are at least somewhat self aware.

Go back and reread my comment lol. I never told you anything about it being head Canon. All I said was straight forward and simple. As we don't know what phosphor is. I even gave you an example on how other site people misinterpret it for shoto being completely immune to all forms of heat/fire.

those are opinions. I’m asking for actual facts. If I was dumb enough to accept opinions, I’d also think G5 Luffy is more iconic than SSJ Goku. People can believe whatever they want about a topic but when it comes to debating, the only thing that matters is what happens in official material.

I do hope you know that I only brought out all those site and their opinions so you can see that most people have their own interpretation on what it is due to limited info. So their opinion doesn't need to bother you or anything. But from what we've been debating so far, I can fully say that your knowledge on mha is minimal to non existence.

Did you miss the scaling chain of countering blitzes Natsu scales above via his nose alone? Blitzes where it isn’t due to Natsu being “caught off guard” but legitimate blitzes where he explicitly can’t even perceive his opponent even when on guard and aware it’s going to happen.

I saw your scaling. That doesn't help what we are debating and you already proved my point by saying this:

Blitzes where it isn’t due to Natsu being “caught off guard” but legitimate blitzes where he explicitly can’t even perceive his opponent even when on guard and aware it’s going to happen.

This simply means that natsu knows what's coming. Meanwhile we have shoto whose blitz would be unexpected. Meaning that Shoto could be fighting natsu ant the same speed but just perform a blitz. This would literally catch natsu off guard and no scaling chain of yours is about to change that.

Gods you’re an idiot. I’m not contradicting myself you clown. Do you even know what steelman means? What I’m doing is proving that it doesn’t matter whether or not Phosphor is an “element” by your undefined standards, Natsu can still eat that shit either way. The only reason why I’m even bothering to ask for your definition of an element is because you keep using it as a

Do refrain yourself from throwing insult at me because if I were to strike back I wouldn't just be calling only you out.

I would like proof of natsu eating something non magical related to even slightly believe anything that just came out of u.

Oh the ******* irony. The only thing here that I struggle to understand is your grammar.

All this statement prove is that you can’t read.

And now you’re acting like a debate is a fight. It’s not. It’s a discussion. Something you refuse to engage in. But let’s pretend there is an “attack” or “defense” in this for a second, how is me constantly trying to get you to define the terminology you are using, actually reading and using the profile you are arguing for that disagrees with your claims, constantly bringing more and more arguments and wincons (none of which have been debunked or even countered) etc etc translating to “being on the defense” in your mind? That’s not to say that you are on the defense here since being on the defense would actually require you to defend your position.

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that I am the only one engaging you on every new, dumbass point you try to bring up and thoroughly counter it. You on the other hand refuse to actually broach anything I have brought up in opposition of your own “wincons” and just keep insisting you are correct.

What are you even saying now . You literally just spamming things again. You are on a defence because you simply can't counter my arguments. You have continously taken L after L which at this point is getting boring.

You are on a defence because of your inability to bring a viable wincon or how said wincon could be used tactically in a battle.

You are on a defence for failing to see that natsu rarely has anything going for him here and through out this battle I have been the one bringing out point.

You are on a defence for failing to see how frail your argument really is and how we barely talk about natsu in this thread. Our main debate resolves around shoto and how you can stop him from winning.

If only you open your eyes to see this fact.

Yup, you aren’t even reading my posts. Natsu can eat elements and non-elements, darkness manip was something I brought up from the very start to prove a point that even if (and that’s the biggest if ever) Shoto could null Natsu, he still absorbs the only thing available to Shoto, and the fear manip was me humouring your dumbass claim that I haven’t brought up a wincon that works.

I am reading you point lol. You keep on proving how right I am from how our debate is going and do you know how I know that?

I know this because you literally kept on making the same mistake every time. You said this again:

Natsu can eat elements and non-elements, darkness manip was something I brought up from the very start to prove a point that even if (and that’s the biggest if ever)

You've once again brought a power that is related to magic from ft verse as proof for him being able to eat phosphor. I already told u that I agree on natsu being able to eat stuff magic related.

As For aabsorption, nothing is stopping shoto from performing a blitz once ge figures that out. He would smack natsu with phosphor.

Let’s look at everyone’s takes on this thread besides us.

Rusty is asking if this is a stomp even though he knows Shoto, Seiji doesn’t know FT and likely MHA either and yet is convinced by my arguments, the MHA defenders have basically abandoned this thread after counters were brought up against their points, said defenders disagree with your take on Phosphor while FT debaters agree with my arguments, speedster is the one person who agrees with you (sorry speed but I couldn’t resist lol) etc.

That means there is three ways this goes down.

1. I’m correct (which I am) based on the fact Seiji is more convinced by my arguments and that you can’t even comprehend my points.
2. I’m wrong and Seiji must be a complete moron of the highest degree to be convinced by me and disagreeing with your oh so superior argument (that’s sarcasm just in case you couldn’t tell) or
3. I’m wrong but your argumentation sucks so much ass that even though you are correct, nobody agrees with you.

If this helps you sleep at night. You literally said nothing of any importance here

 

[Danny33wise]

shoto doesn't have resistance to fear hax on the profile
if he did it in the story you should make a CRT to change that.


i intentionally brought up the sun because i expected your argument to fold, not to say "well phosphor nulls fire so it would be able to null the sun"
abilities only work on what they have been shown to work on.
unless there's an explicit statement in the story that says shoto can nullify ANY fire no matter the temperature, then he should only be able to nullify what he has been shown to - natsu's heat is hotter, so it won't nullify.
the fact that you call it "your theory" instead of what has been shown in the story is rather telling anyway.

doesn't matter since we aren't on there
what they think doesn't matter since we're on VSBW and we use VSBW profiles, i do not see why you felt the need to mention it

"zero wincons"



their AP is nearly identical, natsu has rage/emotion amps that make him stronger and faster
i haven't read fairy tail (as i mentioned earlier) so i'm not gonna get into skill debates but i believe natsu is more skilled, so if it comes down to blows shoto is dying.
shoto can't use his fire because natsu's immune.
his ice gets resisted apparently since natsu has been covered in snow far colder than what shoto's ice has been shown to do
phosphor either gets eaten OR natsu just blows through it via his flames being far hotter than anything shoto's ever been shown to freeze

what the fvck does shoto actually do here, this is why rusty asked if it was a stomp or not.

if it wasn't clear already, i vote natsu.

You didn't say anything worth my time here and as your fellow supporters anonymous already said you know nothing on both verses and it would be pointless prolonging a debate with you.

 

[SeijiSetto]

You didn't say anything worth my time here and as your fellow supporters anonymous already said you know nothing on both verses and it would be pointless prolonging a debate with you.

prove shoto's phosphor can null things beyond what his ice has shown.
you said he could null the sun if he had the range, so prove that.

if you cannot, then natsu's fire - being hotter than anything showed in MHA - will not be negated by phosphor because it's too hot for the coldness of it.

 

[speedster352]

prove shoto's phosphor can null things beyond what his ice has shown.
you said he could null the sun if he had the range, so prove that.

if you cannot, then natsu's fire - being hotter than anything showed in MHA - will not be negated by phosphor because it's too hot for the coldness of it.

This key of Natsu needed lighting fire dragon mode to melt sand so his heat is not that much in this key.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Now I see that u are completely reading the opposite of what I said lol. I would like to point out your mistakes starting from the 1st.

1.) You completely ignored my question and started going on about elements in other fictions in other fiction. I literally asked you this (Q) how the he'll would mixing to element together grant you phosphor? And you answered with this (A) Bro does not even know what Classical Elements are. There very much is a classical definition for what an element is, it’s that everything is made up of water, earth, fire, air and ether. That’s the whole reason why games, fiction, shows, books etc treat said things as elements.

And you just proved my point. Classical Elements make up everything in existence, that’s why they were called elements and the Periodic Table of Elements does the same. By the very definition of it, fire and ice are made up of one of or a combo of the five.

Literally you can't even prove phosphor is an element and started going off point. It doesn't help that Shoto technique works like the real life thing which is not an element. You simply can't debunk fact.

Lord in Heaven help me
Have you been paying any attention at all? It doesn’t matter if it’s not an element when your last post already conceded that Natsu can eat non elements.

Literally this is not a counter argument. Shoto profile doesn't state that he could give others hypothermia or necrosis but he can. Shoto profile doesn't state that he can is will power but I rusty or king already pointed out he has this. Literally some of the stuff you pulled out for natsu aren't even on his profile either. You debunked nothing here.

This actually very much is a counter argument. Site rules require things to be on the profile via a CRT to be valid. Any abilities I argued is already on the profile or in a profile linked to the page.

I never agreed with you on anything here. I specifically said That I agree on natsu being able to eat stuff not element related like MAGIC. I didn't agree on natsu eating Phosphor.

Quite literally not what you said and I have been arguing that Natsu can eat a non element specifically not magic. It’s literally anti magic that destroys magic particles. Tf you mean you conceded to Natsu being able to eat magic? That was never even in the discussion for this point.

At this point it is pretty much questionable if you read my reply with an open. I literally gave you a longer explanation and a shorter ones on how thing escalated:

To put things straight and simple, any technique shoto used with phosphor did null dabi but he kept on powering up with rage power/supernatural will power till he was fully negated. This is why i said before that natsu is not gonna be fully nulled by one attack.

I told you here ^^^ that dabi was nulled anytime that shoto attacked him with phosphor but dabi kept on powering up but was eventually nulled. I even told you it would take more than one strike to null Natsu.

So Natsu can’t be nulled considering his fire > anything Shoto has been shown to null. You must not understand that you need feats to prove characters can actually do something, not whatever fanfic you cook up in your mind.

Natsu can get this if he is nulled, I told you this multiple times now and you kept on playing ignorance. I also told that if that doesn't work shoto could freeze him from his mouth which would also freeze his organs and still give him necrosis. You aren’t reading anything here lol, you are literally just spamming anything that enters your head.

No, he can’t. Natsu doesn’t need flames to resist the level of cold Shoto has shown. His passive body temperature is already superior to anything Shoto’s Phosphor has nulled based on feats, not your headcanon.

Nothing is going on Natsu’s mouth unless he is eating it aka he is unaffected by whatever characteristics it has. His internal temperature is also > his external temperature. Shoto can’t even do anything to him from the outside, let alone inside.

I actually just went back and did this but u literally have zero counter argument then and even now.

Because you don’t know how debating fictional characters works.

Bakugo has go back and check, it is like a 2 in 1 profile. The key you are looking at is his ofa key and not all out war.

That’s nice and all but it still isn’t on Shoto’s page and said feat takes place when Shoto is not there and spent the arc chasing after Dabi.

Go back and reread my comment lol. I never told you anything about it being head Canon. All I said was straight forward and simple. As we don't know what phosphor is. I even gave you an example on how other site people misinterpret it for shoto being completely immune to all forms of heat/fire.

That … doesn’t support your case at all, nor did I say you claimed it was canon. Everything you said was completely useless to the topic at hand.

I do hope you know that I only brought out all those site and their opinions so you can see that most people have their own interpretation on what it is due to limited info. So their opinion doesn't need to bother you or anything. But from what we've been debating so far, I can fully say that your knowledge on mha is minimal to non existence.

Who is typing out whatever comes to their mind now? Everything I brought up was on topic, you’re just saying shit.

I saw your scaling. That doesn't help what we are debating and you already proved my point by saying this:

Blitzes where it isn’t due to Natsu being “caught off guard” but legitimate blitzes where he explicitly can’t even perceive his opponent even when on guard and aware it’s going to happen.

This simply means that natsu knows what's coming. Meanwhile we have shoto whose blitz would be unexpected. Meaning that Shoto could be fighting natsu ant the same speed but just perform a blitz. This would literally catch natsu off guard and no scaling chain of yours is about to change that.

Are you actually stupid? Natsu isn’t Shoto in this comparison, Jellal is and Jellal is blitzing a Natsu who is on guard for a blitz and already scales to CHC Erza who can counter a blitz through skill, a far more impressive feat then someone not expecting to be blitzed and being caught off guard as a result. Natsu’s sense of smell proceeds to let him precog and successfully counter Jellal’s V1 Meteor blitz until he goes V2 and blitzes his previous speed.

Do refrain yourself from throwing insult at me because if I were to strike back I wouldn't just be calling only you out.

… like, call me out if you want but I don’t see how calling out others is somehow my problem?

I would like proof of natsu eating something non magical related to even slightly believe anything that just came out of u.

Crazy that you ask for proof when you haven’t provided anything of the sort but since I’m such a generous guy, I’ll continue to humor your hypocritical ass. Here is Natsu consuming explosions on separate occasions, all caused by Curse Power which is explicitly not magical.

All this statement prove is that you can’t read.

It proves you don’t know how the English language works.

What are you even saying now . You literally just spamming things again. You are on a defence because you simply can't counter my arguments. You have continously taken L after L which at this point is getting boring.

You are on a defence because of your inability to bring a viable wincon or how said wincon could be used tactically in a battle.

You are on a defence for failing to see that natsu rarely has anything going for him here and through out this battle I have been the one bringing out point.

You are on a defence for failing to see how frail your argument really is and how we barely talk about natsu in this thread. Our main debate resolves around shoto and how you can stop him from winning.

If only you open your eyes to see this fact.

I might see this “fact” if your headass arguments were actually what you thought they were.

I am reading you point lol. You keep on proving how right I am from how our debate is going and do you know how I know that?

I know this because you literally kept on making the same mistake every time. You said this again:

Natsu can eat elements and non-elements, darkness manip was something I brought up from the very start to prove a point that even if (and that’s the biggest if ever)

You've once again brought a power that is related to magic from ft verse as proof for him being able to eat phosphor. I already told u that I agree on natsu being able to eat stuff magic related.

For someone who claims I know nothing about MHA and expects me to just accept his headcanon in a debate, you sure don’t know shit about Fairy Tail yet insist on trying to lecture me on it when you’ve already been told that Dragon Slayers can eat goddamn anti magic. That’s as non magic as you can get.

As For aabsorption, nothing is stopping shoto from performing a blitz once ge figures that out. He would smack natsu with phosphor.

Ah yes, blitz Natsu when he can counter several layers of blitzing and hit him with a move that doesn’t work on him. Peak strat right there.

If this helps you sleep at night. You literally said nothing of any importance here

I figured I’d try it out since you seem to have had so much fun spouting pointless drivel.

This key of Natsu needed lighting fire dragon mode to melt sand so his heat is not that much in this key.

Speed, I already corrected you on this before and provided a scaling chain for Natsu scaling well above lightning temp. Don’t say this when it isn’t true. This key doesn’t use LFDM anywhere near sand throughout all of X791 and only used it 4 times.

1. Against Jiemma in the Sabertooth hotel where Minerva blocks/teleports it
2. Against Future Rogue in Mercurius where Natsu gets bodied
3. Against Jackal in the middle of a town to defend Michello and
4. Against Etherious Form Tempester in the ruins of Plutogrim when it crashed into the mountain range by Magnolia.

 

[Danny33wise]

And you just proved my point. Classical Elements make up everything in existence, that’s why they were called elements and the Periodic Table of Elements does the same. By the very definition of it, fire and ice are made up of one of or a combo of the five.

I see your mom didn’t take you to school or your teach was a funking idiot because at this point you are just misinterpreting being dumb as being intelligent (your case is weird).

First you didn’t answer anything I said and now you are completely going of the chart, get a grip on it bro. If you simply don't know the meaning of things stop using false logic to make it look right. I told the u the mixture of shoto quirk created something completely different from what fire and ice should logically do, I told science in fiction don't mix and yet you still play the ignorant fool.

Shoto created phosphor, something that is pretty similar to (Phosphorus) and works similarly to (Phosphorus retardant). Shoto did not create any classical element, his mixture created something related to chemical element. I don't know how hard it is for your brain to grasp such a small concept.

This actually very much is a counter argument. Site rules require things to be on the profile via a CRT to be valid. Any abilities I argued is already on the profile or in a profile linked to the page.

Most of the thing you said aren't on natsu profile lol. You pulled out some shit and said you assumed it not their because some bs reasons. All the ability I listed are in shoto profile, if I said something that isn’t their then why don't you point it out.

Quite literally not what you said and I have been arguing that Natsu can eat a non element specifically not magic. It’s literally anti magic that destroys magic particles. Tf you mean you conceded to Natsu being able to eat magic? That was never even in the discussion for this point.

And this is what happens when you read blindly. I literally said natsu can it stuff magic related in my second to the last debunk dum dum. Go back and reread it and this time around with your eyes open.

So Natsu can’t be nulled considering his fire > anything Shoto has been shown to null. You must not understand that you need feats to prove characters can actually do something, not whatever fanfic you cook up in your mind.

This is not an argument nor is it even worth noting. Unless shoto fire has been shown to have said weakness natsu is getting nulled and stomp.

No, he can’t. Natsu doesn’t need flames to resist the level of cold Shoto has shown. His passive body temperature is already superior to anything Shoto’s Phosphor has nulled based on feats, not your headcanon.

Nothing is going on Natsu’s mouth unless he is eating it aka he is unaffected by whatever characteristics it has. His internal temperature is also > his external temperature. Shoto can’t even do anything

At this point am not even sure if it is your lack of creativity or your sheer stupidity talking. Shoto flame has not been shown or stated to have such weakness. Their is zero reasoning behind your foolish statements. Phosphor is meant to neg all things fire related. If Phosphor was meant to null a certain temperature then it wouldn't have nulled dabi at all because dabi from the 1st war arc is pretty weak compared to second war arc dabi.

Shoto from the second war arc pretty had no idea that dabi could mimic move and that it would buff him up to a very high degree. The todoroki clash was literally threatening to cause World wide change in the weather and at very fast paced.

If Phosphor has such a weakness that you are implying then shoto wouldn't be able to null dabi because dabi flame increase in temperature was pretty high once he copied phosphor.

You once again have no point here to make.

That’s nice and all but it still isn’t on Shoto’s page and said feat takes place when Shoto is not there and spent the arc chasing after Dabi.

The arc am talking about is in kamino. Kamino arc takes place in 100+ chapter if am not wrong, while the current war arc is like 3 digit remaining for it to reach 400. Shoto wasn't chasing dabi then because he had no idea who dabi was.

That … doesn’t support your case at all, nor did I say you claimed it was canon. Everything you said was completely useless to the topic at hand.

I will take this ad you saying you have no counter.

Who is typing out whatever comes to their mind now? Everything I brought up was on topic, you’re just saying shit.

Angered much? Take a chill pill then.

Are you actually stupid? Natsu isn’t Shoto in this comparison, Jellal is and Jellal is blitzing a Natsu who is on guard for a blitz and already scales to CHC Erza who can counter a blitz through skill, a far more impressive feat then someone not expecting to be blitzed and being caught off guard as a result. Natsu’s sense of smell proceeds to let him precog and successfully counter Jellal’s V1 Meteor blitz until he goes V2 and blitzes his previous speed.

I don't know how you would call me me stupid and yet type something stupid like this. Kind of makes you look more like the clown you truly are:

Jellal is blitzing a Natsu who is on guard for a blitz and already scales to CHC Erza who can counter a blitz through skill,

If I where to throw a ball at you and you are aware of it coming at you at an alarming rate, you would obviously be wise enough to duck, catch or even kick the ball away just because you saw it coming.

But, if I where to go behind you and throw a ball at you when you are unaware it would definitely hit you because you where unaware of such and it came at you unexpectedly.

Instead of giving a good reasoning behind why shoto won't blitz, you are unintentionally helping that natsu won't dodge shoto blitz.

Crazy that you ask for proof when you haven’t provided anything of the sort but since I’m such a generous guy, I’ll continue to humor your hypocritical ass. Here is Natsu consuming explosions on separate occasions, all caused by Curse Power which is explicitly not magical

I fail to see how this info is relevant to natsu being able to eat phosphor. Your dumbass just don't get it, their are zero proof on why natsu is gonna resist phosphor and you are helping prove my point since you are such a generous dog.

I might see this “fact” if your headass arguments were actually what you thought they were.

No debunk here again I see.

For someone who claims I know nothing about MHA and expects me to just accept his headcanon in a debate, you sure don’t know shit about Fairy Tail yet insist on trying to lecture me on it when you’ve already been told that Dragon Slayers can eat goddamn anti magic. That’s as non magic as you can get.

I don't know shit on fairy tail is definitely a lie, infact I have been planning to watch the anime for a while now. FT is just not in my top 10 right because of the bad reviews of it having to much fan service lol.

My knowledge on the verse is minimal true, but I still do research on some of the stuff you pointed to know if it's true or false and right now their is no reasonable proof that you could bring that will show natsu capability in being able to eat phosphor.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Natsu slams

 

[Danny33wise]

Natsu slams

If u don't mind me asking, how?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

If u don't mind me asking, how?

Better at everything, resist everything, phosphore reasoning has flaws, has amps

Natsu slams

Also, if you are gonna insult, don´t even bother to answer, thanks

 

[SeijiSetto]

snip

those definitely are some of the words ever
anyway see below

prove shoto's phosphor can null things beyond what his ice has shown.
you said he could null the sun if he had the range, so prove that.

if you cannot, then natsu's fire - being hotter than anything showed in MHA - will not be negated by phosphor because it's too hot for the coldness of it.

 

[Danny33wise]

those definitely are some of the words ever
anyway see below

As for proof for Phosphor being able to neg flames with higher temperatures. We'll dabi flames continously get buffed up during the him vs shoto fight till it affected the (Cloud).

Note the cloud feat wasn't done by just dabi, endeavour and shoto where involved to but like 50% of this was done by just dabi and to make things worse, dabi buffed up till he was about to vaporize 5 kilometres. Like this isn’t enough he created a massive dome around himself that creating a huge crater in the ground.

Shoto literally did not expect this level of heat when the first time he and dabi fought he got (Burnt). Shoto in the second war arc was shocked about dabi's flame output and so where his father's side kicks lol.

All this literally proves that phosphor doesn't care about level of heat or flame it main purpose is just to null.

And as for the sun stuff, it is a big what if because from my own perspective if shoto is capable of hitting the sun (hence why I gave the sun the size of a soccer ️ ball) he should logically be capable of nulling it. But if it were our regular huge sun then shoto would be dead.

I even go as far to point out to you guys that natsu taking a hit from shoto wouldn't null him finish as am sure natsu has rage power and supernatural will power. Natsu can basically so the same thing as dabi and power up till he eventually get nulled if he continously takes hit from Phosphor.

 

[Danny33wise]

Better at everything, resist everything, phosphore reasoning has flaws, has amps

Natsu slams

Also, if you are gonna insult, don´t even bother to answer, thanks

How is phosphor reasoning flawed? I also like how you ignored everything and pointed me out for insulting when anonymous has continously throw insult at me till the point I had to warn him about me doing the same and his exact word where (I didn't care).

I don't necessarily care about you or your opinion but if you do think natsu win that is your problem but just know that your comment is biased.

 

[SeijiSetto]

As for proof for Phosphor being able to neg flames with higher temperatures. We'll dabi flames continously get buffed up during the him vs shoto fight till it affected the (Cloud).

Note the cloud feat wasn't done by just dabi, endeavour and shoto where involved to but like 50% of this was done by just dabi and to make things worse, dabi buffed up till he was about to vaporize 5 kilometres. Like this isn’t enough he created a massive dome around himself that creating a huge crater in the ground.

Shoto literally did not expect this level of heat when the first time he and dabi fought he got (Burnt). Shoto in the second war arc was shocked about dabi's flame output and so where his father's side kicks lol.

All this literally proves that phosphor doesn't care about level of heat or flame it main purpose is just to null

what part of this proves that shoto's phosphor can null things beyond what it has shown. all you've shown me are phosphor's feats and while those are all well and good, if natsu's heat is hotter then it won't get negated. the rage power or supernatural will isn't even relevant, if his REGULAR flames are >>> anything phosphor has shown, you can't say "well it can null anything" because that is the PEAK definition of a No-Limits Fallacy.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Natsu Slams

your comment is biased.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I see your mom didn’t take you to school or your teach was a funking idiot because at this point you are just misinterpreting being dumb as being intelligent (your case is weird).

First you didn’t answer anything I said and now you are completely going of the chart, get a grip on it bro. If you simply don't know the meaning of things stop using false logic to make it look right. I told the u the mixture of shoto quirk created something completely different from what fire and ice should logically do, I told science in fiction don't mix and yet you still play the ignorant fool.

Yup, you’re a dumbass. Do you have any idea what battleboards are? We try to gauge how strong a character is by applying, you guessed it, science to the setting. The moment you say science isn’t applicable, your word is worth less than dirt.

Shoto created phosphor, something that is pretty similar to (Phosphorus) and works similarly to (Phosphorus retardant). Shoto did not create any classical element, his mixture created something related to chemical element. I don't know how hard it is for your brain to grasp such a small concept.

Once again proving your illiteracy. I never said Shoto was creating a classical element so let’s not strawman here. I asked for your definition of element, you directed me to Avatar which uses the classical definition, the same one that says everything in the world is comprised of one of or a mixture of the five elements. It doesn’t matter what Phosphor is when it is made of things Natsu can eat.

Most of the thing you said aren't on natsu profile lol. You pulled out some shit and said you assumed it not their because some bs reasons. All the ability I listed are in shoto profile, if I said something that isn’t their then why don't you point it out.

His fear resistance? Necrosis? How about you list the things I brought up that aren’t on Natsu’s profile. The skill? That shit isn’t gone into detail on profiles. Enhanced senses that let him counter a blitz? On the profile. Him being able to eat whatever he wants? On the profile. Eating non magical substances or elements? On the profile because it’s accepted that Natsu isn’t limited to only eating magical things. His absorption? Part of the same thing. More magic = more heat? Scans are included under his rage amp in his PnA.

Go and actually read the profiles.

And this is what happens when you read blindly. I literally said natsu can it stuff magic related in my second to the last debunk dum dum. Go back and reread it and this time around with your eyes open.

And you missed the part where you are contradicting yourself. I’m responding specifically to what is quoted so I can’t be off topic when each section of my posts pertains to the quoted part. I don’t need to reread anything when your own argument isn’t internally consistent.

This is not an argument nor is it even worth noting. Unless shoto fire has been shown to have said weakness natsu is getting nulled and stomp.

No Limits Fallacy. Please, continue being wrong.

At this point am not even sure if it is your lack of creativity or your sheer stupidity talking. Shoto flame has not been shown or stated to have such weakness. Their is zero reasoning behind your foolish statements. Phosphor is meant to neg all things fire related. If Phosphor was meant to null a certain temperature then it wouldn't have nulled dabi at all because dabi from the 1st war arc is pretty weak compared to second war arc dabi.

Shoto from the second war arc pretty had no idea that dabi could mimic move and that it would buff him up to a very high degree. The todoroki clash was literally threatening to cause World wide change in the weather and at very fast paced.

If Phosphor has such a weakness that you are implying then shoto wouldn't be able to null dabi because dabi flame increase in temperature was pretty high once he copied phosphor.

More NLFs, yay. Let me guess, you also think Featherine can’t kill Ganondorf just because she doesn’t have the Master Sword?

You once again have no point here to make.


The arc am talking about is in kamino. Kamino arc takes place in 100+ chapter if am not wrong, while the current war arc is like 3 digit remaining for it to reach 400. Shoto wasn't chasing dabi then because he had no idea who dabi was.

No no no. You said Bakugo has resistance against AFO’s fear hax because he could move. The profile for Bakugo that covers that arc says he has no fear manip resistance, something I pointed out. You then said he has fear manip resistance in his other profile, which he does and I agreed with however said profile does not include him getting kidnapped and escaping in AFO’s presence as reasoning for it.

Let’s not sit here and blatantly lie when the truth has been quoted and can be seen by just scrolling up. Neither Shoto nor Bakugo have resistance to fear manip for the events in Kamino.

I will take this ad you saying you have no counter.

Tf are you on about? Of course there is no counter. I can’t be countering anything when there is nothing to counter. Look at what my words are actually responding to. You yourself said that all you did was give other people’s opinions that YOU don’t even agree with. No scans, no explanations, nothing.

Angered much? Take a chill pill then.

Anger? Lol. Wasted emotion on you. Just incredulity at the sheer lack of common sense, logic and critical thinking.

I don't know how you would call me me stupid and yet type something stupid like this. Kind of makes you look more like the clown you truly are:

Jellal is blitzing a Natsu who is on guard for a blitz and already scales to CHC Erza who can counter a blitz through skill,

If I where to throw a ball at you and you are aware of it coming at you at an alarming rate, you would obviously be wise enough to duck, catch or even kick the ball away just because you saw it coming.

But, if I where to go behind you and throw a ball at you when you are unaware it would definitely hit you because you where unaware of such and it came at you unexpectedly.

Instead of giving a good reasoning behind why shoto won't blitz, you are unintentionally helping that natsu won't dodge shoto blitz.

Breaking news, Danny’s absence of education an literacy strikes again!

Let me try and break it down for your empty head.

1. Ikaruga can blitz Erza
2. CHC Erza can counter this blitz through skill
3. Natsu = CHC Erza in skill
4. V1 Meteor Jellal can blitz Natsu who is on guard and expecting a blitz
5. Natsu proceeds to use his nose to successfully predict Jellal.

There is no me “helping that natsu won't dodge shoto blitz”, it’s me explaining how Jellal is way faster than a basic ass blitz and that Natsu’s nose let’s him counter that while you reaffirm your goofy ass reading comprehension to everyone in this thread.

I fail to see how this info is relevant to natsu being able to eat phosphor. Your dumbass just don't get it, their are zero proof on why natsu is gonna resist phosphor and you are helping prove my point since you are such a generous dog.

Omg You definitely have to be trolling. I refuse to believe any human, even one afflicted with every mental illness and condition known to man, could be this stupid.

Read the words I am responding to you clown. You asked for Natsu eating something non-magical, I gave that to you. Rather than sit online being some obtuse mouthbreather, go and get an education and do something with yourself.

No debunk here again I see.


I don't know shit on fairy tail is definitely a lie, infact I have been planning to watch the anime for a while now. FT is just not in my top 10 right because of the bad reviews of it having to much fan service lol.

My knowledge on the verse is minimal true, but I still do research on some of the stuff you pointed to know if it's true or false and right now their is no reasonable proof that you could bring that will show natsu capability in being able to eat phosphor.

Oh? Would you look at that? Danny contradicting his own claims in the same post. What a surprise, I could never have imagined that would occur.

Pick a story and stick with it dude. Doesn’t even matter if it’s a lie, it’s better than repeatedly contradicting yourself in the same post.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Whoa, everyone chill!

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Whoa, everyone chill!

Chill this