Shoto (MHA) vs Natsu (Fairy Tail)

[1997KD]

Natsu is superior to h2h and probably in Battle IQ, virtually immune to any kind of flame/heat based attack thanks to his dsm and dragon skin, ice manipulation isn't something new for him, and ap gap can be close with his rage power, so yeah, Natsu take it

 

[Danny33wise]

calling me delusional because i disagree with you doesn't do anything to help your argument - i've already asked you to cool it with attacking ME instead of the arguments i make, so please stop.

Never called u delusional. To be more specific, I told that you trying to make it seem like your opinion can be changed is delusional because it certainly is not the case here. You saying blank argument is better than mine when he has repeatedly been countered by me kind of put a nail to the coffin.

This is me telling you to stop sugar coating your words. How did you reach the conclusion that I was insulting u? When did you also ask me to cool off with attacking u?

it's not completely illogical.
every time i try to mention that abilities are limited i say "they're limited to what they have been shown to do or can reasonably be assumed to do"
if, based on previous showings, natsu can reasonably be assumed to eat stuff made of both ice and fire or whatever the hell, then it would make sense
but EVEN THEN - i said "let's steelman the argument and say natsu cannot eat phosphor", i'm trying to engage with you and shoot down your points

The best feat you guys posted was an explosion. And how does him eating things made of fire and ice prove he eats phosphor?

i bring it up again: shoto says "a body flame couldn't burn"
if i throw him in the sun while he has phosphor active he's still dying. idgaf about what you think, considering earlier you admitted it was literally your own theory.
since you want to talk about phosphor retardant anyway, if i threw it into the sun, it also wouldn't do shit.
before you go and misinterpret me bringing up the sun as trying to imply natsu has fire as hot as the sun - no, i'm not doing that. i'm just using it as an example of something extremely hot here.

literally your only argument that phosphor can null natsu is that

What are natsu argument for winning again? I don't see anything being said about him winning beside only wincon. Bringing out the sun argument or my theory on phosphor doesn't do shit here. I told you I would use the size of a soccer ball because if shoto where to be at the top of the sun he would get overwhelmed.

My theory on phosphor became a fact and not a theory once I have putten much thought into it. Because the description of phosphor in a way mat the description of the real thing.

excuse my abrasive language but nobody gives a flying FUCK about what phosphor's "main property" is, because what you're doing at this point is wanking it to the point of saying it would be able to turn off the sun if shoto had the range because "well it's made to null fire so it can null any fire"
that is exactly what a No-Limits Fallacy is.
natsu's heat is hotter, it would be like dropping an ice cube into a volcano and being surprised when it doesn't do shit.
so. there's the argument that it can be reasonably assumed natsu could eat phosphor. you can disagree, sure, but the evidence is there for other people to agree if they so choose.
and AGAIN - if you steelman the argument and say "nah he can't eat it" - phosphor lacks the potency to do anything to natsu's flames, and thus, it's irrelevant here.

shoto's options are fire, ice, and phosphor.
fire is useless against a fire dragon slayer.
ice gets melted.
phosphor either gets eaten or completely ignored due to it lacking the potency.

Nothing here is worth noting . I already told you what I wanted to and there is no wanking behind it. The fact is pretty simple and that is phosphor is a protection from fire attack.

My opinion still remains unchanged as the argument presented for natsu lacks any form of proof or a good reasoning behind it. Shoto murks him.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Shoto murks him

And Natsu Slams

 

[Danny33wise]

i never implied shoto would stand there, you aren't reading what i'm saying.
if 2 people fight in purely physical H2H or CQC or whatever you wanna call it - the more skilled one will win. that's basically what skill is. if A and B have identical strength, speed, and A is more skilled than B, A will win.
here, AP is (slightly) different but for the sake of the argument it is basically identical, it's a 7% difference.
speed is equal.
if natsu is more skilled than shoto, he will win.

I read your argument and am saying cqc doesn't matter here. This is no physical fight and it will never be physical fight an even if I should assume that it does get to physical fight, I don't see natsu doing anything note worthy besides throwing punches and kicks which wouldn't be effective. U

what does this have to do with "natsu is already almost equal to shoto in AP, if he gets a rage amp he will get stronger and be at an advantage"
idgaf about dabi being too angry to die lol, he isn't in this fight

Dabi ain’t in the fight but he is an example why rage power will be less effective here.

 

[Danny33wise]

And Natsu Slams

Your opinion doesn't concerns me.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Never called u delusional. To be more specific, I told that you trying to make it seem like your opinion can be changed is delusional because it certainly is not the case here.

me saying "i disagree with you and your arguments haven't convinced me"is not delusional, again - stop trying to imply anything like that because i'm not mindlessly going with what you're saying.

You saying blank argument is better than mine when he has repeatedly been countered by me kind of put a nail to the coffin.

while appealing to popularity is generally a no-go, if people have come in and read the ENTIRE thread and not been convinced by you repeatedly saying "phosphor can neg all fire because that's what it's supposed to do", i don't think you've really 'countered' any argument, so to speak...

The best feat you guys posted was an explosion. And how does him eating things made of fire and ice prove he eats phosphor?

this match is literally him in Black Fire Dragon Mode, a form he gained by eating LITERAL DARKNESS from Eclipse Leo
also, see below... again

Spoiler: buranku

Right … you have no clue on how whack FT is, do you? When Natsu, Gajeel Sting and Rogue eat other elements it becomes LFDM, BFDM, ISDM, WSDM etc. Seems simple enough right? When Natsu gets wind, lightning, iron, white, shadow and poison he ain’t rocking some … Iron Sky Eclipse Poison Lightning Flame Mode, he gets Seven Flame Dragon Mode. Shit looks like fire but is by no means just fire.

FT is the same verse where “Sage”, “Sword Saint” and “Four Holy Beasts” are elements. Do note that Sage has nothing to do with plants or wisdom, Sword Saint is nothing like a Blade/Sword element, and even now, nobody knows wtf Four Holy Beasts is meant to be as an element.

What are natsu argument for winning again? I don't see anything being said about him winning beside only wincon. Bringing out the sun argument or my theory on phosphor doesn't do shit here. I told you I would use the size of a soccer ball because if shoto where to be at the top of the sun he would get overwhelmed.

My theory on phosphor became a fact and not a theory once I have putten much thought into it. Because the description of phosphor in a way mat the description of the real thing.

being named the same as a real thing doesn't mean it acts in the exact same way.
your theory is being ignored because it's exactly that - a theory, and not on the profiles.
abilities are limited to what they've been shown to do or can reasonably be assumed to do - phosphor cannot be reasonably assumed to be capable of negating all flames, so please stop wanking the ability.

My opinion still remains unchanged as the argument presented for natsu lacks any form of proof or a good reasoning behind it. Shoto murks him.

cool

anyway uh

snip

see below for natsu votes

Spoiler: natsu votes

Natsu take it

Natsu always slams

natsu fra

yeah, voting natsu FRA

Natsu slams FRA

for the record - if it wasn't already clear - i'm voting natsu.

Natsu FRA

7-2 in natsu's favour, i believe. i'm pretty sure grace has already been reached.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Pretty sure there needs to be actual discussion on if this is a stomp or not, which we don't add to profiles.

Most of people who "voted" probably don't care and aren't even checking on this thread afterward.

And I'm pretty sure we don't consider a fight to not be a stomp because one person disagrees.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Pretty sure there needs to be actual discussion on if this is a stomp or not, which we don't add to profiles.

Most of people who "voted" probably don't care and aren't even checking on this thread afterward.

And I'm pretty sure we don't consider a fight to not be a stomp because one person disagrees.

i'm not saying the match should be added right this instant because it's reached grace
i'm saying that it HAS reached grace in terms of "who actually wins" and whether its actually a stomp or not can be discussed - which it likely is.
a fight being a stomp doesn't mean people can't vote, it just means it won't be added.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

7-2 in natsu's favour

I said it was a stomp, my vote does not count as a "FRA" as my believe is that Natsu stomps means that the fight should not be added

 

[SeijiSetto]

I said it was a stomp, my vote does not count as a "FRA" as my believe is that Natsu stomps means that the fight should not be added

i mean if you think natsu stomps then that's a vote in favour of him winning.

i agree it's a stomp and shouldn't be added, i said that:

for the record - if it wasn't already clear - i'm voting natsu. i think this might be a stomp ...

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I also think it’s a stomp.

 

[Danny33wise]

me saying "i disagree with you and your arguments haven't convinced me"is not delusional, again - stop trying to imply anything like that because i'm not mindlessly going with what you're saying.

How did what I said correlates with what you just said? Let me simplify things to you again in a more basic term. I said "stop giving false hope because your opinion can't be changed".

while appealing to popularity is generally a no-go, if people have come in and read the ENTIRE thread and not been convinced by you repeatedly saying "phosphor can neg all fire because that's what it's supposed to do", i don't think you've really 'countered' any argument, so to speak...

I doubt people read any of this before voting, because I certainly will not because how will people be convinced by eating Phosphor argument huh.

this match is literally him in Black Fire Dragon Mode, a form he gained by eating LITERAL DARKNESS from Eclipse Leo
also, see below... again

Did he eat literal darkness or something related to darkness magic. From the looks of things, it seems magic related.

being named the same as a real thing doesn't mean it acts in the exact same way.
your theory is being ignored because it's exactly that - a theory, and not on the profiles.
abilities are limited to what they've been shown to do or can reasonably be assumed to do - phosphor cannot be reasonably assumed to be capable of negating all flames, so please stop wanking the ability

It Act like the real thing because it was inspired by the real thing. The theory became fact the moment I put some thought and decided to do some research. At first I remember saying not much thought should be put on it due to fire and ice not being able to create something similar to the real deal which is why I called it a theory.

Not wanking it nulls flame and that's the explanation we Where given and that's what am telling you.

 

[SeijiSetto]

It Act like the real thing because it was inspired by the real thing. The theory became fact the moment I put some thought and decided to do some research. At first I remember saying not much thought should be put on it due to fire and ice not being able to create something similar to the real deal which is why I called it a theory.

Not wanking it nulls flame and that's the explanation we Where given and that's what am telling you.

saying "it nulls flame" again and again won't change the fact that

abilities are limited to what they've been shown to do or can reasonably be assumed to do - phosphor cannot be reasonably assumed to be capable of negating all flames

you seem to not have anything except the point of "well it's called phosphor like phosphorus retardant so it nulls all flame" so i'm going to stop engaging with you.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Definitely a stomp. Even Danny agrees it is even if he thinks Shoto is doing the stomping.

 

[Maitreya12]

I believe I’m voting for Natsu as well.

Unless it has been shown that Shoto’s phosphorus can nullify flames as hot as Natsu’s, then until further proof it could only at best mitigate those flames. Without such evidences then the Shoto phosphorus claim falls into a a large ‘no limits fallacy’ where extremely extraordinary claims like Shoto being able to null the sun itself are made without evidence to back that up.

 

[SeijiSetto]

oh i know this is already concluded but i started reading FT.

ch53, natsu fights someone who can use different types of fire. he eats blue fire, which he then describes as cold.

relevant, since phosphor is just a weird fire-nulling cold fire.

 

[Nierre]

def a stomp

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yep