Natsu Dragneel vs. Demiurge

[1997KD]

^only because you all discarding all the advantage natsu have, i still not get why he can't consume his flame, it more like a plannes spite matchup lol

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I mean, Natsu still has plenty of advantages, we're just saying Dem takes this more often than not.

He could eat the flames, but that would require anticipation that he doesn't have here; unless he managed to dodge the first attack, which would be tough given that its nearly omnidirectional, it'll hit him in some regard before he can gobble it all up, and destroy his soul.

Even then Demiurge has some solid combat options after that with teleportation, illusions, shape shifting, etc.

 

[OpMasada]

I mean, Natsu still has plenty of advantages, we're just saying Dem takes this more often than not.
He could eat the flames, but that would require anticipation that he doesn't have here; unless he managed to dodge the first attack, which would be tough given that its nearly omnidirectional, it'll hit him in some regard before he can gobble it all up, and destroy his soul.

Even then Demiurge has some solid combat options after that with teleportation, illusions, shape shifting, etc.

Your exaggerating his abilities at the end of your post, his illusion only consisted of a wall of fire, his shapeshifting only allows him to turn into a toad humanoid with wings,(his 3rd form unknown and thus can't be used), and he doesn't really use teleportation in battles as far as I know.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Nor am I saying those are what win him the match, that's his initial attack. When I refer to shapeshifting I'm also talking about his Aspect of the Devil skills.

I don't see how I'm exaggerating them. I'm not saying they'll let him curbstop Natsu, I'm just saying they can give him an edge in combat.

 

[Akreious]

Snip

A few things.

A) His teleportation spell is Greater Teleportation which is combat applicable, and as Demiurge is even smarter than Albedo in sheer wits, he shouldn't shy from using Greater Teleportation should he want. You saying "He doesn't really use teleportation in battles" is when he's in a persona and playing the foil to Ainz' Momon; aka fighting at a significantly weaker level than what he normally is.

B) Shapeshifting technically includes his "Devil of Aspects" abilities which shapeshift his body to be more advantageous in combat. Claws, large fists, large wings and the like.

C) Demiurge's "Illusion" spell, Flames of Gehenna, is not "Technically" an illusion as it buffs demons standing inside said fire. Things like improved attack, durability, MP, higher drop rates, etc. So technically Demiurge can buff himself by spreading this "illusion" everywhere.

Plus it'd screw with Natsu a little since he'd probably try to suck up this fire but fail since it isn't actually fire.

 

[1997KD]

I mean, Natsu still has plenty of advantages, we're just saying Dem takes this more often than not.

He could eat the flames, but that would require anticipation that he doesn't have here; unless he managed to dodge the first attack, which would be tough given that its nearly omnidirectional, it'll hit him in some regard before he can gobble it all up, and destroy his soul.

Even then Demiurge has some solid combat options after that with teleportation, illusions, shape shifting, etc.

Sure, but we are assuming that demi will do this, while natsu will just stand up doing nothing, Why not just use his roar like he use against blue not to wipe out everything in his front, include demi hellfire attack which is still a magic attacl(correct me if i am wrong). And i real hate your last line in above comment this happen really everytime- Put natsu againt tsuna- natsu eat his fire, no wait tsuna didn't use fire Put him against yamamoto(however it's outdated now)- yama didn't use flame it reiatsu And now magically demi fire is not fire it's something else Wow

 

[1997KD]

Demi has minor mind manipulation which didn't work on high willed ppl-Natsu resist soul manipulation with his willpower

Have a lot or army- he can break through

Hellfire-can be eaten And how much buffy he can get? Also what stopping natsu to use his roar like he did on bluenote? Or fdk demolition fist against he used on alveraz solder?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Dargoo Faust wrote

Sure, but we are assuming that demi will do this, while natsu will just stand up doing nothing,
Why not just use his roar like he use against blue not to wipe out everything in his front, include demi hellfire attack which is still a magic attacl(correct me if i am wrong). And i real hate your last line in above comment this happen really everytime- Put natsu againt tsuna- natsu eat his fire, no wait tsuna didn't use fire Put him against yamamoto(however it's outdated now)- yama didn't use flame it reiatsu And now magically demi fire is not fire it's something else Wow

Demi canonically starts with Hellfire Wall against anyone who isn't Ainz, who he was fighting casually.

I strongly doubt Natsu's roar would be able to stop or stem Hellfire Wall unless it can outright counter magic, as Dem's wall passed through anything that wasn't its intended target, I.E. Evileye (That or it skips right past her and immediately hit the Blue Rose adventurers, in which case Natsu doesn't have time to react even more).

Demi's fire is fire. Nobody was implying otherwise. It just A) ignores flame resistance, and B) incinerates souls. Both of which would zing Natsu big-time. Natsu's best bet would be to immediately jump a great distance and move around to make aiming difficult, however I doubt that would be his first move, as he'd have to anticipate an attack he doesn't know about. He might be able to eat some of Demi's Hellfire Wall, but even if it partially hits him the result is the same: soul obliteration.

 

[1997KD]

Dargoo Faust wrote

Demi canonically starts with Hellfire Wall against anyone who isn't Ainz, who he was fighting casually....
It fire dragon king mode natsu right?

He can burn magic casually in this from(burn zeref death magic), he reaction speed if good tho, can react mardgeer throns when he encounter it for 1st time.

The moment natsu will eat it even a small portion, it will gain it's effect and resistance, as i say if he is start with a roar, he will burn everything in his path along side demi magic attack. Hellfire wall can be a mistake for demi since he didn't have resistance to his own attack, and natsu still have ap advantage he cann easily overpower any of the demi attack, i already show how he eat flame , if the flame is from a distance

 

[Moritzva]

This argument is honestly just an echo chamber of the same faulty reasons for Natsu. I think we can just leave it as it is and state that all votes that still fail to deal with mind hax, soul destruction hax, illusions, etc can't be counted.

 

[1997KD]

This argument is honestly just an echo chamber of the same faulty reasons for Natsu. I think we can just leave it as it is and state that all votes that still fail to deal with mind hax, soul destruction hax, illusions, etc can't be counted.

Mind hax only affects weak minded ppl, it's like king haki where user can put weak mind ppl in sleep.

Soul destruction comes from his flame which can be consumed

The illusion is not even a proper illusion is more like a buff area for his allies.

Also if you read the vs battle rules, you know you can't give anyone win because you feel like it

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Actually his Mindhax can work even better even if the person has a strong mind as long as they are below level 40.

Natsu isn't going to be able to consume an omnidirectional attack he doesn't know about which can spontaneously appear near him with Demi's teleportation. You're assuming Natsu has foresight he lacks here. If he knew about Demiurge's powers, I'd give this to you, but he doesn't.

Actually it is a proper illusion, one that would actually confuse the heck out of Natsu as it looks like flames. Enough to distract him for a swift hellfire attack.

"you know you can't give anyone win because you feel like it"

This particular line really irks me. There was plenty of discussion and more people agreed on the reasoning that Demiurge would win. It's not like the moment I posted this people argued "Demiurge because he's cooler", there was a ton of discussion and we came to a conclusion.

Pretending that didn't happen is just off.

 

[OpMasada]

how long until match finish?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Grace began 20 hours ago, and ends in 4.

 

[Moritzva]

Woo!

 

[1997KD]

"you know you can't give anyone win because you feel like it"

This particular line really irks me. There was plenty of discussion and more people agreed on the reasoning that Demiurge would win. It's not like the moment I posted this people argued "Demiurge because he's cooler", there was a ton of discussion and we came to a conclusion.

Pretending that didn't happen is just off.

Don't take it wrong way,


How you can decide natsu lvl in other verse?

Bu arguing further is just useless, so do whatever you want.

 

[FDrybob]

Nobody is making an argument for Natsu's level in other verses. Everyone discussed his abilities and Demiurge's abilities, and concluded through rational argument that Natsu loses more often then not. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Grace has ended a while ago.

I've added the battle and I'll close this.