Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[Wankbreaker]

My paragraph implied that she was not fighting with her MEODP and thus gave Fujino the advantage at that point during the fight. If you've actually read Knk you would know the reapson she didn't use MEODP from the start was the fact that she stated verbatim "Things without form are hard to see but thanks to you using it multiple times I can see them now. Implying that her advantage is gone given that she can see her technique, Shiki stating she was fighting with caution given the detrimental situation of the fight and Fujino's ability.

Yes, that’s the point. You said that she was purposefully not using it, while the reality was that she could not see the distortions.

She moved to those buildings cause she could not see or cut her spell. That disadvantage is gone given she can easily cut the spell now. Also scans of Fujino not requiring sight to activate her spell.

She also moved to those buildings to hide between them to not get targeted. Shikis entire battle strategy was to get out of fujino’s sight.

Fujino is literally blind after chapter 3 lol, think the rest should be obvious.

Refer to my earlier point of shiki not needing to do so anymore now she can cut the technique.

Cool, she can cut it.
She had extreme diff dodging slower distortions. pretty sure the novel says she didnt completely avoid damage either.

She can't dodge shiki's regular attacks and she accepting inferiority in physical combat cohere to that point. Shiki later stating she made miscalculations in her movement.

That is not said. This is why you don’t use the Cokesakto translation as a source. She also dodges shikis attack as it’s about to reach her.

"You really are ridiculous."

Shiki's voice echoes through the darkness. Fujino turns in the direction of the sound. The stack of materials Shiki is hiding behind is instantly smashed. At that instant... a white figure streaks out of the wreckage

"... There!!"

Fujino's eyes get a hold on Shiki. The girl in the white kimono and the red leather jacket runs toward Fujino, holding her left arm out.

"......!!"

Fujino hesitates a bit and then bends. With a cracking sound, Shiki's left arm breaks. Her neck is next; but when Fujino looks... Shiki is already within range. The path that the knife takes is like a flash of light. A bright swing that leaves a lingering trace in the darkness. The knife that strikes without hesitation, however, does not hit Fujino. She ducks, avoiding the swing that was aimed at her neck... no, it was just an accident. Asagami Fujino only looked away because she was scared of Shiki, who was running towards her with a broken arm.

Already answered this on multiple occasions. The context of Shiki stating she could've died at anytime is propounded on the efficacy of fujino's ability and how it's easier to kill and also based on Shiki jot being able to see her attack at that point. These have been addressed and the full context was given, stop omitting context everytime.

Addressed this above.

Where was it stated that the activation speed was dependent on sight, and explain how it not depending on sight would make it faster.
Also show the scans of her ability not requiring sight. That wasn't the reason she lost. She was simply inferior and only had an advantage due to the nature of her ability, which doesn't give her that advantage anymore.

How would she be too slow when she can see them and she reacted to multiple of the same attacks at once.

Shiki starts to run. Her speed is incredible, despite the pooling water and violent wind. It should not take more than three seconds to reduce the distance between them from ten meters to zero. Enough time to bring Fujino's frail body to the ground and stab her in her heart. But even that speed cannot match the speed of sight. Shiki has to close in on her target while Fujino only has to look at her target. For the two, that difference of three seconds is too long.

"........."

Fujino's eyes glimmer. The left eye for a rotation to the left. The right eye for a rotation to the right. Taking Shiki's head and left leg as the fulcrums, she twists. A strange sensation occurs instantaneously. The moment Shiki feels the invisible power upon her, she jumps explosively to one side. But the power on Shiki does not weaken. Fujino's power is not a projectile weapon. Even if one gets away from one round, it is impossible to get completely away from it whilst in her vision.

Shikis whole battle strat is to not get in Fujinos line of sight.

There is a very short delay between fujino recognizing the target, and the distortion. this would be eliminated.

She already did that and it didn't work

Substantiate that she would be able to dispel faster ones when she had trouble reacting to them before.

Shiki reacts and cuts the s[ell, stop making baseles claims on things fujino have never been shown to be capable of doing. You seem to be assuming shiki is inferior without actually substantiating on why that's the case.

Are you saying... shes not capable of targeting the knife and bending it?

The novel and side materials calling her stronger lol

She ******* destroyed the entire building and shiki still survived.

Yes... but she could still detect and target shiki while she is falling.

Scans of Fujino being able to do this.

If her clarivoyance already has a form of seeing through obstacles, how is this any different?

Pretty sure everyone who says shiki is top tier isn't based on the fact she's their favorite.

well, she's no where near the top, i can tell you that much.

I used what you posted and wjat you said actually.

You're just reiterating addressed points.

I know the scene and hell no I'm gonna take that you actually believe that would help your agenda, cause right now it feels like you're just desperate.

coping doesnt eliminate its existence

Welp this is the time I step away and allow someone else handle this, you can't be serious lol.

see above.

Mikiya said she doesn't give 'HER' knives, not knives that she stole. Shiki was reluctant in giving the knife because she said it was a good knife and she wanted to keep it. Shiki already had her own knife to kill the faeries and did not need that one she stole.

Determined not to give up the knife, I glared back at Azaka as she approached. I wasn't carrying it around just for fun. I hadn't told her about it, but I had a strange feeling when I woke up this morning. Something had assimilated with my consciousness while I was asleep, though I wasn't sure if it was a fairy or not. But if it dared come back again, I wasn't letting it get away. That's why I needed the knife as a weapon.

?

There was no first attack as shiki was on her bed and Azaka climbed on top of her bed and proceeded to get on top of shiki, how would she dodge when she was laying down on A DAMN BED, why would you even think of using this.

Laying down, or sitting? either way, she is still capable of movement, and if she had Archetype Earth level of speed, she would be millions of times faster than azaka, and be able to react with ease.

What fan made version of knk did you read.

not cokesaktos fanfic, thats for sure.

Muttering those words in a chilling voice, she lunged at me. Stuck on the bed, I couldn't dodge her sudden attack. We ended up tangled together, crashing onto the mattress. In the end, Azaka managed to pry the knife away from me. Despite her cute looks, she was easily enraged. When she got really mad, she would go ballistic, like a wounded bear. Judging that words and counterattacks were pointless against this beast, I reluctantly handed over one of my hidden knives to end the silly scuffle. Azaka took the knife and walked over to her desk. I, on the other hand, remained lying on the bed. "You muscle head... Look at my arm, it's covered in bruises. What do you even eat?"

You do remember why she said that and what she said afterwards right? Like I said earlier stop nitpicking things to support your agenda.

Im "nitpicking" direct statements, alright.

She doesn't need high physical strength to combat AE as the MEODP does this dd tneed physical ability to kill an object. A case example would be a physically inferior Tohno shiki killing Arc and Nrvnqsr. AE also stated that shiki was about to kill "that which cannot be killed". So yeah you get the point.

I've already proven MEODP doesnt work. No concept of death, which means they are immune, via ORT's profile. Arc and Nero had a concept of death at this point.

She said "attempt", calling it an action based on emotion, which leads us back to the facts. She has no wincondition.

Alright.

Given the ending of every character in MBAA this scenerio is very unlikely

the only other ending where AE appears (Roa's), he explicitly gets killed easily,lol.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Just a point, i do not think Tohno was physically inferior to Arc and NRVNQSR. Dude held down arcuied, and speed blitzed NRVNQSR and Akiha so fast that Akiha could not even track tohno's movements, and was stomping arcuied and NRVNQSR without MEODP in melty blood. In fact i would say he is stronger in Nanaya mode.

There is a LOT of problems with MB scaling, it being a FG where everyone has to beat everyone.
Case in point, Satsujinki (Tohno at his peak), would have no chance against Merem, who would have to team up with blackmore to have a chance at defeating Altrouge, who is weaker than arc.

 

[LamentSatanael]

Nanaya has no MEoDP, Grand_Saver is right. His feats of annihilating vampires and stuff he did in his arcades are lowkey impressive because he's essentially killing beings of Type 3, 5, and 7 immortality with a plain knife and Nanaya arts alone.

I see your signature btw, peak

 

[Wankbreaker]

Sacchin route chapter title names, I have no idea if these are from OG or remake.

Inversion/Reactionary Impulse (反転衝動, hanten shoudou?)
Vampiric Impulse I (吸血衝動I, kyuuketsu shoudou?)
Vampiric Impulse II (吸血衝動 II, kyuuketsu shoudou?)
Planetarium I (プラネタリウム I?)
Sand Aquarium I (砂水槽 I, suna suisou?)
Sand Aquarium II (砂水槽 II, suna suisou?)
from dust. (1) - 7／ from dust. (2)
Planetarium II (プラネタリウム II?) - 8／kill dawn.
Cold-Blooded Love (人でなしの恋, hitodenashi no koi) - 9／Stardust (スターダスト?)

Depletion Garden (枯渇庭園, kokatsu teien)
Destruction of Dream and Reality (夢現解体, mugen kaitai)
Wishing upon a Star (星に願いを。, hoshi ni negai wo)

 

[Wankbreaker]

Nasuverse: Word of God Removal Removal (heh)

I’ve seen these arguments used as an excuse to pass around some pretty outrageous takes as fact (like base ryougi beating archetype Earth), so I’m getting rid of them. I feel like the OP of the OG also left a lot of context out, or straight up misinterpreted the scans. 1. (The shikis have no...

vsbattles.com

it is done.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Nasuverse bounded by dimensionality?

Nasu has all possible Aleph structures and dimensions with 1* servants like Kojiro transcending them making a random servant High Outer, then there's Abigail which is the vessel for Yog' Sothoth who scales Cthulhu Mythos Yog'Sothoth making her tier 0, making the servants who beat her Tier 0 too, you clearly got a reading comprehension of a child to say Heroic Spirits are bounded by dimensions when they all shit on Yog'Sothoth who is beyond all extensions of space-time clearly

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Nasuverse bounded by dimensionality?

Nasu has all possible Aleph structures and dimensions with 1* servants like Kojiro transcending them making a random servant High Outer, then there's Abigail which is the vessel for Yog' Sothoth who scales Cthulhu Mythos Yog'Sothoth making her tier 0, making the servants who beat her Tier 0 too, you clearly got a reading comprehension of a child to say Heroic Spirits are bounded by dimensions when they all shit on Yog'Sothoth who is beyond all extensions of space-time clearly

Images don’t work. Discord Images are unfortunately disable so you have to make do with Igmur there

 

[Wankbreaker]

Images don’t work. Discord Images are unfortunately disable so you have to make do with Igmur there

its broken emojis, but this was copy and pasted from some clown

 

[Huesito88]

Nasuverse bounded by dimensionality?

Nasu has all possible Aleph structures and dimensions with 1* servants like Kojiro transcending them making a random servant High Outer, then there's Abigail which is the vessel for Yog' Sothoth who scales Cthulhu Mythos Yog'Sothoth making her tier 0, making the servants who beat her Tier 0 too, you clearly got a reading comprehension of a child to say Heroic Spirits are bounded by dimensions when they all shit on Yog'Sothoth who is beyond all extensions of space-time clearly

And Shiki scales beyond all that so Tier 0++ Shiki

 

[Wankbreaker]

And Shiki scales beyond all that so Tier 0++ Shiki

tier 0++ primate murder, dantes and Araya

glorious and peak

 

[HammerStrikes219]

its broken emojis, but this was copy and pasted from some clown

Ahhhhh, that makes sense.

 

[Huesito88]

tier 0++ primate murder, dantes and Araya

glorious and peak

No only her those guys are still tier 0+ though

 

[Huesito88]

So when will you make your Tier 0++ Shiki profile on Joke Battles Wiki Breaker?

 

[Wankbreaker]

So when will you make your Tier 0++ Shiki profile on Joke Battles Wiki Breaker?

soon...
shiki being dropped from tier 1 here is imminent though, i just need 1 more staff vote

 

[Wankbreaker]

I remember someone coping how shiki doesnt need to cut the lines anymore physically as their reason for why base ryougi could beat AE (not like that helps since she has no death), but here:


どうやって幽閉空問から抜け出したかは、彼は十分に承知していた。昨夜―――魔術師の一撃によってあばら骨を数本砕かれ、意識を失った少女。
閉ざされた空間、マンションの壁と壁の間にもうけた異界の中で目を覚ました彼女は、その腕でありえない空間の、ありえない壁を斬ったのだ。

He was fully aware of how she escaped from the confined space. Last night, the girl had lost consciousness after the mage's blow shattered several of her ribs. When she awoke in the alien world between the walls of the apartment—a sealed-off space—she cut through the impossible walls of that impossible space with her own arm.

 

[TheSilverKing14]

I remember someone coping how shiki doesnt need to cut the lines anymore physically as their reason for why base ryougi could beat AE (not like that helps since she has no death), but here:


どうやって幽閉空問から抜け出したかは、彼は十分に承知していた。昨夜―――魔術師の一撃によってあばら骨を数本砕かれ、意識を失った少女。
閉ざされた空間、マンションの壁と壁の間にもうけた異界の中で目を覚ました彼女は、その腕でありえない空間の、ありえない壁を斬ったのだ。

He was fully aware of how she escaped from the confined space. Last night, the girl had lost consciousness after the mage's blow shattered several of her ribs. When she awoke in the alien world between the walls of the apartment—a sealed-off space—she cut through the impossible walls of that impossible space with her own arm.

This simply means that the manga version is more accurate: Ryougi can manifest a line representing the death of an abstract concept and trace it with her hand. It's slightly lower than simply thinking things out of existence, but it's the same thing. You conveniently left out the part explicitly describing the dimension's boundaries as being abstract and intangible, on top of the actual space being infinite but having operational boundaries/limits that Ryougi could see. There are no physical "walls". The quote you sent even says that the "walls" were "impossible" aka non-physical. lol. As for Archetype having no Death, that's irrelevant. Araya had no Death either, yet Ryougi killed him, by cutting the threads tying him into physical reality and moving his physical body, even if his essence remained immortal. Types can also be physically destroyed, as stated and shown. So it's the same thing. The very fact you can destroy their body proves that they are not beyond the End/being stopped, even if they don't die in conventional terms. They simply have faint threads allowing them to participate in reality that Ryougi can eventually perceive with effort, just like with Araya. Since Araya has actually a superior form of immortality to Types (Stillness makes his essence unable to change or move, making it beyond death by default). The novel even states that even infinity can be killed by her due to requiring the finite aka real numbers as a foundation. Only Akasha itself cannot be killed by MEoDP. You can't read. You can't grasp what you send or what you read. You can't keep a consistent interpretation of the series. You can't do anything right in relation to KnK lol. Even Fate and Tsukihime which you and your little group of trolls wank beyond belief your lot misinterprets and twists to fit your own needs and your group cannot even be consistent with those series. Hence, I have no reason to take anything what you or or your group say and appealing to foolish idiots that are in the majority is ignorant and a logical fallacy aka appeal to common belief fallacy which is what you do to shoot down whenever someone makes or proves TM is strong.

 

[Wankbreaker]

This simply means that the manga version is more accurate: Ryougi can manifest a line representing the death of an abstract concept and trace it with her hand. It's slightly lower than simply thinking things out of existence, but it's the same thing. You conveniently left out the part explicitly describing the dimension's boundaries as being abstract and intangible, on top of the actual space being infinite but having operational boundaries/limits that Ryougi could see. There are no physical "walls".

Bounded Fields have walls knit with magical energy,or selected space thats cut off.

Defined as boundaries that divide the world, barriers have the meaning of “punctuation.” Magically, however, barriers serve to separate inside from outside, and then enact an effect on the inside, or the boundary line itself.
Two types of barriers exist. The first applies a process on terrain, buildings, etc. to create a boundary between inside and outside. The second involves encircling a prepared component and then cutting the space off. The former includes wards that are used to protect a magus’ mansion or land, designed as defensive measures against other magi, or security measures. The latter would include uses such as the encircling of a specific ground area using rope woven from hair imbued with mystic energy, the drawing of magic circles, and so forth.

The quote you sent even says that the "walls" were "impossible" aka non-physical. lol. As for Archetype having no Death, that's irrelevant. Araya had no Death either, yet Ryougi killed him, by cutting the threads tying him into physical reality and moving his physical body, even if his essence remained immortal.

Only Araya's soul lacks death, his body is just a puppet replica.
impossible doesnt mean non-physical, what? it's called impossible because of its spatial isolation

Types can also be physically destroyed, as stated and shown. So it's the same thing. The very fact you can destroy their body proves that they are not beyond the End/being stopped, even if they don't die in conventional terms. They simply have faint threads allowing them to participate in reality that Ryougi can eventually perceive with effort, just like with Araya. Since Araya has actually a superior form of immortality to Types (Stillness makes his essence unable to change or move, making it beyond death by default). The novel even states that even infinity can be killed by her due to requiring the finite aka real numbers as a foundation. Only Akasha itself cannot be killed by MEoDP. You can't read.

any resulting "death" for TYPEs isnt actually permanent. We see this with V/V and Arc, and even the crimson moon. Its even stated that the concept of a "wound" doesnt really exist for them.

"I cant read"

By the way, the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can’t kill it. It does not possess the concept of death, so you'll have to destroy it physically.

the MEODP is said verbatim to not work.

You can't grasp what you send or what you read. You can't keep a consistent interpretation of the series. You can't do anything right in relation to KnK lol. Even Fate and Tsukihime which you and your little group of trolls wank beyond belief your lot misinterprets and twists to fit your own needs and your group cannot even be consistent with those series. Hence, I have no reason to take anything what you or or your group say and appealing to foolish idiots that are in the majority is ignorant and a logical fallacy aka appeal to common belief fallacy which is what you do to shoot down whenever someone makes or proves TM is strong.

"i'm not wrong! all of you are idiots and wrong instead!"
is that what this sums up to?

sure, TM is a strong mid tier verse, but it doesnt stand up to the big boys like shinza, umineko, etc.

Fate and Tsukihime both scale far beyond KNK. this is a fact.

 

[Huesito88]

Curious completely ignoring Tiering and Scaling stuff (even though Tiering can dedicate how strong ones hax is) Breaker, what are your thoughts on Nasuverse's Hax? Both defensively (resistance) and offensively. Do you think they're defense/offensive hax gods or as haxless as some DBZ characters at both?

 

[Wankbreaker]

Curious completely ignoring Tiering and Scaling stuff (even though Tiering can dedicate how strong ones hax is) Breaker, what are your thoughts on Nasuverse's Hax? Both defensively (resistance) and offensively. Do you think they're defense/offensive hax gods or as haxless as some DBZ characters at both?

a lot of the top characters do have a lot of hax, but most of characters have nothing of particular note.

There are a few hax gods in nasu... and ryougi and araya arent one of them

 

[Huesito88]

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@TheSilverKing14 Do not be rude to people. Telling people they "Can not read" or calling them "Idiots" is not something we condone here. Thank you.

 

[Fubuki_of_the_Snow]

I haven't been here in a while now... just here to update I'm still working on the verse-wide Nasuverse revamps. I've been very overwhelmed by real life recently, but soon I'm getting to the stage where I can constantly write. For now I'd say; the Servant Physiology revamp page is about 75% complete, a visual example of the new Servant formatting is about 50% complete (I've also made additional demonstration pages for Stay Night characters that are being worked on), the new verse page revamp is about 30% complete and I'm still working in my notes on the new terminology/explanation page, so no percentage for that yet.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Cu alters materials imply he can fight MMC Emiya until the “end of time”


what

 

[Fezzih_007]

Cu alters materials imply he can fight MMC Emiya until the “end of time”


what

Can you post a link?

 

[Wankbreaker]

Can you post a link?

Interlude
A Disaster-Class enemy found in Chapter Five.
At this point, since you are the main character, you might as well summon a certain Archer wearing a Mythological Mystic Code, and have the two of them fight in a mysterious space until the end of time.
So, how about it?

I don’t have the raws on me,but beasts lair TLs are generally reliable

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Cu alters materials imply he can fight MMC Emiya until the “end of time”


what

Where?

 

[Wankbreaker]

Where?

I sent the relevant paragraph

 

[Fezzih_007]

Where?

Is apparently in his fgo profile, after you finish his interlude.

That's probally a nothing burger of statement tbh.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Is apparently in his fgo profile, after you finish his interlude.

That's probally a nothing burger of statement tbh.

It makes a direct reference to Cu Alters supposed power though

 

[Fezzih_007]

It makes a direct reference to Cu Alters supposed power though

Yeah, but like, Cu alter being 6D don't make much sense, so

 

[Wankbreaker]

Yeah, but like, Cu alter being 6D don't make much sense, so

unless none of them are 6d at all, Tiamat is a literal 4th dimensional pocket if you count her sea of life, and she scales to Amaterasu

 

[Tdjwo]

Do you ever get tired at all lmfao. Bro just ignores every 6D feats and statements and cherrypicks any irrelevant antifeats

 

[Wankbreaker]

Do you ever get tired at all lmfao. Bro just ignores every 6D feats and statements and cherrypicks any irrelevant antifeats

How is a 4th dimensional space pocket suddenly 6D?


I don’t know if you noticed but 6 does not equal 4

 

[Tdjwo]

Who claimed it was 6D?

 

[Tdjwo]

Like check the profiles first before typing stuff

 

[Wankbreaker]

Who claimed it was 6D?

you’re defending the current scaling, which scales Tiamat to 6D. (same tiamat is said to equal goetia btw, and Goetia is equal to Amaterasu,who scales far beyond the rest of the extra verse to the point that they cannot defeat her, with the exception of mooncell arc for some reason)

Tiamat’s volume is directly said to be infinite because the mud comprising her comes from a 4D pocket

 

[Wankbreaker]

Unlock: Primal Planet, Admiring the Sky
Height/Weight: 160 cm ~ 74000000 km²(3)・??kg
Source: Ancient Mesopotamian Mythology
Region: Mesopotamia
Alignment: Chaotic Evil　　Gender: Female
The black mud is also included in Tiamat’s height. However, the mud is made of imaginary numbers, so her weight is unquantifiable.
Meanwhile, Tiamat’s volume is infinite. In other words, she is a four-dimensional pocket.

Unlock: Primal Planet, Admiring the Sky
Tiamat is the womb that was cast aside after the world was created.
She is the Maternal Sea who was used as the soil to give birth to life, but once the Earth’s environment settled and ecosystems were established, Tiamat was deemed unnecessary and driven out into the world of imaginary numbers. (The Inner World. Lifeless imaginary number space, not a parallel universe.)

 

[Tdjwo]

All these sounds like blabbering to me. Tiamat is 6D. Her possessing a 4D ability doesn't mean she caps at 4D tf?

 

[Wankbreaker]

All these sounds like blabbering to me. Tiamat is 6D. Her possessing a 4D ability doesn't mean she caps at 4D tf?

She, herself is the 4D pocket. it isn’t just an ability that she possesses (that’s why it’s included in her height and volume, lol)

 

[Tdjwo]

She, herself is the 4D pocket. it isn’t just an ability that she possesses (that’s why it’s included in her height and volume, lol)

No that's false. She is not the Sea of Life. But it's added to her height. There's literally a image and description showcasing how she exists independently of it. It simply supplies her energy.

Sea of Life (EX Rank): Tiamat's true Authority, it's the "Sea From Which Life Itself is Sprung". Because the sea circulates the True Ether that existed from the Genesis of the Earth, magical energy is infinitely supplied to Beast II while she's within the sea.
The movement by which the Sea of Life extends its domain is referred to as the Chaos Tide. The substance of the Sea of Life is a Black mud pollutes that Saint Graphs and that fundamentally remakes any organism that enters unto the Sea as a "Child of Tiamat" that bears an arbitrary selection of the following skills: Environmental Modification, Environmental Fusion, and Unit Mitosis. Furthermore, the Children of Tiamat are imposed with Cellular Compulsion (細胞強制アミノギアス, Saibō KyōseiAmino Geas?), a cellular-level Geis — a Nitrogenous BaseWP Contract — that automatically renders them enemies of humanity.[1] Servants are no exception to the process. The weight of the black mud cannot be measured due to it being made of imaginary numbers, making its volume unlimited. In short, it is a four-dimensional pocket.[1] Kingu refers to the Sea as the Primordial Organism and the Sea of Chaos -- further stating that, amongst practitioners of Magecraft, the Black Mud is the substance referred to as the Mud of the Grail.[15]

Also, even if we concluded she is infact the 4D pocket, why does that restrict her dimensional scaling? You can be physically 4D but still scale higher via feats or powerscaling. Like I don't have to explain something this basic to you.
Also, Tiamat has a weight. The black mud doesn't. Further telling us she isn't the black mud itself. It's simply an authority of hers