Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[Violatas]

Eh, it's still something considering she doesn't die to them.

(Also, Neco-Arc's Last Arc blows up the galaxy, but that's been pretty contentious on site, from what I know).

We don't know how she faired against them either. And going by her performance in MBTL, she likely jobbed. Neco Arc is a jobber.

I was mostly talking about the statement that places Divine Spirits on the level of the Dead Apostle Ancestors. The Remake cast already kind of do, and likely will scale to characters who scale to Divine Spirits, ergo, they scale to the original stuff too.

DAAs should be higher than this. And I can recheck but the Jester statement doesn't hard lock them at "Divine Spirit level" since he said they're needed to "compete" with Ishtar which would mean we know they can at least fight her, unless Divine Spirits are suddenly scale past True Ancestors as well which nothing suggests tmk. Although I will say that would mostly still depend on the DAA since Osiris as was mentioned earlier doesn't have same scaling or statements like Nrvnqsr or Night of Wallachia or Whitewing, ect.

Then again, I just remembered that The Adventures of Lord El-Melloi II has Van-Fem (who remember is a Dead Apostle since Ancestors don't exist in Fate worlds) fight Zagreus (an actual Divine Spirit), and it likely draws more from the Remake since it this volume released last year.

I don't have any issues with that. Like I said before the inverse scaling for DAAs seems more or less the same between both versions.

... Actually, wait, I forgot Ciel and Arcueid in Fate/Grand Order are from Tsukihime Remake, so there's that. Ciel also has weapons that can blow up Planets, so uh, that's a thing.

GO Ciel is weird though

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

It is located on a hill. It doesn't say it's where the Tohno mansion is. That doesn't even make sense to say in the story because that's a meta statement.

To think it's replacing the Tohno mansion location is to assume there's only one hill in Misaki Town.

If I recall correctly, it's stated to be the only place located that far away from town. Plus, it's stated that Aoko's family are the overseers of Misaki Town and own pretty much all of the spiritual land there (the Kuonji manor was built on land gifted to them by the Aozaki family). If there was another powerful family who controlled spiritual land and acted as "overseers" of the town, they would've been mentioned in Witch on the Holy Night.

There's a difference between illogical and logical character development. Shiki randomly having the desire to go in the complete opposite direction of her origin and downgrade her level of intelligence doesn't make sense. It also completely destroys the narrative of KnK.

I don't think having the desire to start a family with the man she loved was "random" at all, nor do I see how it destroys the narrative of The Garden of Sinners. It feels like the natural endpoint of their relationship.

Funniest part is, we know Future Gospel takes place in Fate Worlds due to Case Files anyways, which already separates it from KnK, ignoring how it contradicts it.

I mean, what about The Garden of Sinners prevents it from exisiting in Fate worlds?

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

We don't know how she faired against them either. And going by her performance in MBTL, she likely jobbed. Neco Arc is a jobber.

Neco-Arc is a jobber, but she is... I don't know where I was going with this joke.

We'll just have to wait and see if they actually finish the storylines set up by Neco-Arc with og Len actually doing something.

DAAs should be higher than this. And I can recheck but the Jester statement doesn't hard lock them at "Divine Spirit level" since he said they're needed to "compete" with Ishtar which would mean we know they can at least fight her, unless Divine Spirits are suddenly scale past True Ancestors as well which nothing suggests tmk. Although I will say that would mostly still depend on the DAA since Osiris as was mentioned earlier doesn't have same scaling or statements like Nrvnqsr or Night of Wallachia or Whitewing, ect.

You are correct. The statement itself mostly brings Divine Spirits up to the level of Dead Apostle Ancestors.

I don't have any issues with that. Like I said before the inverse scaling for DAAs seems more or less the same between both versions.

Cool.

GO Ciel is weird though

She's Tsukihime Remake Ciel, for the most part. She just ended up in the Servantverse after Arcueid atomized her.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Son, STOP lying. S.T.O.P. How the HELL is Touko in her early 20s when her younger sister went to high school EIGHT years prior to the story?

blame the novel for any inconsistency

There's bound to be differences in an adaption, which is still not the same as a remake.

an adaptation doesn’t change important things like removing antagonists, changing the ages of characters, and even changing what school she goes to, or the type of school she goes to.

None of this supports Nasu's statement either regarding Aoko's age, so it's pointless.



This means nothing. You do know Touko's appearance changed depending on the edition of the KnK novel, right?

The Touko scan is talking about Aoko taking 10 years to figure out the Fifth Magic, not 10 years to master it. Also dude, READ. Nasu said that, in KnK, Mahoyo did not happen AT ALL, that Aoko is STILL a teenager, and that Aoko does not have the Fifth AT ALL. I cited factual sources proving that neither of those 3 things are remotely true. The end. You haven't addressed ANYTHING. All you referenced was Aoko taking her ten years in the future to get stronger against Touko, but Nasu is saying that this very same fight against Touko did NOT HAPPEN AT ALL. Which is just objectively false. Can you get this through your thick skull? Or are you going to once again cite something completely unrelated just to make me lose brain cells once again?

1. didn’t say mahoyo never happened
2. says Aoko is a “little bit older”
3. not being regarded as miss blue doesn’t equal not having the fifth magic. touko doesn’t go and say “oh…. ITS BLUE-SAN” the moment aoko starts using the fifth magic

This isn't concrete enough, as what is considered to be "a little" is subjective. We already know her younger sister is well past her twenties in KnK.

apply the same thing to the earlier statement.

...............................

Oh my god.

Are you referring to this?




Please, don't tell me you are referring to this.

Neco.....This quote is clearly talking about Touko BACK when she first met Alba and Araya, in the PAST, when she was still in her 20s. She surpassed Alba as a magus at that time. This isn't some current comparison...


Let’s recap your track record with the Kara no Kyoukai novel:

1. You claimed Asagami and Kirie share the same Origin as Ryougi, despite the narrative clearly stating otherwise. If that were the case, Araya would have used them for his plan.
2. You argued that Araya wanted the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception to complete his plan, even though he explicitly said he’d destroy them and was only after Void’s power and body.
3. You completely misunderstood the context of Touko's age in the story.
4. You defended MF, which directly contradicts the established characters of Shiki and Mikiya.
5. You made an offhand comment about Araya’s barriers being not being that great, even though I was giving a BASIC description of them.
6. You claimed the soul’s personality and the body’s personality are separate, when the Epilogue clearly states they’re the same.
7. You insisted that Asagami’s distortion is "the strongest ability," ignoring that it refers to physical/numerical terms and is powerless against abstract abilities like MEoDP, which literally negated it once Shiki could see its death.
8. And perhaps most absurdly, you once claimed that the Earth is greater than Akasha.

Your interpretations make Kara no Kyoukai lose all coherence.

1. araya himself says so, and I showed you scans from the anime. Alba doesn’t care about the root, so his ideas just come from araya. alba helps araya out, he helps alba kill Touko.

2. the anime, lol

3. nah, albas age is 50 on the dot. touko was in the clock tower before mahoyo, which is 8 years from knk. let’s say 1-2 years. Alba says he’s been a mage for 40 years.
so you’re telling me alba started learning magecraft either from before he was born, up to the age of 2? probably before he could even walk, talk, or read? you’re definitely going to need the latter 2 to start learning magecraft.

4. i guess you really hate mana, lol

5. yea, not that great if a normal demon, not even a true demon can break through them

6. shiki literally says she’s just a body, an empty vessel. meaning no soul to occupy it.
also, refer to fate extra.

7. it’s referring to everyone and everything in the story compared simply in the terms of numbers.

Shiki starts to run. Her speed is incredible, despite the pooling water and violent wind. It should not take more than three seconds to reduce the distance between them from ten meters to zero. Enough time to bring Fujino's frail body to the ground and stab her in her heart. But even that speed cannot match the speed of sight. Shiki has to close in on her target while Fujino only has to look at her target. For the two, that difference of three seconds is too long.

"........."

Fujino's eyes glimmer. The left eye for a rotation to the left. The right eye for a rotation to the right. Taking Shiki's head and left leg as the fulcrums, she twists. A strange sensation occurs instantaneously. The moment Shiki feels the invisible power upon her, she jumps explosively to one side. But the power on Shiki does not weaken. Fujino's power is not a projectile weapon. Even if one gets away from one round, it is impossible to get completely away from it whilst in her vision.

...... Damn......!!

Shiki realizes Fujino's power is stronger than she thought. She runs. As if to escape from her vision, Shiki runs in a circle around Fujino.

"I am...... stronger."

The pain in her stomach gets worse by the second. Withstanding the pain, Fujino makes her way down. She has to settle her match with Ryougi Shiki now.

Darkness engulfs the parking lot. Visibility is bad, making it hard to walk. It feels like being in a miniature town. The metal poles and the stacks of materials are arranged like buildings. A few minutes after following Shiki down here, Fujino regrets choosing this place as the battleground. Her ability has to have the target in her vision to set the fulcrum of the twist. Even if Fujino knows that Shiki is hiding behind a metal pole, if she cannot see Shiki, then only the pole can be twisted. In that slight instant on top of the bridge, Shiki understood Fujino's power. That is why she ran away, here, the place where she has a chance of winning. ...Fujino realizes how inferior she is at fighting. But still...... She is stronger in terms of power. If she cannot see, she'll just have to destroy everything blocking her view. Fujino takes every metallic pole that might get in her way and bends them. As she twists each one, the pain in her stomach gets worse and the shaking in the parking lot gets harder.

"You're great, Asagami. You're the best...!"

She is losing blood quickly. She feels her consciousness slipping away.

...I'm hot-blooded anyway. If I lose some, it will just make me think more clearly...

Shiki concentrates. Asagami Fujino is a strong enemy that might be the best she'll ever meet. One mistake could cost her her life.

"Touko, she came up with clairvoyance in the end. She'll have a ridiculous amount of power if you leave her be."

"Clairvoyance, huh? Certainly, if you add that to her power, she'll be invincible. She would be able to make a fulcrum even if you are hiding... Huh? If you leave her be...?"

And yet, you had the nerve to create a thread mocking me for “defeating the purpose of KnK”? When you can’t even grasp basic plot points and common sense? You’re a living meme. It’s obvious you’ve never read the novel and know absolutely nothing about the material you’re trying to discuss. If your next comment contains the same baseless claims or fundamental misunderstandings that make the story fall apart, I’m going to ignore you again. You’re a blatant liar who will say anything to inflate your Arcueid.

don’t know what you’re talking about, but okay

Sigh

⑤ The details of the 5 magic are unknown, however we do know that bringing the dead back to life is a magic, and that Aozaki Aoko’s magic is known as “Magic - Blue.” - Tsukihime Dictionary - Magic

no correlation to her title, thanks

There is literally no difference. Stop lying. I think I know why you defend Nasu so much, you are a compulsive liar much like him. Birds of a feather, flock together.

ok

Fanfiction. She woke up when Osiris rewrote the world with her reality marble, noticing everyone in her town disappeared due to Tatari stuff. She then goes to Misaki Town under Void's urges.

shiki lives in Mifune. not Misaki. Osiris RM is only Misaki wide.

It's unclear because KnK does not directly address that journey, but it clearly references it through Touko, which is more than enough to disprove Nasu's dumb statement.

Neco, I'm going to be blunt. You are genuinely the most ridiculous, intellectually lazy and hilarious person I've ever had the misfortune of debating. This isn’t even meant as an insult. You seriously need help. It’s baffling that you’re going to such lengths just for a waifu. You consistently fail to grasp basic logic, make baseless claims about stories you’ve never read, and struggle to assess IRL human capabilities.

You don’t even address all of my points. Instead, you cherry-pick a few and respond with what amounts to fanfiction or blatant misunderstandings.

not sure who that is, but I’ve noticed you’re guilty of the same.

I’m serious, if your next comment is as off-the-rails as this one, I’m done. I’ll only respond to any sane points you might eventually bring up (Which are incredibly rare).

okay, as in your words:

concession accepted

 

[HyperZero95]

If I recall correctly, it's stated to be the only place located that far away from town

Just because the Tohno Mansion is also on a hill in a forest doesn't mean it's equally as far away.

Plus, it's stated that Aoko's family are the overseers of Misaki Town and own pretty much all of the spiritual land there (the Kuonji manor was built on land gifted to them by the Aozaki family). If there was another powerful family who controlled spiritual land and acted as "overseers" of the town, they would've been mentioned in Witch on the Holy Night.

The Tohno family doesn't oversee the spiritual land, and they only oversee supernatural entities, mainly their own kind. What they're involved in is not exactly the same.

I don't think having the desire to start a family with the man she loved was "random" at all, nor do I see how it destroys the narrative of The Garden of Sinners. It feels like the natural endpoint of their relationship.

You ignored literally everything I wrote in my previous comment. Actually, let me post a summary of Ryougi's entire character arc and explain why her having a family and becoming the head of her own makes no sense, mind you though, it's obviously quite lenghty:

Spoiler

From the start, Shiki’s life was devoid of genuine affection. She was raised to be a successor, not as a daughter. The only semblance of love she received came from SHIKI, the other self inside her. While SHIKI’s love was profound and unparalleled, it was also a double-edged sword. It made Shiki acutely aware of how incapable humans were of such unconditional love, further alienating her from them. The murderous impulses she believed came from SHIKI only deepened her isolation. To her, the only person who cared for her was also a source of great danger, making her fear that any semblance of normalcy or connection would eventually be tainted by violence. These impulses made her see humanity as inherently flawed and distasteful. She hated the idea of being a slave to these primal urges, which she thought would make her even worse than the humans she despised.Adding to her misery was her grandfather’s doctrine, which instilled in her a bleak outlook: kill, and you’ll end up alone and despised. Which only made Shiki feel even more doomed. Shiki spent her life training to become something she didn't care about, surrounded by people she saw as unworthy of her time. The one bright spot in her life was SHIKI, but even that was overshadowed by the inevitable reality that her moments of happiness were fleeting and doomed to end in isolation.

Then came Mikiya, a symbol of stability and normalcy that seemed almost miraculous to Shiki. For a while, he represented everything she had ever dreamed of, someone who made her emptiness feel meaningful. But Mikiya's presence also disrupted the uneasy balance with SHIKI. Shiki knew that eventually, she would lose control and that SHIKI would destroy Mikiya, which led her to distance herself from him, believing it would be less cruel to be away from something beautiful that she couldn’t protect. Resigned to her fate, Shiki found Mikiya’s unwavering faith in her both crushing and oddly hopeful. His belief, despite everything, was like a cruel joke, offering a fleeting illusion of a dream she thought was forever out of reach.As her emotional state deteriorated, Shiki contemplated ending Mikiya's life herself to protect him from the destruction she feared would come from SHIKI. But the unexpected intervention by Araya Souren, who saved Mikiya, gave Shiki a brief moment of clarity. Unable to reconcile her own feelings and her failure to protect Mikiya, Shiki resolved that if she couldn’t make him disappear, her only remaining choice was to end her own life. This resolution triggered a series of events that left her in a coma for two years, drifting in Akasha, a desolate void where she was left to confront nothingness and death.Waking up to find SHIKI gone, the one being who had truly loved her, was devastating. On top of that, her memories were fragmented, and the Shiki Ryougi she remembered felt like a distant stranger. The void within her only grew deeper, and the discovery of her Mystic Eyes of Death Perception revealed a world teetering on the brink of oblivion. They showed her that the Death she experienced those 2 years was actually always around the corner, and that all things are but one step away from fading away. This insight was overwhelming, pushing her to the brink of destroying her own eyes in a desperate attempt to escape her existential dread.

Yet, even in her darkest moments, Mikiya’s unwavering presence was a beacon of consistency. As she struggled with her lingering impulses and her identity, she found solace in Mikiya's constancy and the reminder from Touko that SHIKI had died for a reason, to give her a chance to fulfill their dream. Driven by this realisation, Shiki chose to honor SHIKI’s memory by trying to make something meaningful out of her life and build an identity of her own free from the torments of the past, even as she feared her own impulses would ultimately ruin everything. After meeting Lio and seeing a twisted reflection of herself in him, Shiki begins to doubt her ability to control her impulses. This leads her to consider abandoning her hope for a normal life with Mikiya. However, Shiki’s belief that she would lose control of her murder impulses after killing a normal person was proven incorrect. This misconception is challenged when she, believing Mikiya to be dead, kills Lio, a person who, despite his madness, still possesses a normal part of himself. After committing this act, Shiki discovers that Mikiya is alive and realizes she can control her murderous urges even after killing someone within the bounds of normalcy.

Ultimately, Shiki's final revelation is that as long as Mikiya is alive, her entire world, she can suppress her urges for mindless massacres and maintain a normal life with him. She learns that committing murder for what she deems a valid reason will not necessarily lead her to succumb to mindless violence. This realization also disproves her grandfather's deluded philosophy that killing even once would inevitably lead to further violence.
The hug with Mikiya at the end of Shiki’s journey is profoundly powerful, perhaps the first real embrace she’s ever known. It symbolizes not just the end of her trials but the fulfillment of a dream that had seemed forever out of reach. The ending of Kara no Kyoukai is a testament to Shiki’s endurance and her deserving of the love and happiness she ultimately finds. By the end, Shiki realizes that as long as Mikiya is with her, she can consistently suppress her murderous urges. Even if she were to kill for reasons she considers valid, that experience alone will not cause her to fall into mindless violence. Her commitment to a normal life with Mikiya outweighs her innate impulses, proving that her love for him is strong enough to maintain her control and reject the path of senseless violence.

And yet I'm supposed to believe that Ryougi would suddenly return to her family, whom she had little regard for, and comply with their expectations? It's even harder to believe that she would then succumb to typical human instincts (When her entire story is fighting these urges or instincts mind you. With those common in humans being one of the reasons she hates people) and decide to have a daughter. Given Shiki’s and Mikiya’s natures, both of which seem to reject such conventional desires. This development feels out of character. Shiki is deeply aware of humanity’s flaws and her own fundamental differences from them. Her primary attachment is to Mikiya, who represents the only source of meaning and connection in her life. So why would she bring a child into the world, knowing that this new life might inherit the very traits she despises? The prospect of their daughter potentially suffering a grim fate or growing up to cause suffering herself is also troubling, especially considering the likelihood of her inheriting the Ryougi family’s dual personality trait. This could mean she’d end up as conflicted and miserable as Shiki’s grandfather, unable to balance her darker impulses without the Origin of Nothingness that Shiki herself possesses.

It's perplexing to think that Shiki and Mikiya would genuinely desire a child, as this contradicts both their worldviews and inherent natures. Shiki harbors a deep-seated hatred for humanity, and her very essence is tied to rejection and destruction. While she can resist these impulses for Mikiya’s sake, doing so already demands immense willpower. Creating life, a complete reversal of her origin, would be an even greater stretch. Moreover, having a daughter would mean bringing a new human into the world, a prospect that seems at odds with Shiki’s disdain for the average human being. This child could either be like those Shiki despises or inherit the Ryougi’s dual personality trait, which brought Shiki immense suffering throughout her life.

As for Mikiya, his character is centered around neutrality and stability, to the point where his desire for normalcy is almost abnormal. He has no interest in anything beyond a simple, content life, even going so far as to refuse Void Shiki's wish-granting because he was already satisfied with what he had. For someone like Mikiya, having a child and becoming deeply entwined with the Ryougi family's complexities represents a drastic change he wouldn’t naturally seek. Lastly, Mana, who resembles Azaka in her competitive desire to "beat" Shiki and win over Mikiya, disrupts the peaceful life Shiki and Mikiya worked so hard to achieve throughout the novel.

The core issue with the modern interpretation of Shiki and Mikiya’s relationship stem from a fundamental misunderstanding of their characters. Their bond isn't meant to reflect humanity’s ability to forge connections despite adversity or to embrace human struggles, no, that's a twisted view to fit with Modern TM's and Nasu's agenda to spread humanist propaganda and promote progress over all else, including happiness. Instead, they are portrayed as outliers, individuals with fundamentally different mindsets from the average person. Mikiya is an exception, content with a simple, stable life, while Shiki's emptiness finds solace in this rare connection. The narrative of Kara no Kyoukai emphasizes that their strength lies in their unique natures and the way they complement each other, not in conforming to traditional human experiences or expectations.Thus, the notion of disrupting their peace with a child or deeply involving themselves with the Ryougi family contradicts the core themes of the story. Shiki’s journey is about finding meaning and stability in her own way, not about embracing or replicating human norms and struggles. Nasu's claim in an interview that she lacks “strength of mind” or that her later depictions in Mirai Fukuin and especially GO is a distortion of what makes her story compelling and unique. A complete character assassination. a misstep that doesn’t align with the core themes of Kara no Kyoukai, which focus on individuals who are fundamentally different from the norm and find meaning in their unique ways. This is why MF is objectively a contradiction to the story and not canon.

I mean, what about The Garden of Sinners prevents it from exisiting in Fate worlds?

Because its lore is tied with Tsukihime and Mahoyo, while Fate is basically it's own thing that doesn't have anything to do with the older series, aside from stealing its lore and butchering it. Furthermore, there are many sources saying it takes place in Tsukihime, and then we have Ryougi outright appearing in Melty Blood, and Kishima Kouma referencing Araya Souren in Act Cadenza. So if MF is in Fate Worlds, it's not really the same one as the original, which takes place in Tsukihime worlds. And maybe that's why she is so different.

 

[Violatas]

She's Tsukihime Remake Ciel, for the most part. She just ended up in the Servantverse after Arcueid atomized her.

I don't think you have tag that since just about everyone here knows lol (and likely don't care tbh).
Anyways GO Ciel is also stated to be amped above her normal stats sooooooo

I will say even without that the Tsukihime Remake would still scale high by inverse hierarchy at least

 

[Wankbreaker]

I don't think you have tag that since just about everyone here knows lol (and likely don't care tbh).
Anyways GO Ciel is also stated to be amped above her normal stats sooooooo

I will say even without that the Tsukihime Remake would still scale high by inverse hierarchy at least

ciel is “bumped down to normal” outside the servant verse though, and it seems like only her first NP is buffed?

regardless outside of servant verse (she will appear in OC3,most likely), it’s safe to scale her to normal Tsuki re Ciel

Ciel also references Misaki Town in her profile,not sure why that is

 

[Violatas]

ciel is “bumped down to normal” outside the servant verse though

Her 5th bond outright describes her as "Ultra Ciel" and says her armament is amped to fit the Servantverse. She's explicitly above her normal stats. Although where was the "bumped down" ever said?

And I mean if she appears in OC3 then sure whatever really.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Her 5th bond outright describes her as "Ultra Ciel" and says her armament is amped to fit the Servantverse. She's explicitly above her normal stats. Although where was the "bumped down" ever said?

Its sheer destructive power (the ability to break through spacetime) is said to be capable of piercing a planet. However, outside the Sapphire Galaxy, it has been scaled down to conventional levels.

And I mean if she appears in OC3 then sure whatever really.

 

[HyperZero95]

Just going to address three points that makes it very clear Neco is not worth...Anyone's time and is just a shitposter:

-One: Touko's age. Neco said:

nah, albas age is 50 on the dot. touko was in the clock tower before mahoyo, which is 8 years from knk. let’s say 1-2 years. Alba says he’s been a mage for 40 years.
so you’re telling me alba started learning magecraft either from before he was born, up to the age of 2? probably before he could even walk, talk, or read? you’re definitely going to need the latter 2 to start learning magecraft.

I legit sat down straight for 10 minutes trying to comprehend this. Almost as if I was in front of some ancient caveman drawning with a hidden message behind it.

So let's take a step back now:

According to KnK, Alba is over Fifty years old at the time of Paradox Spiral:

The face of the handsome young man whose age has passed fifty contorts with hatred. - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

And he said he has been a mage for over 40 years:

"Yes. You were always like that. You always underestimated me like that. I specialized in Rune before you. I was also the one who was famed as a dollmaker, I alone. But those feeble-minded idiots were fooled by that attitude of yours. Your condescending attitude, it gave them the impression that I was inferior to you. It's obvious if you think about it! I'm the director of Suponheim, aren't I? I have spent over forty years as a mage. So why was it that I had to be below a little girl who had just entered her twenties...?!" - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

So...
Let's pick the lowest possibility, that being KnK Alba is 51. He has been a mage for over 40 years, so let's say 43 to highball:

51-43 = 8, still realistically able to learn magecraft.


Neco's reasoning is flawed, and the math doesn't add up. The claim that Alba would have started learning magecraft at 0-2 years old if he's been a mage for 40 years and is 50 years old is based on a simple arithmetic error. In reality, if Alba is 50 and has been practicing magecraft for over 40 years, he would have started around age 10, which is entirely reasonable. The basic subtraction (50 years old - 40 years as a mage = starting at age 10) is straightforward and doesn't lead to any absurd conclusions.

It's concerning that such a basic error was made. Even Arcueid, who might act naive at times, could grasp this concept. Again, actually take up my suggestion and seek professional help. I know Arcueid acts purposely stupid sometimes, but even she should be capable of understanding the point. You don't need to regress in mental capacity to be like your idol.


-Two: I sent a quote stating that the Fifth Magic is called "Magic Blue":


⑤ The details of the 5 magic are unknown, however we do know that bringing the dead back to life is a magic, and that Aozaki Aoko’s magic is known as “Magic - Blue.” - Tsukihime Dictionary - Magi

His answer:

no correlation to her title, thanks

Aoko being called Miss Blue has no correlation to being the wielder of the Fifth Magic, aka Magic Blue. Impossible! Who would have ever thought!


Oh and...

-Three: He also blatantly lied here:

shiki lives in Mifune. not Misaki. Osiris RM is only Misaki wide.

Dust of Osiris' Reality Marble is explicitly planetary in scale:

So Neco has, elegantly and skillfully, confirmed everything I have said about him in 3 simple lines: That he is unable to grasp basic logic and that he blatantly lies about the series. How exactly can I take him seriously on discussions about complex verses such as Type Moon?

I genuinely feel like I'm dealing with a flat earther at this point.

Now you'll excuse me, but I will try to go read "Voice of a Monk" where Araya fights against his Alzheimer and finally realizes he had Kirie and Asagami all along to complete his plan and didn't actually need Ryougi.

 

[John985]

It took tons of SQ just to get everyone......

WE NEED A LOTTERY EVENT!!!!

 

[Wankbreaker]

Just going to address three points that makes it very clear Neco is not worth...Anyone's time and is just a shitposter:

-One: Touko's age. Neco said:



I legit sat down straight for 10 minutes trying to comprehend this. Almost as if I was in front of some ancient caveman drawning with a hidden message behind it.

So let's take a step back now:

According to KnK, Alba is over Fifty years old at the time of Paradox Spiral:



And he said he has been a mage for over 40 years:



So...
Let's pick the lowest possibility, that being KnK Alba is 51. He has been a mage for over 40 years, so let's say 43 to highball:

51-43 = 8, still realistically able to learn magecraft.


Neco's reasoning is flawed, and the math doesn't add up. The claim that Alba would have started learning magecraft at 0-2 years old if he's been a mage for 40 years and is 50 years old is based on a simple arithmetic error. In reality, if Alba is 50 and has been practicing magecraft for over 40 years, he would have started around age 10, which is entirely reasonable. The basic subtraction (50 years old - 40 years as a mage = starting at age 10) is straightforward and doesn't lead to any absurd conclusions.

Cornelius Alba [Person's name]
Magus. An old friend of Touko's.
Rumour had it that this young man was the next director in line of the Sponheim Abbey, an organization within the Clock Tower.
Although he was fifty years old, he had the appearance of a handsome youth.

and you’re saying he’s talking about the time in the clock tower,so subtract 8.

42.

It's concerning that such a basic error was made. Even Arcueid, who might act naive at times, could grasp this concept. Again, actually take up my suggestion and seek professional help. I know Arcueid acts purposely stupid sometimes, but even she should be capable of understanding the point. You don't need to regress in mental capacity to be like your idol.


-Two: I sent a quote stating that the Fifth Magic is called "Magic Blue":


⑤ The details of the 5 magic are unknown, however we do know that bringing the dead back to life is a magic, and that Aozaki Aoko’s magic is known as “Magic - Blue.” - Tsukihime Dictionary - Magi

His answer:


Aoko being called Miss Blue has no correlation to being the wielder of the Fifth Magic, aka Magic Blue. Impossible! Who would have ever thought!

i did not say this, all I said is that she did not gain the title the instant she received the magic, like how Aokos grandfather isn’t called mister blue or whatever. not a hard concept

Oh and...

-Three: He also blatantly lied here:



Dust of Osiris' Reality Marble is explicitly planetary in scale:

So Neco has, elegantly and skillfully, confirmed everything I have said about him in 3 simple lines: That he is unable to grasp basic logic and that he blatantly lies about the series. How exactly can I take him seriously on discussions about complex verses such as Type Moon?

I genuinely feel like I'm dealing with a flat earther at this point.

Now you'll excuse me, but I will try to go read "Voice of a Monk" where Araya fights against his Alzheimer and finally realizes he had Kirie and Asagami all along to complete his plan and didn't actually need Ryougi.

A Dead Apostle with the unique ability to converge upon rumors in a region and materialize them for a single night. Because it takes the form of what the people fear the most, they can neither defeat it nor escape it. The "Night of Wallachia" specifically refers to the reality marble that shuts away a town in that horror movie-like world.


Whether it manifests as an enormous beast big enough to smash an entire mountain village with a single step, or a real-life bloodthirsty killer, the only sure thing is that the community that gives the Tatari form will be totally annihilated.
wow, very planetary.

also, ciel says “as-if”.

yea, both the manga and anime adaptations say he needed the eyes.

even the fourth popularity poll says “「　」に至る魔眼”
or roughly: (Mystic eyes that lead to “ “ )

i know that guy must be your boogeyman from how often you mention them, but please don’t confuse anyone who goes against you for them

 

[Wankbreaker]

welll, now THAT is dealt with, thoughts on ordeal call 3?

 

[Wankbreaker]

ive actually noticed that void shiki fans are the most rotten of the bunch.

I mean my favorite heroine is Aoko, doesn’t mean im going to wank pre magic teen aoko to ORT or something

more reason to nuke her scaling, lol

 

[KingNanaya]

ive actually noticed that void shiki fans are the most rotten of the bunch.

Thank you

 

[Wankbreaker]

Thank you

i’m about the types who don’t care about shiki as a character, and just go around about “lol shes boundless” or idiotic stuff like “base shiki beats types”

 

[Synnian]

Completely unrelated note, as I generally am uninterested in continuing what Wankbreaker is currently pushing:

I've always wondered what would happen if Lostbelt Musashi fought Tohno Shiki. Their fighting styles and abilities clash in a way that you genuinely wouldn't see anywhere else. I'm wondering what people think on who wins on that topic?

Shiki's fighting style is an incredibly hard thing for Heavenly Eye to deal with, and they're both enormously skilled opponents, arguably equal to one another. Wondering what other people think, as I'm not able to figure it out myself.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Completely unrelated note, as I generally am uninterested in continuing what Wankbreaker is currently pushing:

I've always wondered what would happen if Lostbelt Musashi fought Tohno Shiki. Their fighting styles and abilities clash in a way that you genuinely wouldn't see anywhere else. I'm wondering what people think on who wins on that topic?

Shiki's fighting style is an incredibly hard thing for Heavenly Eye to deal with, and they're both enormously skilled opponents, arguably equal to one another. Wondering what other people think, as I'm not able to figure it out myself.

I don't think Shiki has anything to deal with Musashi's fate manipulation, but I could be wrong anyway.

 

[Tdjwo]

ive actually noticed that void shiki fans are the most rotten of the bunch.

I mean my favorite heroine is Aoko, doesn’t mean im going to wank pre magic teen aoko to ORT or something

more reason to nuke her scaling, lol

You've been crying for weeks now and only Hyperzero has the time to waste on you. You literally rids Tsukihime like your life depends on it and you act like Void Shiki fans are evil. Bruh just stfu and take your reddit opinions back to Marshadow

 

[Tdjwo]

And good luck "nuking" anything regarding Void Shiki. Let's see how successful that works out with how cemented and intertwined her profile is with the root

 

[Synnian]

I don't think Shiki has anything to deal with Musashi's fate manipulation, but I could be wrong anyway.

Anything to deal with the Fate Manipulation directly? Of course not. Other than him killing that concept with MEODP (which is a theoretical thing, and I'm not even sure he can do that in the first place, so I'm not arguing for it)

The issue is his fighting style. Whenever Shiki believes that he's going to die, like he did with Vlov or Akiha, he abandons all attempts to save himself in battle.

Doing this, for example with Vlov, his solution was "I will purposely let Vlov explode my head, and intertia/the commands I give my body will finish him off from there."

Seeing how THAT interacts with Heavenly Eye would be phenomenal.

 

[Wankbreaker]

You've been crying for weeks now and only Hyperzero has the time to waste on you. You literally rids Tsukihime like your life depends on it and you act like Void Shiki fans are evil. Bruh just stfu and take your reddit opinions back to Marshadow

blud doesn’t know he’s proving my point

they don’t like shiki for anything other than power scaling, so when that gets threatened:

 

[Synnian]

You've been crying for weeks now and only Hyperzero has the time to waste on you. You literally rids Tsukihime like your life depends on it and you act like Void Shiki fans are evil. Bruh just stfu and take your reddit opinions back to Marshadow

Hyper Zero said, word for word, that he refused to debate me after our argument and I called him out for both

1. Relying on a mistranslation
(inwhich, from what I hear, he tried to use AI to override the thoughts of someone who... actually speaks Japanese)

2. He tried to say that Shirou's Origin is "hero" in order to prove his point, when the only reason Shirou/Nameless has UBW in the first place... is because his Origin is "sword"

3. He tried saying that the concept of a 'natural born killer' is automatically tied to an Origin, which, even taking that at its best, is a headcanon if anything and has no relevancy in a definitive debate.

I would like to, please, leave this conversation aside as I have no interest in dealing with people who think that Nasu did not write Tsukihime or Kara no Kyoukai.

 

[Tdjwo]

blud doesn’t know he’s proving my point

they don’t like shiki for anything other than power scaling, so when that gets threatened:

And tell me exactly how my point proves yours. Nobody has said anything regarding powerscaling on this thread for MONTHS before you came. And the moment you did, you started yapping about Void Shiki and Tohno/Arcueid

Honestly, anyone that has anything to do with Marshadow automatically has their opinion invalidated to me. Keep yapping. I don't have time for you. Stick with arguing with Hyperzero.

 

[Wankbreaker]

I

Honestly, anyone that has anything to do with Marshadow automatically has their opinion invalidated to me. Keep yapping. I don't have time for you. Stick with arguing with Hyperzero.

1. If you can’t debate this topic,just say as much
2.Hyperzero is permanently banned

 

[Wankbreaker]

you guys think you know more than veteran community members + the translators for these same projects, it’s actually confusing

 

[Tdjwo]

Hyper Zero said, word for word, that he refused to debate me after our argument and I called him out for both

1. Relying on a mistranslation
(inwhich, from what I hear, he tried to use AI to override the thoughts of someone who... actually speaks Japanese)

2. He tried to say that Shirou's Origin is "hero" in order to prove his point, when the only reason Shirou/Nameless has UBW in the first place... is because his Origin is "sword"

3. He tried saying that the concept of a 'natural born killer' is automatically tied to an Origin, which, even taking that at its best, is a headcanon if anything and has no relevancy in a definitive debate.

I would like to, please, leave this conversation aside as I have no interest in dealing with people who think that Nasu did not write Tsukihime or Kara no Kyoukai.

I really don't care what you guys argue about. It's not my business. My point is Wankbreaker or whatever his name is called keeps insinuating that Void Shiki fans are horrible all because we don't share his shitty opinion on Tohno or Arcueid being superior which is something ridiculous to even think about considering the lore of KnK. He's been riding Arc and Tohno for a while now using arguments only someone like Marshadow would use.

 

[Synnian]

you guys think you know more than veteran community members + the translators for these same projects, it’s actually confusing

Once again, I will like to drop this topic altogether.

However, I do want to say that it is mildly hilarious that while this was going on, I had a friend of mine (who was apart of around 5 different KnK novelization translation teams) watching this and going "these people are making this up"

 

[Wankbreaker]

I really don't care what you guys argue about. It's not my business. My point is Wankbreaker or whatever his name is called keeps insinuating that Void Shiki fans are horrible all because we don't share his shitty opinion on Tohno or Arcueid being superior which is something ridiculous to even think about considering the lore of KnK. He's been riding Arc and Tohno for a while now using arguments only someone like Marshadow would use.

i really have no care for Arcueid scaling. the fact that people say BASE ryougi beats the second strongest character in the verse, only behind ORT is ridiculous

 

[Tdjwo]

I

1. If you can’t debate this topic,just say as much
2.Hyperzero is permanently banned

Whats there to debate really? It's like arguing that Goku is stronger than Zeno. Why would I argue with someone who denies the obvious? Arc vs Void Shiki is not up for debate. This is common knowledge. Void slams.

Idc for Hyperzero. All I'm saying is argue with him and don't mix Void Shiki fans together. I've seen Hyper's Araya arguments and I don't necessarily agree with them either. Do I care about it? No.

 

[Tdjwo]

you guys think you know more than veteran community members + the translators for these same projects, it’s actually confusing

"VeTeRaN cOmMuNiTy MeMbErS" Sure buddy
And most TM translators are shit anyways. Why should I always take them seriously?

 

[Wankbreaker]

Whats there to debate really? It's like arguing that Goku is stronger than Zeno. Why would I argue with someone who denies the obvious? Arc vs Void Shiki is not up for debate. This is common knowledge. Void slams.

clearly not obvious if the character herself denies the notion of having any godlike abilities,being incinerated by goetia, and indirectly says that the gap is so large between the two, that it seems like arc has no limits to her.

 

[Wankbreaker]

"VeTeRaN cOmMuNiTy MeMbErS" Sure buddy
And most TM translators are shit anyways. Why should I always take them seriously?

you’re using their same translations to argue for void shiki, so you already are.

 

[Tdjwo]

clearly not obvious if the character herself denies the notion of having any godlike abilities,being incinerated by goetia, and indirectly says that the gap is so large between the two, that it seems like arc has no limits to her.

See, the old me would have started debating this with you but honestly it's pointless. Make a crt and let's see then. I'm not wasting my time arguing with you.

 

[Tdjwo]

you’re using their same translations to argue for void shiki, so you already are.

The translations I use are gotten from someone I consider reputable.

 

[Wankbreaker]

See, the old me would have started debating this with you but honestly it's pointless. Make a crt and let's see then. I'm not wasting my time arguing with you.

we were told to “keep it on hold” until the root thread ends, so

asserting something, and refusing to defend that something is useless

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Anyway, I'm going to make a big post with all of the Ordeal Call III stuff right now.



The full 30 second lond trailer

https://static.atlasacademy.io/JP/CharaFigure/1098301900/1098301900_merged.png

Edison Alter

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f35kdb/bb_dubai_2nd_ascension_3rd_seems_to_be_story/

BB Dubai Second Ascension (Third and Fourth are locked for now)

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f35ldm/archetype_inception_bb_dubai_skills/

BB Dubai Skills (she's a very interesting support)



BB Dubai animations

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f35ibs/summer_mhxx_alter_ascension_portraits/

BB Duabi enemy exclusive animation

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f377kc/bb_dubais_profile/

BB Dubai's profile

Mysterious Heroine XX Alter Ascensions

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f35ivb/archetype_inception_mysterious_heroine_xx_alter/

MHXX Alter Skills



MHXX Alter animations

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f35grf/summer_tlaloc_ascension_portraits/

Summer Tlaloc Ascensions

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f35jsf/archetype_inception_tenochtitlan_moon_cancer/

Summer Tlaloc Skills



Summer Tlaloc animations

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f3dhmw/summer_tenochtitl%C3%A1ns_profile/

Summer Tlaloc's profile

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f35log/jp_ordeal_call_3_servants_bond_10_craft_essences/

All three of their Bond CE's

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f35n0x/new_ordeal_call_3_craft_essences/

New CE's

https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1f35iik/more_coins_have_been_awarded_for_bond_levels_as/

The additional Servant Coins per Bond Level have been added

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Anything to deal with the Fate Manipulation directly? Of course not. Other than him killing that concept with MEODP (which is a theoretical thing, and I'm not even sure he can do that in the first place, so I'm not arguing for it)

The issue is his fighting style. Whenever Shiki believes that he's going to die, like he did with Vlov or Akiha, he abandons all attempts to save himself in battle.

Doing this, for example with Vlov, his solution was "I will purposely let Vlov explode my head, and intertia/the commands I give my body will finish him off from there."

Seeing how THAT interacts with Heavenly Eye would be phenomenal.

The problem is that Musashi's Empyrean Eye sees all possibilities, and she can force the one specific possibility she wants out of the infinite number of them, and she can create one that didn't exist in that infinite number of possibilites to get the exact scenario she wants.

Plus, her swords on their own already cut fate, karma, destiny, etcetera.

 

[Synnian]

The problem is that Musashi's Empyrean Eye sees all possibilities, and she can force the one specific possibility she wants out of the infinite number of them, and she can create one that didn't exist in that infinite number of possibilites to get the exact scenario she wants.

Plus, her swords on their own already cut fate, karma, destiny, etcetera.

Sorry - I haven't finished FGO. Even if that "doesn't exist"? I thought, say, out of a million fights for example, she would win one, and that would be brought about to reality. Didn't she draw with Saber Diarmund?

How exactly does that negate his style of combat? Even if she were to kill him, which I'm sure there's at least one fight out there where she does, he'll plan on it and... cause himself to die in a way that kills her along with him.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Sorry - I haven't finished FGO. Even if that "doesn't exist"? I thought, say, out of a million fights for example, she would win one, and that would be brought about to reality. Didn't she draw with Saber Diarmund?

She did tie with him at some point, but I don't remember when.

What I'm talking about happens at the end of the Shimousa chapter.



Basically, Musashi and Kojiro do some dumb stuff.

This is entirely random, but I forgot that Mysterious Heroine X compares Musashi to Void Shiki (at least, in terms of the bad feeling she gives her) in Musashi's Trial Quest, which is kind of neat. It's not relevant, but I thought it was kind of funny, especially considering the, uh, "debate" that was going on earlier.

How exactly does that negate his style of combat? Even if she were to kill him, which I'm sure there's at least one fight out there where she does, he'll plan on it and... cause himself to die in a way that kills her along with him.

Her swords? Eh, I just thought it was neat.