Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[HyperZero95]

regardless of my views on this, this site uses pretty much every work for scaling, to my knowledge. don’t like it? idk complain to the staff or whatever

Then........Why are you using Nasu's WoG statements, which are not accepted on this site? Bro LOL.

I'm simply debating how things actually are, not how they should be on the site since I don't care that much.

acting like this doesn’t happen in melty blood is crazy

The parody stuff in Melty Blood is distinct from the more serious stuff with its own story. What an absurd comparison.

regardless, here’s a definition:

I don't care. Comedic works are forever irrelevant to serious works.

“future gospel is non canon because shiki has a kid” is extremely funny

Can you actually explain why it's funny? I also find everything you say funny asf and deranged, and so do a lot of people. The fact you are trying to defend MF is just a confirmation you don't know the character at all and didn't understand the story.

Ryougi has a deep-seated hatred for humanity and strong nihilistic tendencies, with Void even stating her desire to destroy all of creation. While she can resist her impulses to kill, her core nature remains destructive. Moreover, she fundamentally doesn’t care about anything except Mikiya. Mikiya, on the other hand, embodies normalcy and stability, even rejecting Void’s offer to grant his wishes because he’s content with his life. The idea of them wanting a child completely contradicts their very characters.

And btw:

this is from one of the extra materials on the shingon tachikawa sect, which is not relevant to FGO in any capacity

The same exact materials places Buddha above Amaterasu. This just shows TM doesn't follow Buddhism 1-1. We already know that since the verse using... certain Neoplatonist ideas like The One.

 

[LehenDuo]

regardless of my views on this, this site uses pretty much every work for scaling, to my knowledge. don’t like it? idk complain to the staff or whatever

I've seen people argue the events of the Fate/GO game are canon TO THE STORY, as in, actually happen in-verse, in the same verse as the normal FGO story, and not that they are as "tools" for the game to have content.
Som yeah, EVERYTHING seems to be canon...

 

[HyperZero95]

I've seen people argue the events of the Fate/GO game are canon TO THE STORY, as in, actually happen in-verse, in the same verse as the normal FGO story, and not that they are as "tools" for the game to have content.
Som yeah, EVERYTHING seems to be canon...

The point is GO itself being incompatible with the older series, not its events with GO. Regardless it doesn't matter. Even if everything is one unified canon (Nope) GO still uses Tsukihime remake and its version of Ryougi contradicts her original self.

 

[Violatas]

regardless of my views on this, this site uses pretty much every work for scaling, to my knowledge. don’t like it? idk complain to the staff or whatever

What are your views on this then?

And this was discussed elsewhere, but since the verse is going through revisions, there will definitely be a discussion down the line on what works scale to what given the Tsukihime Remake exists and obviously newer works will pull from its lore over the OG and EX verse is about to have 3 canons

 

[HyperZero95]

What are your views on this then?

And this was discussed elsewhere, but since the verse is going through revisions, there will definitely be a discussion down the line on what works scale to what given the Tsukihime Remake exists and obviously newer works will pull from its lore over the OG and EX verse is about to have 3 canons

No Violatas. See, even parodies must be canon because "it's metafiction".

 

[TheSilverKing14]

The point is GO itself being incompatible with the older series, not its events with GO. Regardless it doesn't matter. Even if everything is one unified canon (Nope) GO still uses Tsukihime remake and its version of Ryougi contradicts her original self.

honestly, one canon supporters inadvertently makes the verse look incoherent af and a mess. The opposite of what they want ironically.

 

[TheSilverKing14]

Spoiler: Tough News

All of Fate is a Walter White victim if Fate supporters insist on one Fate canon or the entire TM verse is due to the fact that Fate series like EXtra and stuff despite aligning with the og lore, being forced to be canon to sub reality fodder like FGO which shows the root as a mundane dimension one can travel to proves that it is sub reality level and therefore, Walter White aka Heisenberg solos by default

 

[Tdjwo]

Goetia and all around type moon say hello

There would be no hello once Void Shiki decides to end the entire Type-Moon like she said she could.

ORT negs that fodder void shiki

Blud stop trolling

 

[TheSilverKing14]

Goetia and all around type moon say hello

Imagine wanking diet coke Araya (goetia) who needed 3000 years to trick a bunch of bricks and fodder to enact his fodder plan that would require tapping in to something that's a small portion of that canon's fifth magic.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Then........Why are you using Nasu's WoG statements, which are not accepted on this site? Bro LOL.

I'm simply debating how things actually are, not how they should be on the site since I don't care that much.



The parody stuff in Melty Blood is distinct from the more serious stuff with its own story. What an absurd comparison.

they happen in the same universe, lmao.

I don't care. Comedic works are forever irrelevant to serious works.

melty blood is doomed

Can you actually explain why it's funny? I also find everything you say funny asf and deranged, and so do a lot of people. The fact you are trying to defend MF is just a confirmation you don't know the character at all and didn't understand the story.

a lot of people being who? i have no familiarity with any of you beyond like 4 days ago

Ryougi has a deep-seated hatred for humanity and strong nihilistic tendencies, with Void even stating her desire to destroy all of creation. While she can resist her impulses to kill, her core nature remains destructive. Moreover, she fundamentally doesn’t care about anything except Mikiya. Mikiya, on the other hand, embodies normalcy and stability, even rejecting Void’s offer to grant his wishes because he’s content with his life. The idea of them wanting a child completely contradicts their very characters.

so, you think mikiya will never want anything ever again? even food, or water? what?

And btw:



The same exact materials places Buddha above Amaterasu. This just shows TM doesn't follow Buddhism 1-1. We already know that since the verse using... certain Neoplatonist ideas like The One.

i would think making the SUPREME BUDDHA,which all buddhas are just emanations of, inferior would be a huge deviation.

 

[Wankbreaker]

There would be no hello once Void Shiki decides to end the entire Type-Moon like she said she could.

Blud stop trolling

yet gets evaporated by Goetia

 

[TheSilverKing14]

yet gets evaporated by Goetia

a waifu imposter with the same name but a completely generic personality did not the real pesudo omnipotent void who's Elaine from vertigo without omni backing.

 

[HyperZero95]

so, you think mikiya will never want anything ever again? even food, or water? what?

This is such a desperate strawman, I'm actually chuckling. You probably thought you found the ultimate checkmate with this. All I said is that Mikiya learns towards stability and tranquility, and so will avoid significant changes to his life, such as making a kid. Void asked him if he wanted a better future and he outright refused, because his life the way it is already is fine to him. Him having a child contradicts that completely and even destroys the peace that he and Shiki sought the whole series, and by extension the point of KnK. You also ignored Shiki herself being completely incapable of desiring one due to her established character.

Though you think Asagami and Kirie have the same Nothigness as Shiki and yet Araya never used them for his plan. All KnK characters are brain-dead under your interpretation, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised.

The rest of what you said is either irrelevant or arguments by repetitions, not going to bother with that shit again.

 

[TheSilverKing14]

What are your views on this then?

And this was discussed elsewhere, but since the verse is going through revisions, there will definitely be a discussion down the line on what works scale to what given the Tsukihime Remake exists and obviously newer works will pull from its lore over the OG and EX verse is about to have 3 canons

Honestly, Me personally I would seperate the verse in to two blocks and not three as per my real views for simplcity sake
one: The doujinverse aka Tsukihime (2000), Angel Notes, KNK, Mahoyo, DDD, Melty Blood, Tsuki No Sango Fate Extra and CCC, strange fake, etc
two: all modern canon series like MF, FGO, Extella, Samurari Remeant, Prisma etc and stuff like FSN and Zero can fit in both canons

 

[Wankbreaker]

Honestly, Me personally I would seperate the verse in to two blocks and not three as per my real views for simplcity sake
one: The doujinverse aka Tsukihime (2000), Angel Notes, KNK, Mahoyo, DDD, Melty Blood, Tsuki No Sango Fate Extra and CCC, strange fake, etc
two: all modern canon series like MF, FGO, Extella, Samurari Remeant, Prisma etc and stuff like FSN and Zero can fit in both canons

you know strange fake explicitly uses concepts from FGO, like the Alter Ego class,right

 

[Wankbreaker]

(not to be confused with Altered Servants, they are two different things)

 

[TheSilverKing14]

you know strange fake explicitly uses concepts from FGO, like the Alter Ego class,right

It does not to my knowledge esphically since it follows the older lore on how the second magic works and also how Ea works etc and also the author saying it doesn't follow FSN or FGO.

 

[Wankbreaker]

It does not to my knowledge esphically since it follows the older lore on how the second magic works and also how Ea works etc and also the author saying it doesn't follow FSN or FGO.

the second magic and EA have been consistently the same

Alter Ego was a class introduced in FGO.
before that, the only extra classes were ruler, avenger, and the BB created mooncancer.
gil became an alterego class servant in SF

 

[Wankbreaker]

(actually, I don’t think mooncancwr was an actual class before FGO either,just a title for BB)

What are your views on this then?

And this was discussed elsewhere, but since the verse is going through revisions, there will definitely be a discussion down the line on what works scale to what given the Tsukihime Remake exists and obviously newer works will pull from its lore over the OG and EX verse is about to have 3 canons

add me on discord, f.a.t.e_ too much stuff going on here already

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I've seen people argue the events of the Fate/GO game are canon TO THE STORY, as in, actually happen in-verse, in the same verse as the normal FGO story, and not that they are as "tools" for the game to have content.
Som yeah, EVERYTHING seems to be canon...

That's because they are. A bunch of events are referenced throughout Fate/Grand Order's main story.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

It does not to my knowledge esphically since it follows the older lore on how the second magic works and also how Ea works etc and also the author saying it doesn't follow FSN or FGO.

It does actually incorporate stuff from Fate/Grand Order. The entire reason Gugalanna is in Fate/strange Fake is because Fate/strange Fake's Ishtar stole him from the Babylonia Singularity in Fate/Grand Order, and Gilgamesh actually comes back to life as an Alter Ego in the most recent volume. Hell, the entire reason Ishtar even stuck around after volume 3 (or something like that) is because Narita liked her so much in Fate/Grand Order. Narita Ryogo loves to draw in aspects from across the entire franchise (he even referenced Room of the April Witch with Francesca Prelati's backstory, so taking stuff from the single biggest and most popular entry in the entire Nasuverse is a no-brainer).

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Honestly, Me personally I would seperate the verse in to two blocks and not three as per my real views for simplcity sake
one: The doujinverse aka Tsukihime (2000), Angel Notes, KNK, Mahoyo, DDD, Melty Blood, Tsuki No Sango Fate Extra and CCC, strange fake, etc

I don't think Witch on the Holy Night fits in with og Tsukihime.

Out of curiosity, what would your "three Type-Moon canons" look like?

two: all modern canon series like MF, FGO, Extella, Samurari Remeant, Prisma etc and stuff like FSN and Zero can fit in both canons

You do realize that Prisma Illya is older than Witch on the Holy Night, Fate/Extra, Fate/Extra CCC, every Melty Blood game from Melty Blood Actress Again onwards, Tsuki no Sango, Fate/strange Fake, and a ton of other stuff, right?

What's MF stand for?

 

[Wankbreaker]

I don't think Witch on the Holy Night fits in with og Tsukihime.

it doesn’t. shit like the ages and even the school Aoko goes to was changed from the character material version.

Out of curiosity, what would your "three Type-Moon canons" look like?

You do realize that Prisma Illya is older than Witch on the Holy Night, Fate/Extra, Fate/Extra CCC, every Melty Blood game from Melty Blood Actress Again onwards, Tsuki no Sango, Fate/strange Fake, and a ton of other stuff, right?

What's MF stand for?

Mirai Fukuin

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

What are your views on this then?

And this was discussed elsewhere, but since the verse is going through revisions, there will definitely be a discussion down the line on what works scale to what given the Tsukihime Remake exists and obviously newer works will pull from its lore over the OG and EX verse is about to have 3 canons

Eh, Tsukihime Remake stuff will probably scale to older stuff thanks to Fate/strange Fake, and Melty Blood: Type-Lumina has the remake cast scale to Servants who scale to the old stuff (and Neco-Arc is og Neco-Arc, which is neat, I guess).

The Extra-verse already has five different timelines already (Fate/Extra, Fate/Extra CCC, Fate/Extra CCC Foxtail, Fate/Extella: The Umbral Star, and Fate/Extella Link are all in their own timelines), so it's not that big of deal, especially since characters from all of them crossover in stuff like Fate/Grand Order.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

it doesn’t. shit like the ages and even the school Aoko goes to was changed from the character material version.

I think the biggest thing is that the Kuonji manor sits exactly where the Tohno estate sits in the og Tsukihime. That makes it physically impossible for it to exist in the same timeline.

(I think Nasu also said that it was made to fit more with the Tsukihime Remake world, but don't quote me on that).

Mirai Fukuin

... Wait, seriously? Ok, but how and why?

 

[HyperZero95]

I don't think Witch on the Holy Night fits in with og Tsukihime.

It's literally an adaptation of a 1996 novel. I have no idea why people suddenly believe now that it's for the Remake canon. The Second Magic's descriptions there even contradicts the Tsukihime Remake's version. On top of the Fifth dismantling the laws of the cosmos, while in GO it's just time travel it seems.

 

[HyperZero95]

I think the biggest thing is that the Kuonji manor sits exactly where the Tohno estate sits in the og Tsukihime. That makes it physically impossible for it to exist in the same timeline.

That's a Nasu statement, who already said incorrect things on KnK, like Aoko being still an apprentice in KnK, even though the novel has her as the Fifth Magician.

... Wait, seriously? Ok, but how and why?

Why are you acting so surprised?

Ryougi has a deep-seated hatred for humanity and strong nihilistic tendencies, with Void even stating her desire to destroy all of creation. While she can resist her impulses to kill, her core nature remains destructive. Moreover, she fundamentally doesn’t care about anything except Mikiya. Mikiya, on the other hand, embodies normalcy and stability, even rejecting Void’s offer to grant his wishes because he’s content with his life. The idea of them wanting a child completely contradicts their very characters.

She also suddenly goes back to her family to take over, even though she literally doesn't care about them, as made clear in the novel.

 

[Wankbreaker]

It's literally an adaptation of a 1996 novel. I have no idea why people suddenly believe now that it's for the Remake canon. The Second Magic's descriptions there even contradicts the Tsukihime Remake's version. On top of the Fifth dismantling the laws of the cosmos, while in GO it's just time travel it seems.

Aokos age is 16 in character material, and she goes to a boarding school instead, Touko is 18.
even the description of the plot is slightly different

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

There would be no hello once Void Shiki decides to end the entire Type-Moon like she said she could.

You say that, but she just didn't do it in Fate/Grand Order. Granted, I don't think she cared enough to actually try.

Blud stop trolling

I mean, it does canonically eat all of our Servants at the time, including Void Shiki. Granted, I don't think she used her powers there either.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

That's a Nasu statement, who already said incorrect things on KnK, like Aoko being still an apprentice in KnK, even though the novel has her as the Fifth Magician.

How is it a Nasu statement when the location of the Kuonji estate is stated in the game itself?

Why are you acting so surprised?

Ryougi has a deep-seated hatred for humanity and strong nihilistic tendencies, with Void even stating her desire to destroy all of creation. While she can resist her impulses to kill, her core nature remains destructive. Moreover, she fundamentally doesn’t care about anything except Mikiya. Mikiya, on the other hand, embodies normalcy and stability, even rejecting Void’s offer to grant his wishes because he’s content with his life. The idea of them wanting a child completely contradicts their very characters.

She also suddenly goes back to her family to take over, even though she literally doesn't care about them, as made clear in the novel.

Character development is a thing.

 

[Wankbreaker]

That's a Nasu statement, who already said incorrect things on KnK, like Aoko being still an apprentice in KnK, even though the novel has her as the Fifth Magician.

already addressed before, but touko even says it took her 10 years to master the fifth magic, and that she “expected more of Alice”

 

[Wankbreaker]

Also, due to the aforementioned age changes, KnK Touko is:

directly stated in the novel to not be much older than Shiki

stated to be in her early 20s by alba.

Touko is already in her 20s by the time of VN mahoyo.

 

[Wankbreaker]

You say that, but she just didn't do it in Fate/Grand Order. Granted, I don't think she cared enough to actually try.

I mean, it does canonically eat all of our Servants at the time, including Void Shiki. Granted, I don't think she used her powers there either.

i personally think she’s just not able, compared to not wanting to. but regardless, her existence should be too high for ORT to even affect in the first place if what she was saying was true

 

[HyperZero95]

Aokos age is 16 in character material, and she goes to a boarding school instead, Touko is 18.
even the description of the plot is slightly different

Where are you getting this from? The character materials of Mahoyo doesn't contradict anything in regards to KnK.

already addressed before, but touko even says it took her 10 years to master the fifth magic, and that she “expected more of Alice”

Dude what the **** you are talking about? She took her mastery of her MAGECRAFT, not her Magic.

Nasu said that KnK and Tsukihime are parallel worlds because Aoko's age does not add up. Claiming that in KnK she is still a teenager and is an apprentice under Alice without having obtained the 5th Magic yet:

"Other than that... oh, right, there's Aoko's age. If Rakkyo and Tsukihime were the same world then Aoko would only be a little bit older than Tohno Shiki. The Aoko in Rakkyo has not yet gained the title of "Miss Blue", and is still training in Misaki Town."-December of 2001

This is directly contradicted by the very novel saying that Aoko went to high school 8 years prior the events of KnK:

"I guess it's a few years back now. Around the time when my little sister was entering high school, roughly eight years ago now". - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

And it referencing the Fifth Magician twice:

"Currently there's only one magician in this country, so basically that kind of ward just can't be formed." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 4

"You are right. That is why a wizard was a feared figure in the past, and why being one could even be called a job. These days, though, it's different, isn't it? Strictly speaking, they aren't needed, the things called mages. These days, magic itself is disappearing. After all, you can count on your fingers the number of things that are impossible for humanity, can't you? Whatever the case, they say that there are only about five wizards in the world today." - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

The novel also clearly references the events of Mahoyo as having happened already:

"That's not right! Was the story that you lost your familiar to your sister only a lie...?!" - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Touko's loss of her familiar, (Beowulf), to Aoko, as mentioned during her discussion with Shiki about hiring assistance for combat-related tasks, confirms that Mahoyo remains consistent. And that Aoko is a Magician indeed.

And side materials directly states that KnK intersects with Tsukihime:

Aoko’s older sister. She studied magecraft under her grandfather, but murdered him over the shock of having the Aozaki inheritance usurped by her younger sister and fled to the Association. Unlike Aoko, her abilities as a magus are top class. She has even received a sealing designation due to her status as the world’s greatest puppet master.

She does not appear in Tsukihime. However, she is a key figure in Kara no Kyoukai, which intersects with Tsukihime.

Tohno Shiki’s mystic eye sealing glasses originally belonged to her.

She is merciless, just like Aoko. Honestly, do these Aozaki folk not have a single decent person among them? -Tsukihime Data Collection: Tsukihime Dictionary

And this is made even more blatantly obvious by other things like Ryougi literally appearing in Melty Blood, with the story developing conflict between her/Void and Archetype Earth. Or Kouma mentioning that he met Araya Souren himself all the way back in Act Cadenza.

Oh and then there is this:

One of the five existing Magicians. It seems she hates the alliteration in her full name, and gets mad when people call her by it.
As for why she’s a Magician, it’s because she arrived there at the end of a long and arduous road. If that’s not a clear answer for you, please refer to Kara no Kyoukai. Well, it might still be unclear even if you do that, though…
She had such a large influence on the young Shiki that to this day she is the only person he calls “Sensei.”
The story of Tsukihime begins with Aoko and Shiki’s first meeting. At that time, she seemed to be an amiable older-sister type, but generally her stance is to avoid getting too involved with other people. - Tsukihime Dokuhon Plus Period - Aozaki Aoko [Person]

The guidebook explicitly advises consulting KnK to better understand Aoko's journey in becoming a Magician. So this is an objectively wrong statement from Nasu. What you addressed has NOTHING to do with it. All you are referring to is Aoko using the Fifth in the first place to take her adult years so she can use her future experience as a magus. Her transformation was entirely in magecraft-terms, not Magic. Nasu statement was about Mahoyo not happening AT ALL in KnK, which is simply, plainly, not true at all. This is getting so unreal. You are utterly unable to argue in good faith or grasp ANYTHING I say in any capacity.

 

[HyperZero95]

How is it a Nasu statement when the location of the Kuonji estate is stated in the game itself?

It is located on a hill. It doesn't say it's where the Tohno mansion is. That doesn't even make sense to say in the story because that's a meta statement.

To think it's replacing the Tohno mansion location is to assume there's only one hill in Misaki Town.

Character development is a thing.

There's a difference between illogical and logical character development. Shiki randomly having the desire to go in the complete opposite direction of her origin and downgrade her level of intelligence doesn't make sense. It also completely destroys the narrative of KnK.

Funniest part is, we know Future Gospel takes place in Fate Worlds due to Case Files anyways, which already separates it from KnK, ignoring how it contradicts it.

 

[Violatas]

Eh, Tsukihime Remake stuff will probably scale to older stuff thanks to Fate/strange Fake, and Melty Blood: Type-Lumina has the remake cast scale to Servants who scale to the old stuff (and Neco-Arc is og Neco-Arc, which is neat, I guess).

Neco Arc said she had a 0-10 record going into MBTL. Scaling to her wouldn't offer anything.

And half of the ladders in MBTL (aka the Neco Arc ones) are gag ladders although idk this site treats those

Can't comment on the SF stuff.

add

I'll just PM

 

[Wankbreaker]

Where are you getting this from? The CM materials of Mahoyo doesn't contradict anything in regards to KnK.

A currently living Magician.

Aloof and clumsy, yet free spirited, somehow managing to come together in this 16 year old girl.
She takes her life as a mage simply, while loving her life as a respectable, strong young woman.
By day she is a boarding schooler, a genius who doesn't seem to realise things that are perfectly natural.
She's only just begun learning sorcery, and so her abilities are way below par.
By night, she's growing up at her own pace under the guidance of her friend and accomplice, Alice Kuonji.
At 16, entrusted with the pulse of the city's spirit, she begins to confront the foreign invaders showing up every now and then.
She's busy every day, but she seems to be enjoying herself with no complaints.

Aoko is NOT 16 in mahoyo
she does NOT go to a boarding school in the VN
and the only invader she’s fought in the story is Touko, and she’s definitely not foreign

not to mention Touko looks far different, and isn’t 18. and this isn’t the consequence of different art styles either, her entire character design is changed

Dude what the **** you are talking about? She took her mastery of her MAGECRAFT, not her Magic.

Nasu said that KnK and Tsukihime are parallel worlds because Aoko's age does not add up. Claiming that in KnK she is still a teenager and is an apprentice under Alice without having obtained the 5th Magic yet:

Touko is also described as “being a little older” than ryougi, and her being in her early 20s in KnK. all of this comes from the actual novel.

also, her title of miss blue doesn’t correlate to her being a magician or not, but even if you want to say that, I already explained Aoko took a shortcut and skipped 10 years.

This is directly contradicted by the very novel saying that Aoko went to high school 8 years prior the events of KnK:



And it referencing the Fifth Magician twice:



The novel also clearly references the events of Mahoyo as having happened already:



Touko's loss of her familiar, (Beowulf), to Aoko, as mentioned during her discussion with Shiki about hiring assistance for combat-related tasks, confirms that Mahoyo remains consistent. And that Aoko is a Magician indeed.

And side materials directly states that KnK intersects with Tsukihime:

yet things are clearly different, like the fujou family for example.

And this is made even more blatantly obvious by other things like Ryougi literally appearing in Melty Blood, with the story developing conflict between her/Void and Archetype Earth. Or Kouma mentioning that he met Araya Souren himself all the way back in Act Cadenza.

ryougi is literally whisked away from another universe

Oh and then there is this:



The guidebook explicitly advises consulting KnK to better understand Aoko's journey in becoming a Magician. So this is an objectively wrong statement from Nasu. What you addressed has NOTHING to do with it. All you are referring to is Aoko using the Fifth in the first place to take her adult years so she can use her future experience as a magus. Her transformation was entirely in magecraft terms, not Magic. This is getting so unreal.

because Touko is in it. and it even says “well,it’ll be unclear even if you do that.”,so its a useless statement

 

[HyperZero95]

directly stated in the novel to not be much older than Shiki

stated to be in her early 20s by alba.

Son, STOP lying. S.T.O.P. How the HELL is Touko in her early 20s when her younger sister went to high school EIGHT years prior to the story?

A currently living Magician.

Aloof and clumsy, yet free spirited, somehow managing to come together in this 16 year old girl.
She takes her life as a mage simply, while loving her life as a respectable, strong young woman.
By day she is a boarding schooler, a genius who doesn't seem to realise things that are perfectly natural.
She's only just begun learning sorcery, and so her abilities are way below par.
By night, she's growing up at her own pace under the guidance of her friend and accomplice, Alice Kuonji.
At 16, entrusted with the pulse of the city's spirit, she begins to confront the foreign invaders showing up every now and then.
She's busy every day, but she seems to be enjoying herself with no complaints.

Aoko is NOT 16 in mahoyo
she does NOT go to a boarding school in the VN
and the only invader she’s fought in the story is Touko, and she’s definitely not foreign

There's bound to be differences in an adaption, which is still not the same as a remake.

None of this supports Nasu's statement either regarding Aoko's age, so it's pointless.

not to mention Touko looks far different, and isn’t 18. and this isn’t the consequence of different art styles either, her entire character design is changed

This means nothing. You do know Touko's appearance changed depending on the edition of the KnK novel, right?

The Touko scan is talking about Aoko taking 10 years to figure out the Fifth Magic, not 10 years to master it. Also dude, READ. Nasu said that, in KnK, Mahoyo did not happen AT ALL, that Aoko is STILL a teenager, and that Aoko does not have the Fifth AT ALL. I cited factual sources proving that neither of those 3 things are remotely true. The end. You haven't addressed ANYTHING. All you referenced was Aoko taking her ten years in the future to get stronger against Touko, but Nasu is saying that this very same fight against Touko did NOT HAPPEN AT ALL. Which is just objectively false. Can you get this through your thick skull? Or are you going to once again cite something completely unrelated just to make me lose brain cells once again?

Touko is also described as “being a little older” than ryougi,

This isn't concrete enough, as what is considered to be "a little" is subjective. We already know her younger sister is well past her twenties in KnK.

and her being in her early 20s in KnK. all of this comes from the actual novel.

...............................

Oh my god.

Are you referring to this?

"Yes. You were always like that. You always underestimated me like that. I specialized in Rune before you. I was also the one who was famed as a dollmaker, I alone. But those feeble-minded idiots were fooled by that attitude of yours. Your condescending attitude, it gave them the impression that I was inferior to you. It's obvious if you think about it! I'm the director of Suponheim, aren't I? I have spent over forty years as a mage. So why was it that I had to be below a little girl who had just entered her twenties...?!" - Kara no Kyoukai Chapter 5

Please, don't tell me you are referring to this.

Neco.....This quote is clearly talking about Touko BACK when she first met Alba and Araya, in the PAST, when she was still in her 20s. She surpassed Alba as a magus at that time. This isn't some current comparison...


Let’s recap your track record with the Kara no Kyoukai novel:

1. You claimed Asagami and Kirie share the same Origin as Ryougi, despite the narrative clearly stating otherwise. If that were the case, Araya would have used them for his plan.
2. You argued that Araya wanted the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception to complete his plan, even though he explicitly said he’d destroy them and was only after Void’s power and body.
3. You completely misunderstood the context of Touko's age in the story.
4. You defended MF, which directly contradicts the established characters of Shiki and Mikiya.
5. You made an offhand comment about Araya’s barriers being not being that great, even though I was giving a BASIC description of them.
6. You claimed the soul’s personality and the body’s personality are separate, when the Epilogue clearly states they’re the same.
7. You insisted that Asagami’s distortion is "the strongest ability," ignoring that it refers to physical/numerical terms and is powerless against abstract abilities like MEoDP, which literally negated it once Shiki could see its death.
8. And perhaps most absurdly, you once claimed that the Earth is greater than Akasha.

Your interpretations make Kara no Kyoukai lose all coherence.

And yet, you had the nerve to create a thread mocking me for “defeating the purpose of KnK”? When you can’t even grasp basic plot points and common sense? You’re a living meme. It’s obvious you’ve never read the novel and know absolutely nothing about the material you’re trying to discuss. If your next comment contains the same baseless claims or fundamental misunderstandings that make the story fall apart, I’m going to ignore you again. You’re a blatant liar who will say anything to inflate your Arcueid.

also, her title of miss blue doesn’t correlate to her being a magician or not, but even if you want to say that, I already explained Aoko took a shortcut and skipped 10 years.

Sigh

⑤ The details of the 5 magic are unknown, however we do know that bringing the dead back to life is a magic, and that Aozaki Aoko’s magic is known as “Magic - Blue.” - Tsukihime Dictionary - Magic

yet things are clearly different, like the fujou family for example.

There is literally no difference. Stop lying. I think I know why you defend Nasu so much, you are a compulsive liar much like him. Birds of a feather, flock together.

ryougi is literally whisked away from another universe

Fanfiction. She woke up when Osiris rewrote the world with her reality marble, noticing everyone in her town disappeared due to Tatari stuff. She then goes to Misaki Town under Void's urges.

because Touko is in it. and it even says “well,it’ll be unclear even if you do that.”,so its a useless statement

It's unclear because KnK does not directly address that journey, but it clearly references it through Touko, which is more than enough to disprove Nasu's dumb statement.

Neco, I'm going to be blunt. You are genuinely the most ridiculous, intellectually lazy and hilarious person I've ever had the misfortune of debating. This isn’t even meant as an insult. You seriously need help. It’s baffling that you’re going to such lengths just for a waifu. You consistently fail to grasp basic logic, make baseless claims about stories you’ve never read, and struggle to assess IRL human capabilities.

You don’t even address all of my points. Instead, you cherry-pick a few and respond with what amounts to fanfiction or blatant misunderstandings.

I’m serious, if your next comment is as off-the-rails as this one, I’m done. I’ll only respond to any sane points you might eventually bring up (Which are incredibly rare).

 

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i personally think she’s just not able, compared to not wanting to. but regardless, her existence should be too high for ORT to even affect in the first place if what she was saying was true

To be fair, she was in a Servant Container.

 

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Neco Arc said she had a 0-10 record going into MBTL. Scaling to her wouldn't offer anything.

Eh, it's still something considering she doesn't die to them.

(Also, Neco-Arc's Last Arc blows up the galaxy, but that's been pretty contentious on site, from what I know).

And half of the ladders in MBTL (aka the Neco Arc ones) are gag ladders although idk this site treats those

Eh, they're still canon.

Can't comment on the SF stuff.

I was mostly talking about the statement that places Divine Spirits on the level of the Dead Apostle Ancestors. The Remake cast already kind of do, and likely will scale to characters who scale to Divine Spirits, ergo, they scale to the original stuff too.

Then again, I just remembered that The Adventures of Lord El-Melloi II has Van-Fem (who remember is a Dead Apostle since Ancestors don't exist in Fate worlds) fight Zagreus (an actual Divine Spirit), and it likely draws more from the Remake since it this volume released last year.

... Actually, wait, I forgot Ciel and Arcueid in Fate/Grand Order are from Tsukihime Remake, so there's that. Ciel also has weapons that can blow up Planets, so uh, that's a thing.