Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

[HammerStrikes219]

Just out of curiosity aside from this debacle, Violatas, favorite work in your opinion?

 

[Synnian]

It seems you're new here but we don't take what Nasu says in interviews as WoG anymore. Bro is too contradictory in his words and statements. Shiki saying she could kill a god with her eyes doesn't seem like a mere bluff to me considering how MEoDP works.

Firstly, Nasu never said Arc was stronger. I'm guessing you're using that ambiguous ranking statement that says Arc- Void Shiki-True Daemons. Not only is it outdated asf considering the fact that true Daemons are not top 3 currently, but Nasu didn't even rank the three. He simply listed the 3 strongest. And it doesn't even matter, Nasu is not a man of his words.
Void can indeed erase Arc. Literally, bro literally, Void told Mikiya that she could end the entire Nasuverse if she wanted to. That would obviously include Arc. And I don't remember Void sending Ryougi to another dimension to kill Arc. Makes no sense to me.

Except Void really doesn't care about anything. She is...Void. Nothing interests her. She said this herself. Did you even watch KnK epilogue? And she never sent anyone to another universe.

God, it's like I'm arguing with Marshadow all over again. Ryougi's eyes are from the Root itself. She literally kills futures, things beyond what Tohno can even comprehend. Tohno being more skilled than her is irrelevant. That's not my point. Ryougi doesn't need skill. She just kills everything because her eyes is directly linked to the root on a greater level compared to anyone else.

I guess this is what happens if you are stuck on reddit and refuse to understand the context of what you read.

It seems you're new here but we don't take what Nasu says in interviews as WoG anymore. Bro is too contradictory in his words and statements. Shiki saying she could kill a god with her eyes doesn't seem like a mere bluff to me considering how MEoDP works.

Understandable, though I personally don't think (too) many of his statements are contradictory. Though if we're going by that, then wouldn't contradictory statements in MBAA manuals be rendered irrelevant due to being... contradictory?

Firstly, Nasu never said Arc was stronger. I'm guessing you're using that ambiguous ranking statement that says Arc- Void Shiki-True Daemons. Not only is it outdated asf considering the fact that true Daemons are not top 3 currently, but Nasu didn't even rank the three. He simply listed the 3 strongest. And it doesn't even matter, Nasu is not a man of his words.
Void can indeed erase Arc. Literally, bro literally, Void told Mikiya that she could end the entire Nasuverse if she wanted to. That would obviously include Arc. And I don't remember Void sending Ryougi to another dimension to kill Arc. Makes no sense to me.

I can accept the first bit, though I believe wankbreaker responded to the second bit.

Except Void really doesn't care about anything. She is...Void. Nothing interests her. She said this herself. Did you even watch KnK epilogue? And she never sent anyone to another universe.

Cool. While I get it, the entire "route" your argument is based off of is one where... she DOES something, and that "something" is sending ryougi to another universe.

God, it's like I'm arguing with Marshadow all over again. Ryougi's eyes are from the Root itself. She literally kills futures, things beyond what Tohno can even comprehend. Tohno being more skilled than her is irrelevant. That's not my point. Ryougi doesn't need skill. She just kills everything because her eyes is directly linked to the root on a greater level compared to anyone else.

I have no idea who Marshadow is. Even if you want to say "she has better eyes", both Ryougi and Tohno need to actually... hit the lines of the other person. Regardless of who has better eyes, it's a matter of "who hits first", inwhich Tohno should be far more skilled.

I guess this is what happens if you are stuck on reddit and refuse to understand the context of what you read.

????

 

[Violatas]

Just out of curiosity aside from this debacle, Violatas, favorite work in your opinion?

Kinda tough honestly. Would've said Tsukihime initially, but KNK is definitely up there. And Fate Strange Fake is rising up there too.
Would rank these 3 as highest

 

[Wankbreaker]

It seems you're new here but we don't take what Nasu says in interviews as WoG anymore. Bro is too contradictory in his words and statements. Shiki saying she could kill a god with her eyes doesn't seem like a mere bluff to me considering how MEoDP works.

Firstly, Nasu never said Arc was stronger. I'm guessing you're using that ambiguous ranking statement that says Arc- Void Shiki-True Daemons. Not only is it outdated asf considering the fact that true Daemons are not top 3 currently, but Nasu didn't even rank the three. He simply listed the 3 strongest. And it doesn't even matter, Nasu is not a man of his words.
Void can indeed erase Arc. Literally, bro literally, Void told Mikiya that she could end the entire Nasuverse if she wanted to. That would obviously include Arc. And I don't remember Void sending Ryougi to another dimension to kill Arc. Makes no sense to me.

Except Void really doesn't care about anything. She is...Void. Nothing interests her. She said this herself. Did you even watch KnK epilogue? And she never sent anyone to another universe.

God, it's like I'm arguing with Marshadow all over again. Ryougi's eyes are from the Root itself. She literally kills futures, things beyond what Tohno can even comprehend. Tohno being more skilled than her is irrelevant. That's not my point. Ryougi doesn't need skill. She just kills everything because her eyes is directly linked to the root on a greater level compared to anyone else.

I guess this is what happens if you are stuck on reddit and refuse to understand the context of what you read.

Because it goes against your void agenda? can you cite 5 good examples of this? I’m not sure why nasu is being treated differently than the status quo of keep it if it checks out, throw it out if it’s contradicted.

except he did. the translator removed the numbering.

Ｑ：奈須きのこ作品全部を通して（空の境界、月姫、Fate、DDD）最強キャラトップ3を決めるとしたら誰になりますか？（石川県／聖なるパンダ）

Ａ：マジカルアンバー（ルビーちゃん）。ネコアルク。虎。―――ではなく。
真面目な話なら1.アルクェイド、2.“両儀式”、3.原初の悪魔でしょうか。（サーヴァント除く）

This answer was (excluding servants)
also, are you 100% certain true daemons aren’t top 3? Kiara was stated to be like an ant to them.



except she’s Ryougis killing impluse incarnate, and she very clearly whisks ryougi away.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Kinda tough honestly. Would've said Tsukihime initially, but KNK is definitely up there. And Fate Strange Fake is rising up there too.
Would rank these 3 as highest

KNK is one of the first anime i watched, i love the urban mystery setting. that’s why I hate when people try to make it a powerscaling work, it is very clearly not.

regardless, I don’t think anyone asked, but my top 3 works are

Tsukihime remake
Mahoyo
KNK/hollow ataraxia (tied)

 

[Wankbreaker]

On Void Shiki, I don't think she's truly omnipotent either, but that doesn't affect the Root's tiering in case anyone is wondering so meh

im mostly indifferent to the root tiering being standalone, the problem is when characters start being scaled to it (they don’t)

 

[Synnian]

Ok let's ignore the lighting then. Dead Apostles are explicitly stated to be able to react to bullets after they've been fired. Kiri can't. Moving on


Not reading allat lmao. Not my name either


Pre Tsukihime Kouma isn't even on the level of his Melty Blood self. He explicitly didn't even know martial arts back then, while in Melty Blood he does, which just tells us he trained some time after fighting Kiri. Also, as I'm sure you know, Shiki's stats heavily fluctuate depending on his mentality, as we see in both Tsukihime and Melty Blood many times.

I mean personally I'd just recommend leaving it

Pre Tsukihime Kouma isn't even on the level of his Melty Blood self. He explicitly didn't even know martial arts back then, while in Melty Blood he does, which just tells us he trained some time after fighting Kiri. Also, as I'm sure you know, Shiki's stats heavily fluctuate depending on his mentality, as we see in both Tsukihime and Melty Blood many times.

a weakened TATARI Manifestation, a carbon-copy of the one Tohno fought, stalemated or fought a very good battle against this "stronger kouma". In KT, Tohno adapts to the fully-healed/normal guy, and is BARELY able to dodge the pre-Tsukihime one.

Post-RDG Kouma, depending on interpretation, you can infer as to being weaker than his RDG self. While it sounds contradictory, Post-Tsukihime Kouma would have "gained emotions", and therefore be given the same nerfs that Kiri had when he lost to Kouma.

Regardless, you can see how Melty Blood contradicts things?

I mean personally I'd just recommend leaving it

I'll think about it, though thanks for the warning. Appreciate it

 

[Violatas]

Because it goes against your void agenda? can you cite 5 good examples of this? I’m not sure why nasu is being treated differently than the status quo of keep it if it checks out, throw it out if it’s contradicted.

except he did. the translator removed the numbering.

Ｑ：奈須きのこ作品全部を通して（空の境界、月姫、Fate、DDD）最強キャラトップ3を決めるとしたら誰になりますか？（石川県／聖なるパンダ）

Ａ：マジカルアンバー（ルビーちゃん）。ネコアルク。虎。―――ではなく。
真面目な話なら1.アルクェイド、2.“両儀式”、3.原初の悪魔でしょうか。（サーヴァント除く）

If you guys really wanna remove Void as the strongest in the verse, then uhhh yeah I'm just gonna say that's a fruitless effort. And Void was already ranked as strongest here long before Nasu's WoG was considered invalid. If you really want to, you're free to make a CRT to argue it, but I'll just say you ain't gonna wanna test that.

also, are you 100% certain true daemons aren’t top 3? Kiara was stated to be like an ant to them.

True Daemons are definitely in the higher end of Type Moon, though going by how Type Moon is currently scaled on this site, they're not in the top 3, no. Not that I necessarily agree with some of the scaling here. Different discussion though...

a weakened TATARI Manifestation, a carbon-copy of the one Tohno fought, stalemated or fought a very good battle against this "stronger kouma". In KT, Tohno adapts to the fully-healed/normal guy, and is BARELY able to dodge the pre-Tsukihime one.

Post-RDG Kouma, depending on interpretation, you can infer as to being weaker than his RDG self. While it sounds contradictory, Post-Tsukihime Kouma would have "gained emotions", and therefore be given the same nerfs that Kiri had when he lost to Kouma.

If you're referring to Melty Blood for the first one (wording kinda confusing), the Nanaya that Kouma fought was weakened, as we see in both ladders. White Len died in both Kouma and Nanaya's ladders, and she feeds his existence. In Nanaya's own, he was also injured from other fights. In Act Cadenza, he beats the Tatari of Kouma pretty easily without these handicaps.

I mean again, I ask what evidence we have for Tohno even being at his peak during that against Kouma in the dream. Guy can go from struggling to fodder enemies (like Dead Apostle Satsuki) to outright stomping, since his stats fluctuate a lot. He can even body full power Akiha, who's stated to be equal to Red Arcueid.

Also I don't see why post RDG Kouma would be weaker than his RDG self. Mind elaborating on that? Kiri probably was since he was older and iirc was kinda out of shape, but he'd still have no real evidence for scaling to a post RDG Kouma

 

[Violatas]

Anyways I'm gonna head to bed now. Will check further replies some time later (which could mean a few days or so since I'm still revising a different verse and I only just happened to glance in here because I was notified of the ongoing argument)

 

[Synnian]

If you guys really wanna remove Void as the strongest in the verse, then uhhh yeah I'm just gonna say that's a fruitless effort. And Void was already ranked as strongest here long before Nasu's WoG was considered invalid. If you really want to, you're free to make a CRT to argue it, but I'll just say you ain't gonna wanna test that.


True Daemons are definitely in the higher end of Type Moon, though going by how Type Moon is currently scaled on this site, they're not in the top 3, no. Not that I necessarily agree with some of the scaling here. Different discussion though...


If you're referring to Melty Blood for the first one (wording kinda confusing), the Nanaya that Kouma fought was weakened, as we see in both ladders. White Len died in both Kouma and Nanaya's ladders, and she feeds his existence. In Nanaya's own, he was also injured from other fights. In Act Cadenza, he beats the Tatari of Kouma pretty easily without these handicaps.

I mean again, I ask what evidence we have for Tohno even being at his peak during that against Kouma in the dream. Guy can go from struggling to fodder enemies (like Dead Apostle Satsuki) to outright stomping, since his stats fluctuate a lot. He can even body full power Akiha, who's stated to be equal to Red Arcueid.

Also I don't see why post RDG Kouma would be weaker than his RDG self. Mind elaborating on that? Kiri probably was since he was older and iirc was kinda out of shape, but he'd still have no real evidence for scaling to a post RDG Kouma

If you're referring to Melty Blood for the first one (wording kinda confusing), the Nanaya that Kouma fought was weakened, as we see in both ladders. White Len died in both Kouma and Nanaya's ladders, and she feeds his existence. In Nanaya's own, he was also injured from other fights. In Act Cadenza, he beats the Tatari of Kouma pretty easily without these handicaps.

You said what I had said. Yeah, a HEAVILY nerfed TATARI Nanaya either stalemates or has a VERY good fight with Kouma, almost mortally wounding him.

The issue comes because that same TATARI Nanaya is outright stated to be based on/the same as the one we see in KT; Dreamscape Nanaya

Yet, again, Tohno adapted to and fought the fully-healed thing, and yet was still STRUGGLING against RDG/Younger Kouma. Hence why I say it's more than likely than "gaining emotions" heavily weakened him, just like it did for Kiri. Otherwise we get into "the Melty Blood sequels are not credible" terriitory, which ruins your side's "Ryougi > AE" scaling entirely without any argument.

Also I don't see why post RDG Kouma would be weaker than his RDG self. Mind elaborating on that? Kiri probably was since he was older and iirc was kinda out of shape, but he'd still have no real evidence for scaling to a post RDG Kouma

 

[Wankbreaker]

If you guys really wanna remove Void as the strongest in the verse, then uhhh yeah I'm just gonna say that's a fruitless effort. And Void was already ranked as strongest here long before Nasu's WoG was consideredinvalid. If you really want to, you're free to make a CRT to argue it, but I'll just say you ain't gonna wanna test that.

everyday, type moon releases more works that kinda make it clear that “we never intended for her to be that, what the hell are you talking about lmao.”
example being that paragraph I sent from adventures volume 8. this paragraph is self tled, as no fan translator has touched the series past volume 2 iirc.

however, I’ll include the raws for anyone to review if they believe my translation is wrong.

 

[Synnian]

Anyways I'm gonna head to bed now. Will check further replies some time later (which could mean a few days or so since I'm still revising a different verse and I only just happened to glance in here because I was notified of the ongoing argument)

NOOOOOOOOOO

YOU'RE SUPER COOL I LIKE YOU

: (

hope you sleep well...

 

[Wankbreaker]

also, I’ll include meodp being blocked by Avalon because I think it’s funny, I’m going to sleep now