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Shinji Matou >>>>>>>>>>>> the Root 
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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)
- Thread starter DemonGodMitchAubin
- Start date
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archetype?
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Normal Arcueid. Although Arcueid didn't have her Gaia backup. And going by the dialogue it was a close fight since WL was ran away scared and didn't check to see if Arcueid was dead
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melty blood actress again:
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Well guess I'll ask again, is there anyone else here knowledgeable enough on Tsukihime and/or Melty Blood to comment on this thread?
https://vsbattles.com/threads/arcueid-changes-and-key-revisions.158214/
Would definitely like to fix the issues here because they're pretty big misinformation that should be revised. Melty Blood! Red Arcueid being tier 1 is
The 50% rating she has is a more minor issue since she's around the percentage regardless, just no hard concrete number
https://vsbattles.com/threads/arcueid-changes-and-key-revisions.158214/
Would definitely like to fix the issues here because they're pretty big misinformation that should be revised. Melty Blood! Red Arcueid being tier 1 is
The 50% rating she has is a more minor issue since she's around the percentage regardless, just no hard concrete number
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The dialogue between them is actually very interesting
Yada yada one being the of the law of the star and one being of the law of the universe, forgot the exact words
EDIT: Found it - Arc basically saying to Ryougi "chill out, brah"
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I don't think it's necessarily wrong to put Void Shiki as the strongest, but would she even try to fight? The "girl" literally created two personalities so she wouldn't have to do things and could went back to sleep, she would probably just say "**** this" and go somewhere else before having to fight.
Why would "reality" ever fight with something?
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Wait, how is Abigail stronger than Types or Arc? Where was it stated Outer Gods are that powerful?
Tdjwo
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Yog-Sothoth is superior to every dimension in the Nasuverse and exists outside it.
Tdjwo
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It doesn't matter if she wouldn't bother fighting. They can't kill her and they can't defeat her. And we know shs can swipe them off existence at once but she chooses not to do anything. That makes her still superior to them all.
KingNanaya
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they would just cease to exist
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Something that I have stumbled upon while reading random Nasuverse things and noticing "strange things"
So, it may seem very random, but, in color theory, there are two ways to classify colors: additive way (RGB, used in screens and monitors - things that output light, for example) and subtractive way (RYB, how we classify colors of things that receive light, such as Human Vision). Also, thereis the classification of Primary or Secondary -Primary are the colors that name the systems, so Red-Green-Blue in additive and Red-Yellow-Blue in subtractive.
Nasuverse ELEMENT entry, says that Fire is Red, Earth is Yellow, Water is Silver, Wind is Blue, Void is Purple-Black and assignes no colors for either Hollow (possible, but not physically) or Nothingness (impossible, but materializes), which he calls Imaginary Elements. Now, let's apply thethe classification to these.
Earth (Yellow) is called "essence of gemstones". If the essence of Gemstones is yellow, it would mean they are "outputting" Red and Green and in RYB it would mean it is absorbing Red and Blue, therefore reflecting back Yellow. By mixing Earth with Void (the essence of Magecraft), one can obtain all the Elements. Problem is Void is Purple-Black. Purple is Red + Blue in both systems, but in RGB it wouldn't be outputting Green while in RYB it would be absorbing Yellow, Black is all colors together in RYB/subtractive, and in RGB it doesn't exist - there's no "black wavelength". So... Either we are explictly talking about RYB or it wouldn't make sense, right?
But: Gemstnoes are called "prisons that lock things", which are charged by thoughts and feelings or Man, and can easily receive Magical Energy (such is the case of Rin and Luvia). Also, there's the strange fact that Fire, Earth and Water are all elements, written with the respective kanji for them - but it's WIND, not AIR. The kanji used and the translation to Wind both coincide in the fact that it's NOT Air, but the MOVEMENT of Air. (Which by the way is E-A in Japanese engrishu, which name both Gil's Sword of Rapture and Invisible Air, Artoria's BF concealing the sword.)
If they LOCK ME, it means they ABSORB IT and do not let it leak, right? So, Magical Energy would have to be the thing entering, problem is, again, there's no black light. So, obviously there's something wrong here. To somehow make sense of this, quick information about colors used: Flat Snark, fat (yellow) from the abdomen of a nomadic God, inheritance from the very first Witch, Yumina, creates Primeval Magical Energy in its BF which is Green. Imaginary Number world is said to be a Sea of Nothingness - but, if it could be experienced, it would seem like a Rainbow, each person having a different impression. "The Epitome of Magecraft" is said to be the user, the Magus, becoming transparent, without a Self while keeping their Ego, which is reflected by Thought/Ideological Magecraft. Finally, Shirou - Shirou means White, and he has two "forms" Emiya Shirou - red hair, EMIYA/Mumei (without Name) - White Hair, user of Unlimited Blade Works, a Reality Marble which "possess all the Elements for the creation of Swords" and which it's chant is "the connection of Emiya Shirou".
I propose that the "process" of Magecraft (and therefore of Human History itself) is therefore not properly understood by Magi, and while Nasu has never actually said it co explicitly, it is hidden in the undertones of the work. The so called Time Axis, Proper Human History, is the layering of meaning, of form, in such a way that it doesn't show that the thing doing the layering and the thing being layered is the same, the WORLD, which is separated by Air, but is one being, which was separated - this separation becoming a sort of 3 thing in itself. Even the so called "Origin" of a Human is a mix of things, that is, the interplay of the World and the Form, the person. The same way Avalon, a sheathe, is what made both Shirou Attribute and Afiinity "Sword", the thing called light that enters interacts with the Form, and then, the same "light" that enters, once made to come out, interacts with the opposite side of the Form. Shirou's Body, which only is there alive because of Avalon, can only "accept" a Sword. Therefore the only thing that comes out is also a Sword.
The end of the Age of Gods, where beings which could only end as one personality, one conclusion, meant also that the next Age, the next layer, was imposed over them. "Celestial Bodies are Hollow. Hollow is Empty Space. In Empty Space there is God." The empty space is not empty - not in actuality, at least. It merely cannot normally be observed as it's real "being". Humans became a prime species as a group, the World now has Gaia and Alaya, the World now is the interaction of the Gods, that now are merely system/programs/AIs, laws that activated will have one output.
The same way, in the next "Age of Will", the "bodies of Men" will become the layer between things, the same way the bodies of the Gods became the layer in between before, and the Wills they have will rule - and I think the Imaginary Numbers also being at the same time "the Far Side of the Moon" and "the Reverse of the World", while being Tiamat's "prison" where she sleeps (the dreamer, "the World continues to exist as long as the dreamer is asleep), is a reference to this. The World keeps cyclicing, but now, the cycles themselves have cycles. Truly, a Paradoxical Spiral, because while the thing itself becomes more and more complex, having more and more layers, they are still the same old World that was "by Ea" separated. One of the limits is Heaven, the other is Earth, both of them "spinning in the same direction" while Humanity in the middle goes opposite to it. This same world "by Ea" separated was both scorching hot and had intense cold. The beginning and end are still the same, we merely made the middle/process muddled. Truly two mirrors opposing each other - any light between will bounce and bounce.
So, it may seem very random, but, in color theory, there are two ways to classify colors: additive way (RGB, used in screens and monitors - things that output light, for example) and subtractive way (RYB, how we classify colors of things that receive light, such as Human Vision). Also, thereis the classification of Primary or Secondary -Primary are the colors that name the systems, so Red-Green-Blue in additive and Red-Yellow-Blue in subtractive.
Nasuverse ELEMENT entry, says that Fire is Red, Earth is Yellow, Water is Silver, Wind is Blue, Void is Purple-Black and assignes no colors for either Hollow (possible, but not physically) or Nothingness (impossible, but materializes), which he calls Imaginary Elements. Now, let's apply thethe classification to these.
Earth (Yellow) is called "essence of gemstones". If the essence of Gemstones is yellow, it would mean they are "outputting" Red and Green and in RYB it would mean it is absorbing Red and Blue, therefore reflecting back Yellow. By mixing Earth with Void (the essence of Magecraft), one can obtain all the Elements. Problem is Void is Purple-Black. Purple is Red + Blue in both systems, but in RGB it wouldn't be outputting Green while in RYB it would be absorbing Yellow, Black is all colors together in RYB/subtractive, and in RGB it doesn't exist - there's no "black wavelength". So... Either we are explictly talking about RYB or it wouldn't make sense, right?
But: Gemstnoes are called "prisons that lock things", which are charged by thoughts and feelings or Man, and can easily receive Magical Energy (such is the case of Rin and Luvia). Also, there's the strange fact that Fire, Earth and Water are all elements, written with the respective kanji for them - but it's WIND, not AIR. The kanji used and the translation to Wind both coincide in the fact that it's NOT Air, but the MOVEMENT of Air. (Which by the way is E-A in Japanese engrishu, which name both Gil's Sword of Rapture and Invisible Air, Artoria's BF concealing the sword.)
If they LOCK ME, it means they ABSORB IT and do not let it leak, right? So, Magical Energy would have to be the thing entering, problem is, again, there's no black light. So, obviously there's something wrong here. To somehow make sense of this, quick information about colors used: Flat Snark, fat (yellow) from the abdomen of a nomadic God, inheritance from the very first Witch, Yumina, creates Primeval Magical Energy in its BF which is Green. Imaginary Number world is said to be a Sea of Nothingness - but, if it could be experienced, it would seem like a Rainbow, each person having a different impression. "The Epitome of Magecraft" is said to be the user, the Magus, becoming transparent, without a Self while keeping their Ego, which is reflected by Thought/Ideological Magecraft. Finally, Shirou - Shirou means White, and he has two "forms" Emiya Shirou - red hair, EMIYA/Mumei (without Name) - White Hair, user of Unlimited Blade Works, a Reality Marble which "possess all the Elements for the creation of Swords" and which it's chant is "the connection of Emiya Shirou".
I propose that the "process" of Magecraft (and therefore of Human History itself) is therefore not properly understood by Magi, and while Nasu has never actually said it co explicitly, it is hidden in the undertones of the work. The so called Time Axis, Proper Human History, is the layering of meaning, of form, in such a way that it doesn't show that the thing doing the layering and the thing being layered is the same, the WORLD, which is separated by Air, but is one being, which was separated - this separation becoming a sort of 3 thing in itself. Even the so called "Origin" of a Human is a mix of things, that is, the interplay of the World and the Form, the person. The same way Avalon, a sheathe, is what made both Shirou Attribute and Afiinity "Sword", the thing called light that enters interacts with the Form, and then, the same "light" that enters, once made to come out, interacts with the opposite side of the Form. Shirou's Body, which only is there alive because of Avalon, can only "accept" a Sword. Therefore the only thing that comes out is also a Sword.
The end of the Age of Gods, where beings which could only end as one personality, one conclusion, meant also that the next Age, the next layer, was imposed over them. "Celestial Bodies are Hollow. Hollow is Empty Space. In Empty Space there is God." The empty space is not empty - not in actuality, at least. It merely cannot normally be observed as it's real "being". Humans became a prime species as a group, the World now has Gaia and Alaya, the World now is the interaction of the Gods, that now are merely system/programs/AIs, laws that activated will have one output.
The same way, in the next "Age of Will", the "bodies of Men" will become the layer between things, the same way the bodies of the Gods became the layer in between before, and the Wills they have will rule - and I think the Imaginary Numbers also being at the same time "the Far Side of the Moon" and "the Reverse of the World", while being Tiamat's "prison" where she sleeps (the dreamer, "the World continues to exist as long as the dreamer is asleep), is a reference to this. The World keeps cyclicing, but now, the cycles themselves have cycles. Truly, a Paradoxical Spiral, because while the thing itself becomes more and more complex, having more and more layers, they are still the same old World that was "by Ea" separated. One of the limits is Heaven, the other is Earth, both of them "spinning in the same direction" while Humanity in the middle goes opposite to it. This same world "by Ea" separated was both scorching hot and had intense cold. The beginning and end are still the same, we merely made the middle/process muddled. Truly two mirrors opposing each other - any light between will bounce and bounce.
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Also apparently true ancestors are based on the vampire hunter D series, with the main villian, True Ancestor, being able to manipulate the akashic records
Fezzih_007
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So this ability exist right now, i think some servants should have they profiles updated. Like, mainly Archers and other servants who use guns.
vsbattles.com
New Ability: Marksmanship
We currently added the Marksmanship ability to the wiki https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Marksmanship Make sure to add it to the characters you know have the ability. We also need more examples for the page. Currently I thought of Legolas.
Tdjwo
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Bro give it up
Archetype cannot be as powerful as Void Shiki. Void Shiki never appeared in melty blood. The shiki you see is literally just normal Shiki and Shiki with "self suggestion." That is not Void Shiki. Void Shiki explicitly told Mikiya that she would never appear anymore and let Ryougi do whatever she wanted. That's why she wanted to fulfill a last wish for Mikiya before she disappears for good. If Void Shiki actually appeared in Melty blood, she wouldn't even attempt to fight Arcueid. She would either ignore er or just reality warp Arc out of existence.
Them being the "same kind" only implies that they have similar links to the root. Even Manaka is similar to Ryougi in that aspect. The difference is Shiki is basically [ ] unlike Arc and Manaka who simply have some connection to it.
Lastly, Void Shiki has already stated she could erase the entire Nasuverse if she really wanted to and verbatim stated even feat in the verse is nothing compared to what she could do. And we know Void Shiki isn't the type to bluff. Archetype isn't even Crimson Moon level so how would she compete with somebody that could wipe off the verse?
Just give it up man.
Tdjwo
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Gonna be a drag adding this ability to every Archer class servantSo this ability exist right now, i think some servants should have they profiles updated. Like, mainly Archers and other servants who use guns.
New Ability: Marksmanship
We currently added the Marksmanship ability to the wiki https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Marksmanship Make sure to add it to the characters you know have the ability. We also need more examples for the page. Currently I thought of Legolas.
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did you read the entire thing bruh?Bro give it up
Void Shiki never appeared in melty blood. The shiki you see is literally just normal Shiki and Shiki with "self suggestion." That is not Void Shiki. Void Shiki explicitly told Mikiya that she would never appear anymore and let Ryougi do whatever she wanted. That's why she wanted to fulfill a last wish for Mikiya before she disappears for good. If Void Shiki actually appeared in Melty blood, she wouldn't even attempt to fight Arcueid. She would either ignore er or just reality warp Arc out of existence.
Them being the "same kind" only implies that they have similar links to the root. Even Manaka is similar to Ryougi in that aspect. The difference is Shiki is basically [ ] unlike Arc and Manaka who simply have some connection to it.
Lastly, Void Shiki has already stated she could erase the entire Nasuverse if she really wanted to and verbatim stated even feat in the verse is nothing compared to what she could do. And we know Void Shiki isn't the type to bluff. Archetype isn't even Crimson Moon level so how would she compete with somebody that could wipe off the verse?
at least read this part.
also thats just wrong, void shiki appears in shiki's last arc, with the same outfit she wears in fgo. shiki and void shiki's nps in fgo are based on shiki's arc drive and last arc respectively.
Fezzih_007
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And some riders and Berseker who use guns too.Gonna be a drag adding this ability to every Archer class servant
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About Ryougi thing, I think it can be simplified by thinking about the very "definition" of what she does: Ryougi, as the Will of the Heavens, kills, therefore is capable of seeing and interacting, with the "concept of longevity of a X".
If Ryougi is the Will of Heavens, she is the thing that is "outputted" from it, right, at least conceptually.
Arcueid's body as a True Ancestor is the sense of Touch of the Planet, and touch is by its very definition a sense that has only an input, in the outside so to say.
The interaction of these too would basically overlap. Ryougi Shiki, the Will, "flows through" what would be the limit of the being called Arcueid, all the while Arcueid's frame, the thing that is "under the body" and acts as the base/control of it, is the World Egg that has as a somewhat of Principle-like function system the compression of things outside the very limits of the possible in the Material World.
Arcueid longevity as a concept that exists in posteriority is therefore beyond Ryougi Shiki, and her Body is controlled by a thing that leaks nothing, at least in the conceptual sense. Her limit in the future and the past are the "Ultimate One of the Moon/King of the Moon" AND "The White Princess of the TA". It's like Shiki is trying to see her own pupils, in a way?
The thing Ryougi is requesting by seeing through her Rainbow Eyes, the "end of longevity", in the case of Arcueid, is the opening itself the "Will" trying to do it is coming out of, or something like that. Maybe, if she retained her Male part, she could do it? But he choose to kill itself.
If Ryougi is the Will of Heavens, she is the thing that is "outputted" from it, right, at least conceptually.
Arcueid's body as a True Ancestor is the sense of Touch of the Planet, and touch is by its very definition a sense that has only an input, in the outside so to say.
The interaction of these too would basically overlap. Ryougi Shiki, the Will, "flows through" what would be the limit of the being called Arcueid, all the while Arcueid's frame, the thing that is "under the body" and acts as the base/control of it, is the World Egg that has as a somewhat of Principle-like function system the compression of things outside the very limits of the possible in the Material World.
Arcueid longevity as a concept that exists in posteriority is therefore beyond Ryougi Shiki, and her Body is controlled by a thing that leaks nothing, at least in the conceptual sense. Her limit in the future and the past are the "Ultimate One of the Moon/King of the Moon" AND "The White Princess of the TA". It's like Shiki is trying to see her own pupils, in a way?
The thing Ryougi is requesting by seeing through her Rainbow Eyes, the "end of longevity", in the case of Arcueid, is the opening itself the "Will" trying to do it is coming out of, or something like that. Maybe, if she retained her Male part, she could do it? But he choose to kill itself.
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Tdjwo
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My bother in christ. I read everything and I'm telling you, that is not Void Shiki. That is Shiki with self suggestion. The same Shiki that appeared in Melty blood is the same Shiki that fought Araya Souren. Look at the way they fight and move.
Void Shiki is different from them. Void Shiki never held a sword. She doesn't even need a sword. Why would she need one?
And maybe you forgot, but Shiki in FGO is literally a servant. Her having connection to the root doesn't make her Void Shiki. There's a reason she's considered just an avatar of Void Shiki so claiming she is the same as Void Shiki from KnK just because of similar outfit, falls flat.
And please, read about self-suggestion. She used it against Araya and Arc. Void Shiki appeared only once and that was the epilogue.
Tdjwo
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You also gotta realize that Shiki can't just bring out Void Shiki whenever she wants to. She has to either be in a coma, or just straight up dead. She doesn't control or command Void Shiki, And she doesn't know Void Shiki exists. No matter how much mental gymnastics anyone can play, there's absolutely no evidence that Ryougi Shiki can willingly change to Void Shiki.
The profiles on this wiki should have separated Void Shiki from Ryougi. They aren't the same people. It's basically just 2 people in one body. It's like saying Sukuna is the same as Itadori.
The profiles on this wiki should have separated Void Shiki from Ryougi. They aren't the same people. It's basically just 2 people in one body. It's like saying Sukuna is the same as Itadori.
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After the male part killed itself (cough cough "Crimson Moon" equivalent), VOID itself only really manifests to Kokutou. Given what VOID is the concept being embodied in the story of the Male part of "her" killing itself, while marrying Kokutou, probably, he's the only person that can actually talk with her, and the only one who HAS talked.
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Void shiki kinda slams ngl
Tdjwo
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I know that which is why I said Saber Shiki is merely an avatar of Void Shiki in a servant vessel. The very fact that the Shiki is in a servant vessel means it's incomprehensibly weaker than the original. So them wearing the same clothes(Kimono) or wielding a katana is practically. Shiki has always worn kimono and had Kanasada Kuji since she was young.
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thats literally contradicted by melty blood, as shiki refers to void as I in quotation marks.
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in official media after knk, void shiki wears a kimono with a flower pattern, while ryougi wears the red jacket and stuff
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Best in verse match up that doesn’t canonically happen?
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literally anything in nasuverse media is canon though
Tdjwo
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Void only appeared because Shiki herself was in coma. It had nothing to do with male SHIKI. That one was long gone and dead. If SHIKI dies along with Ryougi Shiki, what's left is the final personality which is Void Shiki. That's the reason she appeared. And that's the reason she would never appear again as long as at least 1 of the two personalities still exist. This means Void Shiki has never and would never interact with Ryougi Shiki.
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No I mean like what’s a good match up that never happens
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arcueid (30%) vs artoria
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also, why would arcueid be talking about wakin up , and all encompassing order and going back to emptiness if she ISNT talking about void?
Tdjwo
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The I is not refering to Void Shiki. That doesn't make any sense since it's literally ryougi shiki fighting despite saying "I" the one urging me on.
Ok? And what does that prove? Shiki with self suggestion also only wore Kimono. Base Shiki has one kimono several times.
Tdjwo
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Just because she knows who Void is, doesn't mean she's fighting or interacting with Void. It's obvious Arc is well versed on the Akashic records. Doesn't mean she is as powerful as it.
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she's literally talking to shiki when making those statements and addressing "her" directly.
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Yeah, she had it, but:
"That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old world with a new world."
Now, remember the bit about how Worlds, when they "end", from the inside/layer below, don't just disappear, but have a process by which they end, but from outside/new world, the old world just pops out of existence, bye bye.
The wearing a Kimono and using a Katana, the form she has a Saber, is kinda the doing of the thing in itself. It's like what Waver said about angels, that Thrones are not Wheels because they carry power, but carry power because they are Wheels.
Amalavijnnana/Kara no Kyoukai/Boundary of Emptiness is "The sword stroke of the afterlife released from nirvana bestows peace to all existences."
You could compare it to it being the passage between Large and Heavy things to a Large and Light, in a way, or something like that. But, Arcueid is the passage itself.
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