• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

On paper, equal stats, Kawaki actually hard counters Boruto’s Arsenal. The only real way for Boruto to beat Kawaki is via stalling & forcing an over-heating wincon or just dog him out with a mix of Taijutsu skill and Evasiveness.
 
Even when reddit had Yhwach Beating the numidium , Space battles was still on Large Building level Tes Verse, their special threats
 
Samlex1234 said:
Yes, I know all this but why will Jonin Minato from like 20 years ago be > Adult Raikage Ay ? Are you suggesting that AY never got stronger and faster since his first interaction with Jonin Minato?
Click to expand...
Because of the statements that are in relation to WA Ay...? The databook is saying current LCM Ay is relative to the Yellow Flash and Ay's statement is clearly implying that he's only the fastest cause Minato isn't around. Also tbh I wouldn't be surprised if Ay didn't get that much faster (strength is irrelevant to the argument) since he compared his top speed back then to his top speed now, likening Naruto's feat to Minato's in the past.
Arc7Kuroi said:
Vsbw funny enough
Click to expand...
Not so much in AP these days, but the verse's speed is still pretty lowballed for high tiers (would change if Ghost's thread goes through and they're upgraded to FTL)
Samlex1234 said:
Minato became Hokage primarily due to his performance during the war, where he earned the title “Yellow Flash.” This reputation could arguably extend to his entire tenure as Hokage with him growing even faster and stronger as time passed, up until his death. As a Jonin, Minato demonstrated speed far surpassing Ay’s when they clashed. However, after that encounter that is at least 20 years ago, Ay continued to grow in both strength and speed. Therefore, the claim that Adult Raikage’s Double Lariat is comparable ~ Jonin Minato’s speed isn’t unreasonable.
Click to expand...
The statement I sent earlier literally says The Yellow Flash is his former moniker
main-qimg-1ced30440372f0dc2dd71608ba3cd8d5

Also I'm fine with V2 Ay's Lariat being relative to Jonin Minato, but the Lariat DB statement is about the technique in general, which was used by V1 Bee/V1 Ay primarily.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Not so much in AP these days, but the verse's speed is still pretty lowballed for high tiers (would change if Ghost's thread goes through and they're upgraded to FTL)
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call lightning speed mid to high tiers downplay, I'd call that a lowball. Then the God Tiers I think are far from being lowballed or even downplayed in speed with the FTL+ ratings. But ig we both seem to agree that it isn't downplay, and that it's just a lowball.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I wouldn't call lightning speed mid to high tiers downplay, I'd call that a lowball.
Click to expand...
I mean that's what I said 😭
Arc7Kuroi said:
Then the God Tiers I think are far from being lowballed or even downplayed in speed with the FTL+ ratings. But ig we both seem to agree that it isn't downplay, and that it's just a lowball.
Click to expand...
I do think God Tiers are MFTL+ but I didn't mention that cause it's far less straightforward than FTL high tiers
 
Lots of verses here (mostly the ones where the upgrades come from light novels or books) just need a single statement of light speed or "light attacks". But with Naruto, word semantics, kanji etymology, hermeneutics and all kinds of bureaucracy are necessary. I know there are standards, but when they are exaggerated only against a part of the verses on the site (it's not just Naruto that suffers from this) and others don't have as much supervision, it becomes very unfair. An example of this is Fairy Tail, which is in MFTL via a single statement of light speed, and the funny part is that the statement in Fairy Tail) use "たとえ" (tatoe) which is the informal way of "ごとき" (gotoki, present in the Lariat statement), both mean the same thing, they are used for a comparison ("Like a lightning", for example in english), whether literal or not. If it is an informal situation, such as a character's speech (as is the case in Fairy Tail) you will see the use of "たとえ" (tatoe), but if it is a formal situation, such as books (as is the case with Databook) you will see the use of "ごとき" (gotoki). But only one of the statements (Lariat) was rejected for semantic reasons, no one looked for etymology or used hermeneutics in the case of Fairy Tail, They simply accepted the statement as it was, and it was used as the basis for a single feat that supports the verse scale. So yes, this means that some verses are simply downplayed for pure hate reasons.
 
GTsek said:
Lots of verses here (mostly the ones where the upgrades come from light novels or books) just need a single statement of light speed or "light attacks". But with Naruto, word semantics, kanji etymology, hermeneutics and all kinds of bureaucracy are necessary. I know there are standards, but when they are exaggerated only against a part of the verses on the site (it's not just Naruto that suffers from this) and others don't have as much supervision, it becomes very unfair. An example of this is Fairy Tail, which is in MFTL via a single statement of light speed, and the funny part is that the statement in Fairy Tail) use "たとえ" (tatoe) which is the informal way of "ごとき" (gotoki, present in the Lariat statement), both mean the same thing, they are used for a comparison ("Like a lightning", for example in english), whether literal or not. If it is an informal situation, such as a character's speech (as is the case in Fairy Tail) you will see the use of "たとえ" (tatoe), but if it is a formal situation, such as books (as is the case with Databook) you will see the use of "ごとき" (gotoki). But only one of the statements (Lariat) was rejected for semantic reasons, no one looked for etymology or used hermeneutics in the case of Fairy Tail, They simply accepted the statement as it was, and it was used as the basis for a single feat that supports the verse scale. So yes, this means that some verses are simply downplayed for pure hate reasons.
Click to expand...
Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
GTsek said:
Lots of verses here (mostly the ones where the upgrades come from light novels or books) just need a single statement of light speed or "light attacks". But with Naruto, word semantics, kanji etymology, hermeneutics and all kinds of bureaucracy are necessary. I know there are standards, but when they are exaggerated only against a part of the verses on the site (it's not just Naruto that suffers from this) and others don't have as much supervision, it becomes very unfair. An example of this is Fairy Tail, which is in MFTL via a single statement of light speed, and the funny part is that the statement in Fairy Tail) use "たとえ" (tatoe) which is the informal way of "ごとき" (gotoki, present in the Lariat statement), both mean the same thing, they are used for a comparison ("Like a lightning", for example in english), whether literal or not. If it is an informal situation, such as a character's speech (as is the case in Fairy Tail) you will see the use of "たとえ" (tatoe), but if it is a formal situation, such as books (as is the case with Databook) you will see the use of "ごとき" (gotoki). But only one of the statements (Lariat) was rejected for semantic reasons, no one looked for etymology or used hermeneutics in the case of Fairy Tail, They simply accepted the statement as it was, and it was used as the basis for a single feat that supports the verse scale. So yes, this means that some verses are simply downplayed for pure hate reasons.
Click to expand...
a lil off topic Fairy Tail IMO is very wanked on the wiki and gets away with alot of shenanigans but its been so long since ive read it (i also don't really care about the verse) that i dont plan on touching it any time soon
 
GTsek said:
Lots of verses here (mostly the ones where the upgrades come from light novels or books) just need a single statement of light speed or "light attacks". But with Naruto, word semantics, kanji etymology, hermeneutics and all kinds of bureaucracy are necessary. I know there are standards, but when they are exaggerated only against a part of the verses on the site (it's not just Naruto that suffers from this) and others don't have as much supervision, it becomes very unfair. An example of this is Fairy Tail, which is in MFTL via a single statement of light speed, and the funny part is that the statement in Fairy Tail) use "たとえ" (tatoe) which is the informal way of "ごとき" (gotoki, present in the Lariat statement), both mean the same thing, they are used for a comparison ("Like a lightning", for example in english), whether literal or not. If it is an informal situation, such as a character's speech (as is the case in Fairy Tail) you will see the use of "たとえ" (tatoe), but if it is a formal situation, such as books (as is the case with Databook) you will see the use of "ごとき" (gotoki). But only one of the statements (Lariat) was rejected for semantic reasons, no one looked for etymology or used hermeneutics in the case of Fairy Tail, They simply accepted the statement as it was, and it was used as the basis for a single feat that supports the verse scale. So yes, this means that some verses are simply downplayed for pure hate reasons.
Click to expand...
kishimoto could probably scream a naruto character can destroy universes and some people would still try to downplay that stuff
some people dont even have naruto at tier 5


this series gets the weirdest hate boner in powerscaling (talking about in general not the wiki)
KaydeeX said:
Fun fact is that a lot of verses would crumble if they got the Naruto treatment
Click to expand...
wym
 
So the scaling for Part 1 Sasuke (No CSM) is:
  1. LoW - > 10% Zabuza
  2. CE - > Weightless Rock Lee w/ Sharingan & Chidori
  3. SRA - > Pt. 1 Kakashi w/ 3TM (Due to Kn0 Scaling)
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Because of the statements that are in relation to WA Ay...? The databook is saying current LCM Ay is relative to the Yellow Flash and Ay's statement is clearly implying that he's only the fastest cause Minato isn't around. Also tbh I wouldn't be surprised if Ay didn't get that much faster (strength is irrelevant to the argument) since he compared his top speed back then to his top speed now, likening Naruto's feat to Minato's in the past.
Click to expand...
Yeah no, Ay never compared his Top speed back then to his top speed Now. He only said “you only the second to have ever outrun my fastest punch”. Minato dodging his top speed in their very first encounter when we know that they continue to clash with each other many times after that very incident does not mean his top speed remained constant and never changed.



Minato even said the next time we meet, we will be fighting as kages.


Raikage goes on to say they fought several times after their first encounter. Meaning they most likely fought as kages. With Kage Minato still being faster than his top speed as a kage. Hence him saying Minato was the only one faster than him when he was alive. However, that was 16 years ago.



When Ay was using V1 in the fight against Team Taka, his V1 mode was started to be on par with the Yellow Flash. However, Note the statement “there is still” because we will call back to it. Later on as the fight progressed and Sasuke used MS, then we see AY ramped up his LCM form again, this stage is called the V2, in this state his chakra is at Biju level. He never used this the first time he fought Minato. Unless you want to say Jonin A4 who fought Minato has Biju-level chakra, but I digress.


Further evidence, notice his hair is not spiking up as much in this fight. Suggesting he possibly didn't have the V2 at this age.


Those statements were for V1 Raikage

The Data book statement does not cap Raikage V2 to be only relative to the yellow flash. It says specifically,

“It could overtake even naruto in his tailed beast charkra mode and it boasts a god-like speed, not inferior even to the Yellow Flash"

Notice it says over take Naruto in KCM then it showed there earlier interactions when he was in V1, however later when he used V2 he was blitzed by Naruto Top speed.

Meaning KCM naruto top speed > Adult V2 Raikage top speed> Adult V1 Raikage top speed ~ KCM Naruto regular speed ~ Yellow Flash > Jonin Raikage top speed


MinatoSparkle said:
Also I'm fine with V2 Ay's Lariat being relative to Jonin Minato, but the Lariat DB statement is about the technique in general, which was used by V1 Bee/V1 Ay primarily.
Click to expand...

Again this is what I have a problem with, Double lariat does not have a Static Ap and Speed. That scan was making reference to the Double lariat that Adult Raikage in V1 and Samehada enhanced 8 tail cloaked Bee used against Kisame. You have to be relative in strength and speed to use double lariat, which would make Adult V1 Raikage ~ Enhanced 8-tail cloaked Bee at that moment.


Even young bee and Ay can use Double lariat. This double lariat can not be the same speed and strength as the one used against kisame, even Ay had to tone down his own strength any time they used it when much younger.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Because when calculating something’s KE you need the speed of that something. The moon’s KE is the MOON’s speed squared times half the moon’s mass.
Click to expand...
That's not what I meant, where is the speed and KE of Toneri's attack needs to slice the moon in half? The calculation just determines only the side effects of Toneri's attack not the attack itself
 
garp2 said:
That's not what I meant, where is the speed and KE of Toneri's attack needs to slice the moon in half? The calculation just determines only the side effects of Toneri's attack not the attack itself
Click to expand...

How would you find a mass for Toneri's attack?
 
garp2 said:
That's not what I meant, where is the speed and KE of Toneri's attack needs to slice the moon in half? The calculation just determines only the side effects of Toneri's attack not the attack itself
Click to expand...
As repeatedly stated in that thread, conservation of energy. We don't need the speed or anything of Toneri's sword. Since the KE of the moon splitting apart derives itself entirely from the energy of Toneri's sword swing. Aka Toneri's sword swing's energy (AP in this case) MUST be at least equal to the moon KE from the calc.
 
Damage3245 said:
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Click to expand...

This isn’t about whether Naruto characters are truly light-speed. Instead, it’s about the series being unfairly held to an impossibly high standard of evidence for power scaling, while other series are allowed to progress with much less scrutiny. This discrepancy undermines what the Vs Battle Wiki is meant to provide: a fair and balanced platform for all fandoms.
Currently, there is no equal ground because Naruto is being evaluated against a standard far stricter than other verses. This is significant because when Naruto is compared to other series with less evidence but higher ratings, it unfairly loses those battles. The inconsistency in applying these standards is detrimental to both the Naruto fans and the integrity of the scaling system.

Also, Just to let you know, you’re part of the problem. Most of the time when you propose feats and calculations for the verse, you consistently lowball them to an absurd degree. I’ve rarely seen you approve an upgrade for the verse especially for the god-tier characters. Instead, you use your position to block any progress, stifling the development of the verse’s scaling. You’re constantly lurking in this discussion group, waiting for the next upgrade proposal just so you can tear it down. Heck, we had to fight for days to keep the only lightning-speed calculation we had for the verse after you nearly downgraded it to subsonic until most of your colleagues intervened and stopped you. Honestly Damage, you’re like a thorn in the side of most Naruto fans. We’re just asking for fairness and progress, but you make that impossible. I wish you’d leave us alone for once and let the verse thrive.

Ghostimuscrime said:
kishimoto could probably scream a naruto character can destroy universes and some people would still try to downplay that stuff
some people dont even have naruto at tier 5


this series gets the weirdest hate boner in powerscaling (talking about in general not the wiki)

wym
Click to expand...
We have the most Clear statement for higher dimensional Existence Shibai, but no he only went to a Spiritual dimension. We have a clear statement for Omnipotence creating the Universe, but no it is only a planet and Shibai can't even do that.
 
Last edited:
Samlex1234 said:
Also, Just to let you know, you’re part of the problem. Most of the time when you propose feats and calculations for the verse, you consistently lowball them to an absurd degree. I’ve rarely seen you approve an upgrade for the verse especially for the god-tier characters. Instead, you use your position to block any progress, stifling the development of the verse’s scaling. You’re constantly lurking in this discussion group, waiting for the next upgrade proposal just so you can tear it down. Heck, we had to fight for days to keep the only lightning-speed calculation we had for the verse after you nearly downgraded it to subsonic until most of your colleagues intervened and stopped you. Honestly Damage, you’re like a thorn in the side of most Naruto fans. We’re just asking for fairness and progress, but you make that impossible. Honestly, I wish you’d leave us alone for once and let the verse thrive.
Click to expand...

See, as far as I can tell people wanting to "let the verse thrive" means "Let upgrades pass without opposition." If I thought an upgrade was well-substantiated and made sense, then I'd support it. If not, then I cannot.

I don't treat Naruto as a verse any differently then I'd treat any other verse. Fans of Bleach or One Piece or Dragon Ball or MHA on here can vouch for that, I assure you. I don't care enough about online powerscaling to be "constantly lurking" on general discussion threads.

Also, wow, you've got good memory on that Kakashi re-calc; that was over 5 and a half years ago and I've completely forgotten that.
 
Last edited:
Samlex1234 said:
We have the most Clear statement for higher dimensional Existence Shibai, but no he only went to a Spiritual dimension. We have a clear statement for Omnipotence creating the Universe, but no it is only a planet and Shibai can't even do that.
Click to expand...
Then prove his superiority over lower dimensions?
 
I think the only way we can have accuracy and fairness in the site across all verses is if we had a Damage overseeing all verse upgrades, not just in HST.

Unfortunately, Damage isn't omnipresent (in the site). 😔
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Xdsagecat
It's the Ōtsutsuki clan crt. Come inside, it's fun inside!
2
Replies
67
Views
4K
Xdsagecat
Xdsagecat
YungManzi
Reinhard van Astrea Vs. Sasuke Uchiha
5 6 7
Replies
248
Views
7K
SatellaTheWoE
SatellaTheWoE
Celest_Void
  • Locked
Isshiki should not be 4-B
Replies
38
Views
3K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Naruto-Boruto verse 250+ Strongest Characters within the Franchise {Including Movies, Filters, Ova’s, Games, Light Novels and Specials}
Replies
9
Views
3K
Louise1959
MochOath
Naruto Uzumaki and Sasuke Uchiha vs Ryomen Sukuna [0-7-0]
2
Replies
50
Views
6K
Totentanz2440
Totentanz2440
Back
Top