Juubito Speed Upgrade

[Ghostimuscrime]

Projectiles do not exist in a scaling vacuum

This doesn't really work for kcm1 naruto though. We learnt from hashirama statement though that the chakra he is giving out isn't just kurama chakra but his and kurama's mixed. Like he's actually giving the MKCM2 form itself in small bits and pieces

Yeah I'm okay with post ch616 mkcm1 and higher naruto having ftl attack speeds
but he throws like two rasenshuriken that no one reacts to or dodges so that line ends right there

after ch616 his projectiles are either TBB (juubito reacts) or rasenshuriken (no one reacts or dodges)
and then he gets the six paths shenanigans

Madara raises his arms before Lee can kick through him, who moves as fast as MKCM2 Naruto's Rasenshuriken

He doesnt do this btw (or at least provably)

KCM2 Naruto physically outspeeds Bijuudamas from those comparable to Bee, who's MKCM Naruto level

I don't think this is post ch616 naruto since by that time obito was unmasked

Obito phases through KCM2 Naruto's Bijuudama and MKCM2 Naruto's Rasenshuriken

Same reasoning as before, I don't think that's mKCM naruto, as for the second one, Kamui blatantly does not scale to your physicals I've written a bit about it in my last crt

Obito and Madara physically react to stakes thrown by KCM2 Naruto

Could you tell me the chapter number for this?

SM Kabuto dodges EMS Sasuke's Susanoo Arrow, which is MKCM Super Oodama Rasenshuriken level

• Bee reacts to the Juubi's Bijuudama, which intercepts KCM2 Naruto's Bijuudamas
• Kurama should be faster than MKCM Naruto as Naruto's speed comes from a portion of his split chakra, yet Hashirama can react to his Bijuudamas and match them with the Shinsuu Senju
• Bee intercepts the Juubi's Bijuudama

Projectiles do not exist in a scaling vacuum

didn't Sasuke got an emotional amp between these two events when he went to speak with the edo kage?

Bee reacts to the Juubi's Bijuudama, which intercepts KCM2 Naruto's Bijuudamas

this is prior to the mkcm amp

• Kurama should be faster than MKCM Naruto as Naruto's speed comes from a portion of his split chakra, yet Hashirama can react to his Bijuudamas and match them with the Shinsuu Senju
• Bee intercepts the Juubi's Bijuudama

Projectiles do not exist in a scaling vacuum

mkcm chakra is naruto + kurama ch644
wont make sense for kurama to be above that, although I don't mind conceding to alive madahashi avatars being on that level cuz this is accepted

Bee intercepts the Juubi's Bijuudama

I'm not sure either have that scaling here

 

[Damage3245]

didn't Sasuke got an emotional amp between these two events when he went to speak with the edo kage?

Emotional amps aren't the solution to everything. We can't just point to Sasuke experiencing feelings and use it to excuse him getting many times stronger/faster.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Emotional amps aren't the solution to everything. We can't just point to Sasuke experiencing feelings and use it to excuse him getting many times stronger/faster.

or we can, why would you see direct statements of emotions being responsible for amps and then say that doesn't happen?
especially when their biology was designed to be amped in this manner.

Yeah except Mifunes attack stopped after hitting the juubi.

...why would it stop?

Hell assuming it didn't stop the tails you could even say the juubi pushed it backwards a bit, making the distance the other attacks must travel that much shorter.

1) we dont make assumptions that dont make sense, they're meant to damage or slice the arms, if anything the arms should be evading (they're shown to be pushed back in the anime, if you can push it forward you won't get blasted away, the literal opposite happens in the clip you linked

2) we dont assume just about anything will happen, its possible the beam lost its speed midway and became mhs but it's not a logical assumption so we don't consider that

What? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

if I were to use an example, you and I start a race, I let you have a 5 minute headstart but when I start running I reach the finish line before you, the only possible conclusion you could draw is that I am simply faster

The anime shows it vastly differently from the manga tho. The only projectile we see in the anime version is what seems to be a TBB explosion that somehow eminates white vibrations after it hits the target while the manga shows an explosion surrounded by many individual blade-ish projectiles.

No?
The white stuff is Issen, the cloudy/transparent stuff is temari and hyuga attacks
it's not "vastly different" from the manga at all

But even if we were to take the anime version there's the issue of Mifunes attack being fired significantly after Bees TBB and yet reaching the tails at seemingly the same time which if anything implies Mifunes attack is much faster. All while the wind scythe and air palms are nowhere to be seen

yes david, it would in fact mean gyukis TBB is slower IF you wanna interpret chronologically, sure I said that myself
as for the wind scythe and air palms, that's where you misinterpret the clip, the TBB doesnt produce vibrations, those are the other attacks outpacing it

 

[Damage3245]

or we can, why would you see direct statements of emotions being responsible for amps and then say that doesn't happen?
especially when their biology was designed to be amped in this manner.

Usually when this happens it is emotions happening in the very moment - i.e. how a character is feeling at that time, not just that they experienced some emotions once and then that permanently boosted them from that moment onward.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Usually when this happens it is emotions happening in the very moment - i.e. how a character is feeling at that time, not just that they experienced some emotions once and then that permanently boosted them from that moment onward.

you are confusing the popular trope of being empowered via emotional amps with stuff the uchihas get
uchiha emotion amps are permanent, this is biologically engrained within them and much different from the typical rage amp

 

[DavidTPPM]

...why would it stop?

Wdym why? It hit it's target. If you throw a ball at a wall does it keeping going forward after hitting the wall?

1) we dont make assumptions that dont make sense, they're meant to damage or slice the arms, if anything the arms should be evading (they're shown to be pushed back in the anime, if you can push it forward you won't get blasted away, the literal opposite happens in the clip you linked

They only do that in combination with 3+ other attacks. Just because 4 attacks together can stop the tails doesn't mean 1/4 of them can

2) we dont assume just about anything will happen, its possible the beam lost its speed midway and became mhs but it's not a logical assumption so we don't consider that

No not really. That's a really weird non-argument ngl, I don't see the point of what you're trying to say

if I were to use an example, you and I start a race, I let you have a 5 minute headstart but when I start running I reach the finish line before you, the only possible conclusion you could draw is that I am simply faster

Sure, but how does that have any correlation here?

No?
The white stuff is Issen, the cloudy/transparent stuff is temari and hyuga attacks

There is no "cloudy/transparent stuff" visible there as far as I can tell

it's not "vastly different" from the manga at all

In the manga issen is multiple individual blades hitting the juubi tails next to the TBB. In the anime Issen appears more like vibrations coming out of the TBB after it hits the tails.

That's a more than significant enough difference.

yes david, it would in fact mean gyukis TBB is slower IF you wanna interpret chronologically, sure I said that myself

So why would we use the anime if all it does is imply Bee is slower? Or why would we use any other interpretation?

as for the wind scythe and air palms, that's where you misinterpret the clip,

?

the TBB doesnt produce vibrations, those are the other attacks outpacing it

The attack is coming out of the TBB. That's a pretty big issue if you want to scale their individual speed

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Wdym why? It hit it's target. If you throw a ball at a wall does it keeping going forward after hitting the wall?

I'm not throwing a ball at my target, I'm throwing attacks, forces, likely non physical ones, they deal damage, they are intended to fragment/slice/varpourise the opponent
false equivalence

They only do that in combination with 3+ other attacks. Just because 4 attacks together can stop the tails doesn't mean 1/4 of them can

If you accept that it did not in fact get pushed back then it's a non argument

Sure, but how does that have any correlation here?

the correlation is, the person who gets the headstart is mifune against temari & hyuga
and theirs surpassing his attacks mean they are faster

There is no "cloudy/transparent stuff" visible there as far as I can tell

Nuh uh, it's there

In the manga issen is multiple individual blades hitting the juubi tails next to the TBB. In the anime Issen appears more like vibrations coming out of the TBB after it hits the tails.

That's a more than significant enough difference.

no? they're still arc shaped slashes that appear to outpace the TBB just like the manga did,that's not "significant enough difference"
I think you are still assuming they're literal vibrations as opposed attacks close to each other that's the wrong interpretation, it doesnt contradict anything

So why would we use the anime if all it does is imply Bee is slower? Or why would we use any other interpretation?

Because it as well as the manga consistently show hyuga+temari's attacks being faster despite starting after Mifune

the anime is here to add support to the manga

?

you said it's not there, I pointed it out in the above link

The attack is coming out of the TBB. That's a pretty big issue if you want to scale their individual speed

it's not coming out of the tbb, it's coming from beside it, we know this based on context of them being shot separately initially
also the cloudy stuff you see? it's center is NOT the bijuubomb, if they were vibrations for some weird reason it would have the TBB in the center

 

[MinatoSparkle]

He doesnt do this btw (or at least provably)

Why do you think his arms are raised?

Also for the part where you quoted a bunch of messages, those don't change my point. My 3rd Raikage point isn't to say A3 is FTL but that the Rasenshuriken generally isn't that far above the user's physicals, so people who scale to MKCM Naruto physically are at least close to Light Speed.

I don't think this is post ch616 naruto since by that time obito was unmasked

I'm saying KCM2 Naruto>Edo Jinchuriki Bijuudamas~BM Bee Bijuudamas~Hypothetical MKCM Naruto Bijuudamas>LS

Same reasoning as before, I don't think that's mKCM naruto,

Pre-Mastery KCM2 Naruto is still faster than MKCM1 Naruto. He's marginally faster than Obito who's at least relative to MKCM Naruto, and there's the Bijuudama thing I mentioned just above.

as for the second one, Kamui blatantly does not scale to your physicals I've written a bit about it in my last crt

I'm aware (at least for phasing, I don't agree with the example you used), this is just an example of a scaling to light speed that you need to take into account, even if only for perception speed

Could you tell me the chapter number for this?

601

didn't Sasuke got an emotional amp between these two events when he went to speak with the edo kage?

That's not accepted afaik

this is prior to the mkcm amp

Juubidama>KCM2 Bijuudama>>KCM2 Naruto>MKCM1 Naruto projectiles

mkcm chakra is naruto + kurama ch644

This is KCM2, I'm talking about MKCM1. With KCM1 in general, Naruto shelves his own chakra.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

.

is it possible to delay the who scales to whom argument until we get the feat itself validated

if we spend hours arguing for establishment for scaling chain just for it to be refused then that would be unideal

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I think a proposal properly addressing the wider scaling implications is important but sure

 

[ZKillerz]

When he striked, fodder Hyuga's Attacks, Temari's wind, Gyuki's Bijuudama all travelled in tandem and
attacked the ten tails

Is the only evidence justifying these attacks travelling and landing at the same time the panel that shows the aftermath of the attack? I dont really see anything to imply it landed at the same time.

Gyuki's TBB traversed more distance than the beam of light.

Yes but your failing to account for the fact the gyuki clearly went first

fodder Hyugas and Temari had their attack speeds raised to ftl levels.

Can you explain why temari is ftl when the attack your scaling her to is sol?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Is the only evidence justifying these attacks travelling and landing at the same time the panel that shows the aftermath of the attack? I dont really see anything to imply it landed at the same time.

the anime and manga both shows temari/hyuga ones being faster, outpacing theirs and getting ahead of their attacks, despite launching after mifune, so even if you wanted to use that card for gyukis case, theirs didnt

Can you explain why temari is ftl when the attack your scaling her to is sol?

its faster than an 1c attack that by itself should make it ftl
as 1.000001c is still ftl

 

[ZKillerz]

the anime and manga both shows temari/hyuga ones being faster, outpacing theirs and getting ahead of their attacks, despite launching after mifune, so even if you wanted to use that card for gyukis case, theirs didnt

I dont know how the anime is treated in terms of canonicity so I wont comment on that
The problem is we dont see panels leading up to the impact where all their attacks are in frame, all we see is the aftermath, how are we determining the order of arrival based off the aftermath?

its faster than an 1c attack that by itself should make it ftl
as 1.000001c is still ftl

I see the logic

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

The problem is we dont see panels leading up to the impact where all their attacks are in frame, all we see is the aftermath, how are we determining the order of arrival based off the aftermath?

this is manga format, it's not gonna to show us every frame, that's why anime adaptations exist to give us a reference

We don't see an aftermath, we see what happens before the aftermath, before it hits them,
this page shows us those projectiles in motion, means it's still occuring from that we can see at dead last is the TBB (slowest), then mifune's light beam (second slowest, it's represented by white in the center with light blue edges) and then the other remaining attacks can be seen, since they are ahead of mifune's, what does that mean? during travelling they outpaced his Issen and his Issen wasnt able to outpace theirs, since theirs travelled further than Issen despite initiating after it we can logically conclude that temari and hyuga's attack speeds were truly ftl.

 

[ZKillerz]

this is manga format, it's not gonna to show us every frame, that's why anime adaptations exist to give us a reference

I understand that but then its a matter of interpretation
how the animators interpret it doesn't matter to me at all unless they have an official member of kishimoto's staff team/kishimoto himself overseeing the adaptation, or unless they are afforded the authority to develop their own continuity

We don't see an aftermath, we see what happens before the aftermath, before it hits them,

I agree but the scene before only informs us in the order in which they deployed their attacks, not which ones hit first or last which is the relevant question.

this page shows us those projectiles in motion,

The problem that I already highlighted is that we dont have a frame where we can clearly see all the projectiles in motion, thus we cannot evaluate which of those projectiles are faster/slower.

means it's still occuring from that we can see at dead last is the TBB (slowest)

What are you using to infer that? All we see in the panel is the aftermath (explosion/impact) of the attack, we dont know which attack landed first or last in that process

, then mifune's light beam (second slowest, it's represented by white in the center with light blue edges) and then the other remaining attacks can be seen, since they are ahead of mifune's, what does that mean?

The aren't "ahead" of mifune's, they might be overlapping each other but you would give an explanation for why that means they are faster.

during travelling they outpaced his Issen and his Issen wasnt able to outpace theirs, since theirs travelled further than Issen despite initiating after it we can logically conclude that temari and hyuga's attack speeds were truly ftl.

Dawg this is so trivial idk why your explaining this, obviously if it were as simple as x is faster than y then I would agree. I'm disagreeing with how your inferring that and you cant engage with the question for some reason.

 

[ZKillerz]

Disagree FRA, I'll reengage with the thread when op or someone else actually engages with my question

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Tbh a much simpler argument is just that Naruto should scale vastly above light speed as Mifune is boosted to that level with a small portion of his chakra. It's not like just the projectile is LS, the slash is too.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Tbh a much simpler argument is just that Naruto should scale vastly above light speed as Mifune is boosted to that level with a small portion of his chakra. It's not like just the projectile is LS, the slash is too.

Yeah but this thread is already really messy. And it would just make kcm1, raikage and co ftl

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah but this thread is already really messy.

This makes it less messy and wishy washy imo

And it would just make kcm1, raikage and co ftl

I see no issues here

 

[Testarossa002]

Ch641 tobirama tp's to juubito and sends the attack back, juubito fails to react

He didn't fail to react. He shielded himself from the resulting explosion. Tobirama himself comments on Obito's reactions and how throwing attacks will be useless. He obviously can't react to the teleportation himself because the mark is on his body. Unlike the case of Minato vs Madara/obito where the marked kunai isn't on their body

ch642 same thing happens with sage narutos rasengan

Same thing. Even worse as Tobirama noted how Obito was now guarding his back. Meaning he didn't even bother to do so before. They tried the same combo and it failed to land a hit because Obito was now making attempts to guard his rear

For Madara, we don't know how he got the better of Tobirama. It's more likely that he caught him off-guard with limbo (as he did with sasuke) than sheer speed. Especially when Tobi had evaded him with FTG onscreen
I may be misremembering though.

Anyways, this thread needs to first establish the primary method of scaling as that seems to be the biggest issue
Then who scales to what can be discussed in a different thread

 

[DavidTPPM]

I'm not throwing a ball at my target, I'm throwing attacks, forces, likely non physical ones, they deal damage, they are intended to fragment/slice/varpourise the opponent
false equivalence

A ball is just a random example of a projectile. Any projectile stays in contact with target at least for a moment, especially if that projectile was shot with a lot of force meaning there's an exchange of energy.

If you accept that it did not in fact get pushed back then it's a non argument

I'm not saying it or did not get pushed back, I'm saying it's a possibility which would affect the speed of the other targets, and one which we can't just dismiss because of the way the attacks were drawn.

the correlation is, the person who gets the headstart is mifune against temari & hyuga
and theirs surpassing his attacks mean they are faster

Except we don't see anything like that. We don't even see the later 2 attacks.
Also this throws your entire "if you're 5 pooptons and I'm 10 pooptons and we both get amp by 20 shittons the difference between us won't matter" argument because now suddenly these fodder nameless Shinobi are supposedly outperforming a Kage level fighters Mifune and Bee.

Meaning this interpretation just does not work in canon (although I'm not against Bee level WA Hinata)

Nuh uh, it's there

That only appears after the TBB explosion hits the Juubi tail. Can you prove it's not just the shockwave caused by said TBB? And how can we compare it to the other attacks speed if you

no? they're still arc shaped slashes that appear to outpace the TBB just like the manga did,that's not "significant enough difference"
I think you are still assuming they're literal vibrations as opposed attacks close to each other that's the wrong interpretation, it doesnt contradict anything

I'm not assuming they're literal vibrations I'm telling you how much different they are.
They appear to be moving through the Juubi like vibrations coming out of the TBB.
I'm sorry but the difference between them is really ******* huge and denying it is silly because if there was no such difference you wouldn't be trying to bring up the anime at all.

Many individual slashes around the TBB vs vibration-like slashes coming out of the TBB is a significant difference.

Because it as well as the manga consistently show hyuga+temari's attacks being faster despite starting after Mifune

No they don't. Neither of the 2 versions gives us any panel comparing their speeds.

it's not coming out of the tbb, it's coming from beside it, we know this based on context of them being shot separately initially
also the cloudy stuff you see? it's center is NOT the bijuubomb, if they were vibrations for some weird reason it would have the TBB in the center

But they literally are

Everything seems to be coming out of the TBB in a wave pattern which is vastly different from how the manga shows it

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I understand that but then its a matter of interpretation
how the animators interpret it doesn't matter to me at all unless they have an official member of kishimoto's staff team/kishimoto himself overseeing the adaptation, or unless they are afforded the authority to develop their own continuity

That’s okay for YOUR interpretation but how the wiki does these things is if the feats are applicable the anime becomes permissible for use as reference as the only visual adaptation of the event occurring regardless of author involvement, one piece bajrung gun calc uses it, Naruto’s moon movement also used it in the past despite not acknowledging it as official canon until a newer version of the calc was released, while you can ignore it sure it’s not relevant to my crt since I can use it for arguments here

I agree but the scene before only informs us in the order in which they deployed their attacks, not which ones hit first or last which is the relevant question.

You conceded to it being in motion, which is right before it blasted them, means they were all travelling towards the hand, the one closer to the hand traversed more distance than the light beam despite starting later, (hits first) the ones behind/slower (hit last)

There you go easily derivation for each speed

The problem that I already highlighted is that we dont have a frame where we can clearly see all the projectiles in motion, thus we cannot evaluate which of those projectiles are faster/slower.

That is the in-motion panel, heck you conceded right above that it’s prior to the aftermath, we also have a clear view of individual attacks, some further than others, that necessitates an in-motion view + We also have anime for reference

What are you using to infer that? All we see in the panel is the aftermath (explosion/impact) of the attack, we dont know which attack landed first or last in that process

It can’t be explosion if the Bijuudama is still intact and we know which landed first or last via their distances from the hand, what’s closer went first, what’s further was last, in this case it’s the TBB

The aren't "ahead" of mifune's, they might be overlapping each other but you would give an explanation for why that means they are faster.

They can’t overlap if their attacks are far away from Mifune’s, the blue whiteish slash you see at the left most side? That’s there’s, there’s one beside it and 2 perpendicular to those two, all 4 of these attacks outpace Issen which is essentially touching the Bijuudama

Overlap = together (even if you think they’re together it’d still make em faster since mifune got a headstart and yet theirs caught upto it)
Ahead = one and the other have distance between each other (which is what’s happening in that panel)

Dawg this is so trivial idk why your explaining this, obviously if it were as simple as x is faster than y then I would agree. I'm disagreeing with how your inferring that and you cant engage with the question for some reason.

Because it’s just that simple
X gets a headstart
Y reaches destination before X
Conclusion = y>x

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

.

Anyways, this thread needs to first establish the primary method of scaling as that seems to be the biggest issue
Then who scales to what can be discussed in a different thread

yes it seems that it would be the best case scenario to hold scaling chain arguments until the feat is greenlighted for combat

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

Im completely agree about this

A fatigued obito has FTL reactions, i can see Juubito's speed can be FTL

Well-done

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

A ball is just a random example of a projectile. Any projectile stays in contact with target at least for a moment, especially if that projectile was shot with a lot of force meaning there's an exchange of energy.

David this is a false equivalence, a ball which is a physical object you may reason that it stays on contact but a light beam is a massless product, it's not gonna gonna latch onto anything, it's meant to slice up/vapourise things

Either way idk why you're tryna even argue this if it doesnt defeat the point, we know there's substantial distance between the fodders attacks and the light beam with it being further away from the hands

I'm not saying it or did not get pushed back, I'm saying it's a possibility which would affect the speed of the other targets, and one which we can't just dismiss because of the way the attacks were drawn.

False Possibility

Wind Stuff gets nullified = the disintegrate into thin air as they're just waves blasts
Issen = same thing occurs (light isnt a physical ball)
Bijuudama = get pushed back = leaves the vicinity

Except we don't see anything like that. We don't even see the later 2 attacks.

nuh uh

Also this throws your entire "if you're 5 pooptons and I'm 10 pooptons and we both get amp by 20 shittons the difference between us won't matter" argument because now suddenly these fodder nameless Shinobi are supposedly outperforming a Kage level fighters Mifune and Bee.

So? so what? We have boruto era gokage scaling above hashirama and madara, this is a non argument, feats matter above all else

although I'm not against Bee level WA Hinata

we will deal with scaling chains later

That only appears after the TBB explosion hits the Juubi tail. Can you prove it's not just the shockwave caused by said TBB? And how can we compare it to the other attacks speed if you

That only appears after the TBB explosion hits the Juubi tail. Can you prove it's not just the shockwave caused by said TBB? And how can we compare it to the other attacks speed if you

I'm not assuming they're literal vibrations I'm telling you how much different they are.
They appear to be moving through the Juubi like vibrations coming out of the TBB.

vibration-like slashes coming out of the TBB is a significant difference.

Everything seems to be coming out of the TBB in a wave pattern which is vastly different from how the manga shows it

1) the tbb didnt explode yet
2) we went over this, it's not a shockwave, otherwise the wind arcs would have the TBB in the center like the issen arcs
3) basic occams razor tells you they are the arcs of individual attacks, why would the studio add vibrations for the TBB floating in mid air when they don't do it for TBB in the ground, why would the vibrations look like white and cloudy rings, I've never once in my life seen vibrations in mid air indicated by glowing rings
4) Repeating old points does not add credence to your argument
5) when there are two interpretations we go with the one that makes more sense, mine makes more sense, yours has negatives, you need to bring positives that outweigh my positives and your negatives to be the better interpretation

No they don't. Neither of the 2 versions gives us any panel comparing their speeds.

yes they do lol
guy starting later finished first
he is faster by default

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I agree with the upgrade but with the scaling chain that Sparkle said

 

[MinatoSparkle]

yes it seems that it would be the best case scenario to hold scaling chain arguments until the feat is greenlighted for combat

I was giving a primary scaling method

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I was giving a primary scaling method

if we do go with that route, then it seems everyone that was subrel would become FTL, I'm too not opposed to it, it'll just make the whole process rather long

 

[MinatoSparkle]

 

[karo_senpaii]

Just make everyone subsonic like jjk and call it a day

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Just make everyone subsonic like jjk and call it a day

nuh uh, ftl speeds are the birthright of all naruto characters

~Masashi Kishimoto 2004

 

[ZKillerz]

That’s okay for YOUR interpretation but how the wiki does these things is if the feats are applicable the anime becomes permissible for use as reference as the only visual adaptation of the event occurring regardless of author involvement, one piece bajrung gun calc uses it, Naruto’s moon movement also used it in the past despite not acknowledging it as official canon until a newer version of the calc was released, while you can ignore it sure it’s not relevant to my crt since I can use it for arguments here

Ok lets use the anime, can you show me where in the anime or manga mifune is standing in relation to bee and temari on the battlefield? For all we know their attacks arrived at the same time despite mifune being several kilometers further than the rest of them...

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Ok lets use the anime, can you show me where in the anime or manga mifune is standing in relation to bee and temari on the battlefield? For all we know their attacks arrived at the same time despite mifune being several kilometers further than the rest of them...

sure

temari and mifune (+mifunes goons) were super close
and the hyugas were much father back
Bee was behind the entire alliance

 

[ZKillerz]

sure

temari and mifune (+mifunes goons) were super clos

This wasn't during the attack on the ten tails arm

and the hyugas were much father back

They were during the attack on the ten tails arm but not during the charge these are two completely separate scenes

Bee was behind the entire alliance

How do we know this?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

This wasn't during the attack on the ten tails arm

Same chapter, same setting, they use their combo attacks and then run upto reach that scene

They were during the attack on the ten tails arm but not during the charge these are two completely separate scenes

They didn't change positions (no time or reason to do so+we see them standing still until they fly) , it's essentially the same thing

multi slash scene >obito dialogue> they stand still and random hyuga talks about neji >and then they fly up ch617

How do we know this?

Read my OP

 

[Samlex1234]

Same chapter, same setting, they use their combo attacks and then run up to reach that scene

They didn't change positions, it's essentially the same thing

multi slash scene >obito dialogue> they stand and random hyuga talks about neji >and then they fly up

Read my OP

Didn't they all attack at the same time? Kind of like a frame-by-frame description of each attack. What is this argument that each of them was waiting for the other to first attack before the other did? The attack where all supposed to land at the same time for a combined damage on the ten tails.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I'm mainly doing this so they don't get to pull the x started later card, leaving no room for nitpickery

 

[Samlex1234]

I'm mainly doing this so they don't get to pull the x started later card, leaving no room for nitpickery

The attacks happened at the same time

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Sure, I don’t think there’s any other way of visually depicting unison attacks so I don’t disagree

 

[thedaymare]

This makes it less messy and wishy washy imo

I see no issues here

I agree with the upgrade but with the scaling chain that Sparkle said

if we do go with that route, then it seems everyone that was subrel would become FTL, I'm too not opposed to it, it'll just make the whole process rather long

Agree with these, also even if the process is longer it's worth it