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Some Naruto and Boruto Stuff

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UchihaSlayer96 said:
Ah, I see. That would be a convenient solution indeed. But given Sasuke's mindset at the time, does it make sense for him to hold back, really?

Edit: nvm, I misunderstood again.
So I'm not sure whether or not they were equally weakened at the very end matters much when we saw them clash when they were more fresh.
I feel like the only solution here is to assume Sasuke wasn't necessarily going at a 100% in their initial clash, and thus downscale Naruto, but I'm not really sure how to justify that.
Click to expand...
It is stated that BSM Naruto is far above Base Naruto, and obv SPSM Naruto>BSM Naruto
知体内に封印された九喇嘛から、莫大なチャクラを借り受け、ナルトは圧倒的な力を発揮。さらに"仙人モード"を同時発動することで、感知能力や発動忍術の威力は、大幅に上昇する･･･!!!
By borrowing an immense amount of chakra from Kurama, the Nine Tails sealed within his body, Naruto displays overwhelming power. Furthermore, by simultaneously activating "Sage Mode", his sensory abilities and the potency of his ninjutsu rise significantly...!!!
Kurama_Sage_Mode_The_Last_databook-2.png
 
MinatoSparkle said:
It is stated that BSM Naruto is far above Base Naruto, and obv SPSM Naruto>BSM Naruto
知体内に封印された九喇嘛から、莫大なチャクラを借り受け、ナルトは圧倒的な力を発揮。さらに"仙人モード"を同時発動することで、感知能力や発動忍術の威力は、大幅に上昇する･･･!!!
By borrowing an immense amount of chakra from Kurama, the Nine Tails sealed within his body, Naruto displays overwhelming power. Furthermore, by simultaneously activating "Sage Mode", his sensory abilities and the potency of his ninjutsu rise significantly...!!!
Kurama_Sage_Mode_The_Last_databook-2.png
Click to expand...
I'm confused, what does this have to do with anything?
 
karo_senpaii said:
I think he is trying to say the difference in power in their base and their forms is greater than what we think.
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Sure, and regardless of whether I agree with that or not, I'm just not entirely sure how that relates to the specific issue at hand.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
It justifies Sasuke holding back against Base Naruto as he scales to SPSM Naruto who's a lot faster
Click to expand...
Hmm. I see what you mean now.

Well, I don't think the gap is actually that large, but that's irrelevant. There is one, even if I think it's marginal.
So, the way I see it, the best way forward is probably the following:
  • Sasuke scales to Low 5-B physically overall. He's very clearly not a brick wall or anything like that, as he can physically harm those who can harm him. He gets a 'higher with Chidori', and the rest of his justification largely remains the same.
  • Base Naruto downscales to 5-C+.

This way we don't have any circular scaling, but at the same time, we give Sasuke the rating he definitely deserves without making too many compromises.
Sound good, @Nierre?
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
  • Sasuke scales to Low 5-B physically overall. He's very clearly not a brick wall or anything like that, as he can physically harm those who can harm him. He gets a 'higher with Chidori', and the rest of his justification largely remains the same.
  • Base Naruto downscales to 5-C+.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree with this. This is how it should have been, honestly.

Gets rid of the circular scaling, clears up Sasuke's placement relative to Base Naruto, and doesn't portray him as a tank.
 
JohnHendrix212 said:
Yeah, I agree with this. This is how it should have been, honestly.

Gets rid of the circular scaling, clears up Sasuke's placement relative to Base Naruto, and doesn't portray him as a tank.
Click to expand...
Yeah, 6-C AP with Low 5-B durability was kinda funny, but mostly painful to look at lol.
 
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Was gonna comment how island level for 6paths sasuke is utter woke nonsense but it seems it was discussed
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Hmm. I see what you mean now.

Well, I don't think the gap is actually that large, but that's irrelevant. There is one, even if I think it's marginal.
So, the way I see it, the best way forward is probably the following:
  • Sasuke scales to Low 5-B physically overall. He's very clearly not a brick wall or anything like that, as he can physically harm those who can harm him. He gets a 'higher with Chidori', and the rest of his justification largely remains the same.
  • Base Naruto downscales to 5-C+.

This way we don't have any circular scaling, but at the same time, we give Sasuke the rating he definitely deserves without making too many compromises.
Sound good, @Nierre?
Click to expand...
yeah that's perfect, i just need a justification for Base Naruto. Well actually same with Sasuke as well.

Physically the only person he contends with is Base Naruto AFAIK.
 
Nierre said:
yeah that's perfect, i just need a justification for Base Naruto
Click to expand...
I think the best way to handle base Naruto's justification is by linking a note to the end of his justification. That way we don't further clog up an already super cloggy profile. So basically...

"Moon level+ (Clashed with Sasuke <reference> [explanation note] [value note])"

As for the contents of said note, we just need to explain that Sasuke is more consistently portrayed as a rival to people like SPSM Naruto and Jūbi Jinchūriki Madara, so he was more than likely not going at a 100% against base Naruto. Or at the very least, it is more consistent to consider him holding back in that particular instance.

If need be, I can write up a more detailed/coherent justification later, I'm on the road right now. But this is the main idea more or less.
 
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If we are talking about the final fight, Base Naruto was keeping up with Sasuke, which should be reminded that Naruto had been fighting for 3 days nonstop, tired, and not doing too bad against someone who was trying to kill him with Naruto himself doing the opposite

Everything was stacked against Naruto yet he still stayed in there

EDIT: Sasuke also had the Sharingan out
 
BlackeJan said:
If we are talking about the final fight, Base Naruto was keeping up with Sasuke, which should be reminded that Naruto had been fighting for 3 days nonstop, tired, and not doing too bad against someone who was trying to kill him with Naruto himself doing the opposite

Everything was stacked against Naruto yet he still stayed in there

EDIT: Sasuke also had the Sharingan out
Click to expand...
We are basing our decisions strictly from the manga, which the initial clash only involved the arm clash.

It's also reasonable to assume that he was holding back against base Naruto based on showings and portrayals from previous fights.

Also, Sasuke had maintained chakra for the Genjutsu and Chibaku Tensei during the entire fight, had no innate knowledge about his new powers like Naruto had with his, and explicitly had a premature Rinnegan, which Kurama had pointed out, and Naruto exploited. So I'd argue he was as much, if not more restrained than Naruto.
 
I’m only now getting a chance to look at this mb Nierre,

After the adjustments I pm fully agree with the new justifications
 
JohnHendrix212 said:
We are basing our decisions strictly from the manga, which the initial clash only involved the arm clash.

It's also reasonable to assume that he was holding back against base Naruto based on showings and portrayals from previous fights.

Also, Sasuke had maintained chakra for the Genjutsu and Chibaku Tensei during the entire fight, had no innate knowledge about his new powers like Naruto had with his, and explicitly had a premature Rinnegan, which Kurama had pointed out, and Naruto exploited. So I'd argue he was as much, if not more restrained than Naruto.
Click to expand...
That’s still doesn’t negate the fact that Base Naruto is heavily tired and not tryna kill Sasuke while the latter is trying to do that especially with the sharrigan out. There should be no reason why Base Naruto isn’t in the same realm with someone who still was using a powerup (sharigan) during the fight
 
BlackeJan said:
That’s still doesn’t negate the fact that Base Naruto is heavily tired and not tryna kill Sasuke while th
Click to expand...
Sasuke was expressly NOT trying to kill Naruto in the initial clash. Their attacks were meant to be openers, not kill moves.

BlackeJan said:
That’s still doesn’t negate the fact that Base Naruto is heavily tired and not tryna kill Sasuke while th
Click to expand...
Using Sharingan = Going all out and using 100% of his strength? I don't think so.

Also, giving Base Naruto low 5-B is literally circular scaling, given that the low 5-B value is originally from the SPSM cloak forms and people on this level, which Rinnegan Sasuke is consistently portrayed as being a rival, and Base Naruto isn't.
 
JohnHendrix212 said:
Sasuke was expressly NOT trying to kill Naruto in the initial clash. Their attacks were meant to be openers, not kill moves.
Click to expand...
The Sharingan gives Sasuke more of an edge so yes he’s a lot more serious then base Naruto who we know, needs transformation and power ups to take on Sasuke when he’s using them
JohnHendrix212 said:
Sasuke was expressly NOT trying to kill Naruto in the initial clash. Their attacks were meant to be openers, not kill moves.
Click to expand...
however, again, base Naruto is tired and also not tryna kill Sasuke so even with the latter not trying, Naruto can’t try himself

EDIT: I’m confused here, this is Base Sasuke and Naruto we that are suppose to be in the same realm of power yet yall r showing RinneSharingan Sasuke instead so why is Naruto downscaling when it’s clear that Base Naruto himself is fighting against a powered up Sasuke?
 
Nierre said:
At the very least, his Chidori should be Small Planet level for harming Madara, and his Chidori Spear should scale higher for bisecting him.
Click to expand...
To be honest I don't think that the Chidori Spear needs to be specifically noted as higher for bisecting Madara; unlike the Chidori stabbing into Madara, the Chidori Spear is a cutting technique (and we've seen how chakra-enhanced cutting attacks can be extremely sharp). So it's not necessarily that the technique is a whole level of power stronger, but specifically because it's a cutting technique focusing his power into a narrow slice that he could cut straight through Madara.

Personally I'd just move the "Bisected Madara" part of the justification to join the rest of his Small Planet level justification.
 
BlackeJan said:
The Sharingan gives Sasuke more of an edge so yes he’s a lot more serious then base Naruto who we know, needs transformation and power ups to take on Sasuke when he’s using them
Click to expand...

Again, Sasuke using the Sharingan doesn't mean he's going all out. It's more consistent to say he was holding back against base Naruto based solely on his feats and portrayals of him being rivals to low 5-B characters like SPSM Naruto.

BlackeJan said:
however, again, base Naruto is tired and also not tryna kill Sasuke so even with the latter not trying, Naruto can’t try himself
Click to expand...

You keep harping on about Naruto being tired (he really wasn't) during the initial parts of the fight, but fail to consider that Sasuke would be just as much, if not more tired than Naruto, considering he has much less endurance and chakra pool than Naruto by a mile.

BlackeJan said:
EDIT: I’m confused here, this is Base Sasuke and Naruto we that are suppose to be in the same realm of power yet yall r showing RinneSharingan Sasuke instead so why is Naruto downscaling when it’s clear that Base Naruto himself is fighting against a powered up Sasuke?
Click to expand...
Yes, Base Sasuke and Naruto are roughly in the same realm of power, and Sharingan gives Sasuke an edge most times, which means at best, he downscales to Rinnegan Sasuke. And we are talking about Rinnegan Sasuke since his physicals are portrayed as being on par with Base Naruto currently, which isn't true. So we've decided to scale Rinnegan Sasuke to low 5-B where he should be, as he's able to fight characters at this level, and base Naruto downscales from this for the initial clash against Sasuke, but not to the Low 5-B, because that's where SPSM Naruto (and Rinnegan Sasuke) is.
 
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Damage3245 said:
To be honest I don't think that the Chidori Spear needs to be specifically noted as higher for bisecting Madara; unlike the Chidori stabbing into Madara, the Chidori Spear is a cutting technique (and we've seen how chakra-enhanced cutting attacks can be extremely sharp). So it's not necessarily that the technique is a whole level of power stronger, but specifically because it's a cutting technique focusing his power into a narrow slice that he could cut straight through Madara.

Personally I'd just move the "Bisected Madara" part of the justification to join the rest of his Small Planet level justification.
Click to expand...
Does this mean you agree with the OP as well as Slayer's proposed changes?
 
Damage3245 said:
To be honest I don't think that the Chidori Spear needs to be specifically noted as higher for bisecting Madara; unlike the Chidori stabbing into Madara, the Chidori Spear is a cutting technique (and we've seen how chakra-enhanced cutting attacks can be extremely sharp). So it's not necessarily that the technique is a whole level of power stronger, but specifically because it's a cutting technique focusing his power into a narrow slice that he could cut straight through Madara.

Personally I'd just move the "Bisected Madara" part of the justification to join the rest of his Small Planet level justification.
Click to expand...
I get where you're coming from, but personally, I disagree with this.

The Chidori is also a cutting/piercing attack, and we've seen it do gnarly amounts of damage in the past.

So I feel like the fact that the Chidori failed to go through Madara and Naruto, but the Chidori Blade sliced right through Madara is indicative of it being stronger. At least for this version of Sasuke, because I will admit, the degree of damage that Chidori/Rasengan do to people isn't always consistent. But I feel like they are meant to be damaging moves more often than not, especially the Chidori. And maybe this is indicative of Sasuke being slightly inferior to Naruto and Madara phsyically, so his Ninjutsu just barely hurts them. It's kind of a bit open to interpretation I suppose.
Additionally, I do wanna mention that Senjutsu and chakra cloak users (which Naruto and Madara happen to be users of both) aren't necessarily as susceptible to piercing/cutting damage as your average Joe Schmoe Ninja to be fair. I think that should be taken into account.
 
BlackeJan said:
That’s still doesn’t negate the fact that Base Naruto is heavily tired and not tryna kill Sasuke while the latter is trying to do that especially with the sharrigan out. There should be no reason why Base Naruto isn’t in the same realm with someone who still was using a powerup (sharigan) during the fight
Click to expand...
"Heavily" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here
He has a lot of chakra. A lot more than Sasuke.
Has external chakra sources.
Took mini breaks from time to time
Received a whole new power up
And no, he didn't fight for 3 straight days prior to final valley
He joined the war at dawn of the second day.
3rd day was the final valley fight
 
Damage3245 said:
I get where you're coming from, and I'll agree that is a bit dependent on interpretation.

Though regarding:



I don't think either of these exactly support your point; in C Naruto breaks the chakra rod by smashing it before it can pierce him, and in E Naruto digs his fingers into the weapon before the bladed edge of it can touch him.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, I suppose that's fair. Still, I've never seen a non-Sage or non-chakra cloaked person catch a bladed weapon from a physical rival like that without getting hurt lol.

In any case, you can replace those two instances with Madara and Naruto not taking heavy damage from the Chidori, or RCM-clad A3 not suffering heavy damage from the Rasenshuriken, which is like the epitome of piercing damage in the verse. Or not, it doesn't change my point a whole lot either way.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Hmmm, I suppose that's fair. Still, I've never seen a non-Sage or non-chakra cloaked person catch a bladed weapon from a physical rival like that without getting hurt lol.
Click to expand...
I mean they're not really physical rivals in those instances, especially the Shin clone 😭
 
MinatoSparkle said:
I mean they're not really physical rivals in those instances, especially the Shin clone 😭
Click to expand...
Uh, yeah, maybe I didn't word that the best. My main point is just that Senjutsu and chakra cloak people are at least somewhat exempt from the 'Naruto characters get rekt by piercing attacks' rule lol. They, more often than not, won't be done like Kid Konohamaru did Hiruzen lol.
The examples I used aren't all people who are equal 1:1, but that doesn't matter too much because the whole point is that piercing attacks usually allow people to damage characters they have no business damaging in the first place.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Uh, yeah, maybe I didn't word that the best. My main point is just that Senjutsu and chakra cloak people are at least somewhat exempt from the 'Naruto characters get rekt by piercing attacks' rule lol. They, more often than not, won't be done like Kid Konohamaru did Hiruzen lol.
Click to expand...
When do u mean?
UchihaSlayer96 said:
The examples I used aren't all people who are equal 1:1, but that doesn't matter too much because the whole point is that piercing attacks usually allow people to damage characters they have no business damaging in the first place.
Click to expand...
Sure, though it's definitely not a free damage card necessarily
 
MinatoSparkle said:
When do u mean?
Click to expand...
I meant to say kid Mugino, but it's just a meme example. Don't worry about it.

MinatoSparkle said:
Sure, though it's definitely not a free damage card necessarily
Click to expand...
There are some sus instances 👀, but I largely agree. I think people make too big a deal out of the whole thing. 90% of the time it's just relative people hurting each other with weapons, which.... Just makes sense.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I think the best way to handle base Naruto's justification is by linking a note to the end of his justification. That way we don't further clog up an already super cloggy profile. So basically...

"Moon level+ (Clashed with Sasuke <reference> [explanation note] [value note])"

As for the contents of said note, we just need to explain that Sasuke is more consistently portrayed as a rival to people like SPSM Naruto and Jūbi Jinchūriki Madara, so he was more than likely not going at a 100% against base Naruto. Or at the very least, it is more consistent to consider him holding back in that particular instance.

If need be, I can write up a more detailed/coherent justification later, I'm on the road right now. But this is the main idea more or less.
Click to expand...
bump
 
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