Naruto Shippuden: The Redemption Arc[7Kuroi]

[PrinceofPein]

I will reply to this tomorrow if you will pardon me

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Having the GBE assigned to the core mathematically makes no sense. This would mean that the black little ball Nagato throws would have astronomically high mass and gravity precisely because of its small size, and this is before it collects landmass. No calculation on CT has ever used the black ball itself as the feat.

GPE is the value assigned to the core, not GBE. The core is scaled to its own potential energy rather than the binding energy of the CT.

 

[Golden_Void]

GPE is the value assigned to the core, not GBE. The core is scaled to its own potential energy rather than the binding energy of the CT.

My mistake, I said GBE but meant GPE. But the GPE of a (usually) elevated object is the equivalent to the work required to elevate said object against gravity. So how can an object at two different points of observation have the same conclusion when only one conclusion has been observed is what I'm asking. This would at least assume the force of gravity is constant (which I think it has been clearly shown it is not) and the total energy output and mass is equivalent.

The value of CT largely comes from the total mass sitting in the sky. Using your example of the hand lifting the book doesn't quite equate here because then your example assumes the core amassed all the rocks at once which it didn't, it was several rocks done over time not a singular object. You said "the energy required to lift said mass of rock comes from the black core itself", which is technically true due to the gravitational attraction. However, what should be said is "the energy to sustain the CT in the sky comes from the Nagato's chakra", as that is what the feat is calculating, the final product.

Spoiler: Side notes

Quotes from the databook on the subject:

"Rocks attracted from the earth accumulate around the target, which is the gravitational core in the sky. It is compressed with powerful chakra and transformed into a sphere in a matter of seconds."

"By compiling such a large amount of chakra, it is possible to create a sealing orb the size of a Satellite."

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If we scale your hand to the change in GPE associated with raising a 1 kg rock 1 meter (using mgh = ~10 joules), and we remove the rock from your hand, does your hand all of a sudden not scale to those ~10 joules? No that’s not how this works. We scale the core to the work it is able to do, the core isn’t gonna all of a sudden have less energy if you put it in a vacuum with no rocks. I don’t how how many ways I can say it, but you’re blatantly misunderstanding how GPE works and how it is being applied in this scenario. Edit: maybe a better analogy is as follows, let’s say you measure your foot and it’s 12 inches long, your foot remains 12 inches whether or not you have the ruler that measured it. Same case here, the CT core energy doesn’t depend on the rocks, the amount of rocks grabbed up depends on the core. And the “ruler” in this instance is Pain’s CT by scaling Nagato’s to it.

I’ll ask the other staff who participated to comment again when I wake up. But I guess to tally the votes rn we got 1 on the disagree side based on Nagato’s CT = Pain’s CT to be a faulty assumption.

 

[Golden_Void]

If we scale your hand to the change in GPE associated with raising a 1 kg rock 1 meter (using mgh = ~10 joules), and we remove the rock from your hand, does your hand all of a sudden not scale to those ~10 joules? No that’s not how this works. We scale the core to the work it is able to do, the core isn’t gonna all of a sudden have less energy if you put it in a vacuum with no rocks. I don’t how how many ways I can say it, but you’re blatantly misunderstanding how GPE works and how it is being applied in this scenario.

I’ll ask the other staff who participated to comment again when I wake up. But I guess to tally the votes rn we got 1 on the disagree side based on Nagato’s CT = Pain’s CT to be a faulty assumption.

From an anime powerscaling perspective, I don't disagree. The 6PoP is Nagato/6 after all. Agree to disagree whatever else we're discussing.

 

[Damage3245]

But I guess to tally the votes rn we got 1 on the disagree side based on Nagato’s CT = Pain’s CT to be a faulty assumption.

That's not exactly how I'd word it, but yes, I am disagreeing for now.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Agree with the upgrades, I think its reasonable

 

[KingTempest]

With that statement from the databook, it appears that the size of the CT is based on the amount of chakra put in the jutsu.

With this one being a smaller one, I have yet to believe that the energy put in the CT is the same, which is what the value of the calc is based on.

So put me as disagree for now

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Kinda neutral atm tbh.
I don't really think either side can conclusively prove their claims on this one.
We know that the CT's size isn't necessarily set. It can be enlarged, as we saw with Nagato when he wanted to enlarge it to trap KN8 Naruto. We also saw it when Konan asked Nagato why he made it so large in the first place. So yes, it's pretty much an undeniable fact that the CT's size can be consciously increased by the user. Considering the fact that said increase is clearly put in place through the addition of chakra, and that maintaining the CT clearly puts a toll on the user physically, I suppose one could also argue that the technique scaling to its user isn't as far fetched as many of us think/thought. Though that's not really what this thread is about, nor is it even something I'm confident in arguing for now.

Anyway, I guess the other side could also argue that a healthy, full power Nagato, who's essentially confirmed to be more powerful than Pain (as he should logically be) due to not having his chakra divided and diluted through remote controlled corpses, would have a more powerful technique than the one used by a Nagato that was exhausted and more or less had one foot in the grave. I don't think that's an overly unreasonable assumption, but it is at the end of the day an assumption. Many people aren't fond of granting leeway to popular verses like Naruto, which is honestly understandable. Things can get out of hand, very very quickly if we let everything through without scrutiny. So I understand why the safest, lowest end assumptions would be preferable most of the time.
Still, it's definitely arguable. Kabuto is not a fool, and I'm sure he's at least partially aware that Naruto got out of this technique before. (Given that he knows of Pain's abilities in the first place, including the CT). He's also aware that he's facing two other individuals who are even more powerful/dangerous than Naruto, one of which is a full blown Bijū.
I just think that the narrative intent of Naruto's statement is that Nagato's usage of the technique is at least comparable to Pain's, if not superior. And logically, it makes absolutely no sense for Kabuto to hold back here. (Yeah, the guy who was planning to have the Raikage rip Naruto's limbs or have Nagato rip his soul out would absolutely NOT have any issues with ensuring that he gets trapped in a big rock, lol)
I also don't think that the effects being gradual is any proof that it's weaker than the one Pain used. Like, that's just how the technique works. And as far as I understand, it's not really proof that the gravitational pull of the core increases either. Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I believe that even black holes don't just attract everything at once with constant strength. It's a gradual process and very much depends on how close you are to the core/singularity. The closer you are, the stronger the pull. And once you're caught in its gravitational pull, you gradually get pulled in, atom by atom (I believe it's called spaghettification?).
Now I understand that the CT isn't really a black hole, but it is conceptually similar to an extent. At least enough for this analogy to work, I hope.

Anyway, I'm not really too interested in arguing about this. I don't have the time tbh, nor the willpower rn. I can see both sides of the fence, but I think the pro-side is making slightly more sense, at least to me personally.
So, uh, I guess you can count me as neutral, but somewhat leaning towards agreeing with this.
Sorry for the long rant, lol. Peace!

 

[Jvando]

I was planning on going on a full on explanation mode but US literally said everything that was on my mind and broke it down better than I would have if I’m being honest. With that said, I lean more towards agreeing that Naruto, Itachi, and Bee should scale to 1/3 the value based on the in depth breakdown US provided among other arguments for.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand the contention, just not enough to disagree with the OP’s proposal

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Thank you, Jvando.
Other than the people who have already commented, I believe @M3X's input would extremely helpful, both as a CGM and a knowledgeable supporter. And sorry for the ping, lol.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, M3X is on vacation, so he won't be able to participate.
Maybe DemonGodMitch, DDM, or LordGriffin would be willing to help with this. I can't think of too many other staff members who'd willingly participate in a Naruto thread.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I messaged Shadow

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I'm still in agreement with the OP.

I don't think characters requiring concentration is evidence of them outputting exponential energy, considering Jutsu that isn't tied with chakra amount but still require Physical effort or concentration to function exists. The Rinnegan already has Jutsu that seemingly puts a toll on the user Physically without a logical correlation of Chakra>passive Jutsu effect.

another issue I take is if Nagato's strain is tied directly to the amount of chakra his outputting then why is it that his symptoms get less severe as it goes on as opposed to getting worse, similar to how it would feel if you were carrying something heavy and someone continued to stack things on top of it. in the manga, Nagato's strain and effort is tied very early in the Chibaku Tensei's creation, which implies to me that the bulk of the work is done at the beginning.

Another issue I have with this is that it doesn't make sense from a logical perspective.

If Nagato's CT literally nearly killed him for maintaining and creating it, then what exactly is Nagato's plan, how does he go about extracting the nine tails, how does he literally do anything if his entire time is spent on hoping he doesn't die from maintaining the CT.

Why didn't the Moon fall apart the moment Hagoromo or Hamura died.

Why didn't the Chibaku Tensei that were holding the tailed beast break apart when Sasuke literally had no chakra, the man couldn't even move and was constantly passing out.

also, the argument that Nagato is able to change the size as evidence only works if you already agree that Nagato is adding exponential amounts of chakra, and that specific argument relies on Nagato's own statements regarding the CT size as evidence. this is circular reasoning.

nor do I think arguing that increasing your chakra to make a Jutsu bigger or more potent means inherently that this is how the CT works, considering the potency of most jutsu in regards to the amount of chakra is done at the inception of the Jutsu and very rarely while the Jutsu is still active, there are exceptions to this like the rasengan which is just pure chakra in a sphere, but it would be weird to apply this sort of chakra scaling linearly to jutsu that have often very specialized properties.

There's also the fact that if we assume you can add chakra at any point then there's nothing to suggest it cant be done after the fact, as it is possible to add or remove from a static statistic.


Konan asking Nagato about the size of the chibaku tensei, as well as Nagato's own comparison to Hagoromo and nagato's comments about increasing the size, implies to me that Nagato had already decided how large the chibaku tensei would have been from its inception

My Personal reading is that the amount of chakra that's needed for the core is decided at the beginning while Physical and mental effort is required to maintain the CT up to a certain point, so while i can understand some of the skepticism I'm not entirely convinced.

this will be my last post on the thread for a while as I'm really busy atm IRL, so pardon if I don't respond right away(if at all)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Currently at 3 staff agreements and 2 staff disagreements. I'll let this thread simmer a bit for any other staff that want to comment.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, I'll get back to this soon but this is why I'd have preferred someone like DT to comment because he can verify if my objections regarding the Chibaku Tensei's formation process is correct.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

One of the staff members present in this thread should mention DT so he gets a notification.

 

[BlackeJan]

DT is hardly ever on here. It takes a WAY long time for him to be on (wish he was though) so like I said before we could be looking at weeks or for something long term? months

 

[Golden_Void]

I'm still in agreement with the OP.

I don't think characters requiring concentration is evidence of them outputting exponential energy, considering Jutsu that isn't tied with chakra amount but still require Physical effort or concentration to function exists. The Rinnegan already has Jutsu that seemingly puts a toll on the user Physically without a logical correlation of Chakra>passive Jutsu effect.

The databook says both the creation of CT, as well as the accumulation of the rocks around the core require chakra. The context of Nagato telling Konan he needs to concentrate while he was forming the core suggests he was using or getting ready to use a large amount of energy. Similar to Nagato deactivating the other 5 paths to wipe the leaf.

another issue I take is if Nagato's strain is tied directly to the amount of chakra his outputting then why is it that his symptoms get less severe as it goes on as opposed to getting worse, similar to how it would feel if you were carrying something heavy and someone continued to stack things on top of it. in the manga, Nagato's strain and effort is tied very early in the Chibaku Tensei's creation, which implies to me that the bulk of the work is done at the beginning.

His condition did get progressively worse due to strain. He started out fine, displayed severe signs of exertion as he is sweating and bleeding just seconds after the core was already formed and thrown, he's bleeding out his nose and mouth after the CT was formed, and after Naruto comes to his senses Nagato looks like he's on his death bed.

Another issue I have with this is that it doesn't make sense from a logical perspective.

If Nagato's CT literally nearly killed him for maintaining and creating it, then what exactly is Nagato's plan, how does he go about extracting the nine tails, how does he literally do anything if his entire time is spent on hoping he doesn't die from maintaining the CT.

Not really relevant, but it takes the entire akatsuki to extract a tailed beast, and it takes them days at that. It would just take them a really long time, especially with dead members and such.

Why didn't the Moon fall apart the moment Hagoromo or Hamura died.

Why didn't the Chibaku Tensei that were holding the tailed beast break apart when Sasuke literally had no chakra, the man couldn't even move and was constantly passing out.

Probably because the moon is functionally like ours at that point, it is in space and sustains itself with its own GBE. Or because since it requires both seals to create, it possibly requires both seals to deactivate. Sasuke's CT functions most like a Six Paths CT, so he is a different case as he doesn't use the traditional core.

also, the argument that Nagato is able to change the size as evidence only works if you already agree that Nagato is adding exponential amounts of chakra, and that specific argument relies on Nagato's own statements regarding the CT size as evidence. this is circular reasoning.

Konan asking Nagato why he is making it so enormous proves that it doesn't have to be enormous, and Nagato saying he will need to make it bigger despite him just saying he can't afford to hold back in regard to his CT's size means that the size of CT is indeed variable depending on the will of the user, and the user can pour as much chakra into it as they need to, even after it has fully formed, to make it bigger. For example, Madara making a giant core that split into smaller cores which made island-sized rocks.

nor do I think arguing that increasing your chakra to make a Jutsu bigger or more potent means inherently that this is how the CT works, considering the potency of most jutsu in regards to the amount of chakra is done at the inception of the Jutsu and very rarely while the Jutsu is still active, there are exceptions to this like the rasengan which is just pure chakra in a sphere, but it would be weird to apply this sort of chakra scaling linearly to jutsu that have often very specialized properties.

There's also the fact that if we assume you can add chakra at any point then there's nothing to suggest it cant be done after the fact, as it is possible to add or remove from a static statistic.

"By compiling such a large amount of chakra, it is possible to create a sealing orb the size of a Satellite."

"Rocks attracted from the earth accumulate around the target, which is the gravitational core in the sky. It is compressed with powerful chakra and transformed into a sphere in a matter of seconds."

The first statement states that chakra can be accumulated to create a CT up to the size of the moon, which is the highest feat shown by a variant of the jutsu. Obviously, while you will need large enough chakra to come anywhere near doing that in the first place, by establishing a maximum size this statement also suggests that smaller sizes are possible and more likely, supplemented by Nagato's many statements.

Your last statement is correct, nothing suggests that it can't be done after the fact, but we also know that it can be done after the fact.

Konan asking Nagato about the size of the chibaku tensei, as well as Nagato's own comparison to Hagoromo and nagato's comments about increasing the size, implies to me that Nagato had already decided how large the chibaku tensei would have been from its inception

Indeed. Maybe not specifically how large, but a general idea of "very big".

My Personal reading is that the amount of chakra that's needed for the core is decided at the beginning while Physical and mental effort is required to maintain the CT up to a certain point, so while i can understand some of the skepticism I'm not entirely convinced.

CT being a jutsu and still being active as long as it's still floating means chakra is being used, which is the combination of physical and mental energy.

To reiterate, I agree with the feat from a powerscaling perspective, but since we are looking at the technical aspect of the feat I feel there's too many unknown variables.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don’t think anyone here is changing their opinions, so I think we should just wait for a calc member to comment, whether that be mex when he gets back from vaca or DT.

 

[BlackeJan]

M3X is the only one pretty much

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

The databook says both the creation of CT, as well as the accumulation of the rocks around the core require chakra.

No, it doesn't, the databook statements are not describing two different acts of chakra distribution, one is a descriptive text of what the jutsu is and the other is a descriptive text of what it does.

The context of Nagato telling Konan he needs to concentrate while he was forming the core suggests he was using or getting ready to use a large amount of energy. Similar to Nagato deactivating the other 5 paths to wipe the leaf.

None of this contradicts what I said, in fact, it supports it because it highlights the amount of chakra that is used is done so at the Inception of the Jutsu, not overtime.

His condition did get progressively worse due to strain.He started out fine, displayed severe signs of exertion as he is sweating and bleeding just seconds after the core was already formed and thrown, he's bleeding out his nose and mouth after the CT was formed, and after Naruto comes to his senses Nagato looks like he's on his death bed.

You're conflating two different things here, Exertion and Exhaustion are not the same thing, one is the act and the other is the effects of the act. Nobody is arguing that the CT didn't have a huge toll on him, the issue is that the panting and the nosebleeds are a consequence of Nagato exerting himself earlier not evidence of him constantly exerting himself throughout, which is what is needed to argue that Nagato is adding cumulative chakra.

All this tells us is that the Initial creation of the Jutsu takes the most toll on Nagato and we see the consequences after that, nothing more and nothing less.


Not really relevant, but it takes the entire akatsuki to extract a tailed beast, and it takes them days at that. It would just take them a really long time, especially with dead members and such.

I don't think you understand my issue, I'm not arguing that it would take too long for Nagato to extract the nine tails, mine isn't an issue of time it’s the entire logistics of the premise.

Your Interpretation of the text requires us to believe that Nagatocan increase and maintain a stronger force than the one that nearly crippled him within the first 3 pages for extended periods, extracting the tailed beast by your own admission could take potentially days, so how likely is it that Nagato can maintain this CT when a brief conversation’s time was enough to undo it in the manga.

We are Arguing two different things, you're arguing that while a continental flight might be quicker it’s still possible to travel the same distance with a car albeit slower.

I'm arguing that flying a commercial Plane from New York to Antarctica without any stops would be Impossible.

Probably because the moon is functionally like ours at that point, it is in space and sustains itself with its own GBE. Or because since it requires both seals to create, it possibly requires both seals to deactivate. Sasuke's CT functions most like a Six Paths CT, so he is a different case as he doesn't use the traditional core.

The only thing that the seals are confirmed to do is seal away the powers of the person you're intending to capture, anything else is just assumptions on our part.

And No Sasuke’s CT lacks any of the seals that the Six paths CT had nor do they orbit in space to sustain themselves. The only thing that separates them is the centres of attraction.

However, all of this isn't relevant to my Initial point because all of these CT’s still use chakra.


Konan asking Nagato why he is making it so enormous proves that it doesn't have to be enormous, and Nagato saying he will need to make it bigger despite him just saying he can't afford to hold back in regard to his CT's size means that the size of CT is indeed variable depending on the will of the user

I never argued otherwise but this point supports my argument, if the Initial CT was the ceiling for Nagato’s powers despite him later commenting that he could increase it implies that it’s an add on of a static statistic and not cumulative.

and the user can pour as much chakra into it as they need to, even after it has fully formed, to make it bigger. For example, Madara making a giant core that split into smaller cores which made island-sized rocks.

Like I said before this doesn't matter because you can add and remove from a static statistic.

"By compiling such a large amount of chakra, it is possible to create a sealing orb the size of a Satellite."

This is Describing the creation of the Jutsu.

"Rocks attracted from the earth accumulate around the target, which is the gravitational core in the sky. It is compressed with powerful chakra and transformed into a sphere in a matter of seconds."

This is describing what the Jutsu does.

They are not two separate things.

Example.

Description 1: A silver bullet blessed with holy water if used by a skilled marksman can end any werewolves life.

Description 2: The Bullet is fired from a rifle and on Impact leaves shards within the wolves body that nullifies any regeneration and lands the killing blow.

They are Describing the same thing.


The first statement states that chakra can be accumulated to create a CT up to the size of the moon, which is the highest feat shown by a variant of the jutsu. Obviously, while you will need large enough chakra to come anywhere near doing that in the first place, by establishing a maximum size this statement also suggests that smaller sizes are possible and more likely, supplemented by Nagato's many statements.

I never argued otherwise, I argued that there's no evidence that it’s done during the Jutsu as opposed to being done at the Inception or after the fact. Madara’s Gravity spheres support this as he is splitting an already larger sphere as opposed to creating dozens of smaller ones at the start, which means it’s done after the fact not during.

Your last statement is correct, nothing suggests that it can't be done after the fact, but we also know that it can be done after the fact.

Then I rest my case?


CT being a jutsu and still being active as long as it's still floating means chakra is being used, which is the combination of physical and mental energy.

No?? Many Jutsu most notably jutsu that are meant to capture or seal are self-sustaining, in fact, most are, regardless though if the bulk is done at the start then any chakra that is used afterwards is superfluous


To reiterate, I agree with the feat from a powerscaling perspective, but since we are looking at the technical aspect of the feat I feel there's too many unknown variables.

I disagree, I feel like we are needlessly complicating it for the sake of a Dichotomy that i don't think needs to exist

 

[Damage3245]

My issue is different to Golden Void's I believe. It's more to do with the mechanics of the amount of energy involved there not being enough evidence that the Chibaku Tensei has 15 Gigatons of potential energy / durability right from the start of its creation.

 

[Golden_Void]

By issue is different to Golden Void's I believe. It's more to do with the mechanics of the amount of energy involved there not being enough evidence that the Chibaku Tensei has 15 Gigatons of potential energy / durability right from the start of its creation.

I've made this point as well but we've stepped away from the math side of it.

 

[Jvando]

My issue is different to Golden Void's I believe. It's more to do with the mechanics of the amount of energy involved there not being enough evidence that the Chibaku Tensei has 15 Gigatons of potential energy / durability right from the start of its creation.

You’re right, it likely has a greater amount of potential energy as:

1) Nagato isn’t a dying cripple

2) He’s attempting to seal a Naruto (and Bee) who is much much more powerful than the one he faced before.

I see no reason why we can’t reasonably assume he put in at least that amount of energy into the CT sphere at its inception

And that aside, Shadow has already explained how a set amount of chakra is used for the jutsu at its inception. any additional chakra is superfluous.

At this point we aren’t going to convince each other. Might as well wait for a different voice to chime in.

 

[Damage3245]

You’re right, it likely has a greater amount of potential energy as:

1) Nagato isn’t a dying cripple

2) He’s attempting to seal a Naruto (and Bee) who is much much more powerful than the one he faced before.

I see no reason why we can’t reasonably assume he put in at least that amount of energy into the CT sphere at its inception

And that aside, Shadow has already explained how a set amount of chakra is used for the jutsu at its inception. any additional chakra is superfluous.

At this point we aren’t going to convince each other. Might as well wait for a different voice to chime in.

I don't think you quite got what I mean. I'm not saying Nagato would intentionally create a weaker CT.

I'm also not arguing about chakra amounts.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don't think you quite got what I mean. I'm not saying Nagato would intentionally create a weaker CT.

I'm also not arguing about chakra amounts.

Can you re-explain your issue? Maybe it just wasn’t clear with the way you previously worded it.

 

[Damage3245]

Can you re-explain your issue? Maybe it just wasn’t clear with the way you previously worded it.

Okay.

We agree that when the Chibaku Tensei is complete (at the moment it is calced) that the whole thing possesses 15 Gigatons of potential energy due to the amount of mass there, and since the core is the reason for it being up there than at that time the the core is what has 15 Gigatons of energy / 15 Gigatons durability.

I'm asking if whether the core can be reasonably assumed to possess that same amount of energy from the moment it is created, or whether it increases over time until it gets to the point it ended up at when it was calced which is 15 Gigatons.

Since the amount of gravitation / energy the core is putting out seems to start off small, attracting only small amounts of debris first then escalating over time, it seems to me that the core of the jutsu doesn't start out with an amount of energy that high but instead builds up to it. I'm not saying that the amount of mass added to the overall Chibaku Tensei is what speeds this up.

Since the trio blew apart the Core before the Chibaku Tensei could be fully formed / get as big as when Pain finished making the Chibaku Tensei then they destroyed it when its value was to some degree less than 15 Gigatons.

I wouldn't object to giving them a "Likely" for the feat, but due to the nature of the mechanics of the jutsu involved here I don't think it makes a lot of sense to scale them fully to the calc for the other Chibaku Tensei.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'm asking if whether the core can be reasonably assumed to possess that same amount of energy from the moment it is created, or whether it increases over time until it gets to the point it ended up at when it was calced which is 15 Gigatons.

To this I say, imagine you're lifting a 1 kg book, and you can lift it 1 meter (aka using mgh your hand can be scaled to ~10 joules), your hand doesn't have a lower rating if you lift it 0.5 meters. Your hand would still scale to those ~10 joules regardless of if you lift it 0.1 meters, 0.5 meters, or 0.9 meters. But ig I can see where you're coming from.

I wouldn't object to giving them a "Likely" for the feat, but due to the nature of the mechanics of the jutsu involved here I don't think it makes a lot of sense to scale them fully to the calc for the other Chibaku Tensei.

This is reasonable too if no other consensus is reached.

 

[Damage3245]

To this I say, imagine you're lifting a 1 kg book, and you can lift it 1 meter (aka using mgh your hand can be scaled to ~10 joules), your hand doesn't have a lower rating if you lift it 0.5 meters. Your hand would still scale to those ~10 joules regardless of if you lift it 0.1 meters, 0.5 meters, or 0.9 meters. But ig I can see where you're coming from.

I can see your logic in your analogy but I don't think that it is necessarily the only answer because the Chibaku Tensei jutsu doesn't behave just like our hand.

This is why I wanted to get the input of DT if possible, but I understand that DT is quite busy at the moment.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’m fine settling on a “likely” compromise for now, and then DT can revisit this if he chooses whenever he’s free.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

There's no reason to compromise when more staff are in favor with it scaling than those that are opposed.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Okay, so this is going to be my final post on this thread. If after you guys read my reply you still feel that a "Likely" compromise solution is the best way to go, then that's probably what we should proceed with. I think this thread has gone on long enough.
So after reading Shadow's comments, I have to say I'm more firmly in the agreement column now. No offense to the man, of course, but I did not find Golden Void's arguments convincing.
As for Damage's argument, I'm not sure I agree with it either quite frankly.

Since the amount of gravitation / energy the core is putting out seems to start off small, attracting only small amounts of debris first then escalating over time, it seems to me that the core of the jutsu doesn't start out with an amount of energy that high but instead builds up to it. I'm not saying that the amount of mass added to the overall Chibaku Tensei is what speeds this up.

Ngl Damage, I think you're exaggerating this process a bit. Here's the entire sequence of events from the moment Nagato created the sphere to the moment the trio destroyed it.
As you can see, the entire sequence takes place in 5 pages. The core starts attracting rocks here. In the span of this one page, the core starts attracting both small AND large rocks. I don't see the issue here, if I'm being honest. Of course the small rocks and pebbles will be the first things to be pulled because they are the lightest, smallest, and likely nearest to the surface. This means they'll be the first things affected by the core's gravity, in addition to having the least resistance to said gravity because of their low mass and volume. Of course the bigger rocks would come after. Am I missing something here? Because this seems like its exactly how this is supposed to go. It's simply easier to pull something with less mass than something with greater mass. Likewise, closer objects would be subject to more gravitational pull than farther objects, and they'd feel the effects faster, too.
In this one page, the CT was already well underway, and by the time the trio threw their attacks, it was already a decently sized sphere and attracting very large rocks.
I just don't see this as compelling evidence that the core gains in energy over time.

Since the trio blew apart the Core before the Chibaku Tensei could be fully formed / get as big as when Pain finished making the Chibaku Tensei then they destroyed it when its value was to some degree less than 15 Gigatons.

Yeah, they didn't destroy a fully formed CT, but that doesn't matter. Like I said, the effects of the CT don't really change over time, and I don't think there's any good evidence of that. The trio attacked a CT that was well underway from my perspective. If you look at Pain's CT, it also exhibits the exact same behavior.

So yeah, that's my take on this. I'll leave the decisions up to you guys with how you think we should proceed. I just don't think it's really worth splitting hairs here. This is fairly simple from my perspective.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So uhhhhhhh we good applying the uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpgrades then?

 

[Damage3245]

So uhhhhhhh we good applying the uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhpgrades then?

The majority seems to be in favor it. If DT becomes more active, I may consult about the mechanics of the feat with him in the future but I'm not going to stop it being applied now if that's what people want.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Cool ig I can apply the changes if someone unlocks Nard's and Itachi's profiles.

 

[BlackeJan]

I hope DT returns soon