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Kk is 100% talking about shrinking speed so at least it would translate to that. At the worst Baryon mode Naruto would scale
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Naruto Multiplier Additions
- Thread starter Ghostimuscrime
- Start date
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Neutral leaning toward Disagree for A-C, Agree D-E
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Section D and E im fine with. The rest ill have to look over again
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I mean I could see a possibly or likely. We do it a lot
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If other staff members are fine with a possibly, I won't oppose it tho
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- Thread starter
- #46
Absorption Power is just a headcanon argument here, absorbing a few flames does not require immense amounts of energy it requires speed, POWER interpretation would only make sense if jigen struggled against super large objects as we know teleportation type jutsu require more chakra for larger masses and you can argue this shrinking works similar to that and that does not occur at all
In that very fight scene Jigen's shrinking was considered instantaneous as well by KK so that point is entirely inaccurate and it exclusively talking about shrinking speed
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There's has to be specific implication for speed for a possibly/likely, which there is not.
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the Kakashi point is fair game IMO, he has the ability on his profile so he has the ability to use it. It would be insanely weird to have Kakashi scale over these characters when Kakashi is only Koji level (in speed), and he's never really been a relevant character in Boruto. I personally think possibly works, because Naruto Sasuke Isshiki etc etc, should logically scale above Kakashi in speed, even if he's never used it.
Not using it in character or it being a hypothetical doesn't give way to dismiss it entirely, First Gate is on Kakashi's profile so it should be properly indexed as such on his, and those who would/should logically scale to/above him. I'll share my thoughts on the other proposals later
Not using it in character or it being a hypothetical doesn't give way to dismiss it entirely, First Gate is on Kakashi's profile so it should be properly indexed as such on his, and those who would/should logically scale to/above him. I'll share my thoughts on the other proposals later
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For the record: I do agree Kakashi should have the multiplier noted for his speed. I just don't agree to scale it without an actual showing.
And I do agree with Option E fully. It seems straightforward to me.
And I do agree with Option E fully. It seems straightforward to me.
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- Thread starter
- #50
Testarossa002
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tbf, Damage probably disagrees with that too. It's not exactly a gotcha moment
Anyways
This is useful for the whole Naruto>>Kakashi thing
Naruto Retsuden; Chapter 3
The statement emphasizes that even while acknowledging Kakashi
It's a no brainer that Naruto exceeds whatever is in kakashi's arsenal
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- Thread starter
- #52
Do you think Isshiki does not have superiority over that form of Kakashi?
Does the novel statement brought up by Test convince you for a likely rating?
Also do I count your vote as disagree for A-C?
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I will chime in later.
KaydeeX
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I will wait for what Slayer brings, as I'm sure he will touch the topic. I will reserve judgement there.
This would be a yes
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I don’t really have time to touch on everything right now, but I will say that I disagree with Proposal A. The Asura Avatar didn’t exist in that key, so the MAS shouldn’t scale to it.
I’ll have to touch on the rest later.
I’ll have to touch on the rest later.
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That's a power statement, not a speed statement.
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- Thread starter
- #58
but power statements were judged with the assumption of overall combat ability instead of ap, that's the reason most people disagreed on Itachi scaling above bijuubombs despite being stated as a stronger force of obitos
Speed Advantages provide a clear chance of victory so for them to be considered the most powerful like that should grant them the speed scaling no?
(at least in their strongest forms)
Digital_Franz
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same with Speed imo.
Not really. Even without Speed, with range it's handled.
He literally struggled against the flames plus KK waited until Jigen was very weak and at his limit to attack him.
If it's the case then fair. I don't recall the full scene
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- Thread starter
- #60
For people that disagree with WA MAS being above AA
How does this proposal sound?
It should bare minimum be 2x due to being the combined power of Naruto and Sasuke
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- Thread starter
- #61
It's not at all, we have actual valid reasons to believe speed due to direct statements, I've repeated them a few times, it seems you're arguing more from belief rather than logic.
Range argument is quite literally not applicable here since they werent shrinking large size objects at all, especially not when the statement was made
He literally struggled against the flames plus KK waited until Jigen was very weak and at his limit to attack him.
If it's the case then fair. I don't recall the full scene
I think it is best for you to reread the fight scene as well as my arguments before replying, I am not using Jigen's prior speeds at all so bringing up that is useless.
Godernet
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So for Section A is there any reason we assume that MAS is a Multiplicative Amp that always increases power by the exact same amount?
Or that its above the multiplier of a Jutsu that doesn't exist yet by this point in time?
After all, they have much more mastery of jutsu by that point, more chakra, greater senjutsu in Naruto's case, etc.
it just being Naruto + Sasuke is better imo
Or that its above the multiplier of a Jutsu that doesn't exist yet by this point in time?
After all, they have much more mastery of jutsu by that point, more chakra, greater senjutsu in Naruto's case, etc.
it just being Naruto + Sasuke is better imo
Godernet
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For Section B, If I'm not mistaken we don't accept several individual usages of an attack to be a multiplier, because y'know, its not one concentrated energy value its several of the same energy value.
Ex: If someone hits you with 9 baseballs from different directions you didn't get hit with the combined numeric force of 9 baseballs, you got hit with 9 baseballs.
Kaguya also just straight up didn't take the full yield of the RS Barrage, so she wouldn't be 9x more durable for taking parts of several attacks at the same AP value.
Ex: If someone hits you with 9 baseballs from different directions you didn't get hit with the combined numeric force of 9 baseballs, you got hit with 9 baseballs.
Kaguya also just straight up didn't take the full yield of the RS Barrage, so she wouldn't be 9x more durable for taking parts of several attacks at the same AP value.
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Don't multi post, edit the previous comment
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- Thread starter
- #65
1) This jutsu is accepted under the same rule as a rasengan barrage
2) It uses 9 instead of 2, so the multiplier should be higher
3) If someone thinks this does not qualify under the same rule of RSB at all then feel free to consider it NOT a multiplier
But if you believe it is one as the wiki does, it did come together to make one big final blast then it should be 9x
4) I don't wish Kaguya to scale to this durability wise one bit
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Why are you taking each individual Rasengan Naruto creates to be 200 Teratons?
Godernet
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my bad Leph
It's actually not.
The reason that Rasengan Barrage is accepted was how the databook described the jutsu
Which was that Two Rasengan with inverse rotations clashing in a single area creates a jutsu with double the force of the regular Rasengan.
That's a very specific reason beyond just two Rasengan mean 2x power, and a stated multiplier to boot.
That's far more blatant than 9 explosions creating a single yield, which is something we just don't do on-site for any verse that I've seen.
I don't disagree
which is why we currently have it unquantifiably above 2x since it's a jutsu for sure above Rasengan Barrage but with nothing to quantify a specific multiplier.
This is definitely several clumped explosions rather than one concentrated one
gotchu
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- Thread starter
- #69
This is produced by the Susano, if Asura Avatar's individual rasenshuriken are 3x narutos base then 9 rasengan made from the MAS should logically be 9x that no?
He does not really give them stuff prior or outside the wargod
I was gonna disagree but after reviewing the anime scene (it basically did what you just described) I am not going to argue in support of that particular combo being listed as 7 ZT
That being said it also kinda ruins it falling under the RSG rule, as they did not clash logically Kaguya should get her 2x durability rating off no?
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Naruto's base Rasengans at that time aren't 200 Teratons, are they?
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- Thread starter
- #71
They are not, Naruto's Base is 100 TT
I am counting his increased power that comes from their combined avatars so 2x
Godernet
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no cause even base RS is above Rasengan Barrage, and she took 9 of them.
even if they don't compound into a jutsu 9x stronger than Rasengan she was still in the epicenter of a jutsu comprised of 9 explosions all twice as strong as the Rasengan and barely suffered scratches.
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What makes you assume that Sasuke is contributing anything towards the Rasengans being made?
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- Thread starter
- #74
1) Sasuke and Naruto always move in unison, both of them have perfectly displayed teamwork on the highest level, he moved simultaneously with Naruto when it comes to attacking Juubito with the sword, so he would be supporting naruto through the entire process
2) Naruto has access to the tails and can freely manipulate it, we are not gonna assume their durability is any less than 2x, so since the body of wargod retains 200TT, Naruto uses it to host them inside, cloak them and shoot them, all of these things require full access of the MAS who's avatar stats are 200 TT to execute so they should be individually 200 TT instead of multiplying 9 on 100TT
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- Thread starter
- #75
I would like to refresh everyone's memory one final time about Section D as I find the
rejections utterly unreasonable before Slayer gives his opinion as I'm unsure when he'll
comment.
-No one is disagreeing with First Gate Kakashi being 45.6C
The exclusion of Kakashi’s First Gate is not an oversight but a narrative decision that reflects
his limitations. It serves as an implicit statement: the village considered all options, and yet,
Kakashi was simply not strong enough for his speed boost to matter. Shinobi are incredibly
intelligent beings they're not going to overlook possibilities when making judgement.
Canon Statements :
1) Kakakshi admits inferiority to Naruto and Sasuke
2) Kakashi was not good enough to bring to fight Momoshiki unlike stat-merchant gokage
3)In the most desperate and needy situations of Konoha, only narusasu stand a substantial
chance
So what do we get from this? Kakashi is repeatedly dismissed by the narrative due to
his inferiority, hence making him fight Isshiki with the first gate would be immensely redundant
as well as water down the immense tier gap they're trying to portray and accidentally make the
audience think he stands a chance.
so NOT having it is not a defeater of my argument due at all. If anything it's supporter.
Atp it's very blatant and in your face that Isshiki should be scaled above. You do not need explicit
statements for every little detail that isn't how human communication works and it is definitely
not how the story gets told, it's perfectly fine to make a logical assumption if the implications
are sound enough
Naruto and Sasuke contemplating death itself provides an irrefutable ground for saying
everything in their arsenal is ineffective, for this reason Isshiki was scaled above a hypothetical
MAS. So for the same logic Isshiki should scale above this hypothetical form.
rejections utterly unreasonable before Slayer gives his opinion as I'm unsure when he'll
comment.
-No one is disagreeing with First Gate Kakashi being 45.6C
The exclusion of Kakashi’s First Gate is not an oversight but a narrative decision that reflects
his limitations. It serves as an implicit statement: the village considered all options, and yet,
Kakashi was simply not strong enough for his speed boost to matter. Shinobi are incredibly
intelligent beings they're not going to overlook possibilities when making judgement.
Canon Statements :
1) Kakakshi admits inferiority to Naruto and Sasuke
2) Kakashi was not good enough to bring to fight Momoshiki unlike stat-merchant gokage
3)In the most desperate and needy situations of Konoha, only narusasu stand a substantial
chance
So what do we get from this? Kakashi is repeatedly dismissed by the narrative due to
his inferiority, hence making him fight Isshiki with the first gate would be immensely redundant
as well as water down the immense tier gap they're trying to portray and accidentally make the
audience think he stands a chance.
so NOT having it is not a defeater of my argument due at all. If anything it's supporter.
Atp it's very blatant and in your face that Isshiki should be scaled above. You do not need explicit
statements for every little detail that isn't how human communication works and it is definitely
not how the story gets told, it's perfectly fine to make a logical assumption if the implications
are sound enough
Naruto and Sasuke contemplating death itself provides an irrefutable ground for saying
everything in their arsenal is ineffective, for this reason Isshiki was scaled above a hypothetical
MAS. So for the same logic Isshiki should scale above this hypothetical form.
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- Thread starter
- #76
Please be logical, He cannot use in the war out of concern of the strain debilitating him and other instances weren’t energies or wouldn’t have him benefit from its use much
There’s no evidence he doesn’t use it in normal combat
He didn’t just use it once and dump it off
He obviously used in normal missions, he’s learned and trained with it enough know how to perfectly execute it in times of need so it’s definitely an important ability in his arsenal
MinatoSparkle
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Whether others scale above it is one thing, but it's definitely not the case that it's an important ability in his arsenal. I'm pretty sure he literally only used it that one time in training and that's it.
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D and E look fine, not so much the others.
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Wait so will Kakashi be the speed peak of the verse or did I read the CRT wrong
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In terms of numbers, yes. But Naruto, Sasuke and Isshiki, as well as other TBV characters will be above him.
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