Baryon Mode Naruto Big Stronk

[Samlex1234]

Ah, yeah.

I did a teensy bit of AI translating of the section in the original Japanese as well, and got:



Or:



Or:



Or:



I'm not completely throwing my confidence in the powers of AI here but that's four different online methods I've tried using to translate it.

Given that the "official" translation admittedly also uses machine translation, it's hard to see why their method in particular would inherently be more accurate than all these other methods which don't have any specific implication for Baryon Mode exceeding all previously existing levels of energy.

Honestly even if it was correct, I think your argument still stands as

"Heretofore unseen level of energy" could be referring to unseen levels of energy for Naruto and Kurama I mean it is nothing like they have ever produced.

At best I feel like this statement can only play a supportive role as it is too vague even for a likely or possibly rating, not to talk of a concrete one.

 

[Damage3245]

Contextually speaking, I think that the AI translations and Arc's translation matches what is happening in the manga more.

Naruto's and Kurama's chakras are undergoing fusion to produce a "whole other, new type of energy."

That lines up wth the translation of "generates an entirely distinct enormous energy by means of fusion" and "creating a completely different and massive energy output".

It may be the official translator has combined "completely different/ entirely distinct" and "massive/enormous energy" to produce the translated result of "heretofore unseen level of energy".

But both Arc's and the AI's translations line up with the manga. So I don't have a lot of faith in the solidness of the statement from the official English page.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Idk how I feel about this tbh…

 

[MasqueTLDF]

Tier 4 Naruto??? New Argument??? And there's decent evidence??? Agree!

 

[That_moron2]

Idk how I feel about this tbh…

I don't feel, I'm dead on the inside

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm of two minds: 1) while the method of translation is machine, it's still the official translation, and is what the official website decided to go with + the translation isn't inherently incorrect either,

Ehhh that kinda seems like an appeal to improper authority.

but 2) I do agree that it being MTL does provide more room for debate regarding interpretations and translations of the kanji characters themselves. Tentatively, I'd say that shifts my mind into leaning more towards a partial rating if it gets one, but I'll defer to staff judgment on that.

I'm OK with possibly

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ehhh that kinda seems like an appeal to improper authority.

It's not, since I'm not claiming "authority said so" as my sole justification, my argument as I explicitly mentioned was that 1) the official TL isn't incorrect + 2) given the many equivocations presented to us, the official should hold more weight than a fan TL, given the official isn't inherently incorrect. However, I'm shifting a bit more neutral on that in general after finding out the official is MTL, hence the shift to possibly/leave it up to staff.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It's not, since I'm not claiming "authority said so" as my sole justification, my argument as I explicitly mentioned was that 1) the official TL isn't incorrect + 2) given the many equivocations presented to us, the official should hold more weight than a fan TL, given the official isn't inherently incorrect. However, I'm shifting a bit more neutral on that in general after finding out the official is MTL, hence the shift to possibly/leave it up to staff.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's an appeal to improper authority by deferring to it over the fan translation just cause it's official, cause the official translation has no more reason to be accurate as it's not a japanese expert giving their interpretation. I won't argue about it more until Qliphoth gives their opinion tho

 

[Tyri456]

OFFICIAL translation should absolutely take precedence over any fan interpretation contradicting such

I usually agree with your arguments and post but personally I don’t agree with this at all, saying absolutely take precedence is excessive, people who make translations are just people very knowledgeable with the language, they don’t have better knowledge of you in the verse at all, there are dozens of terrible examples on VIZ that show that despite they know how to translate there are in-verse errors.
And lot of example, when fan translation did way better than official. Those are just companies that translate, the actual real source is what written directly in the original language of the work.

Beside that, considering the 2nd accurate translation, and the point @Damage3245 brought up with manga, it’s really hard for me to see any connection with the ETBS, so I disagree.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Honestly even if it was correct, I think your argument still stands as

"Heretofore unseen level of energy" could be referring to unseen levels of energy for Naruto and Kurama I mean it is nothing like they have ever produced.

At best I feel like this statement can only play a supportive role as it is too vague even for a likely or possibly rating, not to talk of a concrete one.

i agree with Samlex here, i don't think there's enough evidence to assume it's talking all ninjutsu and all power ever seen throughout history, especially with other translations brought up, it seems more like an entirely new level of power/energy generated by Naruto and Kurama specifically which kinda does line up with that baryon mode is and how unlike other modes it is.

 

[Naeblis495]

Disagree.

Even if Arc's translation is 100% accurate, we never saw the full yield/potential of the ETSO in the serie, it got stopped before doing so. So that statement can't refer to it's full dimension destructive potential in terms of AP.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Snip

Ha see Alan? I told you this argument isn't completely stupid!

 

[DavidTPPM]

Damage's reasons are cool and all but are we not gonna talk about this elephant in the room

Anyway I thought about this and I think this should be safe to use.

You see the page was originally translated differently and only recently got changed to this translation. Furthermore the raws say nothing about "heretofore unseen level of energy". Like you can try to ask any AI or translation machine and it won't give you anything like that.

I think this very clearly proves human input is responsible for this version and is the intended interpretation of the page.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Qliphoth_Bacikal If you wouldn't mind, could you lend us your views on this section of text?

This is hell, but alright.

Naruto and Kurama's chakra, rather than being "kneaded together" instead undergoes "fusion", generating a whole distinct yet greater level of energy as a by-product.

This what I and a friend who also knows JP had checked to see what we get and this we got.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Ha see Alan? I told you this argument isn't completely stupid!

You mean BM Naruto>ETSO?

Anyway I thought about this and I think this should be safe to use.

You see the page was originally translated differently and only recently got changed to this translation. Furthermore the raws say nothing about "heretofore unseen level of energy". Like you can try to ask any AI or translation machine and it won't give you anything like that.

I think this very clearly proves human input is responsible for this version and is the intended interpretation of the page.

If that is the case (if), that can just be another example of VIZ taking creative liberties which I'm not sure about the validity of. It's like them just adding statements that don't exist in the raws at all like SM Madara>Juubito and Rasenshuriken~Minato

 

[DavidTPPM]

You mean BM Naruto>ETSO?

I mean specifically based on this statement. I brought it up few days ago on discord.

If that is the case (if), that can just be another example of VIZ taking creative liberties which I'm not sure about the validity of. It's like them just adding statements that don't exist in the raws at all like SM Madara>Juubito and Rasenshuriken~Minato

Uhhh idk but what's important to me is that they had a different translation and specifically changed it for this one.
This means that regardless of potential inconsistency with the raws, this version was specifically picked over the other by a human and should be valid. And given it's narrative consistency and lack of contradictions, I don't see a reason to not use it.

That being said, if we use this argument.

Even if Arc's translation is 100% accurate, we never saw the full yield/potential of the ETSO in the serie, it got stopped before doing so. So that statement can't refer to it's full dimension destructive potential in terms of AP.

Then we can still scale BM Naruto to H5-A based on the per-second ETSO output.

Worst case scenario I believe the statement should still be enough to give BM Naruto at least a "likely" or "possibly" high 5-A. Best case scenario it should blatantly make him 4-B

 

[GTsek]

I disagree, there is a confusion in the translation of the website. From my knowledge of Japanese, I see that the confusion starts with this sentence: "全く別の大きなエネルギーを発生させる" (mattaku betsu no ōkina enerugī wo hassei saseru). "全く別" (Mattaku betsu) means "completely different" and "大きなエネルギー" (Ōkina Enerugī) means "great energy", putting the words together with the context, the correct translation is "A great energy completely different". Probably the website's automatic translation interpreted "completely different" as "a heretofore unseen", and it's not wrong, it was just misinterpreted, as it is saying that it has never been seen before because it is a new type of energy, and not necessarily because which is an energy greater than all the others energies seen in the series. Probably the translation error is in the "Ōkina Enerugī" part, which was translated as "level of energy ", but it just means "great energy", so when you read the sentence "a heretofore unseen level of energy" you interpret that "a heretofore unseen" is about the amount of energy, however, when you see the correct translation "A great energy completely different" you can see this are talking about the type of energy and not of the quantity.

A more accurate translation would be:

"By "fusing" Naruto and Kurama's chakras, rather than "kneaded together" as usual, a great energy completely different is generated as a byproduct."

Note: You can read the "Great" as "Enormous" or any other ways to tell something "big".

 

[HelloThere1089]

"Great" as "Enormous" or any other ways to tell something "big".

That's what she said.

Anyways I'm neutral, leaning to disagree atm. I initially did think of the statement the same way as OP, but the translation bit didn't cross my mind. If the official translations were accurate I prolly would have agreed. The same way I would have agreed to a MAS upgrade.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I mean specifically based on this statement. I brought it up few days ago on discord.

Yea that's what I meant

Uhhh idk but what's important to me is that they had a different translation and specifically changed it for this one.
This means that regardless of potential inconsistency with the raws, this version was specifically picked over the other by a human and should be valid. And given it's narrative consistency and lack of contradictions, I don't see a reason to not use it.

I don't think intentionally picked by a human automatically = valid. The thought process could literally just be "Hm I could translate it literally or spruce it up to sound cooler"

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yea that's what I meant

I don't think intentionally picked by a human automatically = valid. The thought process could literally just be "Hm I could translate it literally or spruce it up to sound cooler"

Point is that it being translated using MTL doesn't matter as differences between this and the raws are a result of human input and are intentional.

And since the site IS still official, I don't see a reason to put the Japanese version on this high pedestal where everything that's not included in it is automatically wrong and non-canon

 

[karo_senpaii]

I firmly believe that Isshiki is far superior to Kaguya, even with her Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO), and the difference is significant. Given this, Baryon Mode should also operate on a comparable level.
However, what I dislike is the inconsistency and hypocrisy. How can someone spend hours arguing against Majestic Attire Susano’o (MAS) despite all the available evidence, only to turn around and use similar reasoning to hype Baryon Mode?

If MAS isn’t considered the strongest offensive and defensive technique in shinobi history, why should Baryon Mode—simply described as ‘releasing an unseen level of energy as a byproduct’—be greater than all the energy outputs we’ve witnessed? When it might only be ‘unseen’ in terms of the energy produced specifically by Naruto and Kurama, not and necessarily in comparison to all other shinobi techniques.

Honestly I could go into many things wrong with this including multiple fallacies but I will leave it for now.

Bro you're literally disagreeing out of spite.

 

[karo_senpaii]

This is hell, but alright.



This what I and a friend who also knows JP had checked to see what we get and this we got.

This seems to favour arc's stance though

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Point is that it being translated using MTL doesn't matter as differences between this and the raws are a result of human input and are intentional.

And since the site IS still official, I don't see a reason to put the Japanese version on this high pedestal where everything that's not included in it is automatically wrong and non-canon

It's not automatically wrong, but it's not concrete either.

 

[DavidTPPM]

It's automatically wrong, but it's not concrete either.

Wtf does that even mean

 

[HelloThere1089]

Wtf does that even mean

Prolly meant it's not automatically wrong, but it's not concrete either.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Wtf does that even mean

Typo

 

[karo_senpaii]

Anyway I thought about this and I think this should be safe to use.

You see the page was originally translated differently and only recently got changed to this translation. Furthermore the raws say nothing about "heretofore unseen level of energy". Like you can try to ask any AI or translation machine and it won't give you anything like that.

I think this very clearly proves human input is responsible for this version and is the intended interpretation of the page.

This here. First it says "this site includes". Meaning not all text are translated by machine, just some.

Going by the fact that this was recently changed I don't think they found error on the translation and decided to replace it with another Machine translation. I think the rating is fine or a likely or possibly at least

 

[DavidTPPM]

This here. First it says "this site includes". Meaning not all text are translated by machine, just some.

Going by the fact that this was recently changed I don't think they found error on the translation and decided to replace it with another Machine translation. I think the rating is fine or a likely or possibly at least

Yeah thats exactly my point.
Especially since the translation currently used is something that a machine translator won't give you by itself. I tried checking ChatGPT, Google translate, and DeepL and none of them give anything similar to it. ChatGPT even told me they meaning of the words and it's not like this is just some synonym either.

That should make it more than clear enough that this isn't just a mistranslation done by a machine.

 

[Robo432343]

is the translation right or wrong

 

[Naeblis495]

Then we can still scale BM Naruto to H5-A based on the per-second ETSO output.

Worst case scenario I believe the statement should still be enough to give BM Naruto at least a "likely" or "possibly" high 5-A. Best case scenario it should blatantly make him 4-B

Yeh that would work.

But arc's translation doesn't even seem to be correct with the "Unseen level of energy" part so i also disagree with high 5-A unless there is more proof.

 

[DavidTPPM]

But arc's translation doesn't even seem to be correct with the "Unseen level of energy" part so i also disagree with high 5-A unless there is more proof.

I addressed that as well

You see the page was originally translated differently and only recently got changed to this translation. Furthermore the raws say nothing about "heretofore unseen level of energy". Like you can try to ask any AI or translation machine and it won't give you anything like that.

I think this very clearly proves human input is responsible for this version and is the intended interpretation of the page.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Yeh that would work.

But arc's translation doesn't even seem to be correct with the "Unseen level of energy" part so i also disagree with high 5-A unless there is more proof.

The word distinct denotes not comparable to anything else . While it isn't full proof I can see why the official translation chooses to use such wording

 

[Naeblis495]

I addressed that as well

And i disagree. Inventing words that are not there will not get you anywhere.

 

[Robo432343]

And i disagree. Inventing words that are not there will not get you anywhere.

no one did that tho??

 

[Naeblis495]

no one did that tho??

Apparently yes. Translation helper Qliphoth and his friend did not translate it as "level of energy unseen before" but simply as "greater level of energy".

This "level of energy unseen before" is simply Viz inventing words and meanings out of nowhere like many times in the past.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Apparently yes. Translation helper Qliphoth and his friend did not translate it as "level of energy unseen before" but simply as "greater level of energy".

This "level of energy unseen before" is simply Viz inventing words and meanings out of nowhere like many times in the past.

At this point we're just going in circles because I talked about that as well.

Point is that it being translated using MTL doesn't matter as differences between this and the raws are a result of human input and are intentional.

And since the site IS still official, I don't see a reason to put the Japanese version on this high pedestal where everything that's not included in it is automatically wrong and non-canon

The official database is saying this and is (almost 100%) not a result of a mistranslation. The issue with "Viz inventing words" in the manga is that it changes and contradicts the story, often times due to actual mistranslations. This is different.

 

[Naeblis495]

At this point we're just going in circles because I talked about that as well.

The official database is saying this and is (almost 100%) not a result of a mistranslation. The issue with "Viz inventing words" in the manga is that it changes and contradicts the story, often times due to actual mistranslations. This is different.

You giving your opinion isn't adressing my issues. Your arguments didn't convince me.

You disregards the MANY other interpretations , none of wich even come close to "unseen level of energy" just to prop up a clear mistake in translation ,wich Viz is infammous for ?

Aight. i still disagree until further evidences are presented.

 

[Nierre]

yeah i disagree fra

 

[HelloThere1089]

Tbh as things stand, MAS does have a better shot at getting a rating above ETSO.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Yeah....I don't think it's a good idea to pass such changes where the majority of argument hinges on a machine translation (that isn't even one-to-one with raws or other translations) being "not technically wrong"

plus it's not like that's the only interpretation of that statement either. It could just be referring to baryon mode being unlike any other power up that Naruto and kurama specifically have done before, which doesn't necessitate it scaling above ETSO's maximum potential output