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Majin Dante,Mundus and Sparda Upgrades
- Thread starter Austrian-Man-Meat
- Start date
- Status
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[It's good to be back, how are you guys?]
Anyway, there's something I don't quite get here, I feel like this is being overlooked, but, let's say that Mundus is indeed capable of merging two universes, how does this translate to stats such as durability / attack potency / destructive capacity?
Space-time manipulation feats do not translate to attack potency or durability, because it's hax, should we say that characters who are capable of slicing a continent in half thanks to having the ability to cut space-time have large country level durability/attack potency? No, because hax is unrelated to stats, Mundus' power of being able to, allegedly, fuse 2 space-time continuums falls directly under space-time manipulation. And he is not the first demon to show it. According to Austrian-Man-Meat there is a demon capable of interdimensional travel, which is a form of space-time manipulation.
A space-time continuum, like another user mentioned here, can have any sort of size. If I fuse two room-sized space-time continuums do I count as multi room-level? No, I obviously do not.
If this was true, I firmly believe that this should count as reality warping and nothing more, it should not count towards any stats.
The thing with the pocket dimension, I will discuss later if I get the chance.
Anyway, there's something I don't quite get here, I feel like this is being overlooked, but, let's say that Mundus is indeed capable of merging two universes, how does this translate to stats such as durability / attack potency / destructive capacity?
Space-time manipulation feats do not translate to attack potency or durability, because it's hax, should we say that characters who are capable of slicing a continent in half thanks to having the ability to cut space-time have large country level durability/attack potency? No, because hax is unrelated to stats, Mundus' power of being able to, allegedly, fuse 2 space-time continuums falls directly under space-time manipulation. And he is not the first demon to show it. According to Austrian-Man-Meat there is a demon capable of interdimensional travel, which is a form of space-time manipulation.
A space-time continuum, like another user mentioned here, can have any sort of size. If I fuse two room-sized space-time continuums do I count as multi room-level? No, I obviously do not.
If this was true, I firmly believe that this should count as reality warping and nothing more, it should not count towards any stats.
The thing with the pocket dimension, I will discuss later if I get the chance.
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well from what ik fusing 2 completely different space-time continiums is a 4-D feat so it sort of scales to AP/durability but they have to be universal which the demon world and human world are both universalSpecN said:
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@TISSG7Redgrave
Sure, the hax can be 4-dimensional, but that doesn't mean the entity using it is. Kaguya can destroy space-time continuums of varying sizes (presumably planet-sized), but she is not considered to be a 4-dimensional entity.
There's hax, and then there's stats, both are completely separate.
Sure, the hax can be 4-dimensional, but that doesn't mean the entity using it is. Kaguya can destroy space-time continuums of varying sizes (presumably planet-sized), but she is not considered to be a 4-dimensional entity.
There's hax, and then there's stats, both are completely separate.
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^I think we already cleared that up earlier on in the thread...
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if its universe Spec it counts more to the low 2-C area but if planet ofc it wil just count as hax though the demon and human world as individually universe sized
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@TISSG7Redgrave
My friend, I cannot agree with that. Being able to affect space and time to varying degrees, regardless of range, is a 4-dimensional power, but that doesn't mean the person using said power is a 4-dimensional entity.
For example, look at Diavolo, he can erase time on a planetary scale at the very least, does that mean he is a 4-dimensional entity? No. Why? Because it's hax.
Johnny Joestar's Tusk Act 4 can outright shred through dimensional walls and affect people existing in separate dimensions. 4-dimensional power? Yes. 4-dimensional entity? No. Why? Hax.
And the list goes on.
Hax and stats have always been separate, what one needs to do in order to prove that Mundus is a 4-dimensional entity is if he transcends space, which he clearly does not.
My friend, I cannot agree with that. Being able to affect space and time to varying degrees, regardless of range, is a 4-dimensional power, but that doesn't mean the person using said power is a 4-dimensional entity.
For example, look at Diavolo, he can erase time on a planetary scale at the very least, does that mean he is a 4-dimensional entity? No. Why? Because it's hax.
Johnny Joestar's Tusk Act 4 can outright shred through dimensional walls and affect people existing in separate dimensions. 4-dimensional power? Yes. 4-dimensional entity? No. Why? Hax.
And the list goes on.
Hax and stats have always been separate, what one needs to do in order to prove that Mundus is a 4-dimensional entity is if he transcends space, which he clearly does not.
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i think you miss understood me ik i didn't mean that mundus merged 2 space-time continiumms forcfully and made both time synconized unlike before and sparda forcefully sepereated them those examples are not because diavolo affected the universe true put erased time and didn't effect 2 universe time continiumms johnny's range is multi-universal because he can follow valentine anywhere but i never effected the space-time continiumm of the other universesSpecN said:
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Didn't the OP say he created the dimensions that houses the stars? That should warrant for a MSS rating if nothing controdicts it.. Anyway, Ant what do you think?
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i still find it funny that it went from MSS discussion to universal+ discussion lolPietro Maximoff said:
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^Me to....
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@TISSG7Redgrave
Yet he actually did, according to the description of Valentine's D4C, he travels to parallel dimensions, which are, of course, separate space-time continuums, so yes, Tusk ACT 4 did pierce through space-time continuums to get to Valentine.
But no-one is saying that Johnny's body has the attributes of an entity that transcends space.
This is the exact same case.
Yet he actually did, according to the description of Valentine's D4C, he travels to parallel dimensions, which are, of course, separate space-time continuums, so yes, Tusk ACT 4 did pierce through space-time continuums to get to Valentine.
But no-one is saying that Johnny's body has the attributes of an entity that transcends space.
This is the exact same case.
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So your saying that merging in this case counts has nothing because its an abitlity rather than raw power. Even if mundus did merge the human world ( which is at the least planet sized ) with the demon world (which is described has an infinite universe and they use word "world" to describe the demon world as an infinite universe ) its still not a planet level feat ?
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I think that would make only your range multi galatic, but if you were to destroy or effect those galaxys in the process then i would say yes
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I humbly disagree. There is a reason it is called "hax" in the first place, you know. Fiction is not consistent with reality.
If I, as a relistic entity, did indeed have the power to tear apart space-time without the aid of machinery, yes, I would be 4-dimensional.
But this is not necesarily the case in fiction. What does it mean to be 4-dimensional?
It means that distance is irrelevant to you because you can move through time freely in any direction, this is natural movement to you.
Update: *The site was acting up for me*
And yet you have people in fiction who can tear through space-time and manipulate it by their own power and are not 4-dimensional entities.
If I, as a relistic entity, did indeed have the power to tear apart space-time without the aid of machinery, yes, I would be 4-dimensional.
But this is not necesarily the case in fiction. What does it mean to be 4-dimensional?
It means that distance is irrelevant to you because you can move through time freely in any direction, this is natural movement to you.
Update: *The site was acting up for me*
And yet you have people in fiction who can tear through space-time and manipulate it by their own power and are not 4-dimensional entities.
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i think mundus in this case is affecting the earth because he is moving the palnet and its entirety
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mundus did the feat forceful on his own i don't think he used any help but his own strength not hax iirc
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From my understanding things are called hax because of how extremely op they are. they go beyond just power and into cheat/broke/wtf teritory also i find that a bit unfair that if you are able to affect multiple galaxys with a single sword swing of a space tme hax that it wouldnt translate to Afecting multiple gaxalys or something close with an atck potensy reasonibly simialr following . also i just mean the attck potensy not durability
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Attck potency it on this wiki so just go look it up man
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Well, in case Mundus was defeated by fireballs and bullets, in case he truly merged the entire two universes, rather than opened a comparatively tiny Earth-sized portal between them, and the manga that the above scans were taken from indeed is confirmed canon, then he seems to be a massive glass cannon in the vein of Haruhi Suzumiya or James Jaspers, and not be able to use anywhere near Low 2-C power as practical Attack Potency.
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whats your deal with me man ? what did i do ? All im saying is if you have an attack or a hax like MEoDP that has the power to destroy something like a universe or wall or something greater then you shoud have that attack potensy , am i wrong ? im sorry if i am.
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I think he means that he's somewhere less then low 2-C
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i Agree with that being somewhere less than than low 2 c,
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@Kingrandy7 I have no gripes with you whatsoever, excuse me if I came off as so.
Yes, Shiki's MEoDP is a good example of hax that is not attack potency. Shiki's MEoDP allowes her to erase the concepts of things, which allows her to destroy anything, including an entire space-time continuum (if it was condensed anyway, her range is nothing special). But that doesn't mean that Shiki is Low 2-C, rather, her power EMULATES those of a Low 2-C entity.
This is what hax means.
Yes, Shiki's MEoDP is a good example of hax that is not attack potency. Shiki's MEoDP allowes her to erase the concepts of things, which allows her to destroy anything, including an entire space-time continuum (if it was condensed anyway, her range is nothing special). But that doesn't mean that Shiki is Low 2-C, rather, her power EMULATES those of a Low 2-C entity.
This is what hax means.
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But it could mean the fireballs were strong enough to hurt him because those were sparda's powers and mundus was sealed by jackpot not killed after mundus ripped a hole through the human world to chase dante he took all his attacks and said they were weak so it seems dante in DMC 1 couldn't trully damage him until he had his fathers powers but that changed in DMC 2 when Dante full mastered his powers and surpassed spardaAntvasima said:
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Well, we need to evaluate whether Mundus truly merged two universes, or if he simply opened a link between two tiny parts of them, and if the manga is confirmed to be canon by Capcom itself.
However, even if we get positives in these areas, if Mundus was shown to be a glass cannon, we will have to separate his realm merging as a hax feat.
In fact, now that I think about it, Adam Warlock should also have his tier adjusted the same way. He was certainly never shown as a beyond planet level combatant in the Guardians of the Galaxy comicbook, despite managing to merge two timelines together.
However, even if we get positives in these areas, if Mundus was shown to be a glass cannon, we will have to separate his realm merging as a hax feat.
In fact, now that I think about it, Adam Warlock should also have his tier adjusted the same way. He was certainly never shown as a beyond planet level combatant in the Guardians of the Galaxy comicbook, despite managing to merge two timelines together.
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So what to we we have guys ? ant what exacty do you think he should be rated ? do we still have somthing definitive going ? SpecN brought up some points that i think challenged having any upgrade at all, so where are we
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@TISSG7Redgrave
"But it could mean the fireballs were strong enough to hurt him because those were sparda's powers and mundus was sealed by jackpot not killed after mundus ripped a hole through the human world to chase dante he took all his attacks and said they were weak so it seems dante in DMC 1 couldn't trully damage him until he had his fathers powers but that changed in DMC 2 when Dante full mastered his powers and surpassed sparda"
Can said fireballs and bullets pierce through space-time? Because that is the minimum required to damage an entity that transcends the 3rd dimension.
"But it could mean the fireballs were strong enough to hurt him because those were sparda's powers and mundus was sealed by jackpot not killed after mundus ripped a hole through the human world to chase dante he took all his attacks and said they were weak so it seems dante in DMC 1 couldn't trully damage him until he had his fathers powers but that changed in DMC 2 when Dante full mastered his powers and surpassed sparda"
Can said fireballs and bullets pierce through space-time? Because that is the minimum required to damage an entity that transcends the 3rd dimension.
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sparda seperated the space-time continiumm forcefully again reversing what mundus did and in dmc 1 Dante used the sparda to fight mundus as none of his weapons were effective in the slightest to mundus sealed because he combined the guns with his and trish's power but only to seal him. So i don't think he is glass canon
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