Majin Dante,Mundus and Sparda Upgrades

[Gabriel_00]

Why exactly mundus DC doesn't scale with his durability?

 

[Phantasys]

Personally I think they're fine the way they are. Going to planet level would require definite proof that Mundus made the entire area they fought it AND that area was indeed planet sized.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe we can use "At least" for their current tiers, combined with "Up to Planet level"?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

hmmm maybe Ant but i guess more opinions might work

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Ant I agree with that suggestion and possibly place "likely Planet Level"

 

[Gabriel_00]

There's still the "mergin the demon and human world" feat, wich is at least planet level.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

It was agreed further up that there is no evidence that Mundus merged anything.

 

[ThePerpetual]

There's still the "mergin the demon and human world" feat, wich is at least planet level.

I'm pretty sure this thread's moved well past that at this point. I think it just sort of evolved into an argument over whether or not world meant planet or universe.

 

[ThePerpetual]

@Antvas

@Dragonmaster

Agreed. Something along those lines should work.

 

[SaberLily345]

It was agreed further up that there is no evidence that Mundus merged anything.

What about DMC2 where beings weaker than Mundus did in fact cause a merger?

Despair Embodied and Arius both did it even effecting cosmology and warping space as they all state that "The Demon World is getting closer" Dante even accelerates it with the Sacrilege item which states "This will generate a distortion that will bring the Demon World closer" and it futhers the Human Worlds transformation into the Demon World

Despair Embodied and Arias's ritual pale in comparison to the power of Mundus.


Also on the demon worlds size being universal rather than planetary i think the Mirror World is a good point as it is a dimension that is in between the Demon and Human world and shares the Human Worlds cosmology so obviously it is larger than simply the planet

Also the raw translation uses the word Sekai and the paticular kana meaning World, Society or Universe considering its context it most likely ment universe.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

It was agreed further up that there is no evidence that Mundus merged anything.

What about DMC2 where beings weaker than Mundus did in fact cause a merger?
Despair Embodied and Arius both did it even effecting cosmology and warping space as they all state that "The Demon World is getting closer" Dante even accelerates it with the Sacrilege item which states "This will generate a distortion that will bring the Demon World closer" and it futhers the Human Worlds transformation into the Demon World

Despair Embodied and Arias's ritual pale in comparison to the power of Mundus.


Also on the demon worlds size being universal rather than planetary i think the Mirror World is a good point as it is a dimension that is in between the Demon and Human world and shares the Human Worlds cosmology so obviously it is larger than simply the planet

Also the raw translation uses the word Sekai and the paticular kana meaning World, Society or Universe considering its context it most likely ment universe.

I completely forgot about the DMC2 merge and the sacrilige item. This is a very good point.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

really that happened??? wow I forgot/missed a lot of DMC 2 XD

 

[Asdtgh]

Wait, I don't get it. In summary, do they get a power upgrade or not? This is really confusing

 

[Antvasima]

We are waiting for SpecN to say what he thinks, but I am fine with the upgrades that I mentioned earlier. Not higher though.

 

[ThePerpetual]

@ SaberLily

Warping space doesn't make one any given level of power, even very "weak" characters, technically speaking, can have very potent or hax spatial manipulation. However, this seems to be further evidence suggesting Planet level, as an object wielding power on a planetary scale is below Mundus.

The problem with this is that the cosmology around the Human World isn't a part of the Human World as it is defined, strictly speaking. It is defined as Earth, or the place where the humans live, and consistently used in that context. We can't assume that this also means the stars and space around it, as the human race of the DMC-verse don't yet have interstellar travel and haven't explored other planets (at least, definitely not from what I've seen, if this is somehow wrong feel free to correct me.) That's why this can't be counted as anything more than a planetary feat, we can't prove that it is so. It's possible, perhaps, but not likely given the consistency with which the Human World is used to refer to the place where the humans live.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Good point.

 

[SaberLily015]

The problem with this is that the cosmology around the Human World isn't a part of the Human World as it is defined, strictly speaking. It is defined as Earth, or the place where the humans live, and consistently used in that context. We can't assume that this also means the stars and space around it, as the human race of the DMC-verse don't yet have interstellar travel and haven't explored other planets (at least, definitely not from what I've seen, if this is somehow wrong feel free to correct me.) That's why this can't be counted as anything more than a planetary feat, we can't prove that it is so. It's possible, perhaps, but not likely given the consistency with which the Human World is used to refer to the place where the humans live.

The problem is that with the information we know it doesn't make any sense for it to be just the planet.

For one we know that the Human World is almost always refered to has the realm or dimension that only Humans live in not simply the planet which exist in that realm or dimension this is why Human Realm is synonymous with Human World.

We also know the Human World was born from the Demon World which is described as "Unending Darkness" during the "Primordial Existance" I.E the beginning of time these are not the descriptions of a planet but the birth of existance itself from the Demon World

And because the Human World was born from the Demon World itself it cannot be refering to just the planet the Demon World has its own space time its own physics its a seperate reality.

Let me ask you if the Human World is born from "Unending Darkness" during the "Primordial Existance" how does a planet come out of that? The Demon World isnt a bigger planet that split to a smaller planet or something its a seperate realm of existance itself.


They shouldnt need interstelar travel to be Universal SMT doesnt for the most part but the feats are still Universal due to the descriptions of events and the size of the scale thats happening.

What I ment was is that Dante specifically mentions that the Mirror World (An exact replica of the Human World) has a Star that the planet orbits and that the light is returning to it (Showing some physics are reverse) and also showing that the scale of the Mirror World as a dimension is far higher than just the planet.

 

[SaberLily015]

Also this isnt the first time Mundus has done this as Devil May Cry lore states that there is a Heaven in its universe and that Mundus has most likely sealed it off (Though Sparda attempted to stop him)

• Reference to Angels and Heaven*

Devil May Cry 3 Code 2: "Vergil". p.14.

Arkham, "To me, he looks like an angel."

Vergil, "You'd be wrong."

Arkham, "Semantics. Were they not once one and the same?"

Devil May Cry 3 Code 2: "Vergil". p.16. Arkham, "A demon perhaps... but he has retained his angelic beauty, don't you agree?"

'Devil May Cry 4, Key Item File — Wing Talisman: "A talisman made of crystallized angel wing, it can stimulate a divine response in specific equipment."

• Reference to Mundus Separating it from the Human World*

Devil May Cry: "There's a word left by a notable prophet when he visited this castle. It states, "Pluto shall come on the promised date and separate heaven and earth. One with black wings of treachery shall come and stand in Pluto's way.""

 

[ThePerpetual]

I believe you may have missed my point. The point here is that it is more consistently used in one manner, not always so, as is evident by the sources available to me. It's been pointed out here that, though sometimes it can refer to the universe, it is first and foremost used to describe Earth.

It should also be pointed out that simply because the Demon World is endless, doesn't mean that something borne from it is. Alternatively, if it is referring to a whole universe, it again simply could have been referring to the Human World as such in that specific context.

And how can the Mirror World be an exact replica of the human world if the physics are, as you pointed out, all wonky over there? I'm pretty sure that the Human World, regardless of what you're describing when you mention it, does not work that way.

Even disregarding all of this, Mundus still created that pocket dimension as discussed earlier. There's still that.

At any rate, this thread is getting way too long and my CPU is having a hard time handling it. If we could kindly continue this discussion in a new thread that'd be great.

 

[SaberLily015]

Aight ill make a new thread this one can be closed

 

[ThePerpetual]

Can you link to it here in the comments?

 

[Sora'sOther]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/267837

 

[ThePerpetual]

Aight, thanks.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will lock this thread then. SpecN, I would appreciate if you continue contributing to the second thread.