Majin Dante,Mundus and Sparda Upgrades

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

As far as speed goes... hmm. Not entirely sure where to go with that, to be honest.
Also, again, do we have proof that Mundus created this pocket dimension on the spot? Or did he just take Dante to some place in the Demon World or, alternatively, just space? You point out that Dante normally needs space-time manipulation to travel through the demon realm, yet that was in Devil May Cry 3, which A: is in-verse chronologically before Devil May Cry 1, in which Dante fights Mundus, and B: is in-real life after Devil May Cry 1, during which time, IIRC, different people were involved in its production and development as a series. Things easily could've changed in between then and now, so to speak, meaning its not impossible that Mundus transporting them to some other place in the Demon World doesn't seem like an impossibility.

Though, also to be fair, hasn't he reacted to light and lasers and such with some amount of frequency? If so, would that fall under the not natural light/aim-dodging category, or no? Would that actually change his speed at all?

I think I already have the evidence listed here saying that what Mundus created was in fact on the spot and not some sort of teleportation.

It was due to Mundus not appearing in his avatar state (three red eyes) when he took Dante within the dimension. Mundus appears to be unable to travel throughout different dimensions of the demon world without his physical body and would need to therefore appear in his avatar like form.

If Mundus took Dante to a dimension and showed his avatar form then I would agree with you in saying that Mundus transported Dante to somewhere within the Demon World.

Also not really sure what to think of the light dodging feats. But I think most of them are not really legit to be honest.

 

[A6colute]

Well, I don't see where there Universe feat. Separate Light from Darkness... Well, it's only a religious metaphor. Where said that he divided Universe into 2 parts? Or merged those parts into one?

P.S. I'm don't know this franchise. So...

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Well, I don't see where there Universe feat. Separate Light from Darkness... Well, it's only a religious metaphor. Where said that he divided Universe into 2 parts? Or merged those parts into one?
P.S. I'm don't know this franchise. So...

The universe feat was Mundus merging both Human and Demon worlds together. And its Universal + because he has merged two space time continuums together.

Light is just a alternate way of saying Human World. Darkness is an alternate way of saying Demon world.

This quote "Why not reunite what was one?" tells us that Mundus merged them together.

And Sparda having to seperate the demon world again shows us that he had succesfully done it.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

both sides have good points

i am undecided in this one as of now

 

[A6colute]

because he has merged two space time continuums together.

Space-time continuum can be even room-size...

 

[Alakabamm]

Not sure I can agree with the universe level thing. The light and darkness metaphor make it hard to determine what he really means by "merging" and we also don't know the mechanics of such a thing. I think the most that can be extracted from that is 2x planet level because it says Demon World = Earth based on the human world comment.

The scene from the video does in fact look like a minimum of multi-solar system creation so I suppose that is fair.

Hence, we could put him down as "planet level+, possibly multi solar system level" with the "possibly" removed if necessary.

 

[Lina_Shields]

because he has merged two space time continuums together.Space-time continuum can be even room-size...

In this case, along with Mundus' space creation (this automatically places him at least MSS level), I would think a space-time continuum would be referring to an entire universe here.

 

[A6colute]

a space-time continuum would mean an entire universe in this case.

Proof? Where the word "Universe"?

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that this issue seems too uncertain to say for sure. Alakabamm's suggestion of "Unknown. At least Planet level. Possibly Multi-Solar System level" might be the best solution.

 

[LordAizenSama]

^I can agree to that

 

[Alakabamm]

Yea, you can only see a bunch of stars. That's MSS at best from what we can see (which is what we can use)

 

[Kingrandy7]

I would say MSS forsure because the feat is pretty clear cut

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

because he has merged two space time continuums together.
Space-time continuum can be even room-size...

The Demon World is constantly being described as something which is Universal in length perhaps even bigger due to how many different dimensions are present within it and so on.

The Human World's size is said to be a line when compared with the Demon World's so there is our difference. However it could still mean that the Human World is still universal. Because the physical laws that both worlds follow are extremely different. And how many dimensions the Demon World has compared with the Human World.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I don't think that we know if it was an optical illusion.

 

[Alakabamm]

Gonna have to post other stuff besides that scan because it doesn't say "universe" and says "world" (which could mean Earth) instead.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Gonna have to post other stuff besides that scan because it doesn't say "universe" and says "world" (which could mean Earth) instead.

Check the first scan I posted above.

It describes this "World" as being an endless darkness. Container of chaos.

And as explained earlier you woule need to bend space/time to even be able to access parts of the Demon World.

 

[Kingrandy7]

I forgot about that whole world/earth thing. if we agree that Mundus merged them or that sparda split them then Planet lvl should be a thing or no ?

 

[Alakabamm]

Well, he's definitely at least planet level.

The darkness metaphor is kind of convincing but I need to look back at DMC for a sec.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Fun fact.

Mundus name in Latin means "Imagined Universe"

Hmmmmmm??/

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Nomenclature isn't always applicable to fiction and hence is poor evidence.

 

[Reppuzan]

Fun fact.
Mundus name in Latin means "Imagined Universe"

Hmmmmmm??/

Actually it just means World or Universe. It can also refer to mankind, ornaments, decorations, and a woman's toiletry and dresses.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Nomenclature isn't always applicable to fiction and hence is poor evidence.

Oh yeah of course its poor evidence. It was just something I felt was interesting.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Merging the demon world and human world probably was a casual feat. Solar system level mundus makes sense going by the final battle os DMC1.

 

[Alakabamm]

It would be multi solar system because we can see multiple stars

 

[Promestein]

I think, for now, I agree with the suggestion of "Unknown. At least Planet level. Possibly Multi-Solar System level". For now, the specifics are too uncertain for me to warrant higher ratings.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Shouldn't be at least multi-planet level?

 

[KamiYasha]

It would be multi solar system because we can see multiple stars

I agree with this.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Okay let me show you the feats again and current arguments..













Alright so basically The World was born from Darkness. The very first thing we learn from this is that The Demon World was the very first thing to be created. It's size is atleast that of a universe due to the second scan saying this " Endless darkness. A container of chaos" And perhaps its even bigger due to the crap ton of realms+dimensions that reside within the Demon World itself. A example of this is how each time you enter the Demon World in every game the design is always different. Far to many dimensions and such. You even need to bend space/time to enter them.

The second scan tells us that even within this void of darkness there was a line of light which was present within. We then come to learn that this light is our world. The Human World. And that after a set amount of time it just happned to seperate away from the Demon World and had its own space/time continuum. Now the size of the Human World is smaller than than that of the Demon World as shown in the second scan. But now what is small compared to the Demon World? A universe which is able to house a shit ton of realms and dimensions within it possibly making it much bigger than we think? And when you factor in that The Human world is just a representation of our universe then the size difference begins to make sense. Even the physical laws in the demon world are odd and bizzare. Such as inverted gravity and so on. And with the Demon World being a Universe I believe that in the scale of things "World" can also mean Universe too.

Mundus then does his merging thing ma bob and succesfully manages to merge the two together. Making them one again. The result of this is horrific with the demons running amuk and killing innocent humans until Sparda step in, kicks everyones ass and then manages to seperate the Demon World again. Restoring peace back to us.

Another thing to take note of is the Genesis inspired text of a shinning glimmer of light which later becomes to expand and becomes a Universe which manages to house Humans and so on.

There is far too much showing this feat to be Universal+

tldr : Worlds are not just Earths,Demon World is significantly bigger to Human World due to realms+dimensions and all but it does not just class Human World as Earth from that basis alone.

 

[Alakabamm]

The problem with your logic is that the "light" was never proven to be a universe, you're just speculating it is based on the supposed size of the demon realm as an endless universe. However, for all we know, it could be just a planet itself and Mundus may just be merging earth with a small fraction of the demon realm. Hence, as I said before, at least planet level but it can hardly be proven to be better than that.

The other feat - which involves the creation of a few solar systems - is a lot better on its low end so you should probably stick to that and use the "endless darkness" thing as a piece of qualifying information.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Personally, based on what we know, I believe Ant's suggestion seems very reasonable.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Ant's and Alakabamm's suggestions are okay for me...

 

[Yojimbo1989]

I think at least planet level, possibly MSS level is a good start until we get more data, maybe from Capcom. On the nature of the demon world, whether it is a planet or a whole spacetime dimension

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

The problem with your logic is that the "light" was never proven to be a universe, you're just speculating it is based on the supposed size of the demon realm as an endless universe. However, for all we know, it could be just a planet itself and Mundus may just be merging earth with a small fraction of the demon realm. Hence, as I said before, at least planet level but it can hardly be proven to be better than that.
The other feat - which involves the creation of a few solar systems - is a lot better on its low end so you should probably stick to that and use the "endless darkness" thing as a piece of qualifying information.

So you're saying that the Human World only consists of the Earth and thats it?

There have been plenty of times within the DMC games that there have been showings of the Moon,Sun and even stars scattered around the sky during gameplay/cutscenes that take place within the Human World. If the Human World was just Earth surrounded by a black void and nothing else I would agree.

But when these are shown in the Human World it leads to believe that with the existance of stars,sun and moon then the Human World of it being a Universe especially ours are not far fetched at all.

 

[Yojimbo1989]

The problem with your logic is that the "light" was never proven to be a universe, you're just speculating it is based on the supposed size of the demon realm as an endless universe. However, for all we know, it could be just a planet itself and Mundus may just be merging earth with a small fraction of the demon realm. Hence, as I said before, at least planet level but it can hardly be proven to be better than that.
The other feat - which involves the creation of a few solar systems - is a lot better on its low end so you should probably stick to that and use the "endless darkness" thing as a piece of qualifying information.

So you're saying that the Human World only consists of the Earth and thats it?
There have been plenty of times within the DMC games that there have been showings of the Moon,Sun and even stars scattered around the sky during gameplay/cutscenes that take place within the Human World. If the Human World was just Earth surrounded by a black void and nothing else I would agree.

But when these are shown in the Human World it leads to believe that with the existance of stars,sun and moon then the existance of it being a Universe are not far fetched at all.

That's the problem, the human wrold could refer to Earth, but it could refer to the universe itself. Unfortunately, without word from Capcom, there's no way of telling for sure

 

[Alakabamm]

It's not that I don't think that the DMC world has a universe, but rather that the panels you have posted as evidence say "World" and do not explain what they mean, aside from its size in relation to the "Demon World." Technically, even in DMC, the only human inhabited space is Earth - it is our "world." We can't jump from that to universe without some better, more clear statements.

 

[Kingrandy7]

Has far has the whole universe topic goes. It seems that its established That they are their own space-times and that the space time of the demon world is infinite because of it saying the demon world being endless darkness. The unknown factor so far is how big the space time of the human world is or what it consist of

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

We are specifically told that the Demon World was made first. The one with all the crazy realms etc.

Then we see Light (Human World) being developed within the Demon World and then they just seperate from Each other.

If the Human World was exlusively Earth then it would just be a void with nothing around it. But there are stars and moons surrounding it. Thats how we can tell for sure if the Human World is truly a universe or not.

The Human World is not only the Earth... But the Universe.

Everything within the light that seperated from the darkness is considered the Human World. The moment you step onto a Hellgate/Temen Ni Gru you have entered the Demon World.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

It's not that I don't think that the DMC world has a universe, but rather that the panels you have posted as evidence say "World" and do not explain what they mean, aside from its size in relation to the "Demon World." Technically, even in DMC, the only human inhabited space is Earth - it is our "world." We can't jump from that to universe without some better, more clear statements.

Yeah pretty much summed up perfectly here.

However this Human World definately has a space/time around it consisting of stars,moon and the sun and a VERY likely Universe. And Mundus was still able in merging the two together.

Its only called the Human World because its the only Human inhabited planet. Or Human inhabited place in general..

So the mystery of "How big is the Human World's space/time is?" Has been pretty much cleared up tbh.

 

[ThePerpetual]

I know I'm rather late on this one, but I'd prefer it if you didn't quote gigantic walls of text in the future. Makes it sort of difficult to sift through the arguments.

At any rate, it seems we're all in agreement that Dante and the like are at least Planet level, so if there are no objections we should probably implement those upgrades.

 

[Kingrandy7]

I think it should be At least planet level, Possibly Muli solar system or possibly universe level, we have made arguments for both MSS and universe so i dont know which would be added.