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Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread

I've went through the raws for a few scenes. There actually is a few changes, some I'd say good, some I'd say bad?
 
The before time statement doesn't exist (at least not in the zelda echo yap line, there might be a mention elsewhere in raws), inversely, they straight up say the Triforce would erase the world, heavens and whatnot in its entirety to nothing. So nothing actually changes and it gets EE too.

As just one example.
 
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Honestly it's kinda funny that this game retroactively makes what they did in Wind Waker even more of a dick move, like they already flooded the entire world and people drowned as a result (They chose specific people to live on the mountains to survive the flood) but at least you could argue that Ganon's haha funny regen meant they couldn't actually destroy him or whatever. But now this game establishes their power can pull a Zeno. Like congrats, instead of erasing the demon king going around violently killing people because he was mad about being sealed away for a hundred years you just put him in time out and... drowned most of the people he was gonna kill anyway
 
0.082 tons for early fodder.
Dust_Collector said:
Honestly it's kinda funny that this game retroactively makes what they did in Wind Waker even more of a dick move, like they already flooded the entire world and people drowned as a result (They chose specific people to live on the mountains to survive the flood) but at least you could argue that Ganon's haha funny regen meant they couldn't actually destroy him or whatever. But now this game establishes their power can pull a Zeno. Like congrats, instead of erasing the demon king going around violently killing people because he was mad about being sealed away for a hundred years you just put him in time out and... drowned most of the people he was gonna kill anyway
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I feel like they have an established "cant interfere much" rule. Doubly so given Hylia's whole premise and the whole Triforce can't be used by Gods.
The GG's dont even seem good, more so lawful neutral, they yap about balance a lot, Ganon got the ToP in TP due to said balance and wacky stuff instead of him just getting off'd.
Them doing what they did in WW feels more like "well shit, no hero to come beat Ganon and thus keep the balance, but we can't just meme him as that'd be imbalanced, so uhm.... Let's kill a bunch of dudes but also get him to **** off, would be about the same as if Link showed up".

Null just seems to be a step to far, because like, Ganon never wanted to destroy everything, Null on the other doesn't even want things to be imbalanced or be cylical, he just doesn't want things, at all.
 
Chariot190 said:
0.082 tons for early fodder.
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neat

Chariot190 said:
I feel like they have an established "cant interfere much" rule. Doubly so given Hylia's whole premise and the whole Triforce can't be used by Gods.
The GG's dont even seem good, more so lawful neutral, they yap about balance a lot, Ganon got the ToP in TP due to said balance and wacky stuff instead of him just getting off'd.
Them doing what they did in WW feels more like "well shit, no hero to come beat Ganon and thus keep the balance, but we can't just meme him as that'd be imbalanced, so uhm.... Let's kill a bunch of dudes but also get him to **** off, would be about the same as if Link showed up".

Null just seems to be a step to far, because like, Ganon never wanted to destroy everything, Null on the other doesn't even want things to be imbalanced or be cylical, he just doesn't want things, at all.
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Yeah I suppose so, they even intentionally made the Triforce sentient yet incapable of judging what is good and evil and so forced to grant any wish no matter how bad it might be.
 
Chariot190 said:
I wouldnt scale anything pre temple 1 to that. Those I'd scale to earlty Zelda tho who's like 16mj. So higher end 9-B.
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I'm glad we have a former Calc Group here. The more scaling we do, the more upscaling we can do.

Even though stuff like Lizalfos Lv. 3 is still oneshotted by the first boss, it can also make him fall apart in one attack too.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
It just occurred to me. We'll need Keys for some monster profiles, like the monsters with Levels that can oneshot their lower forms or no-sell their attacks.
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We'll just do keys based on what Zelda can have at certain points I'd assume.
Tbh if it was me, I'd do start of game (pre sword/temple 1) so just a few fuckass fodder stuff and base stats, then the next key would just be everything before the very end of the game so before Lost Woods, and then final key with ToW. We could in theory do a key between 1 and 2 for pre Hyrule Castle, but really that'd just be the same as the key before the end of the game minus like 3 or so summons like Lynel and clouds, statwise they would be super close so kind of redundant.

We don't need a key for everything at every point, especially given how some of this is open ended much like TOTK, which makes actually figuring out when she has stuff nigh impossible. Key 2 would just have everything, we can just do "varies with Echoes" in stats as well and with a note, and in the technique section, explaining what each echo is, just add a link to what they scale to, alternatively, we can make a note kinda like Baoh or Kira, and list the Calc Value, and then which summon scales to it, kind of like, just throwing out values, this aint accurate

50 Tons of TNT: Darknut Lv. 3, Lynel, Lizalfos Lv. 3, ----

0.35 Tons of TNT: Bombfish, Boarblin, Peahat, ----

0.01 Tons of TNT: Guay, Sword Moblin Lv. 1, ----

0.003 Tons of TNT: Zols, Keese, Angler, -----

There's a lot of ways to work around this without omega inflating the actual AP section and what not. I'll have to see what the code looks in a sandbox, whatever looks better ig.
 
Chariot190 said:
We'll just do keys based on what Zelda can have at certain points I'd assume.
Tbh if it was me, I'd do start of game (pre sword/temple 1) so just a few fuckass fodder stuff and base stats, then the next key would just be everything before the very end of the game so before Lost Woods, and then final key with ToW. We could in theory do a key between 1 and 2 for pre Hyrule Castle, but really that'd just be the same as the key before the end of the game minus like 3 or so summons like Lynel and clouds, statwise they would be super close so kind of redundant.

We don't need a key for everything at every point, especially given how some of this is open ended much like TOTK, which makes actually figuring out when she has stuff nigh impossible. Key 2 would just have everything, we can just do "varies with Echoes" in stats as well and with a note, and in the technique section, explaining what each echo is, just add a link to what they scale to, alternatively, we can make a note kinda like Baoh or Kira, and list the Calc Value, and then which summon scales to it, kind of like, just throwing out values, this aint accurate

50 Tons of TNT: Darknut Lv. 3, Lynel, Lizalfos Lv. 3, ----

0.35 Tons of TNT: Bombfish, Boarblin, Peahat, ----

0.01 Tons of TNT: Guay, Sword Moblin Lv. 1, ----

0.003 Tons of TNT: Zols, Keese, Angler, -----

There's a lot of ways to work around this without omega inflating the actual AP section and what not. I'll have to see what the code looks in a sandbox, whatever looks better ig.
Click to expand...
I said monster profiles, not monster ratings on Zelda's profile.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
I said monster profiles, not monster ratings on Zelda's profile.
Click to expand...
Why would we make profiles for the goons? i mean I guess you could for a few but thy'd be extremely barebones, but at that point, what are you even asking? Obviously you'd just rate them to what Zelda's durability scales to based on what she encounters them, or what they can do if it's a point where they blatantly no longer scale like end game and damage is just because video game.
 
Chariot190 said:
Why would we make profiles for the goons? i mean I guess you could for a few but thy'd be extremely barebones, but at that point, what are you even asking? Obviously you'd just rate them to what Zelda's durability scales to based on what she encounters them, or what they can do if it's a point where they blatantly no longer scale like end game and damage is just because video game.
Click to expand...
Kid named Gerudo profile:
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Kid named Gerudo profile:
Click to expand...
Don't we already have that? Like a species profile?

In EoW they scale to the 0.086 feat. Well, they downscale, by a lot probably, but they can still kill fodder in that area meaning they aren't magnitudes weaker, so "at most" that value.

Also I wouldnt call a gerudo a monster profile.
 
Chariot190 said:
Don't we already have that? Like a species profile?

In EoW they scale to the 0.086 feat. Well, they downscale, by a lot probably, but they can still kill fodder in that area meaning they aren't magnitudes weaker, so "at most" that value.

Also I wouldnt call a gerudo a monster profile.
Click to expand...
My point is that LoZ doesn't have much of a requirement for profiles. Obviously Gerudos are hot as **** and I wish there were more of them and that Urbosa took me in my sleep, but they don't have anything in terms of raw feats that the monsters don't.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
My point is that LoZ doesn't have much of a requirement for profiles.
Click to expand...
Man, you realize we're gonna be deleting 90% of the profiles because of how dogass they be right?
And by that I mean existing profiles.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Obviously Gerudos are hot as **** and I wish there were more of them and that Urbosa took me in my sleep, but they don't have anything in terms of raw feats that the monsters don't.
Click to expand...
0-19.gif
 
Chariot190 said:
Man, you realize we're gonna be deleting 90% of the profiles because of how dogass they be right?
And by that I mean existing profiles.
Click to expand...
I don't want any profiles gone. Well, there is Light Force. But I like the idea that anyone can stumble across a great niche character and make a profile on it for our verse. It's part of VSBW's appeal.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
I don't want any profiles gone. Well, there is Light Force. But I like the idea that anyone can stumble across a great niche character and make a profile on it for our verse. It's part of VSBW's appeal.
Click to expand...
VSBW also has a quality standard, it's literally why we have mods that delete profiles.
95% of Zelda profiles don't pass it unfortunately. Light Force is bad yes, there's a bunch of Zelda profiles just as bad though. They need to be completely overhauled, or deleted.

But they so ass that it's basically the same thing. A redo wouldn't retain a thing from the original, because there's nothing to retain.

Our goal is to index and index right, making niche profiles isn't the goal, you can do so obviously, but it has to be good too. Profile for profile sake isn't good.

Of course I'm not saying we can't have a Dodongo profile or something, I'm saying what we have right now has to go. Redoing it is fine, I might even redo a few myself.
 
Chariot190 said:
VSBW also has a quality standard, it's literally why we have mods that delete profiles.
95% of Zelda profiles don't pass it unfortunately. Light Force is bad yes, there's a bunch of Zelda profiles just as bad though. They need to be completely overhauled, or deleted.

But they so ass that it's basically the same thing. A redo wouldn't retain a thing from the original, because there's nothing to retain.

Our goal is to index and index right, making niche profiles isn't the goal, you can do so obviously, but it has to be good too. Profile for profile sake isn't good.

Of course I'm not saying we can't have a Dodongo profile or something, I'm saying what we have right now has to go. Redoing it is fine, I might even redo a few myself.
Click to expand...
A newbie won't be making any main profiles of the verse.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
A newbie won't be making any main profiles of the verse.
Click to expand...
A newbie shouldn't be making any profiles without running it by dudes. If a newbie also just so happened to put in a lot of effort into a main profile, we'd keep it.

Who does it doesn't matter, what matters is that it passes quality standards. Zelda and Metroid in particular have some of the worst profiles on site, it's already been discussed, unless you suddenly go fix a bunch, a handful will be deleted come time because they aren't high enough quality (which is to say a few lines of text with next to no scans aint it dude).

What are you even arguing? You can make goon profiles if you want, I'm just saying make sure they like, are good enough quality as to avoid the fate a chunk of the profiles we got at the moment are going to have, that being deletion.
 
Chariot190 said:
A newbie shouldn't be making any profiles without running it by dudes. If a newbie also just so happened to put in a lot of effort into a main profile, we'd keep it.

Who does it doesn't matter, what matters is that it passes quality standards. Zelda and Metroid in particular have some of the worst profiles on site, it's already been discussed, unless you suddenly go fix a bunch, a handful will be deleted come time because they aren't high enough quality (which is to say a few lines of text with next to no scans aint it dude).

What are you even arguing? You can make goon profiles if you want, I'm just saying make sure they like, are good enough quality as to avoid the fate a chunk of the profiles we got at the moment are going to have, that being deletion.
Click to expand...
You seem against the creation of "goon profiles".
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
Don't remember saying that makes it low quality.
Click to expand...
Did you like, forget what we were talking about?
Barebone profiles, how we have a bunch of ass profiles, and then you go "well my point is we dont have much of a requirement for zelda" as i talk about standards, deletion and the like and why if you gonna make redundant goon profiles, make sure they aren't barebones.

That sort of reply is the literal last thing you say. Adding on to "newbies won't be making main profiles", as if to justify why goon profiles can be made isn't good either because at that point, how would you know if they'd be low quality, it isn't even you making them?

I said at the start I guess you could make goon profiles as long as they ain't ass like what we have, you've just been kind of doubling down on weird justifications bordering on handwaving shoddy quality.

I legit don't get you sometimes dude.
 
Chariot190 said:
Did you like, forget what we were talking about?
Barebone profiles, how we have a bunch of ass profiles, and then you go "well my point is we dont have much of a requirement for zelda" as i talk about standards, deletion and the like and why if you gonna make redundant goon profiles, make sure they aren't barebones.

That sort of reply is the literal last thing you say. Adding on to "newbies won't be making main profiles", as if to justify why goon profiles can be made isn't good either because at that point, how would you know if they'd be low quality, it isn't even you making them?

I said at the start I guess you could make goon profiles as long as they ain't ass like what we have, you've just been kind of doubling down on weird justifications bordering on handwaving shoddy quality.

I legit don't get you sometimes dude.
Click to expand...
"There's not much stuff on this profile."

"Damn I can't believe it's so low quality smh"
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
"There's not much stuff on this profile."

"Damn I can't believe it's so low quality smh"
Click to expand...
Yeah pretty much. No scans, gifs, any actual explanations of anything, etc. Is what I would call low quality.
It's just made 50x worse when dealing with a dude that has like nothing, as what little they do have, isn't even indexed in full.

Why make a profile with the intent to have it be barebones? Just to make one? That isn't very good.
The worst part is, they don't have to be and in some cases shouldn't be, take a Zol profile, the most dogass fodder goon in Zelda, even that could be pretty fleshed out, if done properly, gathering and compiling lore for it, all its showings, scalings, what it interacts with whether it be fire or cold to showcases its res, tidbits from websites and guidebooks, etc, because like, Zol isn't just from EoW, it's in a bunch of games, as such a Zol profile would need to factor in that too.
Buuut.... Something tells me if someone were to make a Zol profile, they wouldn't do that, they'd just list what it scales to for stats, call it sticky blob maybe give it adhesive manip, and publish it.

Like can you imagine a more not ass enemy like a ReDead profile, but it only uses stuff from EoW instead of also OOT, WW and more? It might seem barebones, because it WOULD be, it wouldn't have even 10% of what it should have.

As said, I'm not against goon profiles, but they gotta be good, none of that Light Force or King Dodongo shit we got already.
 
Chariot190 said:
Yeah pretty much. No scans, gifs, any actual explanations of anything, etc. Is what I would call low quality.
It's just made 50x worse when dealing with a dude that has like nothing, as what little they do have, isn't even indexed in full.

Why make a profile with the intent to have it be barebones? Just to make one? That isn't very good.
The worst part is, they don't have to be and in some cases shouldn't be, take a Zol profile, the most dogass fodder goon in Zelda, even that could be pretty fleshed out, if done properly, gathering and compiling lore for it, all its showings, scalings, what it interacts with whether it be fire or cold to showcases its res, tidbits from websites and guidebooks, etc, because like, Zol isn't just from EoW, it's in a bunch of games, as such a Zol profile would need to factor in that too.
Buuut.... Something tells me if someone were to make a Zol profile, they wouldn't do that, they'd just list what it scales to for stats, call it sticky blob maybe give it adhesive manip, and publish it.

Like can you imagine a more not ass enemy like a ReDead profile, but it only uses stuff from EoW instead of also OOT, WW and more? It might seem barebones, because it WOULD be, it wouldn't have even 10% of what it should have.

As said, I'm not against goon profiles, but they gotta be good, none of that Light Force or King Dodongo shit we got already.
Click to expand...
I never said they wouldn't be indexed in full either.
 
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
I never said they wouldn't be indexed in full either.
Click to expand...
You kind of did when I explain the problem and you reply with stuff like we have dog requirements and newbies would be making stuff like that, again, not what you reply with. Like come on man let's not backpedal.

Either way you get the point, you wanna make goon profiles, ok, kind of reduntant imo as every goon in EoW would be indexed on Zelda's but sure go ahead, just make sre if you do it, you do it in full, none of that shit we have on most zelda profiles.
 
Chariot190 said:
You kind of did when I explain the problem and you reply with stuff like we have dog requirements and newbies would be making stuff like that, again, not what you reply with. Like come on man let's not backpedal.

Either way you get the point, you wanna make goon profiles, ok, kind of reduntant imo as every goon in EoW would be indexed on Zelda's but sure go ahead, just make sre if you do it, you do it in full, none of that shit we have on most zelda profiles.
Click to expand...
...Or it just means there's not a lot to write about.

You've heavily implied that you won't be saying much about each character.
 
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