Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread

[Dust_Collector]

Not a single mf cares about the scaling if it ain't for Zelda huh

 

[Chariot190]

Me when I literally just said multiple fuckass goons have like an 8-B and 8-C feat

 

[Dalesean027]

Bro is just here to yap and complain about nonexistent problems he is avtually Tylo 2.0

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Fine, I'll just do it all my damn self

 

[Dust_Collector]

Do what yourself? Bro what are you on about?

 

[Chariot190]

Me when I literally already have a few calcs done and have about 35 clips but eh guess not.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Me when I literally already have a few calcs done and have ab out 35 clips but eh guess not.

It's not that deep dude, I'm just grumpy in general, you don't have to take offense at everything I say

 

[Chariot190]

It's not that deep dude, I'm just grumpy in general, you don't have to take offense at everything I say

Well, don't be. Why come to the funny zelda thread to be grumpy?

I'm just shocked, what are you yapping about? What is even the issue? Like I ACTUALLY don't know what you're bitching about, "ill do it myself" "nobody gives a shit if it aint zelda", like man what is actually the problem? Neither is even true so what are you going off on?
Is it because people didn't comment on your Ganon yap? Well, yeah, not everyone is done the game dude.

 

[Imaginym]

Not a single mf cares about the scaling if it ain't for Zelda huh

You just said that after someone expressing interest in a feat for a fodder mook.
Did you misspeak?

Fine, I'll just do it all my damn self

You aren't on your own.
We're there to help. We may not agree, but I like to think we're friends under our common interest, or that we can be.

It's not that deep dude, I'm just grumpy in general, you don't have to take offense at everything I say

Would you like to talk about it, perhaps here or on my Forum Profile? Some find it cathartic to express what's dragging them down, & if I can help a friend in thar way, I appreciate the opportunity to make things better for someone else.

Well, don't be. Why come to the funny zelda thread to be grumpy?

I share your stance, sort of. I don't like for others to be upset.
Heck, even when it's fictional. I know they're not real, but when I see someone get upset, I feel bad for them.
If a dog in a cartoon gets hurt, I get like Drampa & become angry enough to want to find the bully's house & burn it to the ground. Even though it isn't real & no animals were harmed in the making of most fiction, I know that.

But frustrating as it may be, emotions are infamously difficult to control. It is doable, but it often isn't sufficient to just tell someone to feel or act better.
I ain't saying Sean has depression, truly, because IIRC, Sean is usually a nice, kind, personable & helpful user who, IMHO, doesn't generally seem depressed.
But sometimes, people have to live with emotions that don't go away for a long time, even though we want them to leave us to ourselves sooner rather than later.

But we all have our highs & lows, some longer than others. Sometimes they go away on their own, sometimes we get through it with others.

I'm just shocked, what are you yapping about? What is even the issue? Like I ACTUALLY don't know what you're bitching about, "ill do it myself" "nobody gives a shit if it aint zelda", like man what is actually the problem? Neither is even true so what are you going off on?
Is it because people didn't comment on your Ganon yap? Well, yeah, not everyone is done the game dude.

I have similar curiousities, although I'm not sure I'd have used the same wordings. No offense meant, all.

 

[Dust_Collector]

What tier are we putting stamp guy at? He's gotta be at least 2-A right?

 

[Chariot190]

What tier are we putting stamp guy at? He's gotta be at least 2-A right?

Feels like a Tingle Rival. So low 1-C according to you.

 

[Dust_Collector]

ehhh, I'd consider him a tingle rival in the same vein tien is a goku rival. He could likely hang with base tingle but low 1-C tingle forms? dunno about that

 

[Chariot190]

ehhh, I'd consider him a tingle rival in the same vein tien is a goku rival. He could likely hang with base tingle but low 1-C tingle forms? dunno about that

Why are we assuming Tingle's higher forms cap at low 1-C.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I'm talking about his weaker higher forms he uses for sandbagging against certain opponents, his strongest forms are obviously tier 0 bare minium.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm talking about his weaker higher forms he uses for sandbagging against certain opponents, his strongest forms are obviously tier 0 bare minium.

Yeah but like, based on the Goku Tien logic, Tingle's jobbing form would be Low 1-C, in which Stamp scales to that one.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Unironically though, you could make a great case for 2-C endgame Hyrule Warriors characters, which would include Tingle

 

[Dust_Collector]

Finally got to the real big boy spoilers, This is biggest addition to the golden goddesses lore since their introduction in ALTTP

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Finally got to the real big boy spoilers, This is biggest addition to the golden goddesses lore since their introduction in ALTTP

Wait, really? Dang, that's cool. What's the lore? I won't be able to play the game or a while, so I don't mind the spoilers.

 

[Emerald]

Finally got to the real big boy spoilers, This is biggest addition to the golden goddesses lore since their introduction in ALTTP

of what?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Wait, really? Dang, that's cool. What's the lore? I won't be able to play the game or a while, so I don't mind the spoilers.

of what?

For anyone else who isn't this far yet and doesn't wanna know obviously do not open:

Spoiler

The goddesses themselves reveal the reason they created everything, turns out all the times the games went the world / universe was in chaos before the goddesses showed up? Yeah that "chaos" was actually the still world, a void of nothing before creation. Originally a few lifeforms did crop up without the goddesses within the void but a being named Null kept consuming everything, so to stop this the goddesses created the land and skies specifically to imprison Null

 

[Emerald]

For anyone else who isn't this far yet and doesn't wanna know obviously do not open:

Spoiler

The goddesses themselves reveal the reason they created everything, turns out all the times the games went the world / universe was in chaos before the goddesses showed up? Yeah that "chaos" was actually the still world, a void of nothing before creation. Originally a few lifeforms did crop up without the goddesses within the void but a being named Null kept consuming everything, so to stop this the goddesses created the land and skies specifically to imprison Null

Where is this info from? Im really curious now

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

For anyone else who isn't this far yet and doesn't wanna know obviously do not open:

Spoiler

The goddesses themselves reveal the reason they created everything, turns out all the times the games went the world / universe was in chaos before the goddesses showed up? Yeah that "chaos" was actually the still world, a void of nothing before creation. Originally a few lifeforms did crop up without the goddesses within the void but a being named Null kept consuming everything, so to stop this the goddesses created the land and skies specifically to imprison Null

Wow, that's pretty huge new lore. Wait, that might be the place Demise came from, right?

 

[Dust_Collector]

the tornando and bed combo oh my god

 

[Chariot190]

Beat it.
Will start calc blogs. A handful of feats worth noting, might have a 7-C one, but def got some 8-A ones. Also some bit feats between 9-A, 8-C and even two 8-B ones. Also funny 9-B shit for start of game.

Speedwise we got 3 routes, but top would be rel.

As an aside, whatever we decide to rate the final boss, gets slapped on to everyone else worth a damn assuming it's an upgrade, if not then they just scale which ig makes scaling en game super easy.

They never ******* elaborate WHY Link and Zelda have the fuckton of resistances tho beyond "they're the hero and priestess", so idk if we can scale that to other Links, it isn't due to the Triforce Pieces given that's end game. If it's LITERALLY just "yeah he's the hero **** you", well... The Still World has Petrification (Applies to non-living objects too like lava and clouds), Soul Manip, Memory Manip, Deconstruction, eventual EE. Having this be just a built in thing for the Hero and Priestess would be kind of busted but that also feels like yap so idk

Game good tho, idk if it's my favorite 2D tho but it could be.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Beat it.

Gross.

Will start calc blogs. A handful of feats worth noting, might have a 7-C one, but def got some 8-A ones. Also some bit feats between 9-A, 8-C and even two 8-B ones. Also funny 9-B shit for start of game.

One thing we can both agree on is that your calc contributions cannot be thanked enough.

As an aside, whatever we decide to rate the final boss, gets slapped on to everyone else worth a damn assuming it's an upgrade, if not then they just scale which ig makes scaling en game super easy.

He should upscale madly from a base Beast Ganon tbh.

Game good tho, idk if it's my favorite 2D tho but it could be.

Well ackshually it and Link Between Worlds are 2.5D since they're isometric.

 

[Chariot190]

He should upscale madly from a base Beast Ganon tbh.

That's the problem, what the **** even IS a base beast ganon. That isn't really an established thing.
We absolutely, 110% can't scale them above ToP Ganon because the final boss glazes the **** out of even just the ToP piece as being that good shit, so the Ganon we fight, scales below ToP Ganon, as wacky as that might be, the game makes it super blatant, I guess we could scale them above Human Ganon as the next best thing but at that point I think we have better options to work with?

Ignoring Rift bullshit, and cosmic slop, because idk how we should deal with that, calc it, quantify it, etc. So let's just pretend those don't exist for now.

There's a bunch of tier 8 stuff, some pretty hefty ones too, think maybe a 7-C late game. There's the dumbass frog enemy but it wouldn't get anything, especially because the game flatout says clouds nuh uh. Volvagia and the Yeti boss both have surprisingly high collateral feats, but if the former IS that enemy straight up, especially given how Echoes work and unlike Ganon and Link, has no reason to be ten billion times weaker, we could maybe get Mid-Game OOT scaling going on for mid game Zelda.

End game they just scale to whatever the **** we have OOT/TP Ganon at atm, unless the cosmic slop leads to an upgrade, in which case, they still scale to them because they'd be upgraded.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

We have a Beast Ganon key that doesn't used the Triforce of Power.

 

[Chariot190]

The 6-C one? When does that even happen tho?
I can't remember a time he turned into Beast Ganon without the ToP.
Edit: The Oracle games maybe? But the description yaps about OOT stuff so idk.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

The 6-C one? When does that even happen tho?
I can't remember a time he turned into Beast Ganon without the ToP.
Edit: The Oracle games maybe? But the description yaps about OOT stuff so idk.

The OoT stuff is just from being stronger than Twinrova even without it, not necessarily what he did in OoT.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Beat the game myself and yeah not too sure what to make of the cosmic shit besides the full Triforce probably at the minimum getting boosted to Low 2-C ro 2-C or whatever

 

[Chariot190]

The OoT stuff is just from being stronger than Twinrova even without it, not necessarily what he did in OoT.

Is that even true?

His base key is 8-C, so we obviously don't accept that as the logic. Not to say he's 8-C, he isn't, he should be at least 7-C in base but ya know....
And then we have the fact that post time-skip, he has the ToP, everything after that point is the 5-C key that EoW Ganon can't scale to.

So I'm not sure what the profile means by High 6-C Beast Ganon, but said Beast Ganon doesn't have the ToP. I'd assume it's the Oracle Game, it kind of has to be, that's the only Beast Ganon without the ToP, and Twinrova is in that game, and Ganon IS stronger, but is that Twinrova on par with the OOT Twinrova? I'm not sure.

But I guess at worst Onox and Veran have some dumb feats alongside potential tier 6 oracle feats so it might not matter.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah I think it's meant to be for his beast forms in ALTTP and the Oracles, think it was only added as a key for justify ALTTP Link's scaling since we stopped treating Nando as using the Triforce during the final boss battle like 3 years ago or something.

 

[Dust_Collector]

If nothing else I think it'll be funny to push the Triforce of Power >> Golden Goddesses agenda

Also I decided to check some of the japanese text to make sure NOA weren't pulling a NOA, and yeah based on rough translations Null does indeed seal away the goddesses within the rifts even in the original text. Pretty impressive.

 

[Chariot190]

Null has some smurf hax at least even in his stinky pre-end game form.

Yeah I think it's meant to be for his beast forms in ALTTP and the Oracles, think it was only added as a key for justify ALTTP Link's scaling since we stopped treating Nando as using the Triforce during the final boss battle like 3 years ago or something.

Do we treat Alttp Crenando as not having the Triforce? I was under the impression we treat him as having it, but just like, don't scale Link to it because that's ******* stupid and is retroactively an outlier because just about every game since establishes that as something not just possible for even a ToC Link, let alone a base Link, to ever scale to.

If we treat that as base Ganon tho, we can work with that, AlttP has some feats I was calcing that Ganon would upscale massively from, like the medallions, that would be like, idk depending which end we go with, would be tier 6. I have 3 ends tho for the storm clear tho as mentioned like a month ago.

 

[Chariot190]

Spoiler: Still World Res yap

we REALLY need to figure out the still world shit tho, even just the WHY they arent effected.
depending on why, it scales to every other link and zelda
"theyre zelda and link"
that is like, basically what they say

which is why im like
idk if i slap this on every other incarnation (except Zelda the 2nd ig idk) or go "these incarnations special"
Link is even worst, his excuse is "He's The Hero", ok and?

so is oot, so is tp, so is botw, so is ******* all but WW, except he becomes the hero by mid game, meaning either way
literally, it's a major plot point only zelda and link unaffected, every other thing from hylians, to zoras, gorons, to animals like horses, to even ******* lava and clouds (clouds even have a statement saying theyve been petrified by the still making them tangible). it is only link and zelda who are exempt because "theyre the hero and priestess of legend"
it's obviously some golden goddess blessing bullshit, but unlike TP res like the wolf shit, which is a byproduct of the Triforce Piece, we dont get the actual MECHANICS of this in EoW, so like

does that apply to other links? i mean maybe, but also maybe not?

but it's a hefty package of resistances that like, handwaving this shit isnt doable and going "well it dont matter", we gotta figure it out.
Memory manip, mind manip, petrification, soul manip, deconstruction, EE, also the ability to survive in a void and other stuff, theyd all get res to. Hell maybe even time stop, I gotta look at the raws still.

This needs to be figured out, I'd wager it's the most encompassing thing this game gives if it does apply to others.

i copy pasted this from chat so it's formatted poorly but meh

 

[Dust_Collector]

Do we treat Alttp Crenando as not having the Triforce? I was under the impression we treat him as having it, but just like, don't scale Link to it because that's ******* stupid and is retroactively an outlier because just about every game since establishes that as something not just possible for even a ToC Link, let alone a base Link, to ever scale to.

Yeah I think we treat it being in the other room as him now being empowered or whatever, which I kinda disagree with I always just thought it was a massive outlier for Link to just beat him despite Nando having the complete set of triangles.

Spoiler: Still World Res yap

we REALLY need to figure out the still world shit tho, even just the WHY they arent effected.
depending on why, it scales to every other link and zelda
"theyre zelda and link"
that is like, basically what they say

which is why im like
idk if i slap this on every other incarnation (except Zelda the 2nd ig idk) or go "these incarnations special"
Link is even worst, his excuse is "He's The Hero", ok and?

so is oot, so is tp, so is botw, so is ******* all but WW, except he becomes the hero by mid game, meaning either way
literally, it's a major plot point only zelda and link unaffected, every other thing from hylians, to zoras, gorons, to animals like horses, to even ******* lava and clouds (clouds even have a statement saying theyve been petrified by the still making them tangible). it is only link and zelda who are exempt because "theyre the hero and priestess of legend"
it's obviously some golden goddess blessing bullshit, but unlike TP res like the wolf shit, which is a byproduct of the Triforce Piece, we dont get the actual MECHANICS of this in EoW, so like

does that apply to other links? i mean maybe, but also maybe not?

but it's a hefty package of resistances that like, handwaving this shit isnt doable and going "well it dont matter", we gotta figure it out.
Memory manip, mind manip, petrification, soul manip, deconstruction, EE, also the ability to survive in a void and other stuff, theyd all get res to. Hell maybe even time stop, I gotta look at the raws still.

This needs to be figured out, I'd wager it's the most encompassing thing this game gives if it does apply to others.

i copy pasted this from chat so it's formatted poorly but meh

Zelda could be excused since other versions aren't really a preistess but as you said Link getting the resistances because he's the hero is, very non-specific because every version of him is the hero. There is the specific prophecy for Null wanting the Triforce only for these versions of Link and Zelda to show up and clap him. Personally I'd give the other versions the resistances as a possibly but ehh it's messy

 

[Dust_Collector]

Also in regards to the cosmic level stuff, even if Null and Triforce piece users end up being no higher than our current ratings the complete Triforce and by extension start of downfall timeline Ganon would be tier 2 right? Given that it would've allowed Null to completely revert the world back into the void before creation. Guess the question would be where in tier 2. Like are we only counting this as reverting the Light World back into the void, we including the other realms?

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah I think we treat it being in the other room as him now being empowered or whatever, which I kinda disagree with I always just thought it was a massive outlier for Link to just beat him despite Nando having the complete set of triangles.


Zelda could be excused since other versions aren't really a preistess but as you said Link getting the resistances because he's the hero is, very non-specific because every version of him is the hero. There is the specific prophecy for Null wanting the Triforce only for these versions of Link and Zelda to show up and clap him. Personally I'd give the other versions the resistances as a possibly but ehh it's messy

Worst case we can just go "possibly" ig and the yap. Given how much shit it is tho, I'm not gonna do an imgur album, like with some of the MM and OOT comps, I'll probably make a dedicated yt vid with all the clips and timestamps instead given imgur's 1m policy we can link instead.

Ill need to cross check lore tho and the raws, maybe it's a tad more specific.

Also in regards to the cosmic level stuff, even if Null and Triforce piece users end up being no higher than our current ratings the complete Triforce and by extension start of downfall timeline Ganon would be tier 2 right? Given that it would've allowed Null to completely revert the world back into the void before creation. Guess the question would be where in tier 2. Like are we only counting this as reverting the Light World back into the void, we including the other realms?

The Full Triforce? Yeah it'd be at least low 2-C now. They explicitly even say time didnt exist back then.

Idk if it'd count all other worlds, given the current lore seems to be the other worlds were accident so not exactly intended to trap Null, and the GGs say "this" world when yapping in eng, so singular.

But, japanese would be more specific id think so ill check that later tonight. I need to parse through a lot of raws anyway.

We're looking at at least low 2-C, maybe 2-B depending on if the raws use the proper kanji

 

[Dalesean027]

We're looking at at least low 2-C, maybe 2-B depending on if the raws use the proper kanji

Tylo would be proud they can now fight FF

 

[Chariot190]

Tylo would be proud they can now fight FF

Finally, Zelda whipped out cosmic slop that like doesnt scale to anyone to counter Sephiroth's cosmic slop that doesnt scale to anyone yet.

He was just ahead of his time....