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League of Legends Speed Scaling Problem 2

Apparently we didn't discuss canonicity as much as we needed to. I thought it was as simple as "Gameplay = non-canon" but it seems like there's more going on.

Are trailers which are partially gameplay, and partially lore events depicted using in-game models considered canon for the non-gameplay parts?
 
For the ones that arent just straight gameplay, but have gameplay and lore bits intertwined, like Akali's and Sylas' trailers, the non-gameplay parts are canon yes
 
For Akali scaling to Shen, Weekly has shown me this video (which I've disagreed with for these reasons).

EDIT: I didn't realize that when Shen teleported away, the next shot he was brought to his knees. I'm still not 100% sold on the feat but I don't disagree with it as strongly.
 
I want other people's thoughts on this.

Agnaa said:
Apparently we didn't discuss canonicity as much as we needed to. I thought it was as simple as "Gameplay = non-canon" but it seems like there's more going on.

Are trailers which are partially gameplay, and partially lore events depicted using in-game models considered canon for the non-gameplay parts?
Click to expand...
 
Akali and Shen are peers, so yes this is fine. I agree with Schro, although the light traveling in the Ryze cinematic seems to be superhuman/subsonic so that is plus for consistency on Ryze to MF. Taliyah and Sivir is fine...I think.
 
SinsofMan said:
Akali and Shen are peers, so yes this is fine.
Click to expand...
I disagree with scaling characters' speed just because they're peers. I apply a stricter standard for verses I work on. For example, I've put Meme Oshino and Deishuu Kaiki within human levels of speed, even though they're peers with Yozuru Kagenui and Izuko Gae, who are superhuman and human with subsonic attacks/reactions respectively.
 
@Agnaa Thats fine, but I personally have done the opposite. I have scaled people in UnOrdinary, Tower of God and alot of jrpgs for being peers with eachother.

I am exhausted, so I will take a break. Just pm on discord what your issue is. I saw your screen cap with weekly, but you can also message me it too when I am done.
 
Sivir is barely conscious for most of Bloodline so I'm curious how she's supposed to scale to Taliyah for it.

@Agnaa Scathlocke stated teasers are typically not canon. The Akali video is basically abridged lore.

Akali's bio states Shen let her leave without a fight so I'd take that video with a bit of salt. Her bio also states Kennen is the one who mostly taught her physical abilities while Shen was more philosophy- a philosophy she didn't accept because she wants to kill her enemies.

What would that video even prove? Akali can beat up the master of an order she left if he stands still and lets her?
 
Friendlysociopath said:
@Agnaa Scathlocke stated teasers are typically not canon. The Akali video is basically abridged lore.

Akali's bio states Shen let her leave without a fight so I'd take that video with a bit of salt. Her bio also states Kennen is the one who mostly taught her physical abilities while Shen was more philosophy- a philosophy she didn't accept because she wants to kill her enemies.

What would that video even prove? Akali can beat up the master of an order she left if he stands still and lets her?
Click to expand...
This is very important knowledge, thanks for the input.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Teasers are 100% canon, that is a blatant lie
Click to expand...


Well evidently I in my great untrustworthiness am not fit for a blog so you'll have to supply your own evidence teasers are 100% canon.


That said here I have the Lead Narrative Director stating, "We're not usually beholden to teasers as sources of lore" which means teasers aren't a source of lore aka canon. The fact that Akali's teaser clashes with her written lore supports this since the teaser shows her fighting Shen when the lore states they didn't fight and the same video shows her killing Noxian champions- which didn't happen in the lore coincidentally.


In addition here I have the Lead Narrative Director stating, "It's not canon until it appears in a story or bio" and you have never yet countered that. And here we see her holding to that stance.


"Only Universe and Map content is likely to be canon" is noted here and then here it is stated, "Anything that is not currently on Universe or the Runeterra map is not canon".


Even the new Awaken video released had her saying , "In terms of it being canon—these are definitely scenes and events that take place in the world of Runeterra, in the present time. Have we reached those moments in those characters' arcs yet? No, but we've got lots of stories still to come this year, and next…"


So do tell, exactly, what hard proof you have that teaser trailers are 100% canon? Because I'm sitting pretty far behind reasonable doubt of whether they're canon or just cool to build hype.


Just being published by Riot does not make something canon. Riot publishes the cinematics featuring Summoner's Rift after all and we know that's not canon. "Blantant lie" seems oddly hostile- I thought you hated it when Reigis did that to you? At absolute worst it's a disagreement about canon but you can certainly prove me wrong definitively if I'm indeed 100% wrong and there's no room for doubt.
 
Just waiting for the "nah, im right [insert misinterpretation of a random statement] here. your well built argument, with lots of evidence to support is wrong!"
 
You know what beholden means right? It means theyre not obligated to say whether they are or are not canon, and around here that means they are to be taken as canon until proven otherwise, as none of the teasers contradict anything in the lore and instead build upon and further expand the backstories of the champions in question (Things like Jhin escaping prison to instantly begin attacking people again, Akali's final confrontation with Shen before leaving the Kinkou Order, Sylas' last encounter with Lux before his execution, etc.). Just because you choose to believe they are not canon does not make them any less so.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
You know what beholden means right? It means theyre not obligated to say whether they are or are not canon, and around here that means they are to be taken as canon until proven otherwise, as none of the teasers contradict anything in the lore and instead build upon and further expand the backstories of the champions in question (Things like Jhin escaping prison to instantly begin attacking people again, Akali's final confrontation with Shen before leaving the Kinkou Order, Sylas' last encounter with Lux before his execution, etc.). Just because you choose to believe they are not canon does not make them any less so.
Click to expand...
Is that an actual broad wiki stance?
 
Do we consider game quotes referencing things that aren't mentioned in bios or on Universe as canon? Why/why not?
 
According to our Cano page:


The primary canon is the source material first released (with few possible exceptions), with the other author works being secondary canon.

When different source materials give different versions of the same feat, and by that they contradict each other in the depiction of the feat, the primary canon takes precedence over the secondary canon.

If the feat is correctly depicted over multiple canons any of these can be used to judge the feat. Should different results be reached by judging the feat through multiple canons, the result of the primary canon will have priority.
So unless "secondary canon" stuff contradict "primary canon" stuff, it can be used.
 
Sure but what's considered primary canon, secondary canon, and non-canon varies from verse to verse and can sometimes be unintuitive.

Even if it doesn't contradict the lore, we can't scale characters for fighting in-game.

So, how do knowledgeable League members treat in-game voicelines from characters, referencing events that aren't mentioned in bios or on Universe?
 
Agnaa said:
Do we consider game quotes referencing things that aren't mentioned in bios or on Universe as canon? Why/why not?
Click to expand...
That's more a case-by-case basis. Many champions haven't had their quotes updated since after the Summoner retcon for example and a good chunk of them are references to other franchises or breaking the 4th wall for another. Also some obviously just never meet up- Lux straight-up has a quote about how she and Ezreal haven't met in canon.

Certainly some would be useful as secondary canon yeah.
 
If it's case by case, then what about the quotes of Sion taunting Galio about them having clashed more than a thousand times?
 
Wouldn't voice lines being canon go against some of the quotes from Riot staff that Friendly brought up?

Friendlysociopath said:
In addition here I have the Lead Narrative Director stating, "It's not canon until it appears in a story or bio" and you have never yet countered that. And here we see her holding to that stance.

"Only Universe and Map content is likely to be canon" is noted here and then here it is stated, "Anything that is not currently on Universe or the Runeterra map is not canon".

Just being published by Riot does not make something canon. Riot publishes the cinematics featuring Summoner's Rift after all and we know that's not canon.
Click to expand...
 
@Agnaa I just want to point out that even what Friendly said is self-contradictory, as 'its not canon unless it appears in a story or bio' makes any and all champion lore cinematics and all comics non-canon despite multiple statements that say they are, including the statement of 'only universe and map are canon'
 
But do those contradictions mean that our default assumption is that everything Riot releases is canon?

Isn't it better to wait for explicit confirmations that one type of release (i.e. champion lore cinematics) is canon before we use it, rather then assuming that they're all canon?

Also, aren't cinematics often linked on Universe pages anyway?
 
@Agnaa Almost everything they release is canon, aside from extreme examples such as A Twist of Fate and A New Dawn. That or its always blatantly a canon AU.
 
Sion is barely 6~7 meters tall. Galio canonically dwarfs houses. Also, resurrection is primarily dependent on Magic in LoL, and Galio nullifies/absorbs magic with his presence. Are you really sure that Sion fought him?
 
The rivalry is most likely not physical, tho. Both of them are the "colossus" of their respective nations. Its more like a conflict/rivalry between Demacia and Noxus symbols/ideals and not a full on fight. And, considering the behemoth of a champion that Galio is and that their lore doesn't directly or indirectly adress such rivalry and their physical fights... Eh.

Also, Galio says that a battle between them would be something. He didn't imply that they have fought each other before.
 
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