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Illumina Major Downgrade Part 2

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@DDM You already mentioned that comparison he made, it's not a good one.

"Dimension" and "dimensional" are really no different and it's definition can vary depending on how it's used.

If it contains galaxies then unless one want to assume that it just randomly dead-ends at one or a few galaxies, then that would be a universe. Universes contain a collection of galaxies.
 
Genericstickman said:
Isn't the whole reason why Illumina is the goddess of dreams because she's the creator of the Precious Stone, and that's the thing that actually created Maginaryworld
Click to expand...
She created the Precioustone and Maginaryworld.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
If it contains galaxies then unless one want to assume that it just randomly dead-ends at one or a few galaxies, then that would be a universe. Universes contain a collection of galaxies.
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I have nothing to say on the overall revisions but are you really saying that we can't rate a dimension at 3-C or 3-B if in place of stars, galaxies are shown?
 
She created the Precioustone and Maginaryworld.

it was stated she dreamed it into existence but presumably the precious stone brought it into reality, implying that dreams are pocket dimensional universes
 
I'm going to take care of a few things IRL, but I'm still positive on the downgrades going through for this.
 
If the downgrade goes through I will be making the dream depot downgrade thread, the same reasons being defended are the same reasons that put the dream depot at 2-B, this wikia needs to be unbiased
 
@User Feel free to create any CRT that you feel has substantial evidence behind it. No one's stopping you for from removing double standards, but make sure you are genuinely trying to remove double standards and not just perceiving them because of your own dissatisfaction.
 
It just to remove double standards, I didn't see anything diferent from Marginary World asside the dream of the universe statment, and I already explaneid why it doesn't refer to the dreams being universes. I will only make the thread if the downgrade goes through
 
It's not double standard, it's simply case by case. Future Dream literally has this canon description, Teleport from space station to space station as you marvel at the wonders of the universe in this outer-space race for the stars! It's one small party for man and one giant party for mankind! So Future Dream alone does have a universe statement. And it's not just the description, but playing the actual game there are many galaxies and people in the game also describe the cosmos as being an entire universe. And in Dream Team, there were statements about each Dream World being Infinite in size iirc, which Sonic Shuffle completely lacks. This includes some statement a while back with the existence of a "Bottomless Pit". Not to mention, Super Paper Mario actually has statements of a 2-B structure outside the Dream Depot, meaning the god tiers would be 2-B either way. And I have edited the OP to forbid derailing the thread in talking about Dream Depot or other 2-B ratings shown in the Mario verse. You can talk about those sort of things else where such as on message walls.

Anyway, here it's once again only stated that Maginary World is a universe and not the individual dreams. 4th Dimension Space doesn't really have proof of it being the actual "4th Dimension" by out definition of it. And I agree with AKM Sama that the revision should be over with soon since it's been circular for the past 630 posts roughly. I have also bolded an important note in the OP for this reason.
 
This doesn't say that Future Dream is a universe, tthe woders of the universe just means the stuff that's in it, I could say that a museum has the wondrs of a civilization, it won't mean that the museum is one. We learn about the wonders of the universe in a astrology class, it doesn't mean that the classs is a universe, you can marvel at the wonders of the universe in a 4-A structure

Can you link them? I played Dream Team and Super Paper Mario and I don't renember.
 
Oh god what's happening now

-Using the analogy DDM used with galaxy and Universe is terrible,because they're dreams not actual concepts in real life.Since Illumina dreamed up Maginaryworld World that is Universe in size,how come all other dreams that exist separately are not classified as? it's clear intent that each dream is it's own universe as Illumina's dream world is Maginary World which just connects all the other dreams but exist separately meaning each dream is universe in size,this is no assumption but basic scaling.

-I'm not going into dream depot stuff as it's honestly irrelevant here as they're two seperate verses

-No the downgrade are not going through until the main point is addressed which I still haven't seen a full on counter other than analogies that make no sense and weak statements about galaxies.

-The precious stone sustains the dreams,if shattered Maginary World and all other dreams would be destroyed.This supports the fact that Maginary World and alternate dreams are one in the same.
 
Don't triple post and I said in the OP not to derail the thread further and that if you're going to talk about Mario stuff, do it elsewhere such as on my wall will be fine. Anyway, the staff members who are knowledgeable on Sonic Shuffle including Everlasting and Matthew Schroeder have spoken. And despite little reason from them, the reasons were provided by Zamasu and Cal; the bottom line is just no proof of a true 2-B structure and best to stick to what we know.
 
You folks wouldn't accept universal or infinite statments anyways,just look at how you treat Nullspace.blah blah "Hyperbole",blah blah "Word Salad",blah blah "Flowery Language." Popular but unfounded words.
 
Don't want to discredit anyone but Matthew brought no points other than just insults towards Sonic fans so I'm not even sure we should consider his point.Ever is also not in this site so I think it would be wrong to count him for an on site change.

Please don't say there's no proof and not even address our reasonings which hasn't even happened yet.Im still waiting for the same argument I present which still hasn't been debunked and is skimmed past with weak counters .

Knowledgeable members who bring weak statements that have no substance or proof is not good enough to justify a change
 
I completely agree with 2-B but "aspirations" are very broad and should'nt be used in this scenario.Aspirations come down to being hypothetical.
 
I'm running on a dusty road The evil one behind me I hear his breath and turn around There's no place left to hide here

Wanna break the chains of fear There's no way back Your whisper in my ear Your touch will save me again

You'll change my dream You'll guide my way to be You are the light You turn black into white

You'll change my dream You'll bring reality You shine so bright You turn black into white

I've lost my soul in the game he plays No doubt that he won't spare me Hunting me, trapped in his chase Subject to violation

I'm afraid to fall asleep Whether day and night But once I'm there in my dreams You'll come to save me again

You'll change my dream You'll guide my way to be You are the light You turn black into white

You'll change my dream You'll bring reality You shine so bright You turn black into white

You'll change my dream You'll steer my way to be You are the light You turn black into white

You'll change my dream You'll bring reality You are the light First star I see tonight
 
If the thread is going to be too chaotic no matter how many times I've said to remain civil, then I might as well be tempted to close the thread and make a new one staff only. Note I won't go that far, but it's a possible option and would lessen the derailments and hostility.

And yes, Matt is under a lot of stress and is especially getting tired of the fans trying to push for Sonic getting as much special treatment as humanly possible. But you're forgetting the fact that he too is a Sonic fan. Everlasting being off site does not disprove that his input is still valuable and he's still extremely helpful to a lot of verses such as Final Fantasy, Star Wars, ect. Anyway, Cal looked at the cutscenes and found nothing to indicate Maginary World being a multiverse or any dreams being universes. Only that Maginary World is the Universe it all takes place in.
 
It's not necessary, making it staff only would only remove the people against the downgrade for discussing
 
@DarkDragonMedeus

If I had a choice to go back to your wall ever again or get flayed alive by the Cartel,I would choose the latter.
 
Don't worry, I said I won't go that far. And the rest of you aren't too bad, but that being said Ed is really misbehaving despite multiple warnings. Starting to wonder what I should do with him then.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
If the thread is going to be too chaotic no matter how many times I've said to remain civil, then I might as well be tempted to close the thread and make a new one staff only. Note I won't go that far, but it's a possible option and would lessen the derailments and hostility.

And yes, Matt is under a lot of stress and is especially getting tired of the fans trying to push for Sonic getting as much special treatment as humanly possible. But you're forgetting the fact that he too is a Sonic fan. Everlasting being off site does not disprove that his input is still valuable and he's still extremely helpful to a lot of verses such as Final Fantasy, Star Wars, ect. Anyway, Cal looked at the cutscenes and found nothing to indicate Maginary World being a multiverse or any dreams being universes. Only that Maginary World is the Universe it all takes place in.
Click to expand...
-Then ask for the one's being chaotic to leave unles They actually have something to say

-Matthew gave no proof evidence or input in the topic just insult.Also it's a massive assumption to assume we all want Sonic to have special treatment when I'm pushing against this downgrade as it has faulty reasons and is proven wrong.

-Yes it's important but you can't use his status as a staff member to boost your side as he's not apart of the site.Also he just callers everything flowery language and he hasn't even seen the main most recent argument that's just skimmed over

-Again the cutscenes have no relevance here please answer the main argument against the downgrade as it's still hasn't been debunked.Its getting to the point that unless you can prove that the dreams aren't universes which I have done several SEVERAL times this thread should close as it up to the support to debunk our argument which if you do I'll agree and this thread can close.

-Using Cal as an ultimate source to back up your claim isn't substantial enough.I could flip it and says Shadow who is extremely knowledgeable in Sonic Shuffle also supports my points.Again using them as your main back up isn't big enough.Also I thought we don't go by popular vote but whatever.....
 
@DDM "And yes, Matt is under a lot of stress and is especially getting tired of the fans trying to push for Sonic getting as much special treatment as humanly possible."

Huge strawman argument to make. No one here is trying to give Sonic special treatment, it's about rating things accurately.

"Anyway, Cal looked at the cutscenes and found nothing to indicate Maginary World being a multiverse or any dreams being universes. Only that Maginary World is the Universe it all takes place in."

And what's the point in repeating this? Yeah Cal made the original thread and the people against the downgrade are stating their reasons why 2-B should stay.
 
We addressed that point dozens of times; it only says Maginary World was stated to be a Universe. AKA the very same world that contains ever other Dream. If Maginary World is the one one stated to be a Universe and literally every other Dream is simply a fragment of Maginary World and all of them put together is what makes of the Maginary World. Than Maginary World is the only Universe and the rest aren't universes.

We meant Special Treatment because a Universe containing a bunch of worlds that aren't Universe sized =/= a gateway that gives birth to each and every universe rather than simply containing them. And "4th Dimension Space" is no different, it's also simply that largest portion that connects the other dreams and also is inside Maginary World.
 
Marginary World is a dream, it doesn't contain fragments of every other dream, it's not diferent from the rest
 
I never said it contains fragments of every other dream, I said it literally contains the entirety of every other dream. What I actually said is that individual dreams themselves are all fragments of the Maginary World which the Maginary World is still the only Universe.
 
technically you addressed it two times before this not a hundred OvO

also they've been shown to be somewhat pocket universes due to how they're shown to be smaller outside of them
 
They exist separately, we only see them in the 4th dimension because it's like they are being transmited from a screen
 
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